PDA

View Full Version : Importing Silvia's



Jhapa
12-18-2001, 06:00 PM
for those who have imported silvia's, how difficult was it and which company to import with. all i have been getting is sorry, don't like to export to US. any help would be appreciated.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-19-2001, 07:59 PM
how much are you willing to spend to get an actual Silvia imported? S13,S14, S15?
I might be able to help you out.

Jhapa
12-26-2001, 01:06 PM
s13's. maybe s14.

Jhapa
12-26-2001, 01:08 PM
how about a sil-80.

Papa Lazarou
12-26-2001, 07:54 PM
I imported one, but not to the US so I have no real knowledge of that side of it. As I understand it to get an imported car road legal for the US is very difficult and expensive, but others would know about that.

Good luck finding a decent Sil-80 though. I don't beleive looked after Nissan originals are available. If you were to find one at auction which had proof it was made that way by Nissan, I guess you'd be looking at silly money. What you will find is modified 180SX's with the Silvia front end. Accident damaged Silvia or 180's are common, and are frequently sold. You have to wonder how many are shipped abroad to have bodged repairs done, then sold on at a fat profit..

Personally I would go for a clean, 96+ 180SX Type X if I was buying again. If you do go ahead only get a grade 4 or above car, and insist on getting all do***entation including the auction grading sheet. Oh, and the colour can affect the price of the car. You may get a better deal on a less popular colour (white ones sell for the most for some reason). http://www.freshalloy.com/

Papa Lazarou
12-26-2001, 08:10 PM
Prices, from memory, early cars e.g a '91 Silvia were not much. Maybe 3-400,000 JPY for a nice low milage K's. Less for a higher miler (average milage is considered to be about 10k km's a year, I think). You could probably pick up a reasonable but old S13 for just 100,000 JPY. Earlier S14's would sell for about 5-600,000. Late S14's would go up to just over a million for the latest and best.

But like I said this is from memory from earlier this year and may be out of date now or innacurate. Just meant to give you a rough idea http://www.freshalloy.com/ A magazine called Car Sensor (or similar) is published over there which would give more accurate pricing if you could get hold of a copy.

G_Blade
01-10-2002, 02:29 PM
Is it even possible to get an S13 road legal in the states? I know the S15 is totally out, with the chassis having not been sold here, but what about, say, a 180SX?

Mav1178
01-10-2002, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G_Blade:
Is it even possible to get an S13 road legal in the states? I know the S15 is totally out, with the chassis having not been sold here, but what about, say, a 180SX?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, and I will have proof later in the week.

FYI, a JDM S13 is NOT the same chassis as a USDM S13. I know it sounds very weird, but I will have CONVINCING PROOF by this weekend, proving that the JDM chassis is much weaker than the USDM chassis.

-alex

**DONOTDELETE**
01-10-2002, 09:35 PM
u can maybe register one as track only and get some junky 240 here and swaping watever many parts you want into the 240..

SR20VET
01-10-2002, 10:29 PM
The USDM had a BETTER chasis!?! That doesn't sound right considering that the JDM car had much more power.

I would definetly like to see what you come up with though. Should be interesting.

BTW how exactly is the chassis different? I know that between the S13 and the RPS13 the hatch makes a big difference, but is the car any different underneath? Are the exhaust paths, fuel,and brake line paths, suspension geometry, etc. the same?

I've been wondering this for a while and have yet to get any REAL answers.

BioSehnsucht
01-10-2002, 10:32 PM
If nothing else, the 5mph bumper reinforcement.

Shin
01-10-2002, 11:31 PM
I could've sworn I posted in this thread earlier today and I think someone deleted it but here goes again....

JDM and USDM chassis are the SAME. This is coming from my friends mechanic in Japan that runs his own tuning shop. He also worked at a Nissan plant for over 10 years.
All the U.S and JDM chassis are the same except they got different drivers positions depending on which country they were going to and some got different front and rear bumper supports.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-11-2002, 12:01 AM
We talked about this in the 240sx.org emails, to import an s15 silvia you need to pay the 25-30k for the car US and then by the time you get it brought over to the US it will cost about 40k! so you should just get a S14 and then do the swap to the blacktop and then get a body kit and badges then you will have basically a S15, or if you want swap over to a S14

**DONOTDELETE**
01-11-2002, 12:37 AM
why bother? if you have the $$$, get the s15. 40K for a one-of-a-kind car is pretty damn cheap. you cant compare it to what it costs there, cause they have a ton of them.

AKADriver
01-11-2002, 07:36 AM
Ok, here goes... This topic has been covered a bunch of times, and the answer is always the same, if you want to pony up the money, it can be done, but it's a LOT of money, and not worth it...

