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View Full Version : griffin radiator is it worth it?



cdn_w_sr20
05-02-2005, 11:51 PM
After having the overflow spout on my koyo break off and having to repair it, i'm having doubts about buying another. I need a new radiator for my S15 engine project and well I was deeply considering this rad i saw on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7971878055&catego ry=33602&sspagename=WDVW

It is apparently the same core size and everything of the koyo, has a nice upgraded neck and looks quite decent. Anybody have any opinions on this? Do you think its worth the extra money to go this route?

MATT_BACK_VASS
05-03-2005, 12:44 AM
there was one on a car that previously had a koyo

noticed no gains at all in cooling efficiency. it still overheats quite quickly

cwdmark
05-03-2005, 07:14 AM
you probably overtightened the spout on the koyo. i never heard of one breaking off completely by itself.

cdn_w_sr20
05-03-2005, 08:03 AM
There have been a few people to break the overflow spout off. I was using clampless hose on it actually when it happened. It is because koyo makes the neck of the radiator with ultra thin crapp material.

So what your saying is that the cooling efficiency is pretty much the same right? That is my concern that it is still just as good. I'd prefer some of the upgraded things because i dont want to be repairing a radiator anymore.

For the record, the overflow spout snapped off when i went over a speed bump. It was cold outside which could have contributed, i dunno, it still is wierd.

killjoy
05-03-2005, 08:14 AM
C&R OWNS!

cdn_w_sr20
05-03-2005, 10:16 AM
How much were the radiators they were making for the SR though?

killjoy
05-03-2005, 10:29 AM
Think they are 600-650 but come with a neatly mounted fan, gauge port, is dual pass, etc. Beats a fluidyne or greddy as those are like 500 not counting fan. 600+ sounds like a lot but in reality its about 400 or so for the rad and 200 for the fan....

JimStinksAtDorifto
05-03-2005, 10:49 AM
I have the $190 domestic Griffin and it cools like a mofo. I've never ever seen temps above 95Cand that was stop and go with some wot mixed in. Normally, it sits between 78-85C. I have dual 12" fans but only one runs unless the a/c is on.

cdn_w_sr20
05-03-2005, 10:59 AM
I kinda see this griffin rad as a step betwween the koyo and the fluidyne/greddy so i think i'm gonna try it out. The seller states they are identical in size to the koyo rads but just have better construction which i can believe. Some of the material on the koyo rad is super thin. I am kind of curious if these are made by griffin or if it just the core though.

I mean it has griffins stamp on the top radiator end tank so it makes me think that they are actually manufactured by griffin.

BlackBomber
05-03-2005, 11:22 AM
you probably overtightened the spout on the koyo. i never heard of one breaking off completely by itself.



my buddy broke mine and it had nothing to do with over tightening. He was simply try to pull the hose off of the neck and it snapped right off. piece of junk. Of course, it ended up stronger because I had a CNC machined aluminum C&R neck put on it, but sold that for the complete C&R dual-pass setup, which I love.

JimStinksAtDorifto
05-03-2005, 12:12 PM
Some of the material on the koyo rad is super thin. I am kind of curious if these are made by griffin or if it just the core though.



Griffin does make model specific rads so it is probably a Griffin 100%. My Griffin has nice construction, no noticeable poor welds or thin metal that I've ever spotted. I've had it for over 2 years on my SR and no issues whatsoever. Plus, like I said, it cools great even with big HKS fmic.

cdn_w_sr20
05-03-2005, 09:09 PM
No I know for certain that i'll never buy another koyo rad unless they upgrade the production of the tanks and the neck. the neck itself makes me wonder, it isn't even welded in, it looked like they used some kind of solder. I mean it is so thin it would be very difficult to weld anything like that.

planb
05-04-2005, 12:28 AM
4 years with my griffin radiator and im happy as ever.

thoraxe
05-04-2005, 07:23 AM
If you're not having cooling issues with your radiator now, then there is no real need to upgrade.

