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**DONOTDELETE**
01-05-2002, 08:18 AM
Which engine would be better as a daily driver? Assuming they are both running somewhere in the 13's.

Which will be more reliable?

Will there be trouble finding parts for the sr20det if something breaks?

Which will be better on gas?

Any other considerations between these two?

**DONOTDELETE**
01-05-2002, 08:27 AM
I feel another war is about to start http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
01-05-2002, 08:32 AM
hey evasion, that is the question that I should have asked. thanks for doing it for me.

I think the SR would be much better as a daily driver, and it I would buy nothing but premium 97 octane.

This is others opinion, I have been told this. I am not sure, cuz I dont have a SR (yet). But I would definatley put premium gas only.

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: 240SXTACY ]

BensonLovesDrifting
01-05-2002, 09:27 AM
obviously a ka24de would be a better daily driver. once you swap an engine in your car, the reliability will never be the same.

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-05-2002, 10:15 AM
Kinda loaded question that's asking for trouble. Lots of thread already cover this.

In the end its all down to your personal preference. Both are good, both can be bad, etc...

IMO, the KA24DE+T works for me, because of the torque available in the lower rpm range. Makes daily driving easy. Again, IMO.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by evasion:
Which engine would be better as a daily driver? Assuming they are both running somewhere in the 13's.

Which will be more reliable?

Will there be trouble finding parts for the sr20det if something breaks?

Which will be better on gas?

Any other considerations between these two?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mark slide squad
01-05-2002, 01:10 PM
I have to disagree with you Benson, since YOU have never done an engine swap yourself haha. It all depends on a few things. If your KA has low mileage, is in tip top condition, and you put a good quality turbo kit on it, and do everything the right way, the car will be reliable if it is tuned properly. If you half a$$ everything, and cut corners, you are going to run into problems. Look at it this way, you could have a high mileage, nothing but trouble KA, and then swap in an SR20DET, and do it the RIGHT way, put quality parts on it, do a good job on the wiring, make everything just how the factory would do it, and the SR will be as reliable as any factory engine. After all, the SR is a factory engine, its not like its a super race motor that will blow up after 6 months, I have had my SR20DET in my S13 for 4 years, and it has never broken down on me, except for when the tranny died, but thats because my friend was driving the car on slicks and tried power shifting with no clutch!! Other than that, it is a bullet proof daily driver. BUT you have to do the swap right, and not cut corners, same goes for any upgrade on your car. People bad mouth the torque on the SR, but thats because they have the wrong set up. They are using Skyline GTR sized HKS cores and huge I/C piping on a weeny stock T25 turbo, there is no point for it, it just creates tremendous pressure drop, and it really kills the bottom end. If you get an i/c that is made for a t25, and comparable sized i/c piping, the car has instant torque, and all the way through the power band, like mine. Daily driving, I prefer my SR20DET, but I drive my 96 S14 with KA usually everyday, because I do a lot of long distance driving, so I don't mind if I rack up the miles on the KA.

BensonLovesDrifting
01-05-2002, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
I have to disagree with you Benson, since YOU have never done an engine swap yourself haha. It all depends on a few things. If your KA has low mileage, is in tip top condition, and you put a good quality turbo kit on it, and do everything the right way, the car will be reliable if it is tuned properly. If you half a$$ everything, and cut corners, you are going to run into problems. Look at it this way, you could have a high mileage, nothing but trouble KA, and then swap in an SR20DET, and do it the RIGHT way, put quality parts on it, do a good job on the wiring, make everything just how the factory would do it, and the SR will be as reliable as any factory engine. After all, the SR is a factory engine, its not like its a super race motor that will blow up after 6 months, I have had my SR20DET in my S13 for 4 years, and it has never broken down on me, except for when the tranny died, but thats because my friend was driving the car on slicks and tried power shifting with no clutch!! Other than that, it is a bullet proof daily driver. BUT you have to do the swap right, and not cut corners, same goes for any upgrade on your car. People bad mouth the torque on the SR, but thats because they have the wrong set up. They are using Skyline GTR sized HKS cores and huge I/C piping on a weeny stock T25 turbo, there is no point for it, it just creates tremendous pressure drop, and it really kills the bottom end. If you get an i/c that is made for a t25, and comparable sized i/c piping, the car has instant torque, and all the way through the power band, like mine. Daily driving, I prefer my SR20DET, but I drive my 96 S14 with KA usually everyday, because I do a lot of long distance driving, so I don't mind if I rack up the miles on the KA.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, my car runs great actually. i just have problems with vacuum leaks messing up my idle sometimes. the car doesnt seem to run consistently... i think weather plays a big part on how my engine decides to run that day (i.e. - humidity, heat, cold, etc). do you guys with sr20det have the same feeling?

anyway there IS less response out of the sr than the ka because of the turbo... it's not like i mind though.

so i dunno mark... are u trying to say that after doing a swap on a 240sx and doing performance modifications to it, that it will be just as reliable as a 240sx that is maintained well without modification? that's what i meant by reliability & daily driveability, because i don't think that it's true.

Mark slide squad
01-05-2002, 07:12 PM
Benson,
There is less response with the SR because of the turbo?! whaaat? I have better "respsonse" on my sr than i do my s14 ka, maybe you don't feel that way because your turbo/exhaust is leaking all the time haha.
And also, when you say that a KA will be more reliable than a SR with mods, I never said that. If you look at the originial question that started the topic...

"Which engine would be better as a daily driver? Assuming they are both running somewhere in the 13's. Which will be more reliable?"

That was the question. Running 13's on KA will require either turbo (most popular form of upgrading on KA) or NOS or a fully built 13:1 compression N/A KA, which is highly unlikely. SO with his question, I stated that I feel that the SR20DET would be better for reliability, because after all, it is a factory engine, built for turbo, and it doesn't take much to get it into the 13's. With just exhaust, down pipe, and air filter an SR will be in the 13's. Those aren't going to hurt your daily reliability AT ALL. But I also said the KA would be reliable AS WELL, with a quality turbo kit, and a properly tuned set up. It depends on the how many miles are on the KA though. It all comes down to personal preference. Take a look at Ken's S13, now if you threw a turbo kit on his KA, you think it would even last for 20 miles? I don't think so haha.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SileightyManiaSPL:


well, my car runs great actually. i just have problems with vacuum leaks messing up my idle sometimes. the car doesnt seem to run consistently... i think weather plays a big part on how my engine decides to run that day (i.e. - humidity, heat, cold, etc). do you guys with sr20det have the same feeling?

anyway there IS less response out of the sr than the ka because of the turbo... it's not like i mind though.

so i dunno mark... are u trying to say that after doing a swap on a 240sx and doing performance modifications to it, that it will be just as reliable as a 240sx that is maintained well without modification? that's what i meant by reliability & daily driveability, because i don't think that it's true.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
01-05-2002, 08:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
Benson,
I have better "respsonse" on my sr than i do my s14 ka, maybe you don't feel that way because your turbo/exhaust is leaking all the time haha.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's got you there silly 80 man


Demon
Edited part: Hmmm... Silly80Man SPLooge... bukkake style

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Demon ]

**DONOTDELETE**
01-06-2002, 03:09 AM
Heh.

Silly80 Man needs new cashflow more than I do! Go fix your leaking tube! You're splooging all over your Silvia face.

Dood Benson, I thought you swapped your motor by yourself and you just had someone else wire it! Well, I bet it would be easy for you by now. But no edamame for you!

