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RocketScience
09-07-2004, 02:25 PM
opinions? let the war begin

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7920246228&catego ry=33742

KSU_S13Less
09-07-2004, 02:54 PM
Repost.

RocketScience
09-07-2004, 04:03 PM
what was the name of the old post?

Nikeboy355
09-07-2004, 04:28 PM
all you have to know is that it will eventually crack because of thin material and robotic welds that don't penetrate far enough... even though they have been using thicker gauge material and have improved on their design, there are a lot of skeptics including myself... There are many other options available if you are willing to pay for them...

Jsquared
09-07-2004, 06:34 PM
Don't forget that the vast majority of people commenting on them have zero experience with them since the new stuff hasn't been on the market that long...

OHH_
09-07-2004, 07:48 PM
well i think the guy is a [censored]-i will never buy from him. I asked a simple question and he gave an [censored]-ish answer. A friend of mine did get one from SSautochrome and he (unfortunatly I have good news) has had no issues with it. I personally will pony up the cash for a good name brand (HKS, JIC, etc) just because the ssautochrome guy is an ass

RocketScience
09-07-2004, 08:26 PM
is anyone on here actually using this exact manifold or know someone who is? and what is your experience with it?

Nikeboy355
09-07-2004, 08:33 PM
PM or email me if you would a manifold that is a little more expensive but has proven itself for 20K so far on my motor... Nikeboy355@aol.com

RocketScience
09-07-2004, 10:32 PM
if one exists, i dont think it should be a PM let us all know of it, so we know what options we have?

Nikeboy355
09-07-2004, 10:42 PM
forum rules says I can't because it would make it a commercial post... hopefully a moderator will correct me if I am wrong... but the manifold that I am running on my car was made at a turbo shop(been in business for 20 years) in LA that is now putting together a T3/T4 upgrade with manifold, downpipe, turbo to MAFS pipe... I have been running his manifold for 20K now...PM me and I can give you his contact info...

Frankiefingers77
09-07-2004, 11:07 PM
well i think the guy is a [censored]-i will never buy from him. I asked a simple question and he gave an [censored]-ish answer. A friend of mine did get one from SSautochrome and he (unfortunatly I have good news) has had no issues with it. I personally will pony up the cash for a good name brand (HKS, JIC, etc) just because the ssautochrome guy is an ass



You know, I bet you most everthing you buy is made or sold by some a55hole, the only difference is you haven't talked to them.

Jsquared
09-07-2004, 11:12 PM
the JIC and HKS [censored] would be in a different language anyway http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif But seriously, with the service issues JIC has had with their coilovers, you think their customer service on the manifold will be any better?



is anyone on here actually using this exact manifold or know someone who is? and what is your experience with it?


myself, a local S14 SR, local S13 KA-T I think, a couple KA-Ts elsewhere in the state, S13 SR in S14 about an hour from me. that is all i can think of off the top of my head at the moment, I am sure there are more. These are just people that I know personally in NC, by the way. None of them have had any issues whatsoever, not since that matters much *at the moment* since the new style haven't really been in use long enough to have longevity discussions...

Society_Mike
09-07-2004, 11:13 PM
lol, this is funny, im not defending their product in anyway. However, it looks to me like most of you taling bad about it are just finding excuses as to why you don't have an ex. mani. You don't want to spend ANY money is what it sounds like.
Let's see, John-boy can buy this thing for so low of a price, and run it, probably for quite a while before it breaks (if it was bad quality) and all that time having the advantage of a tubular manifold. All the while, the skeptics are still sitting at home holding their kocks in their hands saying they rather pay more for one.
Then let's say his mani DOES actuall break. So John-boy takes it off, throws it in the garbage, and buys another one, while the skeptics are STILL at home with the crappy stock mani.
I'm not trying to make fun of anyone. It's just that this is all silly to me. Man, who cares, it's cheap, it's a car part, everything breaks, but before it does, it's a WHOLE lot of FUN! Anyway, I have HAD the more expensive brands, and have friends with some of the pricier stuff on their cars now, and it doesn't matter who makes it, they ALL break at the welds. The best one I ever owned was made by a little shop called ATS-BM down the road. Worked great, over a year and a half before the welds started cracking. SO I threw it away and bought another one. So in those years of having a cheap mani on my car doing what it does, the skeptics were sitting at home saving for their "better" one which I could by 3-4 ex. mani's for the price they pay for ONE.

