PDA

View Full Version : Yet another standalone option...



Kim_Jong_Il
10-21-2004, 05:20 PM
Popular among FSAE people, highly recommended by some respected faculty. We'll be getting ours in a week or so to try on our CBR600 f4i motor.

Performance electronics, seems very simple, just how I like it.

http://www.pe-ltd.com/

Any opinions...?

shane_B
10-21-2004, 10:03 PM
Or This???? (sorry for the hijack...it seemed pertinent to the title of the thread. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Holley EMS (http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/C950/C950MPFI/C950EMSK.html)
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/C950/fFuelMap.jpg
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/C950/fFuelGrph.jpg
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/C950/FuelInj_pics/f534-120.jpg

shane_B
10-21-2004, 10:10 PM
The software for the Performance Electronics seems nice. I havent heard anthing about it personally. I havent really heard much about the Holley either. A friend of mine mentioned it.

Kim_Jong_Il
10-21-2004, 10:14 PM
It's fine, I'd like to see more of what is out there. The more the better.

sspikey
10-21-2004, 10:26 PM
Megasquirt and Megajolt are two Home made Cheap amazing working systems
Us datsun guys use em alot when going EFI

Enthalpy
10-22-2004, 06:18 AM
niether of those systems will work with the factory CAS. so you have to make brackets and bull**** like that to mount a crank angle sensor. Commander 950 is garbage. it's is so over simplified that the car runs liek [censored]. a local guy tried on out on his SR and could barely get the car to idle. ou can only plug in integers for the fuel value so his choice was fuel value 2 which = 10.5:1 rich at idle. or fuel value 1 = injectors didnt open and car would stall.

with cheap enginemangement systems you get cheap results. you want a car that runs and drives normal? get a real standalone system...

Kim_Jong_Il
10-22-2004, 06:18 AM
Believe me I've looked at the MS systems a lot. I'm waiting for the MS II revision to come out, or the UMS. What do you guys use for the ignition signal on the Megajolt? EDIS or is there something already on the engine?

Kim_Jong_Il
10-22-2004, 06:39 AM
the PE stuff can handle decimal values. If we have good success with it on the fsae car I may be more inclined to try it. I'll have to see how it goes.

shane_B
10-22-2004, 05:38 PM
Yeah, ditching the 950 idea. Lets see what the PE does.

Kim_Jong_Il
10-22-2004, 05:44 PM
There is also the suite of MS stuff, waiting to see what the UMS is going to be like. How much do TEC-II's go for, they could be another option. Does Enthalpy do S14 KA ecu's?

PEBrian
10-22-2004, 10:38 PM
Hi Everyone,

My name is Brian Lewis and I am a partner at Performance Electronics, Ltd. (PE). We make one of the engine control systems that you are talking about. We are in the process of developing a new system and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on what functions were important to the Nissan guys. Please keep in mind we are trying to maximize the number of available features and still keep the price low enough so you don't have to sell a car to get one. Also, are most of you guys running 4 or 6 cylinders. Thanks in advance for the info.

moocow
10-22-2004, 10:53 PM
Does Enthalpy do S14 KA ecu's?


No, I don't believe so. Someone else mentioned that in another thread. Correct me if I'm wrong though. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

shane_B
10-22-2004, 11:31 PM
Hi Everyone,

My name is Brian Lewis and I am a partner at Performance Electronics, Ltd. (PE). We make one of the engine control systems that you are talking about. We are in the process of developing a new system and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on what functions were important to the Nissan guys. Please keep in mind we are trying to maximize the number of available features and still keep the price low enough so you don't have to sell a car to get one. Also, are most of you guys running 4 or 6 cylinders. Thanks in advance for the info.


Im no tuning expert but pretty much want what every tuner wants. Plenty of options to plug in extra sensors, injectors, and importantly WB02 sensor. Dataloging of course so we can tune off the dyno. Something that will work with the S14 motor. We are using 4 cylinder motors.

Kim_Jong_Il
10-23-2004, 03:21 AM
It would be nice if you could make a system to work of the OE nissan CAS so we wouldn't have to worry about a trigger wheel and pickup fabrication. Wideband 02 support would be nice, most here use them for tuning. Datalogging is always helpful.

Can any of the outputs be setup to control boost? Another good feature. Most people are running 4, some 6, cylinders.