-Edamame Nazi

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-06-2002, 07:39 AM
KA-T for sure is better for street use..cause of the very wide power band....it actually has TORQUE...vs having to rev the piss out of the SR to even get it going.....

the KA-T is better for track use as well...why..cause it has gobs of TORQUE....no matter where you are in the rev band it has torque..vs the SR is very peaky and rev happy...

the SR is silky smooth..but you have to really work it to get any power...the KA-T the power is always there....and from driving the 2 of them there really is no comparison ..torque is what you feel and the KA has lots of it..and low down...though i love the smoothness of the SR....the KA feels like a tractor motor vs the SR in smoothness..

**DONOTDELETE**
01-06-2002, 08:34 AM
i think it all depends on what your definition of "daily driving" is as well... for me it consists of constant lead footing and ensuring that all hondaboyz understand the meaning of SR power.. it doesnt matter what you get SR or KA-T..just get boost and blast the competition...enuf said...

and fix your bloody exhaust leak!!!!!!

**DONOTDELETE**
01-06-2002, 09:05 AM
Enter Neurotoxic with yet another dumbass question http://www.freshalloy.com/

I've read that the peak torque of the SR is something like 202 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpm. And the KA is 160 ft-lbs @ 4400 rpm. Could anyone tell me how the KA can have more low-end torque than the SR? I just don't get it... Sorry http://www.freshalloy.com/

blacksr
01-06-2002, 09:47 AM
i think he means ka+t has more torque than sr.

blacksr
01-06-2002, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
KA-T for sure is better for street use..cause of the very wide power band....it actually has TORQUE...vs having to rev the piss out of the SR to even get it going.....

the KA-T is better for track use as well...why..cause it has gobs of TORQUE....no matter where you are in the rev band it has torque..vs the SR is very peaky and rev happy...

the SR is silky smooth..but you have to really work it to get any power...the KA-T the power is always there....and from driving the 2 of them there really is no comparison ..torque is what you feel and the KA has lots of it..and low down...though i love the smoothness of the SR....the KA feels like a tractor motor vs the SR in smoothness..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

have you driven an sr powered car? it is hard to believe you would feel this way if you have. the motor is not peaky and you don't need to rev the piss out of it to get power. it has plenty of torque and low end power for daily use. one doesn't need to "really work it to get any power". how much power did you dyno at again? and with a fully built motor? iirc it is something not too high like maybe what an sr gets with intake, full exhaust and front mount. basically, i believe everything negative you said about the sr is false. you are way off.

not to take anything away from the ka though. i'm not saying either is better because i have both in the garage. just need a car for the ka. i love that motor.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-06-2002, 10:19 AM
All right. So basicaly, the SR is, without any doubt, more powerful and has more torque than a NA KA, right? So if I would try an SR powered 240, I suppose I would be impressed.... I ask, cause I just love the low end torque of the KA, but if there's more in the SR, I could be interested in the swap....

BensonLovesDrifting
01-06-2002, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
Benson,
There is less response with the SR because of the turbo?! whaaat? I have better "respsonse" on my sr than i do my s14 ka, maybe you don't feel that way because your turbo/exhaust is leaking all the time haha.
And also, when you say that a KA will be more reliable than a SR with mods, I never said that. If you look at the originial question that started the topic...

"Which engine would be better as a daily driver? Assuming they are both running somewhere in the 13's. Which will be more reliable?"

That was the question. Running 13's on KA will require either turbo (most popular form of upgrading on KA) or NOS or a fully built 13:1 compression N/A KA, which is highly unlikely. SO with his question, I stated that I feel that the SR20DET would be better for reliability, because after all, it is a factory engine, built for turbo, and it doesn't take much to get it into the 13's. With just exhaust, down pipe, and air filter an SR will be in the 13's. Those aren't going to hurt your daily reliability AT ALL. But I also said the KA would be reliable AS WELL, with a quality turbo kit, and a properly tuned set up. It depends on the how many miles are on the KA though. It all comes down to personal preference. Take a look at Ken's S13, now if you threw a turbo kit on his KA, you think it would even last for 20 miles? I don't think so haha.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah i didn't read that "13's" part. oops! well then i agree that the daily driveability would have to depend on the condition of the ka.

what i meant by response is the instant response in the lower rpms (which is what i use while daily driving...). if youre racing at higher rpms, well obviously that's a different story with a turbo. maybe i just misunderstand this term "daily driving".

btw, i did some "track" driving last night and my turbo decided to stay on this time! and my car didn't overheat! hahah! what a miracle.

alex... i didn't do the swap by myself. i did the swap with the guys at v-spec performance.

BensonLovesDrifting
01-06-2002, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:

Edited part: Hmmm... Silly80Man SPLooge... bukkake style
[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Demon ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

porn?

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-06-2002, 05:53 PM
Well, it better be. It has atleast 50hp advantage over a NA KA.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Neurotoxic:
All right. So basicaly, the SR is, without any doubt, more powerful and has more torque than a NA KA, right? So if I would try an SR powered 240, I suppose I would be impressed.... I ask, cause I just love the low end torque of the KA, but if there's more in the SR, I could be interested in the swap....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if you try a KA+T powered 240SX, you would be just as impressed.

To hit the 300rwhp mark cost about about the same with either path. Again, it's preference. SR is not a super motor, neither is the KA. Its a matter of dealing with what's available and making the best of it.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-06-2002, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacksr:



have you driven an sr powered car? it is hard to believe you would feel this way if you have. the motor is not peaky and you don't need to rev the piss out of it to get power. it has plenty of torque and low end power for daily use. one doesn't need to "really work it to get any power". how much power did you dyno at again? and with a fully built motor? iirc it is something not too high like maybe what an sr gets with intake, full exhaust and front mount. basically, i believe everything negative you said about the sr is false. you are way off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I reiterate... my favorite are the people who talk **** about the SR20, without having ever even driven one. My favorite favorite are the ones who haven't even seen one, and still feel that they are qualified to spew the ****. I'm sure adam hutch has seen, and maybe driven an SR20, but his statements are still funny nevertheless. Yeah, you HAVE to rev the piss out of an SR20 to get any real power. You suuuuuuure do.

Demon

HyperTek
01-06-2002, 06:45 PM
Your either a ford or chevy man, well in this case, your either a sr or ka man (or woman)

I think its all personal perference.

I'll just go for my 13b into s13 thank you very much!! (jk, I wish......)1.3 liters!!

BensonLovesDrifting
01-07-2002, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:


I reiterate... my favorite are the people who talk **** about the SR20, without having ever even driven one. My favorite favorite are the ones who haven't even seen one, and still feel that they are qualified to spew the ****. I'm sure adam hutch has seen, and maybe driven an SR20, but his statements are still funny nevertheless. Yeah, you HAVE to rev the piss out of an SR20 to get any real power. You suuuuuuure do.

Demon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if i rev the piss out of my sr20, my 11 year old car's interior starts to rattle and fall apart.

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 01:12 AM
From a FA.com member's preference list:

I prefer to have a SR20DET car for the odd days of the month, and a KA24DET car for the even days of the month.

-alex

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SileightyManiaSPL:

alex... i didn't do the swap by myself. i did the swap with the guys at v-spec performance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am assuming you're responding to Gunner1 when you said this, not me?

-alex

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 01:33 AM
302 v8

BensonLovesDrifting
01-07-2002, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:


I am assuming you're responding to Gunner1 when you said this, not me?

-alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, too many alexs...

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 02:16 AM
For a 13 second ka or sr, you don't need to lower your compression to boost that high do you? If not, then lag won't be much of an issue.