Step one, you have to locate a car. Not too difficult, there are plenty of Silvias available for export in Japan, most of them bound for Australia/NZ.

OK, now it's on the boat, on the way over. Step two, you need to get written authorization from Nissan that the Silvia chassis is "substantially similar" to a 240SX. Chances are, you won't. If you don't, then the process becomes so complicated that you might as well give up then and there, unless you have the kind of resources available to an established importer. Crash testing is not an inexpensive proposition.

Step three, the car has arrived in the country, and now it's time for you to pay the government a LOT of money, only to have them hold the car. At this point, you've gotten the OK that the car is substantially similar and capable of being modified for use in the US. This is where a Registered Importer comes in. The RI has to perform the modifications and give it their seal of approval. This means fitting US bumpers and lighting (so now your S13 Silvia is wearing a popup headlight nose). Most likely, the tires, battery, and instrument panel will change as well. In an S13, the motorized belts will have to be fitted. But it's not over yet...

Step four, emissions testing. This can be done on an individual basis, and has to be done before the car can be released. This costs about $5000. Hey, it's a specialized business.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details after this point, but that covers most of what needs to be done.

Of course there's any number of illegal ways to do it...

My opinion? Buy a complete Silvia front clip and a 240SX. shake well. Noone will know the difference and you won't have to commit fraud to do it.

hypercarrots
01-11-2002, 01:32 PM
the chassis rail on the passenger side of the silvia does not continue to the rear like the 240SX coupe does. i don't know if that makes a difference in chassis rigidity, but i think that counts enough for the two chassis to be considered NOT the same.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shin:
I could've sworn I posted in this thread earlier today and I think someone deleted it but here goes again....

JDM and USDM chassis are the SAME. This is coming from my friends mechanic in Japan that runs his own tuning shop. He also worked at a Nissan plant for over 10 years.
All the U.S and JDM chassis are the same except they got different drivers positions depending on which country they were going to and some got different front and rear bumper supports.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PSI240SX
01-11-2002, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G_Blade:
Is it even possible to get an S13 road legal in the states? I know the S15 is totally out, with the chassis having not been sold here, but what about, say, a 180SX?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend Mark has an 89 S13 RHD, here in the states. It was brought here through the military and is registered and street legal. It is insured as a 240sx.

Mav1178
01-12-2002, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shin:
JDM and USDM chassis are the SAME. This is coming from my friends mechanic in Japan that runs his own tuning shop. He also worked at a Nissan plant for over 10 years.
All the U.S and JDM chassis are the same except they got different drivers positions depending on which country they were going to and some got different front and rear bumper supports.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will have pictures tomorrow from a 1991 Silvia Q's which will make your statement completely false.

Like Hypercarrots said, the 240SX chassis frame rails go from the front of the car to the back of the car completely. The Silvia passenger side frame rail(left/port side of car) is missing a huge chunk from roughly the passenger seat position all the way back to the rear end of the car.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

-alex

[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Mav1178 ]

90sr20det
01-12-2002, 01:42 AM
Don't forget to tell them about that little antenna with the light. http://www.freshalloy.com/

Ken

mvargas
01-12-2002, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR> I will have pictures tomorrow from a 1991 Silvia Q's which will make
your statement completely false.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pictures!!!! where??? when???? I want those
pictures!!!

mvargas

stock4door
01-12-2002, 01:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mvargas:


Pictures!!!! where??? when???? I want those
pictures!!!

mvargas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, I know where there are a few pics of this car, next to another Silvia also.

Mav1178
01-12-2002, 07:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:


I will have pictures tomorrow from a 1991 Silvia Q's which will make your statement completely false.

Like Hypercarrots said, the 240SX chassis frame rails go from the front of the car to the back of the car completely. The Silvia passenger side frame rail(left/port side of car) is missing a huge chunk from roughly the passenger seat position all the way back to the rear end of the car.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My compelling evidence: http://forums.freshalloy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=008408

-alex

Jhapa
01-12-2002, 10:32 PM
you have to have the other car to compare it with. so repost with the picture of 240sx undercarriage.

Mav1178
01-12-2002, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jhapa:
you have to have the other car to compare it with. so repost with the picture of 240sx undercarriage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would I need to repost with picture of 240SX undercarriage?

Go look under your own car!

-alex

hypercarrots
01-13-2002, 02:15 AM
funny

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:


Why would I need to repost with picture of 240SX undercarriage?

Go look under your own car!

-alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
10-23-2002, 04:56 AM
what if a silvia is already here and ready to be sold?
check this out.
http://www.tpimotorsports.com/sales-detail.asp?VehicleID=1043

thoraxe
10-23-2002, 07:55 AM
What if it's only for offroad use and you couldn't register it if you tried??

And Alex, as for your comments about the silvia chassis being different, why couldn't you just have an NHTSA RI add the lacking frame rail piece, throw in some door bars and bumper reinforcements, and call it a day? The underpinnings of the UNIBODY are more important when it comes to crash testing... I don't think the frame rails are going to be that big of a deal.

Deep down structurally (in terms of crashworthiness) the cars are basically identical. Since that frame rail is basically not a structural component of the unibody, technically it shouldn't even be a consideration in saying whether or not the cars are "equivalent." Remember, the wording from the NHTSA site is very forgiving --

</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
...unless NHTSA has decided that the motor vehicle is substantially similar to a motor vehicle originally manufactured for importation into and sale in the United States, certified under 49 U.S.C. § 30115 (formerly section 114 of the Act), and of the same model year as the model of the motor vehicle to be compared, and is capable of being readily altered to conform to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards.

[/QUOTE]

notice the wording of the last phrase -- capable. Obviously it is VERY SIMPLE to make the JDM chassis into a USDM chassis -- just add that damn frame rail piece! Hell, the frame rail is just frickin' mild steel or something... you could get the crap at home depot to make it.

With that wording, the only thing you COULDN'T do is import a 94+ 180SX because there is nothing in the US that would be of the same year... but you might easily be able to get around that one, too.

asad
10-23-2002, 09:58 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Since that frame rail is basically not a structural component of the unibody

[/QUOTE]

And you know this...how? Have you crash tested cars with and without that frame rail piece to see the differences? How about done a finite-element analysis on the chassis to see what effect that missing piece of frame rail will have? Or how about even a back-of-the-envelope calculation to estimate the effect of that missing piece?

Don't make uninformed statements, especially ones you can't back up.

Asad

thoraxe
10-23-2002, 10:28 AM
Is the frame rail extremely securely welded to the chassis in that portion?

Dude you should know enough about meche to understand that something you can crush with a jack/jackstand is not going to mean squat in a collision.

Regardless of that fact, the point is that the ADDITION of that piece (very simple) to the JDM chassis is enough to then make the chassis equivalent (if there are no other differences).

asad
10-23-2002, 10:39 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Dude you should know enough about meche to understand that something you can crush with a jack/jackstand is not going to mean squat in a collision.

[/QUOTE]

And you should know enough about meche to realize that forces are VECTORS and, as such, they have direction. Just because you can crush it in one direction doesn't mean it has negligible strength in another.

Asad

_Nzo_
10-23-2002, 11:04 AM
So does anyone have any info on the feasability of registering a RHD s14 as charlies14 said maybe as an offroad vehicle only? Im looking at one today and i wanna know of this is possible.

thoraxe
10-23-2002, 12:24 PM
sigh.. yes forces are vectors, and apparently if you apply a vectored force in a purely upwards direction against the frame rail, it gets messed up.

And yes, it is a squared tube, so it should have fairly decent bending strength.

However that particular piece of the frame rail is present behind the b pillar of the vehicle, isn't it? In a frontal collision, if there's enough force to induce bending force that far back in the unibody, you are dead. In a rear collision, it might be an issue, but I still dont' feel that it's going to be that serious.

Look, either way, it's not a big deal, and the NHTSA is just a bunch of guys inducing scare tactics. The brunt of the chassis is already available to the US public, and to convert a JDM chassis into a USDM one would take minimal amounts of work and would result in one that you really couldn't tell was JDM except for the reverse stamped firewall, but I think the firewall is dual stamped anyway, so no biggie there.

Just take it to your local NHTSA RI and let them handle it. It's really not a big deal.

thoraxe
10-23-2002, 12:25 PM
if you want to find out more about registering vehicles that aren't legal for US road use, look to the NHTSA importing webpage;

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/

hurleyboi514
10-23-2002, 12:28 PM
it probably wouldnt be that hard in SC. just buy a similar 240 here (wrecked or someting) and just register it as is. no inspections or emissions here so you could get away with it as long as you doing get in an accident. thats pretty obvious you'd be screwed...

thoraxe
10-23-2002, 12:32 PM
well the easiest (illegal) thing to do would be to get a salvage title 240SX and then just swap the vin plates off the US car to the JDM car, then destroy the US car.

But I believe that's probably fraud.

There also used to be a loophole with Alabama but I think that might have closed up.

