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View Full Version : 2Liter showdown....3-GTSE vs. 4G63 vs. SR20DET



**DONOTDELETE**
12-24-2001, 01:51 PM
I'm only interested in design pros and cons,capabilities and the like.
I am getting a 240sx so Nissan is what I like as my next car.
BUT if the cars they went in were of no consequence, which engine would you like and why??

NISSANSPDR
12-24-2001, 07:37 PM
Lets not forget the 2.0 Liter turbo's found in the Subaru Impreza WRX STi (well at least the Version VI and VII...no clue about the new one) creating "280HP" and the 2.0 Liter turbo found in the Lancer Evo VI and VII...creating also a "280HP". Those are some 2.0 Liter turbos!!! No offense to SR guys.

_________________________
Yours truly,
Gabriel
www.greddy240sx.nissanpower.com (http://www.greddy240sx.nissanpower.com) FOR SALE!

97 S14
12-24-2001, 07:40 PM
The WRX motors run ~14.5 psi of boost stock, not sure about the EVO motors.... but turn up the boost on an SR to 14-15 psi and it will do 260-300 HP (crank) as well depending on which SR motor your talking about. The WRX block is pretty nice... aluminum with iron sleeves stock, wish SR's had that stock.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NISSANSPDR:
Lets not forget the 2.0 Liter turbo's found in the Subaru Impreza WRX STi (well at least the Version VI and VII...no clue about the new one) creating "280HP" and the 2.0 Liter turbo found in the Lancer Evo VI and VII...creating also a "280HP". Those are some 2.0 Liter turbos!!! No offense to SR guys.

_________________________
Yours truly,
Gabriel
www.greddy240sx.nissanpower.com (http://www.greddy240sx.nissanpower.com) FOR SALE!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
12-24-2001, 08:10 PM
The Lancer Evo uses a reworked version of the 4G63. The specs of the block are the same but I think they relocated some pulleys and its mounted in the car differently. The 4G63 varient in the Lancer also has a composite trust bearing when Mitsu changed to the 7 bolt pattern so its much more resistant to the crankwalk issues that plague the Eclipse/Talon 2G cars.

The eclipse history is kinda weird. Mitsu built the engine brought it over to the US first in the eclipse/talon cars and then reworked the engine and it entered production in Japan as the soul of the first Evo Lancer a year or so later... The first time I can recall an engine debuting in the US before Japan.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-24-2001, 09:14 PM
I am more intyerested in comparing inline 4's...although I think that a tuned boxer engine is one great soundng engine.
1st gen Talons did'nt have the crank walk problems...and have a better flowing head,bigger turbo(14b),bigger throttlebody etc.They run 11psi stock on 7.8:1 comp.
The 2nd gen had bigger maf, bigger throttlebody elbow(but smallerTB..go figure)
smaller(by 40%)intake ports, a smaller T25,
and made its ponies at 14psi and 8.5:1 pistons.
As I understand it the Evo 1,2,3 were all based off thhe same setup that we should have had...a mix of parts.
With mainly stock parts its not uncommon to get 275+hp.
1st gen block(prefer 1990 for big pistons)
1st gen head
2nd gen pistons
2nd gen maf
2nd gen TB elbow
1st gen TB
1st gen turbo @16-18lbs (small mods to exhaust housing.
2.5"-3" exhaust
all on an iron block bottom end capable of 450hp before failure.

pretty cool.

Rob

http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
12-24-2001, 10:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by McTwist:
I am more intyerested in comparing inline 4's...although I think that a tuned boxer engine is one great soundng engine.
1st gen Talons did'nt have the crank walk problems...and have a better flowing head,bigger turbo(14b),bigger throttlebody etc.They run 11psi stock on 7.8:1 comp.
The 2nd gen had bigger maf, bigger throttlebody elbow(but smallerTB..go figure)
smaller(by 40%)intake ports, a smaller T25,
and made its ponies at 14psi and 8.5:1 pistons.
As I understand it the Evo 1,2,3 were all based off thhe same setup that we should have had...a mix of parts.
With mainly stock parts its not uncommon to get 275+hp.
1st gen block(prefer 1990 for big pistons)
1st gen head
2nd gen pistons
2nd gen maf
2nd gen TB elbow
1st gen TB
1st gen turbo @16-18lbs (small mods to exhaust housing.
2.5"-3" exhaust
all on an iron block bottom end capable of 450hp before failure.

pretty cool.