PEBrian
10-24-2004, 11:04 AM
What is the configuration of the Nissan CAS? If there is enough interest we will build it in.

I agree features like wide band O2 support is great, but puts our basic system out of our price point. We are trying to sell for under $1000 so more people can afford a stand-alone system. Is wide band O2 worth an additional $400-$500? Also, we are considering offering a wide band module that would be seperate from the system but would work with the system. That way we can keep the price of our basic system low. What do you guys think?

Kim_Jong_Il
10-24-2004, 11:14 AM
Can the analog inputs on the PE support an output from a separate WBO2 controller? Like the Inovate LM-1.

I think the Nissan CAS is fairly standard across most of 90's cars. Here is a snippet from the KA24 service manual about it:

http://home.comcast.net/~tweak180sx/CAS.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~tweak180sx/CAS2.JPG

Kingtal0n
10-24-2004, 11:17 AM
Enthalpy that is not true, the C950 will accept decimals such as 1.2, 1.5, 2.2, etc.. I am currently running one with GREAT success on my twin turbo camaro (http://www.geocities.com/kingtaling) I already asked Doug Flynn at Holley if there was any way to incorp. the CAS from the SR into their software, I opted to do some testing when I got my S13 Blacktop next month, and Doug supplied me with the RS232 protocol for the Commander 950 So that I could play with the inputs/outputs. Ive already designed an auto-tuner program for the commander 950 that tunes the ECU while you DRIVE you car around town, so it would be great If i could get it to work with the SR through the CAS like a proper Standalone should do. How does the CAS stream information, via voltage i presume, is it 1-wire? thats the real question, I dont have the SR yet so I cannot do any testing.

stealthx32
10-24-2004, 01:06 PM
Maybe just an aux input to specify as a WB would be nice. Specify a voltage range and an input value range (or a table if it isn't linear). That should be able to support most WB outputs. There's no need to build it in IMHO, especially with the handful of WB options that exist nowadays.

quest
10-24-2004, 03:28 PM
Aren't TECs 'real standalones'... and u still have to deal with trigger wheel/ pickup fabricating ?

commander 950 is garbage ?
good, then u can tell this guy how he can't get his car to run right, how its gonna stall, never idle and he's not making any "real" power.

http://www.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=033148;p=1

This guy is SMART. Didn't spend alot of money nowhere. No experience with tuning, asked the 'right' people the right questions and took a stab at it. Did it work ?
10.88 in a daily driven 2750+ pound car, built on a budget is rockin'!
Cheap results, my arse. U DON"T have to spend alot of money to go fast

shane_B
10-24-2004, 11:29 PM
Enthalpy that is not true, the C950 will accept decimals such as 1.2, 1.5, 2.2, etc.. I am currently running one with GREAT success on my twin turbo camaro.


I asked my buddy about the no decimal place thing and he beleived it to be false too. I guess the new one you can tune up to three decimal places. So I guess the 950 option is still on the table.

As for the PE ecu, I dont think WB 02 needs to be integrated in but having the ability to hook up an external unit is a must. I really want to street tune. yeah, the CAS is a good idea too. Can we make it work with the variable valve timing?

Kim_Jong_Il
10-28-2004, 07:44 AM
Found this company too, looks interesting. I was reading through a gti-r article on some australian site and they mentioned it.

www.perfectpower.com (http://www.perfectpower.com)

Check out their standalone (PSR4) and their piggy-back system (SMT6). Both look very interesting. Piggy-back goes for about 460 for the turbo kit (has a map sensor as opposed to the other versions).

Hmm... lots of options, almost too many. At least it is nice to have a decent selection.

stealthx32
10-28-2004, 09:35 AM
Can there ever be too many? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif I think the major kicker will be if PE can integrate the stock CAS and other sensors, at a price significantly below AEM's. Although its certainly hard to compete with the amount of research they've done for our application alone (covering all SR and KA years has SIX different ECUs). http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Kim_Jong_Il
10-28-2004, 12:00 PM
But in all fairness, I din't really care about the compatibility with a CAS. Mounting a trigger wheel wouldn't be that horrible. I'm with a ka anyway.

shane_B
10-28-2004, 03:36 PM
I would like to keep the NVS and use the CAS if possible. But hell, if it works it work right? If its domestic...its cheaper.