RocketScience
09-07-2004, 11:30 PM
do u have any better pics of the top mount setup, including inside shots?

_Def_
09-07-2004, 11:33 PM
I have a question that I've never really seen addressed...

With all this talk of "crappy stock manifolds" - what's the actual gain with one of these tubular manifolds over the stock cast-iron manifold? The stocker, while not flowing awesome, seemed pretty decent to me through casual inspection. Sure - I could spend 2 hrs with a grinder on it and get it to flow a bit better, but I didn't see any glaring design mistakes.

So what kind of gains would one see with one of these manifolds? Is it on the order of 2-3 rwhp, or is it more like 10rwhp on a stock T25 or slightly higher flowing turbo? What about on a 300-350rwhp bottom mount turbo, huge difference?

I was thinking about putting one on my SR, but SSAutochrome pissed me off with their turbo outlet and support on it. They did refund my money in the end, so I would consider buying their manifold to use with my T25 if it provided a gain.

I will also state that I probably wouldn't run one with an upgraded expensive BB turbo. Everybody seems to agree that almost all stainless manifolds will crack at some point. Well, foreign objects hitting a turbine wheel at 150,000 RPM will definitely hurt your "efficiency." Would hate for a $175 manifold to take out a $1100 turbo.

dontmindme
09-08-2004, 12:39 AM
Would hate for a $175 manifold to take out a $1100 turbo.



i still can't figure out why someone with an $1100 turbo would even consider using a $175 manifold in the first place...and then complain about it when it breaks http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

turboka24
09-08-2004, 04:46 AM
no one likes ssautochromes manifolds but i have one on my ka24de and ive used it for awhile and still love it. my mani looks identical to the one in the pic but the chrome turned yellow quickly. i like the yellow though, looks flameburnt or something http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Society_Mike
09-08-2004, 07:12 AM
duh, it's stainless steel, it's SUPPOSED to turn colors when heated up. ANY mani does that.

As far as it cracking and taking out a turbine, thats not going to happen, so get that out of your head, I have had quite a few SS manifolds as well as everyone I know here, when they crack, all that happens is the WELDS where the runner and mani. to head meet, crack a little. Like this...
http://www.ziptied.com/imode/crack3.jpg
http://www.ziptied.com/imode/crack4.jpg

Thats all that happens. All you do is lose exhaust pressure through those cracks, which keeps the turbine from boosting. Nothing inside "falls apart" or breaks off.
It starts by one little crack in a weld, and can be heard when it happens, sounds like an exhaust leak. So thats when you simply take it off and RE-WELD it or throw it in the garbage and buy another one.
In the pics, that is an extreme case. Mine had a tiny crack in one of the welds to begin with. As you can see, that mani. doesn't have a brace from the head flange to the turbine flange so once a crack starts, it keeps going.
I knew this, yet I decided to go ahead to a race I had allready planned on going to. I raced all day, (BM Cup Battle of Drift Ebisu Circuit) non-stop except to change tires and smoke a cigarette. I raced all night too. It got worse and worse throughout the night until I coudln't even get .3 bar of boost out of it, it was N/A. So when I got home, I threw it away and bought another $200 SS mani. (this time with a brace) and called it a day.