_Nzo_
10-23-2002, 05:56 PM
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ShowDisplay/HowtoSD0002.html

If one were to register a rhd s14 as a show car, it would be legal for on-road use as long as you dont drive it more than 2500 miles a year. Yes i realize this is a big IF, but IF it could be registered, it looks like a good deal to me unless im missing something.

GEE-TEE-ARE
10-23-2002, 11:16 PM
OK, I will try to correct a lot of what you guys are saying, just don't take it personal http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif . A few of you guys have some good information, but you are missing vital parts. There is a lot more to crash testing than just door beams (I don't wanna get heavily detailed into it, but trust me it is not just door beams that need help on a Silvia). The big problem is the fact that you would have to perform crash testing on the vehicle. The US DOT does not consider any right hand drive vehicle substantially similar to a US model under any circumstances, therefore you would have to perform crash testing to prove compliance. You must do front and side impact testing (read extremely expensive). Remember, this is only for DOT compliance.

Second, you must deal with EPA since the motor was never certified for US use. Even an SR20DE would have to be tested as it was not certified for the 240 chassis. FTP testing is not cheap.

Third, if you are in California you must again deal with CARB. This is a big pain.

Basically, the government does not want the cars here. It took 2 years of fighting with the government until they could not say no anymore to allow Skylines. There is really no loophole, otherwise we would have done it with the Skylines.

Vernon

GEE-TEE-ARE
10-23-2002, 11:19 PM
"well the easiest (illegal) thing to do would be to get a salvage title 240SX and then just swap the vin plates off the US car to the JDM car, then destroy the US car.

But I believe that's probably fraud.

There also used to be a loophole with Alabama but I think that might have closed up."


Last time I checked, tampering with VIN's was a federal offense.

Vernon

GEE-TEE-ARE
10-23-2002, 11:23 PM
"If one were to register a rhd s14 as a show car, it would be legal for on-road use as long as you dont drive it more than 2500 miles a year. Yes i realize this is a big IF, but IF it could be registered, it looks like a good deal to me unless im missing something. "

You need to read further on the website you posted. The following is from the NHTSA website:

"In determining whether a vehicle is eligible for importation for show or display, NHTSA will consider the following factors, among others:

1. Whether a vehicle of the same make, model, and model year was manufactured and certified for sale in the United States.
2. Whether a vehicle of the same make, model, and model year has been determined eligible for importation pursuant to 49 CFR Part 593.
3. Whether the make and model of a vehicle is currently in production.
4. Whether production of the vehicle make and model was greater than 500 units.
5. Whether the vehicle is a kit car, replica, or special construction vehicle"

This is the part that kills it:

"If the answer to item 4 is affirmative, the applicant must establish that the vehicle is of exceptional technological and/or historical significance. "

Last I checked, the Silvia has no historical or technological significance like a McLaren F1.

Vernon

GEE-TEE-ARE
10-23-2002, 11:35 PM
Just a little more info from the NHTSA/DOT website:

"While there is no specific restriction on importing a right-hand drive vehicle, an eligibility number based on a substantially similar U.S.- certified motor vehicle may not apply. Our experience has shown that the safety performance of right-hand drive vehicles is not necessarily the same as that of apparently similar left-hand drive vehicles offered for sale in this country. However, we will consider them "substantially similar" if the manufacturer advises us that the right-hand drive vehicle would perform the same as the certified left-hand drive vehicle in crash tests. If the vehicle is not substantially similar to one sold in the U.S., the RI would have to demonstrate that the vehicle, when modified, would comply with the applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards, which could involve crash testing several vehicles."

Good luck trying to get Nissan NA to give you a letter saying it is "substantially similar".

Vernon

Mav1178
10-23-2002, 11:39 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Regardless of that fact, the point is that the ADDITION of that piece (very simple) to the JDM chassis is enough to then make the chassis equivalent (if there are no other differences).

[/QUOTE]

But converting an entire 240SX to RHD with RHD-everything does NOT make it a Silvia, since it is still a 240SX that was CONVERTED to almost a Silvia.

And how are you certain they are the same just by the frame rail piece? As far as the DOT are concerned, the chassis are equivilant with a letter from the manufacturer stating that they are equivilant... so what you are saying wouldn't hold any water (except to yourself).

-alex

Mav1178
10-23-2002, 11:43 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Just take it to your local NHTSA RI and let them handle it. It's really not a big deal.

[/QUOTE]

Except it is fraud.

It really isn't a big deal if you have the time and money, but it is committing a crime, and if you are caught the penalties are stiff. At least make this point clear, instead of passing it off as "not a big deal".