Daily driving characteristics will be determined by the characteristics of the engine - the 2.0 dohc and the 2.4 sohc/dohc. Both should be fine since you won't be accelerating hard often anyways.

I haven't heard much if anything about either engine having problems anyways... besides the timing chain on the s13 ka's. So both seem to be pretty bulletproof engines if you take care of it.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 02:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tekryder:
Your either a ford or chevy man, well in this case, your either a sr or ka man (or woman)


I think its all personal perference.


I'll just go for my 13b into s13 thank you very much!! (jk, I wish......)1.3 liters!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's ALL about the mopar!

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 02:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tim:
I haven't heard much if anything about either engine having problems anyways... besides the timing chain on the s13 ka's. So both seem to be pretty bulletproof engines if you take care of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Timing chain problem on the KA's are only a problem if the chain guide breaks and jams elsewhere inside the engine.

-alex

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 06:38 AM
ahh ha.. a little KA-T bashing here....yeah the best so far i have been able to lay down is 238rwhp and 255ftlbs at 11-12psi...but then again i am reporting the progress of my TUNING sessions..these are just preliminary tests, its not like i am building a dyno queen..these are power levels that the car runs on all the time...i have no doubt that this built KA-T will lay down 400rwhp+ numbers...it will happen just for bragging rights alone http://www.freshalloy.com/

next year once i get my fuel issues worked out..and the bugs..just for the SR folks..i will lay a DYNO QUEEN pass down...at 20psi and with a 70shot of NOS on top...if those numbers really matter? most of the silly dyno numbers cars produce do not run them at that level all the time..so whats the point?

but the SR cannot beat the torque of the KA-T ...its as simple as that...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blacksr:


have you driven an sr powered car? it is hard to believe you would feel this way if you have. the motor is not peaky and you don't need to rev the piss out of it to get power. it has plenty of torque and low end power for daily use. one doesn't need to "really work it to get any power". how much power did you dyno at again? and with a fully built motor? iirc it is something not too high like maybe what an sr gets with intake, full exhaust and front mount. basically, i believe everything negative you said about the sr is false. you are way off.

not to take anything away from the ka though. i'm not saying either is better because i have both in the garage. just need a car for the ka. i love that motor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 06:48 AM
and we were talking about street driving...would you rather leave it in 4th gear and just stomp on it...or have to shift to 3rd? thats the difference between SR and KA-T

frankly after driving a SR..i was not impressed...other than the smoothness of the engine and the high revs...though the SR was in stock form..it just had no torque down low....i love being able to roll on the throttle in second and just smoke the tires..the SR in stock form is just not that awesome..sorry..now raise the boost and it will pick up...but the torque of the KA-T is so much greater it cannot be compared...

just look at the broad power band...thats what makes cars streetable

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 09:35 AM
If you are smoking your tires in 2nd gear with the power level your car is dynoed at, then you need better tires....

Even at the 300rwhp trim level, I have problems spinning the tires in 2nd. Only time it will spin is at the top of 2nd gear. But then again, I'm running a massive 255 width contact patch.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
i love being able to roll on the throttle in second and just smoke the tires..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 09:46 AM
i am only running 225/50/15.. though they are "r" compounds (toyo proxus ra1)....and my ass is very light..its all stripped out..that might help as well...though the battery in the rear and wing might compensate for that...

i think 230ftlbs torque at 3200rpm is enough to spin the rears in 2nd no? in any case it does... ty you have driven a SR...you know what i am talking about...(lack of torque)

Mark slide squad
01-07-2002, 10:10 AM
Hmm, thats strange, the SR you drove must have been a dog. My SR makes more torque than it does hp. Around 300ft lbs at the motor.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
i am only running 225/50/15.. though they are "r" compounds (toyo proxus ra1)....and my ass is very light..its all stripped out..that might help as well...though the battery in the rear and wing might compensate for that...

i think 230ftlbs torque at 3200rpm is enough to spin the rears in 2nd no? in any case it does... ty you have driven a SR...you know what i am talking about...(lack of torque)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 10:11 AM
I wouldn't say lack of torque. I would better put it as less torque in comparison to the KA+T. It's just a smooth beast where the KA+T is a brutal beast. Like it's been said over and over: Vanilla vs RockyRoad. Which flavor would you like?

Personally for me, I like the path least taken.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
i am only running 225/50/15.. though they are "r" compounds (toyo proxus ra1)....and my ass is very light..its all stripped out..that might help as well...though the battery in the rear and wing might compensate for that...

i think 230ftlbs torque at 3200rpm is enough to spin the rears in 2nd no? in any case it does... ty you have driven a SR...you know what i am talking about...(lack of torque)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 10:40 AM
no way a stock SR is making 300ft lbs....i would guess from teh way it drove 180hp-190hp and 170-180ftlbs

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
Hmm, thats strange, the SR you drove must have been a dog. My SR makes more torque than it does hp. Around 300ft lbs at the motor.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 10:45 AM
i think you summed it up nicely..the SR is smooth as silk and the KA-T is a rough monster...

personally ... i as well like the road least taken....how much fun is just dropping a motor in like the SR (if any motor was gonna be dropped in my car it sure as heck was not gonna be a 2l motor..it would be a small block v8)

the KA-T build up was so much more fun...and so many more fun parts to buy..and things to decide on...and you can say in the end....this motor is really mine...my parts..my design...my choices...

plus it really hauls


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T.Y.:
I wouldn't say lack of torque. I would better put it as less torque in comparison to the KA+T. It's just a smooth beast where the KA+T is a brutal beast. Like it's been said over and over: Vanilla vs RockyRoad. Which flavor would you like?

Personally for me, I like the path least taken.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jhapa
01-07-2002, 10:49 AM
I agree with Tekryder, it's all personal preference. there is always someone that likes KA better then SR and so on. I have read that (i think in FA) that SR can be built for higher H/P with stock internals than KA, i only read.

Mark slide squad
01-07-2002, 11:45 AM
I didn't say my SR was stock. Stock SR makes 200 ftlbs, my SR has stock T25, but running 13-14psi, apexi silvia front mount i/c, greddy downpipe, apex'i n1 turbo catback, & mine's ecu. Your car should make more torque than a stock SR, considering you have a 2.4 over 2.0, and your turbo is a T3/T4. Your hp and torque #'s seem low to me though. If I had that on my SR, I would be making around 380-400hp at the motor with around the same torque. Just look at Greasers SR.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
no way a stock SR is making 300ft lbs....i would guess from teh way it drove 180hp-190hp and 170-180ftlbs

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 11:53 AM
it does make more torque than the SR http://www.freshalloy.com/

but..if you had a SR with say 200rwhp and a KA-T with 200rwhp..then the KA-T is going to be quicker cause its power band is so wide...

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 11:59 AM
i agree..car is not making enough power...we have found the reason...not enough fuel up top...FPR is not getting the boost signal for some reason...so we ran out of fuel..power curve comes up nice and strong..then as the revs climb goes dead flat....but even then this KA-T makes more low end grunt than a hyped up SR...comparing to greasers dyno i think it was over 80ftlbs more torque at 3000rpm..or something silly like that..consider those TEST numbers...still bugs to work out http://www.freshalloy.com/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
I didn't say my SR was stock. Stock SR makes 200 ftlbs, my SR has stock T25, but running 13-14psi, apexi silvia front mount i/c, greddy downpipe, apex'i n1 turbo catback, & mine's ecu. Your car should make more torque than a stock SR, considering you have a 2.4 over 2.0, and your turbo is a T3/T4. Your hp and torque #'s seem low to me though. If I had that on my SR, I would be making around 380-400hp at the motor with around the same torque. Just look at Greasers SR.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 01:00 PM
Hehehe, lets save it for the 2002 240SX convention at the Streets of Willow. It will be lots of fun. And to make it fun, I'm willing to lend my car out to SR folks to flog around the track like I did last year at the AutoX.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
http://www.freshalloy.com/ heheh ... now I did it, a full blown KA vs SR war again, I think this is a weekly thing now, and eventually it will have to come down to a war! We will just have a demolition derby of all 240's, half with KA and half with SR.. who would win the demolition derby? lets put it on pay per view and see haha.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
i will never surrender... ok ty just for you my fellow KA+T driver<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're embarassing TY by trying to associate him with your zaniness

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 01:05 PM
http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 01:17 PM
thats not very nice asad


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
Adam, you're making uninformed statements.