The advantages over stock are LARGELY seen. I have never bothered with the T25, I throw it in the garbage and always used an S14/S15 turbine when I had the S13 SR. But you get a LARGE increase in response, boost, peak, midrange, and low-end power. Just about ANY tubular SS manifold is better then that stock hunk of iron. The ports are too small, and despite what people in the US may think, they STILL crack! I have seen it myself. There is alot of weight hanging on the manifold, turbine, downpipe, exhaust, and when you drift/race, it makes it that much worse. The more hangers on the exhaust, the better, as is bracing the turbine, or a flex pipe inline with the down pipe to reduce the stress from the exhaust moving around. These are ways to reduce cracking on a manifold. Power increase, I have seen dyno tests in Japanese magazines of over 20hp just from a ex. manifold.
The advantages far outweigh the slight disadvantage.

RocketScience
09-08-2004, 07:45 AM
Guys I dont mean to be rude, but I am looking for experiences with their top mount T3/T4 flanged manifold as seen on the website, the bottom mount has been covered and there is a running tread on FA. Lets address the topmount.

RDM_II
09-08-2004, 07:58 AM
no one likes ssautochromes manifolds but i have one on my ka24de and ive used it for awhile and still love it. my mani looks identical to the one in the pic but the chrome turned yellow quickly. i like the yellow though, looks flameburnt or something http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Did you honestly think it was chrome in the first place?



As far as it cracking and taking out a turbine, thats not going to happen, so get that out of your head, I have had quite a few SS manifolds as well as everyone I know here, when they crack, all that happens is the WELDS where the runner and mani. to head meet, crack a little. Like this...



Come on mang, cdn w sr20 swears the broken weld destroyed his GT turbine, on the *compresor* side. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif The weld was so bad that it actually broke off, fell down the runner, traveled backwards through the center section against the flow of air, then paused before going back into the wheel. That's a pretty amazing weld, even if it did break off. I'm still at a loss of how fragments of metal can fly around at their own will. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

Vapor
09-08-2004, 08:16 AM
As far as it cracking and taking out a turbine, thats not going to happen, so get that out of your head, I have had quite a few SS manifolds as well as everyone I know here, when they crack, all that happens is the WELDS where the runner and mani. to head meet, crack a little. Like this...



Come on mang, cdn w sr20 swears the broken weld destroyed his GT turbine, on the *compresor* side. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif The weld was so bad that it actually broke off, fell down the runner, traveled backwards through the center section against the flow of air, then paused before going back into the wheel. That's a pretty amazing weld, even if it did break off. I'm still at a loss of how fragments of metal can fly around at their own will. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif



Funny, the same thing happened to Enthalpy, but i was right there and saw it with my own two eyes. It DOES happen, it DOES destroy turbine wheels, and it CAN happen with poorly built manifolds.

cdn_w_sr20
09-08-2004, 10:24 AM
RDM you need to learn, i fixed that and said turbine, BUT both side of the wheel were Fawcked beyond belief. If you are going top mount I would call enjuku or full-race about their manifolds. Just my personal preference. I'd like to buy from a company with a good reputation.

You didn't skimp on the buying the motor so why go cheap when it comes to do the upgrades.

Speaking of scott does everyone know if he's okay from those hurricanes? been trying to get in touch on my ecu...

Kookz
09-08-2004, 10:38 AM
Scott has been out of state for the hurricanes.

And Enjuku (hotshot's) manifold cracks too...they all do.

cdn_w_sr20
09-08-2004, 10:40 AM
good to hear he is ok.

At least some companies don't tell you it won't crack!!!

Nikeboy355
09-08-2004, 10:47 AM
Scott has been out of state for the hurricanes.

And Enjuku (hotshot's) manifold cracks too...they all do.


Enjuku's manifold really sucks actually... the design of the collector is bad in how they all merge with the exhaust gases hitting against each other instead of like in the Full Race or CTC manifolds where the collector has all of the gases going in the same direction towards the turbo... Enjuku is changing the manifold though, right?

cdn_w_sr20
09-08-2004, 10:53 AM
I thought it was already changed to a newer design, hence the new turbo kit???