-alex

_Nzo_
10-24-2002, 12:23 AM
Ok so the chances of registering as a show car are almost nonexistant. Is there anything illegal about just buying an imported s14 and only using it on private property such as a race track etc?

Also just though of this. How is it that so many people can get RHD ITRs and other hondas registered and we cant?

**DONOTDELETE**
10-24-2002, 12:49 AM
if you were to convert it to a rhd, would it be illegal? if not, then i think you'll save more money by doing the conversion.

run_4_cover
10-24-2002, 12:50 AM
Well...would it make a difference that my S14 is a factory LHD silvia (euro-spec silvia; 200sx)...I'm guessing everything but the headlights and of course engine would be the same, but I don't have a US. spec to compare it to. Depending on how much it costs to import it, I'm willing to pay. Considering I paid $7G's for the car with ~60k miles, I'd be willing to spend some more to bring it back to the US. I should still come out cheaper than buying a 240sx and doing the conversion....if all else fails, I'll just strip the car and ship the parts back and leave the body here...anyone know how similar the 240sx and 200sx(european-spec) are?

Mav1178
10-24-2002, 01:02 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Is there anything illegal about just buying an imported s14 and only using it on private property such as a race track etc?

[/QUOTE]

It is not illegal, but the same rules for importing it for offroad use applies (18 months, blah blah).

</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Also just though of this. How is it that so many people can get RHD ITRs and other hondas registered and we cant?

[/QUOTE]

Do they? I know of a few of them, one being a RHD conversion, and all of them either use a US-spec car and "convert", or swap VINs. Same deal with fraud applies.

What Vernon wrote applies for ANY car from overseas.

-alex

Mav1178
10-24-2002, 01:03 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
if you were to convert it to a rhd, would it be illegal? if not, then i think you'll save more money by doing the conversion.

[/QUOTE]

There is no restriction as to where the driver sits in a car on a public road, as long as the car is certified for use on public roads.

-alex

PongAtari
10-24-2002, 01:50 AM
OK, let`s say I want to commit fraud and swap VINs with a POS 240. How do I get the 180 into the US? I read on another board that you can take the drivetrain out of your JDM car and ship it over as a parts car. It really seems like just doing a SR swap would be MUCH easier and cheaper.. but it seems like a waste to strip and kill my 180 when I`m done over here.

People wanting to use Silvias for track use - I was considering this too, but I don`t think there`s anywhere you could run it. Forget about SCCA Club Racing. Autocross is a no go too, unless you want to run in a modified (no hope of being competitive) class. An SR swapped 240 is eligible for Street Mod (seems like it would be competitive too), but a 180 or Silvia (or any non-USDM car) isn`t. Not sure about drag racing.

I still can`t understand why the government thinks that "bicycles belong on the road" but 180s, Silvias, and Skylines aren`t crashworthy. As for emissions, is an SR a bigger pollutant than a Viper or an Excursion?

Mav1178
10-24-2002, 02:44 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
OK, let`s say I want to commit fraud and swap VINs with a POS 240. How do I get the 180 into the US? I read on another board that you can take the drivetrain out of your JDM car and ship it over as a parts car. It really seems like just doing a SR swap would be MUCH easier and cheaper.. but it seems like a waste to strip and kill my 180 when I`m done over here.


[/QUOTE]

Find freight company that offers shipping of automobiles. You then have to figure out what to tell U.S. Customs about this "car". Best way is to strip it down and declare it as a parts vehicle, then reassemble when you get back. Least amount of concerns.

</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
People wanting to use Silvias for track use - I was considering this too, but I don`t think there`s anywhere you could run it. Forget about SCCA Club Racing. Autocross is a no go too, unless you want to run in a modified (no hope of being competitive) class. An SR swapped 240 is eligible for Street Mod (seems like it would be competitive too), but a 180 or Silvia (or any non-USDM car) isn`t. Not sure about drag racing.

[/QUOTE]

What about just running at tracks for the sake of running at tracks? If you can afford it, it would be very fun to run at some of the country's best tracks (Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Road America, Road Atlanta, VIR, etc).

</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
I still can`t understand why the government thinks that "bicycles belong on the road" but 180s, Silvias, and Skylines aren`t crashworthy. As for emissions, is an SR a bigger pollutant than a Viper or an Excursion?

[/QUOTE]

Then you can also ask, is an Excursion a bigger pollutant than a semi truck? Then, is the semi a bigger pollutant than a 747? (The comparison is kind of unfair b/c of the way the laws are drawn up, and pollution isn't just toxic gases, it is also greenhouse gases.)