Rob

http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend has a 90' AWD Tsi with all the components you mentioned above and a ported and polished turbo. It runs 13.1 at 107 and 21 psi not sure about the 60' time though.

I'm getting one this summer my 240 would need 7 grand to get there http://www.freshalloy.com/ , so I'm gonna sell mine and get a 1st get with a good body and blown engine and rebuild it with 2nd gen pistons. http://www.freshalloy.com/

White_240sx
12-24-2001, 11:24 PM
I like the 3S-GTE and the EJ22(err uhh 20) and don't forget the F20c or the FJ20ET, or the RB20DET, or the S20, or or or....

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 01:39 AM
It may not be japanese but don't forget the 2.0 Cosworth YB (engine in the ford UK sierra/escort cosworth rally cars), there is one in the UK that runs about 36psi and does 3.4 sec 0 - 60's http://www.freshalloy.com/ I did think about fitting one in my S13 but funds didn't allow. http://www.freshalloy.com/

[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: UK200SX ]

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 07:25 AM
Vortex240...I have a 1990 fwd DSM project.
Body is solid. Needs small repair and paint.
I still have the full interior, just not inside the car.Various mods.Much faster than most cars around.
I MUST have a 240 regardless of power plant.
Thinking about trading or selling.
What year/condition is your 240??

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 08:24 AM
McTwist
Problem is that I can't sell/trade it now, besides its a 90' hatch auto, no rust, perfect interior, intake, exhaust, more new things than I can list here ~$4000 in them. 180k

I'm gona get $4+ grand in the summer for it then get a DSM. You probably wouldn't want it anyway its auto.
Wojtek

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 11:48 AM
www.tristarx.dsmpower.com (http://www.tristarx.dsmpower.com)

The setup on my car cost just about $7k as well. Things just add up!

Tx.

Wayne http://www.phase2motortrend.com

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 07:12 PM
I have had a 4G, they are strong, had one that ran 12.87 with a 16G, 2.5 in ex.
I ran a Evo4 last night on the express way, it had an exhaust, don't know what else, but I could have passed him at 180KM, we started from 60. We played a few times. they lose a lot through the tranny, full time 4wd. The 180 just has exhaust, air cleaner.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 08:38 PM
I wish I had a 1G http://www.freshalloy.com/

I can't shake the feeling that there is another unmentioned 2.0l turbo engine out there somewhere

Meeks32
12-25-2001, 09:01 PM
Older Lotus engines? I dont know what displacement they had though.

White_240sx
12-25-2001, 09:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sumabon:
no h22a's?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only think we can have 2-liter engines. http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
12-25-2001, 11:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Meeks32:
Older Lotus engines? I dont know what displacement they had though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The old Lotus Esprit engine was a 2.2 four cylinder.

96 240
12-26-2001, 12:34 AM
Just out of curiosity what is "crank walk?" My friends friend has a '96 DSM that got crank walk and he didnt know exactly what it was either...He only new that the Mitsu place said its like a 4-5k repair...

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: 96 240 ]

**DONOTDELETE**
12-26-2001, 12:41 AM
heh, 2 liters... just like F3 racing! http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
12-26-2001, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vortex240:
Nice car tristarx, very nice hope you get that 11 sec pass. Did the rollcage came with the car, and how much did you shell out for it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, nope sold the car before I am able to reach the 11 sec dream. The roll cage came with the car when I bought it, it was a modified Autopower bolt on bar by RRE (www.roadraceengineering.com).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>I plan to spend $6-7 grand tops on the car capable of running 18psi. The usual K&N, 2g intake elbow, 3" exhaust, fuel pump rewire, manual boost controller and a gauage, front strut brace, tokicos along with srings and ofcourse the free mods. Thats were I plan to stay for quite a bit until some good cash flow starts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems like you had done some research on what to do with the Eclipses. Good for you. As for the above mods, it will cost you MUCH less than $6-$7K unless you also included the cost of the car.