Enthalpy
09-08-2004, 10:58 AM
cracking manifolds dont damage turbos?

ok then why did i have to buy a $1000 CHRA for my GT30R-0014 when my Hotshot manifold cracked after 3 wks of use? maybe becasue the turbien wheel was damaged beyond all recognition? Now if it is just a crack in a weld you most likely wont suffer this damage. however if you dont notce it at first...and let it heat cycle a few times...then allow the crack to propogate though the metal away from the weld. then you run the chance of a piece of the tubing cracking off (as mine did) and goign through the turbine.

yes it is real...yes it happens.

yes i survived the hurricne...i waited it out in Vermont on vacation http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

now the Crazy Ivan is bearing down on us.... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif

cdn_w_sr20
09-08-2004, 11:07 AM
you are having horrible luck down there, just hope that next hurricane stays south as in south america!

I had a feeling i wasn't the only person to have screwd a turbo that way.

How the heck could you manage to crack a cast iron manifold? every which way i think about it well it would be damn hard, its the only reason i bought the HKS cast iron manifold while i was in japan.

How hard would it be to take a tubular manifold and then cast it to make cast iron manifolds??? or would the inside runners just be crap if that was done?

RDM_II
09-08-2004, 11:12 AM
My input on welds damaging turbos wasn't to say that it can't or won't happen. From day one, cdn w sr20 has debated that it WILL always happen on every single SSA manifold, no matter what the situation is. That has been his arguement all along. My statement was made to argue that, because there is no way to prove that at all, unless you track down every single manifold they have ever made. And even then there is still no proof, and there never will be, that it is an absolute certainty that bad welds will damage turbos.

Society_Mike
09-08-2004, 11:20 AM
damn Scott, I guess if you let the crack go, it could break a piece off, but wouldn't that be more due to "bad maintenance"? hehe
Not dogging anyone, don't get me wrong. It's just that, once you get a crack, it's pretty obvious, it's an exhaust leak, it's easy to hear, and you notice the loss in boost. It's not like the crack appears while under full boost and suddenly spreads all through the manifold and breaks off a chunk. I mean, it takes days for a crack to get large enough to be seen, then you know it's time to do something about it rather then let it keep working it's way around and do some serious damage. Your case is the first I have ever heard of turbine getting damaged like that. Then again, the Japanese are anal about maintenance on their cars and the slightest thing going wrong or bad, they replace or fix it where I am too lazy and let it slide for as long as I can.
Yes, I have personally seen cracked stock manifolds.
In one case the exhaust only had the rear hanger near the bumper, and the car was super low, he scraped all the time. All this stress on the turbine and manifold eventually caused cracks with the heat, probably from some water splashing up on it as well im sure.

cdn_w_sr20
09-08-2004, 11:24 AM
RDM my argument was that the manifolds and the companies reputation was not good. I said the manifolds would crack and could cause damage to a turbo. think about it, when the welds crack and they do where is the metal going to go? If you are lucky they won't go into the turbo such as it did to mine. it was so bad on mine that there were massive chips and the wheel had so much play that it was touching.

I'm not saying your going to destroy your turbo. but it will crack and when it does there is a chance you'll screw your turbo and end up waisting a day or so taking the manifold back off. the SSA type manifolds are not fun putting on with a bloody wrench specially the two underneath the collector. In my case i ended up waisting time and money, a lot of money. I was lucky HKS was nice and gave me a discount on a new turbo. HKS GT-RS is nice.

My big problem with stainless manifolds and i seriously mean this you never know how long they will last. i know people that have obx manifolds on their cars for 20k+ and those things are outright scary. Shelf life on these things are all over the place.

Problem with SSA is they tell you it won't crack and then when it does they won't exchange or refund you even though their auctions say, "Not happy? 100% refund". Companies should not tell things to prospective customers that aren't true. It is called false advertising.

