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View Full Version : supercharged ford 302 into s13 ?



farmstar
09-13-2004, 04:36 PM
like the tilte says im thinkin of doin a 302 swap into my car , has this been done ?,is it worth it ?

input would be appreciated

thanks
bryan

'97 S14 SE Turbo
09-13-2004, 04:41 PM
Well, it's only limited by your budget, and fabrication skill.

gatecrasher
09-13-2004, 05:37 PM
As far as i know its never been done w/ a SBF. Whether or not its worth it all depends on what you wanna do and how much youd like to spend.

If you have intentions of leaving stock heads/cam/intake etc, it'd be pointless.

orion
09-13-2004, 07:27 PM
There's a redneck in Gainesville that apparently had an old S13 chassis and a wrecked 5.0 'Stang...and he did the obvious...5.0 into the S13.

It was a stock-ish motor with a stock chassis S13...and he was running in the 13s...I had a friend call me to ask about the car, but I couldn't get tot he track before he left.

I hear it works out well b/c the 5.0 has a front sump oil pan, like a KA...so fitment in that respect is good.

It'd be a good swap IMO...

Let us now what happens - Brian

farmstar
09-13-2004, 09:39 PM
im thinkin it will go smoothly , ive been in contact with a guy who builds mustang motors and hes all excited about it, im hopin ill be puttin down about 375-400hp when everything is siad and done , I will be documenting this and takin lots of pics

bryan

FUtec2k
09-13-2004, 10:42 PM
There are a couple guys here in Tulsa with Chevy 350s in S13s. Not exactly a Ford 302, but still a V8. They said all you need to do (besides wiring and all the obvious) is make custom motor/transmission mounts, bang out the transmission tunnel, and make a custom driveshaft. Beefed up axles and gears would probably be good, but they aren't required.

Jsquared
09-13-2004, 10:58 PM
GHEY.

then again I don't like drag racing and like my cars balanced...

Sil80
09-13-2004, 11:14 PM
I know that there was three members on the 240sx mailing list back in the late 90's with V8's in their 240's.. Never knew them, however it has been done. Don't think any of them were supercharged though.

JimStinksAtDorifto
09-13-2004, 11:16 PM
I forget his name on here, but the owner of lime creek motorsports has an LT1 in his s14, iirc. 12.9 on street tires with headers, i believe.

orion
09-14-2004, 08:18 AM
like my cars balanced...



The balance would not be as bad as one would think...we went over this a couple years ago:

Click Me! (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=335602&page=&v iew=&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1)

Read every reply...it's a good thread, and all these issues are hit.

- Brian

Jsquared
09-16-2004, 12:54 AM
um, my old roommate owned three different Fox-bodies during the two years we lived together (sold grey fastback, got a 5.0 coupe and a 4-banger coupe that he dropped a 5.0 into at the same time I was doing my SR swap... that was an interesting time, haha. 302 on the stand, s13 with half-done SR swap, 302's automatic on the porch next to my old KA... lol). Those 302s are heavy as hell, even with the aluminum heads. Then again, I have an SR in my car and it effectively is less of a load on the nose of the car than a KA http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif We had a 302 and an SR on the same hoist during the same week, trust me there is more difference between them than asad's googled measurements suggest.

moocow
09-16-2004, 09:45 AM
I saw a video of a 302 in an S13 a while back.. I'll see if I can't find it when I get back from class. Unfortunately I could not get any detailed information about the swap but it does show that it can be done and it's pretty fast. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

jielwh0
09-19-2004, 11:11 PM
i dunno i would like to do a new chevy vette motor swap if someone had done an lt-1 already...400 stock horses....3000 pound car?....sign me up! i want a v-8 s13 wish i had the space to do it http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FUtec2k
09-21-2004, 07:37 AM
I'm about to start my own V8 swap project. My 240, though, is mainly going to be a track-only car, with limited street use. I'll be swapping in a carbed 350 with a TH700-R4 AOD tranny. Later on I may invest in a sc'd 383 making about 650hp, so I may shove a friend's Ford 9" up the rear. Going to have a full cage custom-fit for my 240.

Kingtal0n
09-29-2004, 11:57 PM
I wonder why it is that people think about putting a 400-500 Horsepower V8 into their 240 with all of this fabrication,

when for less cash and less fabrication (almost none anymore) you can install a "figurativelly lighter" and more "interesting and appealing" RB25DET and make the same power, without even opening the motor. Want 800 Useable horsepower? grab an RB25DET and do some searching. Its been done, and cheaper than you would think apparently.

Now dont get me wrong, I own a twin turbo camaro. Nothing like that feel, but the 240 was built around a light, high revvining motor, like the SR. people complain the RB hurts handling, imagine a small block!

pSY trek
09-30-2004, 04:04 AM
A high reving(built up of course) Ford 302 is more interesting to me. Plus it's smog legal and it sounds great.

-Stanley

Jsquared
10-07-2004, 03:28 PM
as long as you don't care about chassis balance, sure...