Why doesn't it belong here? Only the U.S. government can answer that. Probably has to do with taxes and such, but still that does not take away from the fact that the engine is not legal, the RHD S13/14/15 is not legal, and importing one isn't exactly easy.

-alex

thoraxe
10-24-2002, 07:28 AM
I still think that a smart RI who cares about you will be able to get the car in for cheap. And since none of us have actually gone to an RI and *asked* (have we?), then it's really ALL moot anyway.

Until someone finds out several RI estimates, it's all conjecture.

there's a list of RIs on the NHTSA page.

Let's all stop *****ing and whining.

Well, just you, Asad http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
10-24-2002, 07:58 AM
heres the answer you want to hear: yes it can be done
heres the answer you don't want to hear: it will cost and insane amout of money.

first major step: you need to do crash testing because it has never been done for that model, that means you have to buy several cars and give them to the government to destory. right there you are over $100k. why even consider a silvia when you can get a r34 from motorex for that price?

Society_Mike
10-24-2002, 08:14 AM
hmm, when my friends leave here and move back to the states and take their JDM car with them, they don't have to crash test their cars to get it in the US unless they want to SELL the car. As far as everything we have been told, the crash test thing only applies to those who will sell a car, like a dealer, like Motosux. In the last 3 yrs, I have had 3 friends move back and take their cars. Scott took his JDM 96 Veilside Supra back to South Carolina... no problem, signed papers, changed tires, paid fees, he was done. Same goes for John and his JDM 180sx with S15 front end, but he went through Louisianna I believe. Again for another friend named Scott who took his S13 Siliva to Florida. No crash testing, the cars are legally registered.

Anyway, whats all the fuss? Just move to Japan and be in car guy heaven. 600 circuits to race on, no license required at most. Parts you didn't even know existed in abundance, aftermarket support bigger then the US Honda and Domestic market, and not to mention.. all these hot Japanese chicks to... meet in your free time! Aint life great! Hehehe.. it is for me! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

thoraxe
10-24-2002, 08:35 AM
Mike... are you forgetting that your friends are in the military and their cars don't have to meet ANY requirements?

Or are these friends who were full-on civillians?

As for the moving to Japan thing... I'm workin' on it.

KSU_S13Less
10-24-2002, 08:36 AM
LOL!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif That's the main reason why I almost joined the Air Force! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif The thing that discouraged me was that my recruiter said that only E5s and higher could ship their car's back for free.

My opinion on this topic, is that if live in the U.S. it is cheaper to do a swap than to import. Besides why would you want a heavy S15 when you could have a lighter S13?



Regards

Greg

_Nzo_
10-24-2002, 10:40 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
And since none of us have actually gone to an RI and *asked* (have we?), then it's really ALL moot anyway. Until someone finds out several RI estimates, it's all conjecture.


[/QUOTE]

Ok well ive found a jdm s14 to buy which has already been imported so... http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif If anyone wants to keep the info comming feel free. Right now it looks like the vin switch is the best course of action.

Ambush_Paddington
10-24-2002, 12:52 PM
i didnt read more than one post here, lol, but if you are seriously looking to have a car imported here, hit me up on IM: LI240sxrep , i have someone at a freight company, with ports in japan, and can import whatever you want (had a sunny in the garage not too long ago), although they dont do any emmisions stuff or any of that, but can legally import you a car...i dont know specifics, but i can put you in touch with them.

thoraxe
10-24-2002, 01:07 PM
Wait... explain to me again why we should go to Motorex if we want to buy a GT-R?

ooh this will be funny...

_Nzo_
10-24-2002, 01:16 PM
Edit: Off topic comment

Mav1178
10-24-2002, 01:18 PM
Let me quote Christian:

</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Ok well ive found a jdm s14 to buy which has already been imported so...

[/QUOTE]

-alex

Mav1178
10-24-2002, 01:25 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Wait... explain to me again why we should go to Motorex if we want to buy a GT-R?


[/QUOTE]

We want out buttholes widened.

[/QUOTE]

If you guys have questions regarding MotoRex's prices and policies, contact them. Vernon is helping out by explaining the process with regards to legalization of a Silvia or RHD S13/14, nothing more. If this debate turns into an argument about MotoRex I will lock this thread without warning.

-alex

champa
10-24-2002, 01:48 PM
Couldn’t you just ship the car in pieces and then put it back together once you receive it?

thoraxe
10-24-2002, 02:03 PM
simply shipping it in "pieces" doesn't accomplish what you're looking for... if a unibody comes over in a boat in driveable condition, it's considered a vehicle for the purposes of legalization...