OHH_
09-08-2004, 01:53 PM
well i think the guy is a [censored]-i will never buy from him. I asked a simple question and he gave an [censored]-ish answer. A friend of mine did get one from SSautochrome and he (unfortunatly I have good news) has had no issues with it. I personally will pony up the cash for a good name brand (HKS, JIC, etc) just because the ssautochrome guy is an ass



You know, I bet you most everthing you buy is made or sold by some a55hole, the only difference is you haven't talked to them.



your probably right...but when I have a simple question I do not expect a person to be an ass to me. all this says to me is your attitude sucks so does your product
oh well. JIC well hope i have no issues with my coilovers--I hate bad customer service. i have called JIC once and they were cool and more than willing to help me with my issue--maybe I got lucky huh.

Vapor
09-08-2004, 06:22 PM
Mike, just in Scott's defense, his car was extremely loud, with open dump WG, no sound deadening, etc, it was not readily known or easily discernable. Scott is extremely thorough and anal about his car, hence my defense. He's a role model for that sort of thing ha ha.

Also, Enjuku's turbo kit no longer uses the hotshot mani, now it uses a log style mani

surfpac
09-08-2004, 09:44 PM
Who makes a top mount cast equal length manifold? or almost equal length?

Jsquared
09-10-2004, 10:39 PM
but it will crack and when it does there is a chance you'll screw your turbo and end up waisting a day or so taking the manifold back off. the SSA type manifolds are not fun putting on with a bloody wrench specially the two underneath the collector. In my case i ended up waisting time and money, a lot of money. I was lucky HKS was nice and gave me a discount on a new turbo. HKS GT-RS is nice.


A) it's your own fault for ignoring the crack long enough for it to get bad enough to break pieces off
B) who are you going to complain to when your fancypants HKS tubular manifold eventually cracks?
C) you still never admitted whether or not you ever used all the exhaust hangars or the bracket by the transmission mount
D) I know probably 10 people PERSONALLY that are using and have used the SSA current-design manifolds and haven't had issues. If one of them cracks after two years I don't consider that a "bad manifold" especially since people have seen other more-expensive manifolds do the same

cdn_w_sr20
09-10-2004, 11:00 PM
I was using 5 zigen rock exhaust (light as hell) with nismo exhaust hangers and yes the downpipe was properly bolted to the transmission mounts. Fancy hks manifold? perhaps you should open your eyes, the manifold I have from HKS is CAST IRON. shame they stopped making them.

maybe you didn't get the hint from the previous post i said. It is one thing for a company to sell garbage but when they tell customers they'll provide refunds and even state to you it won't crack is what bothers me. I dont think many people enjoy being lied to.

Sil80
09-11-2004, 10:23 PM
Is there no reasoning as to the fact that crappy welds and stainless steel are prone to cracking???

I say if that SSA mani is what you want because it's cheaper than buy it.. If not save your money for a sure shot product which the SSA manifold mimics.
My .02 http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

RDM_II
09-12-2004, 12:03 AM
I dont think many people enjoy being lied to.



Hm, interesting, and yet you swear on your life that an SSA will crack within 6 months of ownership. And those that don't? Seems like you're preaching your own hypocrisy.

When I get mine in a few weeks I'll make sure to take pics. And exactly 6 months from time of installation I plan to remove it and take more pics. If it's not cracked, I look forward to you eating every word you have ever spewed since you've dug yourself into such a hole with this.

Kim_Jong_Il
09-12-2004, 12:05 AM
There is always going to be an excuse. Probably something like you never drive your car hard enough to damage it, etc..

Yeah we all know R never drives his car hard. Too busy pulling it out of things. Damn.

Jsquared
09-12-2004, 11:18 PM
I say if that SSA mani is what you want because it's cheaper than buy it.. If not save your money for a sure shot product which the SSA manifold mimics.
My .02


are you ignorant or stupid? We've had more than one person in more than one thread demonstrate that bigger-name bigger-cost stainless tubular manifolds crack as well.