Nikeboy355
10-07-2004, 04:31 PM
A high reving(built up of course) Ford 302 is more interesting to me. Plus it's smog legal and it sounds great.



You really need to see what the RB motors are all about... getting 400-500 WHP is really not that difficult at all and can easily be done on a stock block... check out SP Engineering's 710WHP stock block Skyline (http://www.sp-power.com/projectcar_SKYLINE%20GTR.htm)...

Don't knock the RB if you don't know what it is all about... This motor along with the 2JZ-GTE(from the Toyota Supra turbo) are the HP leaders in Japan with companies cranking out over 1000WHP out of them... But if you want to build some kind of IROC 240SX, go ahead... the technology of engine management and turbo will spank that 30 year old technology any day...

BlackBomber
10-07-2004, 05:17 PM
the technology of engine management and turbo will spank that 30 year old technology any day...



actually nike, i wouldn't consider a boosted 302 30 year old technology. he will still be using electronic fuel management and a programmable ignition. boosted 2.5 and 3.0 liters are great and streetable but a boosted 5.0+ liter will always be faster, especially if you are dropping them in the same host chassis. Boosted vs Boosted, the old adage of "There is no replacement for displacement" still holds true. now if you have a boosted 2.5 liter vs a n/a 5.0 liter i'll take the boosted car all day long. but we are talking about a supercharged (boosted) v8. its easy to get 1500whp out of a boosted v8... expensive, yes but its just as expensive to build a 1000+ hp 6 cylinder. This is why NHRA's fastest drag cars are all V8s. Plus, I didn't see where he "Knocked" an RB. Just stated to him that it was more interesting.

yes, no?

asad
10-07-2004, 05:40 PM
You really need to see what the RB motors are all about...



You missed the part where he said "smog legal" -- an RB will never be smog legal in CA, a Ford V8 can be if done properly.

Also, just a semantic question -- isn't it typical to call EFI 302's "5.0's", and leave the term "302" to refer to the carbed version?

Asad

Nikeboy355
10-07-2004, 05:49 PM
yeah, I agree but most of us are not shooting for 1500 horsepower... if he is then I am wrong but if his goals are 400-800 HP, the RB will do it without taking the oil pan off... I actually started on cars with a 1990 Mustang GT 5.0 and there was nothing "interesting" about it, lots of noise and once it gets higher in the RPM band the power tapers off... I am sure that can be corrected with the correct setup but it's just too easy to slap on a large turbo with large injectors and then do some serious tuning... Maybe I am just partial to the RB...

BlackBomber
10-07-2004, 06:17 PM
This motor along with the 2JZ-GTE(from the Toyota Supra turbo) are the HP leaders in Japan with companies cranking out over 1000WHP out of them...



Nike, I agree with you... the rb is obviously much more interesting to me as well. The only reason I said 1500hp was cause you mentioned 1000whp cars in japan. dollar for dollar the money you spend on making a solid built 1000hp 6 cylinder will be similar to what you would spend for a 1500hp v8. actually may even be a little more expensive since v8 parts are way more readily available.

i would also mention that 800whp on a stock block rb or any engine for that matter would be way beyond the limits of high reliability, even with an excellent tune. cars just lose a lot of reliability at the 600-800 hp range period. I mean how many cars do you know that have lasted a long time at that power level when they have been flogged. the fastest single turbo, rb powered car that i know of right now in the u.s.a is right here in tallahassee with none other than shaun torrente's IGOR creation. 586whp and a recorded 1/4 of 11.17 missing gears. which would've been faster if the turbo was sized more better for the application. car was lagging between shifts pretty bad which tells you it was droppign out of the power band and definitely had some low - mid 10s in it. it has a bonestock block and head but other failures like a turbo failure has been plagueing that car.

gatecrasher
10-07-2004, 07:47 PM
Also, just a semantic question -- isn't it typical to call EFI 302's "5.0's", and leave the term "302" to refer to the carbed version?

Asad




Not really.

cullen
11-12-2004, 05:19 AM
A high reving(built up of course) Ford 302 is more interesting to me. Plus it's smog legal and it sounds great.

-Stanley



sorry, it wont be smog legal anyways. the engine must be from the same manufacturer of the car. at least in CA.

knate
11-12-2004, 07:10 AM
as long as you don't care about chassis balance, sure...



My friend put an LT1 into a Porsche 924, weight distribution after swap was 51/49. Our cars aren't even that balanced. He did do some lightening up front and battery is in the back. As long as the motor is set back far enough, the weight is close enough to the center of the car that it doesn't change the balance that much. And the total weight was only 2630lbs.

asad
11-12-2004, 09:15 AM
sorry, it wont be smog legal anyways. the engine must be from the same manufacturer of the car. at least in CA.



Jesus, how many times do I have to correct people on this??

The engine DOES NOT have to be from the same manufacturer of the car!