A stock SR has a VERY broad powerband, thanks to the small turbo that spools quickly.

I say you just keep your mouth shut and your mind open for a while. You might learn something.

Asad

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.freshalloy.com/

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
thats not very nice asad
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adam, please go do this:

Take a stock SR20DE power/torque curve, overlap it with a comparable KA24DE power/torque curve, and you can see that the two motors make very good power throughout the entire powerband. Yes, the KA may make more torque (it's supposed to with .4l more displacement!), but the SR wins out with a superior top-end.

Turbocharged cars basically have the same power curve as their N/A counterparts, minus the sudden surge of the turbo spooling. SR's can put out tremendous amounts of torque, much more than you'd expect.

-alex

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 01:37 PM
i don't have that graph...can someone post it...

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 01:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
this reminds me of our race series..with the honda s2000 introduction..everyone was afraid that it was going to be a class killer..this and that blah.. blah.. 240hp ..blah.. blah..but as it turned out it was a ***** on the track cause it had no torque..it was getting(and is) its ass kicked by much less powerfull(hp) cars..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course the S2000 would suck ass..

At Streets of Willow back in July 2001, I ran a full 5 seconds faster than *any* of the 5 S2000's that were at the track. That's me with my then-mostly-stock KA24DE...

The S2000 needs a fast track with minimal slow corners to take advantage of its gearing and peaky powerband. On a course that requires anything below 3rd gear, it'll be slow. You can't make the comparison between the S2000 and a SR20-powered car. Comparing the F20C engine to the SR20 engine is like comparing apples to oranges. Everything built on the F20C engine is designed to REV, REV, and REV. The SR wasn't built with that in mind.

-alex

duncan351
01-07-2002, 01:41 PM
I'm not getting involved in that debate between Asad and Adam. But I love my KA+T daily driven. Soon to be KAT. Hehe http://www.freshalloy.com/

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
i don't have that graph...can someone post it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would hardly call these dyno charts "weak":
http://www.se-r.net/car_info/dyno/others.html

Compared to how a KA dynos, the low-end loss is offset by the superior top-end. http://home.earthlink.net/~mav1178/Images/Cars/Dyno/BaselineDyno.jpg

-alex

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:


I think you're embarassing TY by trying to associate him with your zaniness<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can anyone embarass T.Y. when he's zany enough to get www.tyracing.com? (http://www.tyracing.com?) http://www.freshalloy.com/

-alex

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 02:02 PM
Enough said!

http://www.freshalloy.com/images/imported/2002/05/11.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:


How can anyone embarass T.Y. when he's zany enough to get www.tyracing.com? (http://www.tyracing.com?) http://www.freshalloy.com/

-alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: T.Y. ]

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 02:29 PM
Haha......TY you remember us having these conversations that Adam and Mark are. Snifff sniff. i do.

now enough of that......Adam; at a road course with me driving, i never was out of full boost (below 4000rpm). my car is asleep until 4000rpm as alot of people know. I built my car like that cuz i like it like that. Just because a car doesnt have any LOW END torque doesnt mean it makes no torque. If the motor is to make low end torque its a given that it will die out. My car makes 300 something ft/lbs at the wheels. given its at 4300rpm but you low end torque guys are the only ones that care. The turbo i sized up will allow adequate airflow to 8000rpm and 25psi. Operation powerband from 4000-8000. Thats pretty damn wide to me.

its a drivers mistake if he/she is out of a corner at 3000 or 3500rpm. or drivers requirement if the motors redline is only 6000rpm. this shouldnt be which one is faster......they are both fast. Someones opinion about a motor is just that THEIR own opinion. Now when people start to argue about opinions is when it gets hairy.

So place the facts on the table. You'll end up where me and TY have in the past. Each driver happy with their own car and the ability to agree to disagree.

Me.... well i think i'm the only one to build/own both motors. Granted the KAT only lasted 1 week but that was my fault. I LOVE the SR. I was even crazy enough to not believe in the SR and put it in only to get me out to nopi and give me a car to drive while i build the ka for 400rwhp. Never happend, cuz the SR gives me such a addrenaline rush that the KA never could. My opionions of the KA is just like everyone says.

Low end stump puller
Low reving/noisy/vibration motor

Rocky road or Vanilla. They both are ice cream right? (quote copyrighted and stolen from tyracing.com without permission) http://www.freshalloy.com/

I like the SR over the KA. Thats me. I'm not saying i'm faster than a comparable KA equipped car. Ty and i never ran, and chris's car was wayyyyy to heavy for our runs to be fair.

to each his own. i'm rambling and not sounding constructive

quest
01-07-2002, 03:07 PM
hmmmm... I'd forget all that dyno chart and bench racing stuff.... it's the real world "feel" of the two that matters, but both are fun. If you are cool with the ka, stick with it. If you're *really* curious, there are enough examples scattered about the country for you to arrange a demo, huh ?
Remember, you don't need high revs at all to make power with a turbo motor - you can size it accordingly. I say this because I know my 92 was a bit too rough for my liking in the upper rpms (I went ca18det). I know of quite a few 10 and 11sec daily driven 2.3 ford that redline around 6k and will pound the sh&^% outta turbo hi rev SRs. Know some fast starions too. GNs top off at 55-5700.... all these examples don't have high HP, but they sure do get the job done.
If you get ideas of owning a "monster" street turbo car, one turbo KA has posted 10.8s quarter with his recipee. I've seen no SR match it

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 03:35 PM
To my understanding of this subject it is ALL about PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Do you enjoy having a motor that is a Torque Beast or a Rev Beast? If you prefer Torque, then stay with the KA or go RB (20/25/26), if you like the Revvy engines then you are leaning more towards an SR or CA engine (or you can be different and just pull an engine from a completely different car maker as the new engine for your car). Personally, I would be happy to be under boost and would love to check out all the different types of cars powered by these different engines to actually see which is really the route I would like to go with. To me, I am waiting for Greddy to come out with their (Supposedly) Carb legal Turbo kit. Since I live in CA, I actually do care about passing emissions laws.

Tim '95 SE

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 03:39 PM
Oh, sorry, forgot to answer the original question. As for which would be the more reliable daily driver, that depends on how well kept either engine is. If you have a High Mileage KA, but then rebuild it for the turbo, then it is a brand new engine, therefore it SHOULD be reliable ASSUMING it was done PROPERLY. If you get an SR20DET even with low mileage and just slap it in the car without balancing/blueprinting/ throughly checking the engine out, then you are not fully certain as to what condition the engine is in. SO even with lower miles than the KA, it MIGHT NOT be in BETTER condition. Daily driving depends on how much attention to details you put into your car.

Tim '95 SE

Cheap, Fast, Reliable - Pick any 2 of the 3

01-07-2002, 04:44 PM
You're right, it's not nice. But I think you just take the "KA superiority" thing too far. It's not a black and white issue like you make it out to be, and your mind seems closed to the facts of the debate. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the attitude...so kick back and read...and learn.

I want some ice cream.

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
thats not very nice asad
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 04:44 PM
If given the choice and money, I'd forget about the KA and the SR and go for a 2JZ-GTE. Bigger, smoother, and thus better. After hanging about with Supra guys where on one car, at the lowest possible boost setting of 1.0bar, the car puts down 550rwhp.

Pure sickness!!!

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 04:50 PM
hmmmm, that sounds good! I'd like some Chocolate Chip ice cream!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
I want some ice cream.

Asad<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mav1178
01-07-2002, 04:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T.Y.:
hmmmm, that sounds good! I'd like some Chocolate Chip ice cream!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Screw you!

It's all about Baskin Robbins Chocolate Fudge ice cream.

mmmmm sugar mmmmm http://www.freshalloy.com/

-alex

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 04:58 PM
hi mav....
i was looking over those charts and there is a good comparison there..the turbocharged dyno chart.....he was running at 14.5psi....
http://www.se-r.net/car_info/dyno/jeff_naeyaert/JEFFRUN.jpg

here is the last KA+T dyno chart that i did...at 11-12psi http://son240sx.hn.org/adam/dynorun2.jpg

so to have a back to back comparison...giving the sr motor a min 2.5psi advantage..here is what it works out to..

kat 3k 4k 5k 6k 7k
hp 120 180 220 238 na
tq 200 240 240 210 na

sr
hp 75 170 215 225 235
tq 130 220 225 200 175

diff (in favour of KA-T)
hp 45 10 5 13
tq 70 20 15 10


the real question is whether or not the sr extra 1000rpm will help it? that depends on the gearing....but i would imagine that the extra 1000rpm that the sr has over the kat would not make up for the losses shown above

so i am not sure what this proves? anyone?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:


I would hardly call these dyno charts "weak":
http://www.se-r.net/car_info/dyno/others.html

Compared to how a KA dynos, the low-end loss is offset by the superior top-end. http://home.earthlink.net/~mav1178/Images/Cars/Dyno/BaselineDyno.jpg

-alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 05:00 PM
Hey Alex,

Sorry dude! You are not my type! http://www.freshalloy.com/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:
Screw you!

-alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 05:07 PM
so tell us then.. which one is more a daily driver and why...i am ready to learn...why not add something to this debate ...cause once we define "what a good daily driver" is..there is only 1 motor that is correct..depends on the definition...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
You're right, it's not nice. But I think you just take the "KA superiority" thing too far. It's not a black and white issue like you make it out to be, and your mind seems closed to the facts of the debate. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the attitude...so kick back and read...and learn.

I want some ice cream.

Asad

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: ADAM HUTCHINSON ]

s13SRmadness
01-07-2002, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
You're right, it's not nice. But I think you just take the "KA superiority" thing too far. It's not a black and white issue like you make it out to be, and your mind seems closed to the facts of the debate. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the attitude...so kick back and read...and learn.

I want some ice cream.

Asad

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

stupid question asad- which do you own, the ka or the sr?

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 05:35 PM
I forgot to answer the question.

Either motor turboed or n/a or supercharged. If correctly setup, no extra maintenance is required. Oil at the same duration, coolant same. Just because you add hp doesnt mean you have to change the oil sooner unless you race the car on a track. I change it when it gets dark brown. i dont refer to mileage.

The only picks i have with my setup is a alternator water pump belt squeel. This is due to KA crank pulley being used for the tec II (long story yada yada) if i had a SR pulley i wouldnt go through belts every 6 months.

The only thing i've done to my car since the installation of the bigger HKS turbo GT3037 is change oil and fix oil return line. I had to switch to metal line the whole way down. To much heat......not designed or installed correctly.

My factory turbo car had a stainless braided line as a return line stock.

Maintenance should only be fluids/belts. Then theres installation maintenance which teaches alot. You change something and it either works or it doesnt.

Final product is only as good as the installation. Car is only good as driver.

Oil changes, oil return line(installation fix), throwing belts(installation fixes), oil leak from valve cover.

these are the only issues i've had with the SR. Alot of them are caused by my installation(you shouldnt have to deal with this)

so basically for my SR the same as any motor KA or whatever, all i've done is change the oil......all this while making 320rwhp@15psi. drag racing for 2 years. Long distance trips to atlanta, Kansas City MO, maryland countless times. All from Va. Rally racing, drifting in the snow, rain, track events. If the motor blew up tomarrow i'd say i'm happy for sure with its results. These are for the SR. The KA was in the car just as long as well. Never touched it besides oil.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 05:40 PM
OK guys I know you are all saying that the fastst sr was the JUN car from over three years ago now(8.8 e.t.), but that car is now in the 8.3 zone and the Turbonetics 200sx (australian sr powered car) Has now run an 8.12!! Of course an automatic! And IS the fastest 4 cylinder w/working-doors and unibody!! (check new copy of SCC ad.)(sorry honda!) And on the track for those who forgot that weight of a car is key, that a 300lb less wight advantage at the track will win every time. NO Iron block, Just Iron sleeves!!

KA LOSES! http://www.freshalloy.com/

95_240
01-07-2002, 05:55 PM
what kind of tbo it Greaser running? I think its an HKS something, does anyone know what turbo size that relates to Turbonetics line. Also are HKS turbos that mch better than Turbonetics?

duncan351
01-07-2002, 06:10 PM
I can honestly say now that my car is tuned properly I have had no more problems. And no more blowing up engines. http://www.freshalloy.com/

I was tracking my car every weekend with right at 120K miles. I never broke the motor, Thank God. I'm now breaking everything else it seems like. Derick, since ATL, I've gone I'm on my 3rd diff, and burned up one clutch. But I haven't blown my motor!!! http://www.freshalloy.com/

As soon as I replace my clutch, I will be back at the track again.

But second Derick's statement regarding dependabiltiy. As long as everything is install properly, there is almost no maitenance. I'm currently workiing on fixing the wastegate bolts backing out on the Rev hard manifold. I have a few ideas. Will do***ent the results after a months worth of testing.

White_240sx
01-07-2002, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S14SHOCKKER:
but that car is now in the 8.3 zone and the Turbonetics 200sx (australian sr powered car) Has now run an 8.12!! Of course an automatic! And IS the fastest 4 cylinder w/working-doors and unibody!! (check new copy of SCC ad.)(sorry honda!) And on the track for those who forgot that weight of a car is key, that a 300lb less wight advantage at the track will win every time. NO Iron block, Just Iron sleeves!!

KA LOSES! http://www.freshalloy.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well according to the aussie sources, that is an FJ20ET (Iron block http://www.freshalloy.com/).

So the KA AND SR lose! http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/

I salute only for the FJ, despite what Demon says. http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-07-2002, 06:40 PM
try stage 8 fasteners... i had the same problems with turbo bolts and wastegate coming loose multiple times..these special bolts solved the problem...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by duncan351:
I can honestly say now that my car is tuned properly I have had no more problems. And no more blowing up engines. http://www.freshalloy.com/

I was tracking my car every weekend with right at 120K miles. I never broke the motor, Thank God. I'm now breaking everything else it seems like. Derick, since ATL, I've gone I'm on my 3rd diff, and burned up one clutch. But I haven't blown my motor!!! http://www.freshalloy.com/

As soon as I replace my clutch, I will be back at the track again.