One reason to support Griffin would be to support a company that is supporting drifting. To support a company that is based in the USA. To support a company that supports DGTrials http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously though... if you're not seeking an increase in cooling efficiency, just get the cheap radiator and be more careful with it http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Also, remember that increases in cooling efficiency come from MANY factors, not just the radiator design. If you put a crap radiator and an awesome radiator in the same environment with poor airflow then they will both perform poorly. Things like condensers, missing shrouds, missing undertrays, and other issues that will change the amount of "clean" airflow through your radiator can all effect cooling efficiency.

So, before you pony up cash, sit back and look at what you need out of your cooling solution and then pick a product.

The C&R product is great if you do certain stuff, and the Griffin might be great for other stuff. If you just park hard and drive to work, even a stockish radiator might work....

Happy cooling.

Over_Center
05-04-2005, 10:25 PM
A few weeks ago C&R and Griffin went head to head at a test in Florida on the same day. All 3 cars at the test had the same motor, 2 of the cars had C&R drift spec rads, 1 had a Griffin. The 2 cars with my radiators in them ran 20 degrees C cooler than the car with Griffin. The 2 cars also made 75 more HP than the car with the Griffin.

Your damn right C&R is great product, if I do say so myself.

Now, I do understand that the product we make at C&R is out of some peoples price range. Their is noting wrong with that. Koyo makes a copper and brass radiator is the best bang for the buck on the market right now. If you truly want to up the efficiency of your cooling system for the least amount of money possible Koyo cooper and brass is your rad.

digitalpimp
05-04-2005, 10:33 PM
i'm intrested in buying a custom C&R radiator, do you sell them overcenter? how do they compare to a ron davis radiator? what is the ruff cost of a custom C&R, please email nickshamla@hotmail.com if you don't want to post #'s publically.

cdn_w_sr20
05-05-2005, 09:48 AM
Ya i agree, dont buy an aluminum Koyo at all. The contruction is a little harsh, thats all i'm trying to say.

thoraxe
05-05-2005, 10:56 AM
Kevin,

You're talking about my car which has no ducting for either incoming or outgoing airflow over the radiator. It also has the FAL fans which I'm beginning to think do not have the most awesome airflow characteristics (and you showed in your study).

Your comparison doesn't reflect any of the other circumstances regarding the airflow over the two radiators, and has no merit. You can't just say "one car had one radiator and another car had another radiator and car a was hotter than car b so radiator b is better".

The fact that the two cars had the same motor doesn't really mean anything. Were the coolant temps measured in the same place and in the same manner using the same gauges and sensors? Were the cars modded identically engine-wise? What about tuning? What about intercooler location? What about the intercooler itself? What about front bumpers? Which car was being driven harder/had to work harder to achieve the same output? What was the coolant being used? What flow rate did the coolant have through the radiators?

The way to test whether or not one radiator is "superior" to another is to eliminate variables. The simplest way is to take a known hot fluid and pass it through both radiators with identical airflow across them and with an identical fluid flow rate and then you can somewhat compare the cooling characteristics.

Until then, you're comparing apples to oranges. For someone who took the time to do such a detailed study of various radiators and fans and their cooling performance, you are sure being completely unscientific about judging the performance of your own product compared to another in this instance.

I'm not saying your product doesn't work, because I know it does. I'm not saying what I have works great, because it is not at the moment, but that's primarily (at this point) related to other variables that are not the radiator itself.

Over_Center
05-08-2005, 07:04 PM
Eric,

It is pointless to argue with you. If C&R or any other company gave you a rad, you would be on here telling people to buy that brand. Dude, your bought and paid for. Although, I will list a few points.

1) Enjuku's cars the ones at the test do not have duct work either.

2) Enjuku's cars do have better fans. Why ? Because C&R has done there home work and know what fans work.

3) C&R does cooling systems not just radiators. Enjuku has a cooling system that reflects 35+ years of professional racing experience.

4) If you’re so damn smart why do your teammates cars overheat?


Lastly, I have no problem taking a look at your or any of yours teammates set up and making that epoxy filled Griffin work to its peak potential. All you got to do is ask.

thoraxe
05-09-2005, 02:10 PM
Kevin,

What is there to argue about? You're comparing a "cooling system" to a rad/fan combo. Which do you think is going to perform better?