Go to the CARB webpage and look up the Engine Change Guidelines. NOWHERE does it say that the engine has to be from the same manufacturer as the car.

the 3 requirements are:

1) engine must be same model year or newer than the chassis
2) all engine smog equipment and all chassis smog equipment must be intact and functioning
3) engine must be from same class of vehicle (no 'light truck' engine into a 'passenger car', for example).

That's IT.

Asad

Gladius
11-12-2004, 04:04 PM
Today, I was actually day-dreaming and thought about sticking the new Titan/Armada 5.6 liter motor in a 240. Give them LS1 boys a taste of their own medicine. I have no idea of what problems would be encountered. Sigh. Dreams....

Jsquared
11-12-2004, 06:27 PM
Don't think about going for 500 or more HP on a stock 302 block either. I'm not talking about "bottom end," I mean the actual block casting...

gatecrasher
11-12-2004, 07:26 PM
Don't think about going for 500 or more HP on a stock 302 block either. I'm not talking about "bottom end," I mean the actual block casting...




not necessarily true. Ive seen plenty of stock ford castings last in the 500+rwhp range for long periods of time. There were several different NON- ford racing ( R block etc) castings used. some stronger than others. Example: the "mexican" blocks.

Anyway, if you were building a serious engine, one that you planned to bore out an decent amount, or turn any significant RPM, it would make sense to spend the money on an A4, R block, Dart etc.

Power isnt necessarily the killer. alot of the stock block failures are related to people boring them out enough for 347's.......couple that with the increased side loads on the block from said stroker.........and THEN try and turn it 6300+rpm.........CRACK

Jsquared
11-12-2004, 09:54 PM
My Ford info comes from a guy that has been working on them for YEARS (had a 14.1-second full-weight Lincoln MarkVII with few mods at one point, now has a nice '02-or-so Crown Vic with a few enhancements http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). Even without overboring and such, the regular blocks tend to crack when making that kind of power (cracking down the center where the mains are).

Hugh
11-12-2004, 10:30 PM
Do CARB exemptions apply to an engine, or a particular engine in a particular chassis?

I ask because if you were to put a CARB exempt suprcharger kit on a 5.0 in an S13, would it still be CARB exempt?

I wouldn't even consider this swap if the engine were left stock. That would be a serious waste. Stock 5.0 power output is not that impressive. Now a modified 5.0, thats a different story.

gatecrasher
11-12-2004, 11:28 PM
My Ford info comes from a guy that has been working on them for YEARS (had a 14.1-second full-weight Lincoln MarkVII with few mods at one point, now has a nice '02-or-so Crown Vic with a few enhancements http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). Even without overboring and such, the regular blocks tend to crack when making that kind of power (cracking down the center where the mains are).




my ford info comes from several years of seeing nothing but supercharged mustangs on the dyno, and burning nothing but chips for mustangs, working at a shop with a low 8 second naturally aspirated mustang........list goes on.

as far as splitting goes, it happens in the lifter valley. And i never said the blocks dont split. i was just trying to clarify WHY it happens. Saying "it breaks at 450rwhp" is no different than all the retards screaming " You have to build your SR at 375rwhp" a few years ago.



I still remember asking......years ago, before i even started my 240 project, what exactly failed in an SR at ~375hp etc. I got flak from a bunch of idiots, because noone knew. It was just accepted as the word, because someone had gotten one to around that power, and blew it up.

gatecrasher
11-12-2004, 11:31 PM
Do CARB exemptions apply to an engine, or a particular engine in a particular chassis?

I ask because if you were to put a CARB exempt suprcharger kit on a 5.0 in an S13, would it still be CARB exempt?

I wouldn't even consider this swap if the engine were left stock. That would be a serious waste. Stock 5.0 power output is not that impressive. Now a modified 5.0, thats a different story.




it would be legal.

asad
11-12-2004, 11:32 PM
I ask because if you were to put a CARB exempt suprcharger kit on a 5.0 in an S13, would it still be CARB exempt?



Yes, it would be. Look, for example, at the Honda world where if you swap a B18 into your Civic, and use CARB-approved B18 parts (like intake, header, etc) then it's still legal.




I wouldn't even consider this swap if the engine were left stock. That would be a serious waste. Stock 5.0 power output is not that impressive. Now a modified 5.0, thats a different story.



Word.

Asad

Jsquared
11-13-2004, 09:55 AM
my ford info comes from several years of seeing nothing but supercharged mustangs on the dyno, and burning nothing but chips for mustangs, working at a shop with a low 8 second naturally aspirated mustang........list goes on.

as far as splitting goes, it happens in the lifter valley. And i never said the blocks dont split. i was just trying to clarify WHY it happens. Saying "it breaks at 450rwhp" is no different than all the retards screaming " You have to build your SR at 375rwhp" a few years ago.



I still remember asking......years ago, before i even started my 240 project, what exactly failed in an SR at ~375hp etc. I got flak from a bunch of idiots, because noone knew. It was just accepted as the word, because someone had gotten one to around that power, and blew it up.




well then, I stand corrected http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif