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View Full Version : s13sr or s14sr????



nismo696969
03-15-2005, 06:42 AM
I am about to buy a motor for my s14.I was just wondering if it would be easier to get hp out the s13 motor since the port design and limitations on camshafts for the s14.Im looking to get 450 hp lookin at the GT3076R-WG for turbo with approp. mods,fmic,injectors etc.
Also if anyone knows does enthalpy have a shop he works out of?And where in tampa?

mr_240sx
03-15-2005, 09:34 AM
well tampa is in florida, which is on the south eastern shore of the states!

nismo696969
03-15-2005, 02:28 PM
I said where in tampa.I live in florida smart guy.

Vapor
03-15-2005, 02:46 PM
I'm a fan of buying the newest motor you can afford or easily install.

Nikeboy355
03-15-2005, 03:27 PM
S13 SR... I agree that you should buy the cleanest one you can... you won't regret it...

S13 SR will be much cheaper to reach your goals as well but if you insist on having an S14 SR because you have an S14 chassis, then expect to pay a couple more grand for the same results (at that power level ofcourse... for a stockish setup I prefer the S14 SR)

kovert
03-15-2005, 03:42 PM
s13 blacktop..easy to install..newest one you can get.

assassain11
03-15-2005, 10:28 PM
This is a good question, and I am a bit curious about the benefits of either. The S14 has VTC, which helps your powerband out in what way? Also, if you have a 14 or 15 motor, don't you loose VTC when you upgrade camgears? I believe Tomei makes camshafts that utilize your stock camgears, however how necessary do you people out in FA land think upgrading your camgears is? Also as far as wiring and mounting goes, would putting the 13 SR into the 14 chassis be a nightmare?

Five10PacksDE
03-16-2005, 02:33 AM
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67935814&page= 3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I posted the same thing not long ago.

KAkiller
03-16-2005, 02:37 AM
Also, if you have a 14 or 15 motor, don't you loose VTC when you upgrade camgears?



You only lose the VTC if you use the intake cam gear (will require a S13 SR Cam bolt).




S13 SR will be much cheaper to reach your goals as well but if you insist on having an S14 SR because you have an S14 chassis, then expect to pay a couple more grand for the same results (at that power level ofcourse... for a stockish setup I prefer the S14 SR)



Not sure why it would be cheaper to build a S13 SR vs. a S14 SR. Turbo would cost the same, Turbo Manifold the same, Cams cost the same, and etc.

SoCalS14
03-16-2005, 11:34 AM
This is a good question, and I am a bit curious about the benefits of either. The S14 has VTC, which helps your powerband out in what way? Also, if you have a 14 or 15 motor, don't you loose VTC when you upgrade camgears? I believe Tomei makes camshafts that utilize your stock camgears, however how necessary do you people out in FA land think upgrading your camgears is? Also as far as wiring and mounting goes, would putting the 13 SR into the 14 chassis be a nightmare?



The VTC is supposed to give more torque in lower RPM range...I have a S14SR, for modest mods, its the way to go, I find myself not having to rev the [censored] out it to produce power...Well, A s15 turbo helps a bit too...

Five10PacksDE
03-16-2005, 12:59 PM
no mattwe waht, I believe vtc only does so much. v-tec is a different story, or as nissan would like to call it, VVL. Changing cam timing on intake helps but it cannot compare to intake and exhaust variable vavle lift. Please do not mention soleniods. I am talking about stuff that is here and affordable. Kinda affordable at least. I am poor.

nismo696969
03-17-2005, 04:03 AM
So it looks like im gonna get a s13 black top.Then i wont have to worry about the vtc.Seems to be easier to reach my goal.

Five10PacksDE
03-17-2005, 12:28 PM
"So it looks like im gonna get a s13 black top.Then i wont have to worry about the vtc.Seems to be easier to reach my goal. "
Well, I would still get a redtop. it depends on how good of leakage each engine has. Just because a blacktop is newer, do not assume it is in better condition without testing it. Plus, the red vavle cover. That makes it pull significantly better than the one with the blacktop. I think it has to do with heat dissipation. Heee hee

_omg
03-18-2005, 06:34 AM
It's worth noting that while an S13 head outflows an S14 head the S14 flows better once you stick the intake manifold on. I'd say nissan did a fair bit more development there than many of us (including myself) gave them credit for.

Five10 - quick followup on some of my earlier comments, we had our muck around S14 n/a project car on the dyno again this week with the new cams for a very quick tune (mostly a case of making sure it was all ok and moving the VTC turn "off" point higher). It's now making 30-35 more hp atw than a standard S13 SR20DET

SRFiveTen
03-19-2005, 11:46 PM
I'd say nissan did a fair bit more development there than many of us (including myself) gave them credit for.


nissan calls it "ad port" (aerodynamic port) where the runners are tapered towards the cylinderhead to aid increase velocity, to enhance low & mid range torque.
i read this in the jdm s14 fsm and another jdm reference i often use.



(mostly a case of making sure it was all ok and moving the VTC turn "off" point higher).


i have not had a chance to confirm, but jdm s14 fsm mentioned the switch off rpm for sr20de to be @5700rpm, same as s14 sr20det; jdm s15 fsm and tomei website reference mentioned it to be beyond 8000rpm.
the latter makes more sense as n/a would benefit more from greater overlap, which enhances exhaust scavenging.

i wish i had more research and destruction time with my s14 sr20de...

_omg
03-20-2005, 03:55 AM
I was always under the impression that the "aerodynamic port" nissan refers to was the S13 style high port straight into the chamber design, we've got a few spare S14 intake manifolds/runners kicking around so we might take a closer look at exactly how they're designed.

Regarding the switch off point, I was always under the impression it was the same 5700 as the turbo and haven't seen the references to 8000 in any of the references you've mentioned there, might have to go and have another look (though my japanese isn't what it used to be). It would seem odd to me that it's 8000 as it's somewhere above factory rev cut.

In terms of research, if it helps the Tomei 272 procams worked much better than we thought. Our muck around engine is still very mildly modded, just the cams, 4-2-1 into 60mm headers with a 70mm catback, DET ignition with a DET power fc, S15 injectors, 80mm maf and a pod filter. Compression, throttle body, intake manifold, ports etc are all untouched and it's making more at the wheels than a JDM S15 DET (and quite a bit more than S13 DET's). It hasn't even been tuned properly for the cams, just a real quick one to see what difference the cams made (touch over 20hp) before we start with some of the other stuff.

SRFiveTen
03-20-2005, 01:49 PM
It would seem odd to me that it's 8000 as it's somewhere above factory rev cut.



yes, the engineers made sure that the vtc would not get switched off in s15 sr20de; that's my take.

vosko
03-20-2005, 02:10 PM
i'm interested now.......so you are using a jdm rwd sr20de with the powerfc etc. how much power did it make? you said more than a s13det... but that is very vague

_omg
03-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Because we use dyno dynamics dynos here the actual numbers won't make sense as they read 10-15% lower than a dyno jet and 15-20% lower than the dynapacks (hub dynos). For the actual numbers a stock S13 DET will make ~135hp on a dyno dynamics, the S14 N/a engine is currently making 167