The typical way to sidestep this is to remove the drivetrain and then cut the vehicle in half. You can also cut off the top of it. If you're building a racecar, cutting the top off is cool because it lets you put in a badass rollcage. Otherwise it's just a big pain in the ass.

I would think that if you just stripped it down to unibody, let's say, they NHTSA still wouldn't care.

Honestly, it's more about the customs guy/importer than it is about NHTSA. Some insurance companies will let you insure just about anything, and you can always get kit car registration from your state DMV for just about anything. If you find a customs agent/importer that will "look the other way" when you bring the car over, it's really not a problem.

To do it legally, though, you'd have to talk to an RI, which no one has yet done.

Alex -- as to my comment about Motorex, I wasn't really trying to illicit any kind of argument. I just don't want them to say something like "you HAVE to get it from us", which they're not... so it's moot, and dropped.

wei240
10-24-2002, 02:04 PM
you mean like a front clip, people do that all the time, but if you mean all parts in one box and a stripped out frame in another, that would be interesting...
it seems like the only way to import a car that's not made here is either a. fraud (switching vins is probably easiest) or b. $$$$$$...

**DONOTDELETE**
10-24-2002, 02:09 PM
ok,
#1, you do have to do crash testing on a car that was not released in the us (i was talking about s15's when i said that), period.

#2 - to whoever said why get the r34 from motorex? i was saying that because i said why spend $100k on a s15 when you can spend that on a skyline. well lets see... to get a skyline from motorex all you have to do is give them a fat check and take the keys. to save the $40k by doing it yourself you would have to go through a lot of hassle plus wait several months for the car to pass customs. then you would end up giving it to motorex anyway so they can legalize it - another $25k... why bother with all that crap when they do it for you. plus if you got the money you might as well do it the easy way (anyone that can get a r34 has that kind of money)...

_Nzo_
10-24-2002, 02:12 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
To do it legally, though, you'd have to talk to an RI, which no one has yet done.


[/QUOTE]

Car has been imported and is located in CA. Whats the next step? Whats this about registering as a kit car?

thoraxe
10-24-2002, 02:16 PM
What kind of lien did the car come in on? Just to get it into the country it has to be decided what kind of use it's going to be for...

you have to talk to the importer to find out what the car's status is. If it was already tagged as offroad use, you might have some trouble.

As to sending a car to motorex to get federalized, there are other RIs who don't charge as much for stuff.

Mav1178
10-24-2002, 03:14 PM
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/Gray0206.html

A vehicle without this certification label (FMVSS label) must be imported as a nonconforming vehicle. In this case, the importer must contract with a DOT-Registered Importer (RI) and post a DOT bond for one and a half times the vehicle’s dutiable value. This bond is in addition to the normal Customs entry bond. Copies of the DOT bond and the contract with an RI must be attached to the HS-7 form.

Under the contract, the RI will modify and certify that the vehicle conforms with all applicable FMVSS. Before an RI can modify a vehicle NHTSA must have determined that the vehicle is capable of being modified to comply with the FMVSS. If no determination has been made, the RI must petition NHTSA to determine whether the vehicle is capable of being modified to comply with the FMVSS. If the petitioned vehicle is not similar to one sold in the U.S., this process becomes very complex and costly. A list of vehicles previously determined eligible for importation may be obtained from an RI or from the NHTSA web site.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ELIG0206.html

Vehicles that meet one of the above requirements are assigned a vehicle eligibility number. All eligibility numbers are for a left-hand drive motor vehicles except where right-hand drive (RHD) is identified after the model. While there is no specific restriction on importing a right-hand drive vehicle, an eligibility number based on a substantially similar U.S.- certified motor vehicle may not apply. Our experience has shown that the safety performance of right-hand drive vehicles is not necessarily the same as that of apparently similar left-hand drive vehicles offered for sale in this country. However, we will consider them "substantially similar" if the manufacturer advises us that the right-hand drive vehicle would perform the same as the certified left-hand drive vehicle in crash tests. If the vehicle is not substantially similar to one sold in the U.S., the RI would have to demonstrate that the vehicle, when modified, would comply with the applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards, which could involve crash testing several vehicles. The importer of a vehicle admissible under any eligibility decision must write that number on the Form HS--7 accompanying entry to indicate that the vehicle is eligible for importation.

If you go down the list, a 240SX for MY 1988 is listed. So, theoretically if there were a "1988 240SX" it could be imported.

BUT, the list names cars FROM overseas. Last I recall, S13/14s were sold as "180SX" or "Silvia", not 240SX, so this eligibility would not be met unless you lie about the name of the car (fraud).