One shop we highly recommend is Road Race Engineering. Give their website a check out, very nice informations there.

Tx.

Wayne http://www.phase2motortrend.com

Wojtek[/QUOTE]

**DONOTDELETE**
12-26-2001, 12:48 AM
http://www.engdev.com/images/ns.jpg &lt;- my vote http://www.freshalloy.com/

8,500rpm redline, 2 liters, over 300bhp.
110kgs.

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Justin ]

**DONOTDELETE**
12-26-2001, 12:50 AM
Nice car tristarx, very nice hope you get that 11 sec pass. Did the rollcage came with the car, and how much did you shell out for it?

I plan to spend $6-7 grand tops on the car capable of running 18psi. The usual K&N, 2g intake elbow, 3" exhaust, fuel pump rewire, manual boost controller and a gauage, front strut brace, tokicos along with srings and ofcourse the free mods. Thats were I plan to stay for quite a bit until some good cash flow starts.

Wojtek

**DONOTDELETE**
12-26-2001, 12:57 AM
I actually did all that to my friends car. He isn't very good at working on cars so I helped him out a lot, five other of my friends have 1g tolons as well. http://www.freshalloy.com/
Wojtek

KenFuji
12-26-2001, 01:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Justin:
8,500rpm redline, 2 liters, over 300bhp.
110kgs.

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Justin ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wow looks real mean

**DONOTDELETE**
12-26-2001, 04:19 AM
Isn't that the Primera British Touringcar SR engine?

KenFuji
12-26-2001, 04:50 AM
what puzzles me is the intake side of the engine if you look at it verticaly is on the right hand side like a jz motor.

quest
12-26-2001, 04:19 PM
4G63 is my favorite, hands down! I have worked with 'em from the 8valve versions in the non US starions. Motor is rugged, can match any 2.0 power output with better torque, FAR easier to work on, more compact, WAYYY smoother (with balance shafts). In a left hand drive s chasis, 4G is much better suited as you can mount the turbo ala starion (hot side on passenger side of engine compartment - as it should be), for much better access, as its not all tangled up with the master cylinder and steering like the nissan motors, with clearance and heat problems! DSMs have excellent engine management that will send you into the 10s with BONE STOCK ecu.... tons of info and tech help available. Don't need any metal head gasket either, and you can run inexpensive 2G pistons.
I was gonna go with a 4G63 swap into my s13, but the ca18det is nice and capable enough... besides, I don't need another stupid fast street car. My '87 corolla gts powered by the mitsu monster is enough http://www.freshalloy.com/

Since I already found the "perfect" motor, I didn't get into the 3SGTE. I understand that you have to get the "right" version and mix and match or adapt to FR layout.... wasn't worth it to me, and worse if that motor "leans". I HATE that look, whassup with that ?!!!
Nevertheless, I respect these guys, and you'll be seeing a 7sec 3sgte. There cars are top shelf, smartly done, without the big $$$$ and hype! http://www.psiracing.com/

d240t2
12-27-2001, 04:12 PM
I used to like road race, too, but their fabrication skills leave a bit to be desired. They built my intercooler for me, with a Griffin core and custom end tanks. They used 2 pieces in a couple places because they didn'thave one piece long enough...and parts that should have been parallel were not (visual to the eye). Their welds left a bit to be desired. Luckily, my bumper hides it all, but you are welcome to see if you like.