But second Derick's statement regarding dependabiltiy. As long as everything is install properly, there is almost no maitenance. I'm currently workiing on fixing the wastegate bolts backing out on the Rev hard manifold. I have a few ideas. Will do***ent the results after a months worth of testing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 08:26 PM
Also for comparison sake. Only maintenance work on my car is the interval oil changes and the occasional degreasing of the PS pump fluid. My car has seen numerous track events with brake pad changes and brake caliper rebuilds as maintenance for the track events.

White_240sx
01-07-2002, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ryan Waiz:
what kind of tbo it Greaser running? I think its an HKS something, does anyone know what turbo size that relates to Turbonetics line. Also are HKS turbos that mch better than Turbonetics?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe he runs a 3037. Turbonetics = Garrett...HKS = Garrett...thus...Turbonetics = HKS(well not quite, but close enough http://www.freshalloy.com/).

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2002, 08:41 PM
Actually:

Honeywell TurboCharging Systems aka Garrett Turbo system.

Use to be AlliedSignal TurboCharging system, but AlliedSignal bought out Honeywell and retain the Honeywell name. Was going to become GE Turbocharging system, but the Europeans put a stop to that.

Garrett Turbo system is the OEM of turbos for many automanufacturers. HKS, Turbonetics, FastTrax, etc are distributor of Garrett Turbocharger products. HKS has sufficient pull to get their logo casted on the parts.

... and on and on and on...

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 09:33 PM
white240sx says
Well according to the aussie sources, that is an FJ20ET (Iron block ).

hahahaha ya FJ20's rule J/k but yes FJ20's were serious engines . Nissan did not run them in their race trucks for nothing.

Ok SR or KA ? Well I have a low mileage KAde so I am going KADE+T . If it had high mileage I would probably go CA18DET. Its a killer motor and so far you guys have all but ignored it. Fact is it has a better bore x stroke IMHO and it has 8 lobe cams ehhhhmmm Not 4 lobe with rocker assembly like a SR. Ok now I have gone and done it . http://www.freshalloy.com/ have at it guys I am going out for Ice Cream hahahahahah http://www.freshalloy.com/

01-07-2002, 09:39 PM
KA, and I'm building a turbo kit for it.

Surprising?

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s13SRmadness:

stupid question asad- which do you own, the ka or the sr?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

01-07-2002, 09:45 PM
Did I ever say I was qualified to answer the question? I've only ever driven one SR20DET-powered car in my life, for about 5 minutes and the tach didn't work so I wasn't going to push it. And I've never driven a KA24DET car...so I don't have anything to add that would be constructive. So I'm staying out of it.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "good daily driver" needs a definition...because you can't define it. Some people are willing to put up with extra lag on the street, while some people want immediate response. It's all a matter of preference, and since you can't define what "good daily driver" means, you can't make claims so bold as to say "this engine is better than the other, that's that, end of story".

This forum is best used as a place to exchange information, not beat other people over the head with your opinions.

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
so tell us then.. which one is more a daily driver and why...i am ready to learn...why not add something to this debate ...cause once we define "what a good daily driver" is..there is only 1 motor that is correct..depends on the definition...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: asad137 ]

**DONOTDELETE**
01-07-2002, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by White240sx:


I salute only for the FJ, despite what Demon says. http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope that by this time next year, I will have you saluting the VH45DE!
That 8.12 aussie car is a tube frame car if I remember correctly. Someone should know for sure...

Demon

brtecson
01-07-2002, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:


Adam, please go do this:

Take a stock SR20DE power/torque curve, overlap it with a comparable KA24DE power/torque curve, and you can see that the two motors make very good power throughout the entire powerband. Yes, the KA may make more torque (it's supposed to with .4l more displacement!), but the SR wins out with a superior top-end.

Turbocharged cars basically have the same power curve as their N/A counterparts, minus the sudden surge of the turbo spooling. SR's can put out tremendous amounts of torque, much more than you'd expect.

-alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly, I've never drove a turbo 240. Rode in sr-t and ka-t cars, but never rode in them during a race, so I'm not the one that should judge either engine. I have to agree with alex, though. I have a n/a sr powered sentra and the powerband is suprisingly broad and the torque is plentiful and buttery-smooth. Even though it was 140hp stock, I was still beating civic si's stock. Well, I took out the poower steering and put in a short shifter. If it could beat out a car with big advantages (20hp, better tires, less wear and tear on the car, lsd I think too), there has to be a reason for it.
After I/h/e/ and some 256 tomei cams, it still had even a little more torque and monsterous high end hp.
So, i'm not for sure, but i think it is likely that if the sr-t is stock, modified the right way, it should have plenty of low end torque.

Just my .02
-btrecson

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-08-2002, 12:07 AM
Adam, when will you start using the KA+T convention? It's not like we minus a turbo on the KA. Or, we can be confusing and use KAT for built turbo motors, and KA+T for bolt-on turbos.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
KA-T<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-08-2002, 12:09 AM
i will never surrender... ok ty just for you my fellow KA+T driver

Mark slide squad
01-08-2002, 12:11 AM
Faster how? it all depends on a lot of factors, like size of the turbo (lag), exhaust back pressure, driver, etc. I don't think you have properly experienced an SR20, and you would be quite suprised when you drive one that is properly tuned. With the stock T25, the SR has a broad power band. Lets do this Adam, if you ever come down here, or vice versa, we will adjust our boost until we both have 200 rwhp and then we can race in a straight line, and on a road course. I think the SR would come out on top. http://www.freshalloy.com/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
it does make more torque than the SR http://www.freshalloy.com/

but..if you had a SR with say 200rwhp and a KA-T with 200rwhp..then the KA-T is going to be quicker cause its power band is so wide...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-08-2002, 12:25 AM
if a 1 car has 200hp and 200ftlbs max at 30% of its power band....(SR)

and another car has 200hp and 200ftlbs max at 60% of its power band...(KA+T)

who is gonna win ......its who can apply the most power to the ground over a period of time...simple as that...

or if you like..you might want to go for a wick to wick battle...(meaning boost gauges are taped up..and boost is slowly raised and power is increased until the engine cannot
1=make any more power
2=blows up
3=driver says enough http://www.freshalloy.com/

then the strongest motor will win..and hp/ftlbs per PSI becomes irelevant (sp)

i would love to go out for a track session against a SR...with equal peak horsepower and torque.... the corners would be the best..as the KA+T pulls away http://www.freshalloy.com/

this reminds me of our race series..with the honda s2000 introduction..everyone was afraid that it was going to be a class killer..this and that blah.. blah.. 240hp ..blah.. blah..but as it turned out it was a ***** on the track cause it had no torque..it was getting(and is) its ass kicked by much less powerfull(hp) cars..

Mav1178
01-08-2002, 12:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
so i am not sure what this proves? anyone?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what it proves?

It proves that you cannot compare apples to oranges.

If there was a completely "stock" KA turbo setup that can be compared, that should be the basis for comparison, NOT your setup. Do you run stock injectors? OE ECU program? T25 turbo?

If you had, say, 370cc injectors, and a T3/T4 turbo, and a JWT program, and the SE-R had the same setup, then a comparison would be somewhat valid.

My whole point of linking the SE-R dyno charts was to show you that the SR20DET has much more torque than we would expect from a much smaller engine (vs. ours). Nothing more. If you want to go argue about numbers, the game will never stop because you will never be able to find two cars exactly alike to compare dyno numbers. If and when you do, call me, I'd like to see the comparison JUST FOR COMPARISON'S SAKE, NOTHING ELSE.

And I don't want any more ice cream. Obviously my choice of ice cream would always be criticised by other people.