Hugh
10-28-2004, 04:08 PM
Nice thing about the trigger wheel issue is once its mounted... you will never have another problem with it. Dead-on accuracy with no chance of adjustment or failure (unless your sensor contacts the wheel... then you just get a new sensor and don't do that again)

How many people with CAS you seen with f'ed up timing? I see it all the time. I'm not saying CAS is bad, I'm saying that people screw them up a lot because they don't follow the FSM on setting it. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you're already doing a complete harness and hardware and ignition swap, whats just adding a trigger wheel? No big deal...

mattmartindrift
10-28-2004, 04:58 PM
Nice thing about the trigger wheel issue is once its mounted... you will never have another problem with it. Dead-on accuracy with no chance of adjustment or failure (unless your sensor contacts the wheel... then you just get a new sensor and don't do that again)

How many people with CAS you seen with f'ed up timing? I see it all the time. I'm not saying CAS is bad, I'm saying that people screw them up a lot because they don't follow the FSM on setting it. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you're already doing a complete harness and hardware and ignition swap, whats just adding a trigger wheel? No big deal...



haha, or if you weld your wheel a bit crooked(ooops) and it flys off @ 4000rpms, and hits your mag sensor, then the ground....then you pick it up and weld it back on.....


and all works great!!!! sensor is even still goood, although I did have to knock a chunk of trigger wheel tooth off the sensor.

shane_B
10-29-2004, 05:56 PM
Nice thing about the trigger wheel issue is once its mounted... you will never have another problem with it. Dead-on accuracy with no chance of adjustment or failure (unless your sensor contacts the wheel... then you just get a new sensor and don't do that again)

How many people with CAS you seen with f'ed up timing? I see it all the time. I'm not saying CAS is bad, I'm saying that people screw them up a lot because they don't follow the FSM on setting it.

If you're already doing a complete harness and hardware and ignition swap, whats just adding a trigger wheel? No big deal...



Good point

cortina
10-29-2004, 06:11 PM
there are many options for ppl wanting to put aftermarket ECUs into there cars
autronic, motec, haltec, microtech, wolf just to name a few
im sure you will see many options at SEMA
i use www.autronic.com (http://www.autronic.com)

shane_B
10-29-2004, 10:26 PM
Seems like Autotronic is nice. but expensive.

asad
10-30-2004, 09:17 AM
Seems like Autotronic is nice. but expensive.



Autronic, not Autotronic.

Asad

jickel240
10-30-2004, 02:03 PM
Nice thing about the trigger wheel issue is once its mounted... you will never have another problem with it. Dead-on accuracy with no chance of adjustment or failure (unless your sensor contacts the wheel... then you just get a new sensor and don't do that again)

How many people with CAS you seen with f'ed up timing? I see it all the time. I'm not saying CAS is bad, I'm saying that people screw them up a lot because they don't follow the FSM on setting it. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you're already doing a complete harness and hardware and ignition swap, whats just adding a trigger wheel? No big deal...




Yeah I wish the SDS came with a trigger wheel.Instead, you have to glue magnets into the pulley, and mount a hall sensor between the pulley and the block....


...Which is gay.

Kingtal0n
10-31-2004, 08:32 AM
What I liked about the Holley C950 was the "pro" version accepts input from a WIDEBAND controller, so all you have to do is buy one of those standalone WB box's (like the techedge, innovative, even DIY-WB) and plug that into the commander, and BAM FULL CLOSED LOOP Wideband operation, EVEN during Wide Open Throttle, you can have the computer adjust your A/F ratio to where you want it. Can we say, no more dyno tuning? Its the most amazing thing since sliced bread, IMO.

shane_B
10-31-2004, 05:19 PM
Autronic, not Autotronic.


Thankyou, -2 spelling.

shane_B
12-21-2004, 02:49 AM
I just wanted to give this thread a bump too. It gets old hearing from DSM, GM, and Ford guys that "your nissan sucks in the tuning dept." Im wondering whats new and to stimulate discussion.

Kim_Jong_Il
12-21-2004, 08:02 AM
Well we've bought the PE system for the fsae car. But our engines team seems to have disbanded for some damn retarded reason. If I have time I may try to take over the task.

Kingtal0n
01-21-2005, 02:22 PM
bump. I have a power FC now. Using the commander 950 on anything less than a 450bhp SR20 would be a waste of time, now that I see what a power FC can do.

only reason to switch would be wideband operation, and MAP based operation.