Dennis

**DONOTDELETE**
12-28-2001, 12:39 AM
QUEST!!!
How can I put a 4g63 engine into a 240???
I want to know. I want to do it.
Then for the same money that I would put into a stock SR...I could build an absolute beast of a Mitsu powered S-13!!
Rob
Please tell me how!!!
http://www.freshalloy.com/

DSSA
12-28-2001, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AWD4G63:
The Lancer Evo uses a reworked version of the 4G63. The specs of the block are the same but I think they relocated some pulleys and its mounted in the car differently. The 4G63 varient in the Lancer also has a composite trust bearing when Mitsu changed to the 7 bolt pattern so its much more resistant to the crankwalk issues that plague the Eclipse/Talon 2G cars.

The eclipse history is kinda weird. Mitsu built the engine brought it over to the US first in the eclipse/talon cars and then reworked the engine and it entered production in Japan as the soul of the first Evo Lancer a year or so later... The first time I can recall an engine debuting in the US before Japan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the 4G63 was used in Japan long before the U.S. way back in the day, it was used in SOHC form in some Starios, and used in the Galant VR4s which are the predecessor to the DSMs and what they are based upon.

Josh

12-28-2001, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 97 S14:
The WRX block is pretty nice... aluminum with iron sleeves stock, wish SR's had that stock.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm. The SR does have sleeves. Can't run an aluminum block without something on the cylinder walls. Some blocks use a coating called Nikasil (like the Corvette, and Porsche's, I believe) on the walls, but the SR definitely has sleeves.

Asad

12-28-2001, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 96 240:
Just out of curiosity what is "crank walk?" My friends friend has a '96 DSM that got crank walk and he didnt know exactly what it was either...He only new that the Mitsu place said its like a 4-5k repair...

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: 96 240 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the DSM VFaq (www.vfaq.com)

"A month ago, I went to the dealer to order a radiator hose, and while I was there I walked to the service bays and started chatting with a tech working on a 95' GST. I asked him what was wrong with it and he said the crankshaft was "walking". I didn't know what that meant, so he showed me: he had the crankshaft exposed and he pressed a screwdriver between the rods and pushed the crankshaft back and forth by maybe 10 mm. The crank, apparently, is NOT supposed to move horizontally at all. He showed me a spot where there should have been a journal bearing, and the apparent lack thereof on this engine. The whole crank was being replaced along with all new bearings."

**DONOTDELETE**
12-28-2001, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
Some blocks use a coating called Nikasil (like the Corvette, and Porsche's, I believe) on the walls, but the SR definitely has sleeves.


Asad<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Add ferrari to that list too... beautiful motors. yum yum
Crank "walk" = janked thrust bearings. Riding your clutch can also cause this sometimes

Demon

'97 S14 SE Turbo
12-28-2001, 11:14 AM
I would call that an understatement! http://www.freshalloy.com/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:
Add ferrari to that list too... beautiful motors. yum yum<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
01-03-2002, 06:20 PM
Yes hands down the 4G63 is the choice powerplant of the lineup. i own both a 91 S13 coupe SE and a 90 Eclipse GSX (which is for sale with a laundry list of mods) i just got the S13 but i have had the GSX for about a year now. i wouldnt have got the S13 if my friend shawn didnt take me for a ride in his SR powered coupe. the eclipse has all the power of the SR and then some, i think. but getting sideways is very limited and thats no fun at all http://www.freshalloy.com/ plus the insurance is killing me!!! so if any one wants details on the 90 GSX shoot me an email!

**DONOTDELETE**
01-03-2002, 09:47 PM
Picture this with me...4g63/4g64 (stroker) 2.3 liter in a '90 240sx.
-Ported head w/3-angle valve job
-"Cheater" turbo (Supra CT26 comp. wheel in ported 14b with custom O2 housing)
-3" exhaust
-huge FMIC,and 2.5"hard piping all round.
-sheet metal intake
-all this at 14psi should be quite entertaining.
I think that might be the ticket to surprising a lot of people up here in Toronto. Most guys think that the 240 is slow. Wonder what the 1st RX-7 or Supra to catch a taste of the "new breed" will think?

ROB

http://www.freshalloy.com/