-alex

01-08-2002, 12:35 AM
Adam, you're making uninformed statements.

A stock SR has a VERY broad powerband, thanks to the small turbo that spools quickly.

I say you just keep your mouth shut and your mind open for a while. You might learn something.

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
if a 1 car has 200hp and 200ftlbs max at 30% of its power band....(SR)

and another car has 200hp and 200ftlbs max at 60% of its power band...(KA+T)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mark slide squad
01-08-2002, 12:38 AM
An SR with 200 rwhp with stock T25 will be making around 220 at the wheels of torque. I had full torque at 3600rpm. Peak hp was at 6500. That is more than the 30% you were talking about. As Demon always says, people that have ..
A) never driven an SR
B) never ridden in one
C) never seen one in person...
just don't know until they experience it. The SR revs much more freely than the KA 12 valve, and is way smoother. I still think I could take you. If the SR has such a small power band, then how do all those drifters in Japan get those tires spinning? How did Jun run a 8.8 in the 1/4 mile? http://www.freshalloy.com/ heheh ... now I did it, a full blown KA vs SR war again, I think this is a weekly thing now, and eventually it will have to come down to a war! We will just have a demolition derby of all 240's, half with KA and half with SR.. who would win the demolition derby? lets put it on pay per view and see haha.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM HUTCHINSON:
if a 1 car has 200hp and 200ftlbs max at 30% of its power band....(SR)

and another car has 200hp and 200ftlbs max at 60% of its power band...(KA+T)

who is gonna win ......its who can apply the most power to the ground over a period of time...simple as that...

or if you like..you might want to go for a wick to wick battle...(meaning boost gauges are taped up..and boost is slowly raised and power is increased until the engine cannot
1=make any more power
2=blows up
3=driver says enough http://www.freshalloy.com/

then the strongest motor will win..and hp/ftlbs per PSI becomes irelevant (sp)

i would love to go out for a track session against a SR...with equal peak horsepower and torque.... the corners would be the best..as the KA+T pulls away http://www.freshalloy.com/

this reminds me of our race series..with the honda s2000 introduction..everyone was afraid that it was going to be a class killer..this and that blah.. blah.. 240hp ..blah.. blah..but as it turned out it was a ***** on the track cause it had no torque..it was getting(and is) its ass kicked by much less powerfull(hp) cars..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mav1178
01-08-2002, 12:54 AM
And Adam, you want to know something else?

You can't compare a turbocharged KA24DE to a SR20DET.

SR20DET came with 8.5CR.

KA24DE turbo are turbocharged on a 9.5CR. Even your SOHC would have 9.0CR.

Apples to oranges...

-alex

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 01:28 AM
if the sr20det is an orange, and the ka24det is an apple, you should pass on both and go for a watermelon. get a rb26.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 03:53 AM
turbo the ka, IF they were BOTH unreliable, you would at least have readily, cheaply available parts for the ka.

For electrical harnesses, theres nothing more unreliable than messin with it.
dont know much about the sr but i know that they are not anymore detonation immune than the ka and the cylindrs are not stronger because they are siamesed like the ka, so there is no strength advantage of the block. Matter of fact, the ka's block is stronger.
sure you can change the cylndrs if you break some but if you break a cyl theres prob a good chance you'd take the block with it.

power output, they prob make the same with the same psi? weight savings? is how much? worth the swap? want light weight?, get a 3tc

01-08-2002, 05:07 AM
Naw, it's pretty clear that the KA makes the same power with less boost. Due to a number of factors -- typically KA-T's have larger turbos than the stock SR20DET turbo, and, of course, the KA has more displacement.

The flipside is, of course, that you probably can't run as much boost on a (stock internal) KA as you can a stock-internal SR.

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 240hp:
power output, they prob make the same with the same psi?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 10:51 AM
A Watermelon!!???hahaha,BRAVO!!..or we could step outside of the Nissan/fruit zone and put an Eggplant 4G63 in the mix.
Submitted for your consideration,
a readily available 4g63 (1st gen) can be had for MUCH less than any of those engines(KA-T,RB,SR) The money saved can be put toward making the tranny fit the engine...ANd motor mounts aren't THAT hard.
There is ample space to fit it.
Reasons to do it?
1)Revs higher than the KA(I know guys that are running theirs to 8500 on a regular basis)
2)Makes more torque than the SR
3)Cheaper than turboing KA or purchasing SR and tranny etc etc.
4)Performance parts are easy/cheaper to find.

Before the 2.4 crowd jumps all down my throat with the big-bore arguements...you can get/make a stroker-big bore 2.3 4g63/4g64 hybrid.
Hows that for a feasible, but still different way to do things?
ROB http://www.freshalloy.com/

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-08-2002, 11:01 AM
I would rather have a duran. The king of all fruits.

I would like to see them apples, oranges, watermelon, papayas, eggplants, survive a bout with a Duran...

For those who are fruit-challenged, Duran is a fruit found in SE Asia. It's the size of a small human head with lots of short spikes. The outer shell is fairly tough. Many folks have gotten injured from having a duran fall on their heads when walking under a duran tree. Also, never park under a duran tree for obvious reasons.

My mom once had two papayas (SE Asian variety, about 2~3 times the size of the ones from Hawaii), and a duran in the trunk of her MKI Honda Accord, and was driving on a seaside road that consisted of many turns. By the time we got home, there was not much left of the Papayas.

Also, to open a Duran, better get that cleaver, and someone who knows how to open one. If cut properly, the fruit will open up to sections to reveal the morsels inside. To many, the smell will instantly turn them away. (Smells like sewer gas). The meat of the fruit is awesome for those who can get past the smell. Personally, I like Duran flavored ice cream.

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: T.Y. ]

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-08-2002, 11:05 AM
is that a spiky type fruit? that i see in the store...

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 01:16 PM
Mav, not trying to (really) annoy anyone.
I'm a little short on funds at the moment(what else is new).
As for the projects other "technicalities" I'm trying to figure it out as I appropriate the bucks (I'm thinking that I should figure out the $ first).
It would be pretty expensive to get a KA-T and turbo it...almost as expensive as SR and all the trappings. I already own the engine and even if I sell it, its still cheaper to build another.
Rob http://www.freshalloy.com/

PS.I know it's not a weekend project...but..
http://www.freshalloy.com/

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: McTwist ]

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-08-2002, 01:27 PM
ummm sewer gas fruit..is it yellow orange in color? (the fruit not the gas)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T.Y.:
I would rather have a duran. The king of all fruits.

I would like to see them apples, oranges, watermelon, papayas, eggplants, survive a bout with a Duran...

For those who are fruit-challenged, Duran is a fruit found in SE Asia. It's the size of a small human head with lots of short spikes. The outer shell is fairly tough. Many folks have gotten injured from having a duran fall on their heads when walking under a duran tree. Also, never park under a duran tree for obvious reasons.

My mom once had two papayas (SE Asian variety, about 2~3 times the size of the ones from Hawaii), and a duran in the trunk of her MKI Honda Accord, and was driving on a seaside road that consisted of many turns. By the time we got home, there was not much left of the Papayas.

Also, to open a Duran, better get that cleaver, and someone who knows how to open one. If cut properly, the fruit will open up to sections to reveal the morsels inside. To many, the smell will instantly turn them away. (Smells like sewer gas). The meat of the fruit is awesome for those who can get past the smell. Personally, I like Duran flavored ice cream.