This leaves the RI to determine what is needed to meet FMVSS. Which means, it will be much more than what the car is worth.

Given the facts, even what Rockco did in FL (complete RHD conversion with LHD car) sounds like a bargain.

-alex

iHATEstupidity
10-24-2002, 03:31 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Ok well ive found a jdm s14 to buy which has already been imported so...

[/QUOTE]

do you mean the white one that was a theft recovery and has damaged panels and broken lock assemblies?

THINK

_Nzo_
10-24-2002, 05:34 PM
THE white one? Am I missing something?

SimpleS14
10-24-2002, 08:38 PM
I have a quick question...

If you have military status can you bring or import a Silvia after you have been stationed at that country for awhile?

I work with this guy in the Marines and he is thinking about import a S15 Silvia specR. I told him that its $$$, but he said that he can do it and at a good deal because he's in the military.

_Nzo_
10-24-2002, 08:50 PM
Short answer is yes.

PongAtari
10-24-2002, 08:50 PM
Someone from the VRT boards talked to an RI about a 1994 180sx Type X.

This is what I got back from an importing company in Texas.....

I would like to thank you for your interest in Wallace Environmental Testing Laboratories, Inc. (WETL) import programs. If this vehicle is right hand drive US DOT will require that at least one additional identical vehicle be
imported for the purposes of crash testing. There is no guarantee that the crash test data will meet the standards of DOT.

If this vehicle is left hand drive, I regret to inform you WETL has not previously imported a vehicle of this type. In addition, your vehicle is not on the DOT's eligibility list. I would suggest the cost could exceed $9,000.00 US dollars. The project will take in excess of 5 months. The vehicle must be modified to be identical to the US version, including both
driver and passenger air bags for 1994 model year and later vehicles.

Sorry I do not have more positive information.


The more I read about this the less it seems worth doing. I`ll probably just have to cut my poor car in half and ship the front over when the time comes.

Mav - True, you could run an imported S chassis at open track events.. but that`s a lot of money and hassle to bring over a car just to run for fun! Like you said, if you can afford it... I`m all for having fun, but personally if I was going to go through the trouble and expense of bringing a car over, I`d want to be able to use it for competition.

Society_Mike
10-25-2002, 12:12 AM
The 3 guys I know, listed above, that sent cars back to the US, 2 are civilian and 1 is Military. Sending cars back doesn't have anything to do with rank, rank restrictions on things is only in the Navy, Marines, and Army.
Alos, its not just a "military thing". If you are SOFA sponsored, you can bring cars back. SOFA = Status Of Forces Agreement between the US DOD and the host country. Most civilians working on overseas bases have SOFA status.

Mav1178
10-25-2002, 02:51 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
I work with this guy in the Marines and he is thinking about import a S15 Silvia specR. I told him that its $$$, but he said that he can do it and at a good deal because he's in the military.


[/QUOTE]

Yeah, HE can import it, but it can only be registered as HIS car, not yours.

The title on this importation is not transferable.

-alex

S13wannabe
10-25-2002, 06:59 AM
I spent 4 years in the Navy, and made 2 deployments to the Mediterrainean, and both times brought back some large gifts and souvineers. I don't recall in any way, shape or form, being able to completely avoid customs. It was easier than if I were a civilian, yes, but you still go through customs. A car is a little different, and I can guarantee even in the military, you're not going to completely avoid all the requirements you must meet. If the value of the object you're importing is greater than like $10,000 (could be wrong on the amount), then you still must get it inspected by a federal customs officer (not some E-6 or above qualified to inspect petty objects), and then bam !!!, you're hit with going through the whole normal process that everybody else goes through, I would imagine.

thoraxe
10-25-2002, 09:32 AM
The military (and I guess SOFA) rules state that you may bring your personal vehicle back without any kind of hassle... there was a lot of information on it that I saw at some point back in the day... but basically if you are armed forces overseas (or SOFA I suppose) and you have car you can bring it back. However you can't sell it, it must be destroyed. And you can only bring one car back. And you can only do it once.... etc etc

I keep saying, find an RI, talk to them. This is all conjecture and bullsh!t right now, so can we just lock this thread already?

Mav1178
10-25-2002, 02:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
I keep saying, find an RI, talk to them. This is all conjecture and bullsh!t right now, so can we just lock this thread already?


[/QUOTE]

And I can tell you this:

My info comes from MotoRex, a RI.

-alex

**DONOTDELETE**
10-25-2002, 02:57 PM
for those of you who is a civilian and brought a car back to the US from japan, how much did you end up spending for the WHOLE transition? some of you mentioned that it was as simple as signing forms, but did you also had to pay the fees?