GraySilvia
09-12-2004, 11:29 PM
I say if that SSA mani is what you want because it's cheaper than buy it.. If not save your money for a sure shot product which the SSA manifold mimics.
My .02


are you ignorant or stupid? We've had more than one person in more than one thread demonstrate that bigger-name bigger-cost stainless tubular manifolds crack as well.



I had a JIC manifold crack almost beyond recognition. Then the SS autochrome manifold I replaced it with lasted longer. Go fu#@ing figure? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Irie_eyes
09-13-2004, 04:26 AM
Dumb question but why don't some turbo manifolds have another piece of metal to alleviate the load the turbo is putting on the manifold?
What I mean is like "triangulating" like a piece of metal from the turbo flange to the head flange. Something else to help carry the turbo load.
I figure the weight would cause stress where the head flange and manifold tubing welds are, specifically the top, plus the engine torquing.
Are the tubings just butt up against the flange and then welded there? I would think that you would make a flange where the holes are the size of the outer diameter so that the tubing fits in the flange and not on the flange. I've seen some headers designed this way. Some are slightly extented past the flange so it act like a gasket plus both sides can be welded.

If anyone is interested Burns Stainless (http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechArticles/Stainless_article/stainless_article.html) has a good tech description.



304 tube is the most cost-effective grade of nonmagnetic stainless steel for general applications, but some professional racing teams use the higher heat-resistant properties of aircraft grade 321 stainless steel.

Sil80
09-13-2004, 08:10 AM
[/QUOTE]
are you ignorant or stupid? We've had more than one person in more than one thread demonstrate that bigger-name bigger-cost stainless tubular manifolds crack as well.

[/QUOTE]

You missed the first part of my post where I indicated that stainless steel is prone to cracking... I do realize that even the big name manifolds are prone to cracking though I have read more threads on more forums regarding the SSA manifold as being cheap to buy and prone to cracking..
Now what I just stated is a fact and if you cant bring yourself to see this I highly suggest you look beyond the FA spectrum on this matter. True these manifolds are cheap to replace if broken, however that is not really something you want to expect when buying anything. Secondly now emphasizing on the cheap factor, yes it's good to get something for less however when the cost of something reflects the quality of craftsmanship it is no longer a good buy, rather a buy at your own risk product. Which is what SSA manifolds have become..
Why are you defending this matter so strongly anyway?

Jsquared
09-13-2004, 04:04 PM
Dumb question but why don't some turbo manifolds have another piece of metal to alleviate the load the turbo is putting on the manifold?
What I mean is like "triangulating" like a piece of metal from the turbo flange to the head flange. Something else to help carry the turbo load.
I figure the weight would cause stress where the head flange and manifold tubing welds are, specifically the top, plus the engine torquing.


I thought this as well, yet some people have brought up the point that even a stainless brace of the same material will not heat up and cool down at the same rate as a tube heated by exhaust... so it could potentially cause even more stresses depending on conditions.



I do realize that even the big name manifolds are prone to cracking though I have read more threads on more forums regarding the SSA manifold as being cheap to buy and prone to cracking..


BECAUSE THEY ARE REFERRING TO AN OLD DESIGN MADE IN A DIFFERENT FACILITY THAN THE NEW DESIGN. And most people seem incapable of understanding that.



yes it's good to get something for less however when the cost of something reflects the quality of craftsmanship it is no longer a good buy, rather a buy at your own risk product.


the new design is not cheaper because it is lower quality, but because they operate at MUCH higher volumes than most other companies. Economy of scale...



Why are you defending this matter so strongly anyway?


because I thought the same way about the old OBX-style manifolds (which were pretty lousy) but after seeing some of the new ones and how they've held up so far on peoples' cars, I've seen how much better they have gotten. All the threads you have ever seen on FA about an SSA manifold cracking are NOT the current-design manifolds.