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: T.Y. ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-08-2002, 01:30 PM
Yes, and you don't have to quote the whole message.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 01:40 PM
I remember trying that fruit in thailand. T.Y. doesn't do it justice by explaining the smell. It is one hell of a smell!! And one hell of an aquired taste http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 02:57 PM
McDs: You really should just start putting that motor into the car already. There's no need to convince anyone else here to do it cuz only 2 or 3 others really would want to. That's like if I tried telling people that the best motor to put into a 240 shell is a mildly-worked 316 that we got sitting in my friend's garage. It's pushed a 4000lb+ car into the 12s, imagine what it'd do in a 240... AND it's even easier to install than a 4G63... blah
BTW, it's durian... my father used to have to kneel on them as a kid when he was punished for whatever reason. Coroporal punishment kicks ass

Demon

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-08-2002, 03:11 PM
To me, it's Liu Lian! hehehe Durian or Duran is just depending on the language.

I'm so used to calling it by it's Malay name, hence the Malay spelling. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

s13SRmadness
01-08-2002, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
KA, and I'm building a turbo kit for it.

Surprising?

Asad

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i feel let down.
http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/ http://www.freshalloy.com/
you're probably the only ka owner that isn't ka crazy. is the choice due to price, convenience, or do you really believe that the ka is the superior motor? http://www.freshalloy.com/

01-08-2002, 06:50 PM
Mostly convenience...it's easier for me, working alone, to bolt on a turbo kit
rather than do a full swap.

As far as which motor is superior...well, we've got 3 pages of debate on that topic http://www.freshalloy.com/ I will say that I didn't like the idea of losing displacement http://www.freshalloy.com/ Plus, I think the KA suits my personality better -- low-revving and laid back, with my mind on my money and my money on my mind (if you can call 7000 RPM "low"...which it only is in the import world).

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s13SRmadness:

you're probably the only ka owner that isn't ka crazy. is the choice due to price, convenience, or do you really believe that the ka is the superior motor? http://www.freshalloy.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 07:09 PM
I have to add this, I have a both RB26 and SR20 motivated cars. I would have to say the SR20 has a lot of torque down low, cosidering what it is, and very daily drivable. The Skyline is not a good daily driver. i often need to rev it to 4 grand around town, almost nothing down low. The SR just kicks it, with out getting into the boost. There are major factors involved with the daily drivability in the GTR however. The car has bigger turbos, and a triple plate clutch/ the SR is stock clutch, stock turbo, boost up. the cars are nearly the same size, but the Skyline does weigh more...anyways....
Eric

PS the KA is torquey, I have driven NA ones, but down low, I don't think there is much of a difference between the two. As it was mentioned before, you cannot compare a KA VS SR unless the set up is near identical.

The SR is good, and it's a turbo charged motor, stock.

White_240sx
01-08-2002, 08:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:


I hope that by this time next year, I will have you saluting the VH45DE!
That 8.12 aussie car is a tube frame car if I remember correctly. Someone should know for sure...

Demon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmm...I might like your 383 better... http://www.freshalloy.com/
http://www.amsoil.com/testimonials/ashford.htm
The Amsoil car looks tube framed to me, I also think it runs a 2 speed powerglide.

NOSTALGIC_HERO
01-08-2002, 08:34 PM
duran duran rocked..


okay i'll shut up now.

hey, i love guanavana fruit (common in puerto rico) very good!!

daily driven huh? well, i've logged 2029 trouble free miles on my SR so far..
all at stock boost of course (on my pulsar T28)

Mav1178
01-08-2002, 10:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s13SRmadness:

i you're probably the only ka owner that isn't ka crazy. is the choice due to price, convenience, or do you really believe that the ka is the superior motor? http://www.freshalloy.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not KA crazy either.

-alex

KenFuji
01-08-2002, 10:45 PM
i like to eat unripe Persimmon fruit. makes my mouth numm..... bwabwbawbawbabblba....

**DONOTDELETE**
01-08-2002, 11:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by White240sx:



hmmm...I might like your 383 better... http://www.freshalloy.com/
http://www.amsoil.com/testimonials/ashford.htm
The Amsoil car looks tube framed to me, I also think it runs a 2 speed powerglide.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's a full frame car (which is highly doubtful considering the look of the body panels), it's still running big slicks in back. Which still makes the JUN car THE SINGLE MOST impressive import drag racing car to date... STILL.

Demon

Mav1178
01-09-2002, 12:39 AM
Rob, how about you stop telling us about that motor of yours and actually go do something about your little project?

It's not that we don't believe you, we just know from experience that a FWD engine in a RWD chassis takes a lot of money and/or fabrication to make it work. You make it sound like it's a weekend job, when it isn't.

-alex

JonCarson
01-09-2002, 01:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sumabon:


that ****s called jack-fruit right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. I think jack fruit is much smaller and has a smooth yellowish skin....not 100% sure about this though. I've had jack fruit smoothies and they certainly aren't a required taste. They actually taste like those long plastic tube pops that I used to eat when I was a kid. I don't know what those are called but you can buy them at just about any asian foods store. Some of you guys may know what I'm talking about if I say that you can cut off the flattened tip or break them in half at the skinny middle to share with someone. http://www.freshalloy.com/

Durian is big, brown, and medieval looking.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-09-2002, 06:18 AM
hey asad....
i was watching nova last night on gamma bursts...and they said that 2 plumes of gamma rays come out, and that any life in its path would be killed...if there was intellegent life could they just not move away from the burst at a right angle to avoid it? assuming they could do it fast enough? or are these bursts not very directional as they showed on tv?

01-09-2002, 06:23 AM
Nobody really knows what the hell GRB's actually are. There are some theories, but I'm not sure if they predict a uniform explosion, or one that produces a very directed blast of radiation. (GRB's aren't my specific area of interest).

Remember that gamma rays travel at the speed of light...so there's no way you're going to know that a burst occurred until the gamma rays GET to you (because nothing can travel faster than light).

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ADAM H:

i was watching nova last night on gamma bursts...and they said that 2 plumes of gamma rays come out, and that any life in its path would be killed...if there was intellegent life could they just not move away from the burst at a right angle to avoid it? assuming they could do it fast enough? or are these bursts not very directional as they showed on tv?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MI SO FST
01-09-2002, 06:54 AM
Well just remember that the KA comes stock in the US and most people that have the car drive it everyday.

People in japan have the SR20DET stock and I'm sure that people out there drive it everyday too.

I have had my SR for a year with no problems at all, as long as you maintaine the car right, it will be fine.

Thanks,
Art
93 Nissan 240sx (http://www.geocities.com/gforcepowered/240-dragwheels.jpg)
93 Honda Civic HB (http://www.geocities.com/gforcepowered/ss-dragwars.jpg)

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-09-2002, 07:09 AM
yeah that was the big debate...since these things are so far away, they calculated thru red shift one was 9 billion light years away..that they do not know what could generate that much energy for us to even read the burst....it was neat in any case...shows how small we are in the scale of things..


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asad137:
Nobody really knows what the hell GRB's actually are. There are some theories, but I'm not sure if they predict a uniform explosion, or one that produces a very directed blast of radiation. (GRB's aren't my specific area of interest).

Remember that gamma rays travel at the speed of light...so there's no way you're going to know that a burst occurred until the gamma rays GET to you (because nothing can travel faster than light).

Asad

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-09-2002, 08:57 AM
Along with Asad, and Mav1178, I'm not KA crazy either... Only reason I went with the motor was economical value for the money. Thats all.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s13SRmadness:
you're probably the only ka owner that isn't ka crazy. is the choice due to price, convenience, or do you really believe that the ka is the superior motor? http://www.freshalloy.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>