This person did not ask "should I get a C&R radiator?" They asked if the Griffin was worth it over the Koyo, and I made some commentary as to why or why not. I am not trying to sell a product that I make. I am trying to help someone make sure that they buy the right product for THEIR needs based on THEIR budget and THEIR vehicle. I didn't even suggest a brand. I answered the question. I am being unbiased. Obviously you are biased towards your own product, and that is not really what this individual needs to hear.

I never said I was smart. I don't know which "team mates" you are referring to, but my personal car has a bunch of parts thrown together which need some revamping. My race car overheated at Bristol because it had a ruptured coolant hose.

I appreciate the offer, but Griffin has requested the car for some R&D work to add to their 24 years of experience. I suppose everyone has to start somewhere, right?

Hiram_aka_Chingon
05-09-2005, 02:52 PM
stock ka size core:
14"x25"
w/tanks
18"x26"

so from this page:
http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/onlinestore/getsubclasses.cfm?ClassID=70&CategoryID=6

i say choose 80125N 19in. x 26in. x 3in. Double Pass and custom mount it. Although I think the outlets are on the other side in the sr...

They cool 3 rotor engines quite nicely, fc guys like them over fluydine and koyo, and if you need it custom, it's something like 330-350$ shipped.

Quality is top notch i'd say..
http://www.kyrotary.com/rrxp689/P2170006.JPG
http://www.kyrotary.com/rrxp689/RX-7/itsrad.jpg
http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102498

thoraxe
05-10-2005, 06:18 AM
That rad looks dope, but some of the fabrication (although not much) is out of range of some people.

I want to say, Kevin, that your product IS awesome and it DOES work well. It's just not in my budget ATM. I'm at a stage now with that car where anything I want to do to it will cost me $6000, including a "proper" cooling system http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif So, for now, I'll just fudge with what I've got and see how well I can make it work.

gsracer
05-10-2005, 07:12 AM
That rad does look awsome, +1 on the price too.

Hiram_aka_Chingon
05-10-2005, 08:17 AM
That rad looks dope, but some of the fabrication (although not much) is out of range of some people.

I want to say, Kevin, that your product IS awesome and it DOES work well. It's just not in my budget ATM. I'm at a stage now with that car where anything I want to do to it will cost me $6000, including a "proper" cooling system http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif So, for now, I'll just fudge with what I've got and see how well I can make it work.



you may be right. That rad is not the size I recommended obviously, it's a custom setup from the same guys, so fabricating brackets is not so abysmal.

asad
05-10-2005, 08:34 AM
The fin spacing on that radiator above looks VERY tight. You might not get enough airflow through it if you have an intercooler sitting in front of it.

Asad

gsracer
05-10-2005, 08:44 AM
can it possibly be worse than the koyo , i got from there site they use 16 fins per inch

cdn_w_sr20
05-10-2005, 11:40 AM
Wow fast shipping. I got the griffin radiator that he had posted in the auction today! Honestly, the quality is actually quite nice. I'll take some pics tonight.

For the record it is the exact same core size as the koyo rad, fits the FAL220 fans perfect, has a reinforced neck and a proper overflow spout that is removeable. It does not using a cheap plastic plug either like the koyo uses.

It is indeed made by griffin 100%. It has the griffin logo and all painted on it, i dont know who would goto such a length to make that little dragon thing on there. In any event it is not cheap like most of the generic rads they make.

I wont be able to test it until my greddy multi switching unit gets here though. Messed up because that was shipped to me in march and still isn't here.

I'll take some pics tonight or tomorrow and post it up.

forgoto to mention, it has all the tabs on it to use the stock radiator mounts as well, quite nice.

thoraxe
05-10-2005, 12:48 PM
be wary of the radiator cap. Griffin had some control problems and not all the caps are perfect.

Also, crank the crap out of it. If you just give it a gentle twist, it's not all the way on. The Griffin cap turns like 270 degrees before it's really in there properly. If your car is doing strange overheating things despite being bled awesomely well and whatnot, check your cap.

Hiram_aka_Chingon
05-10-2005, 03:05 PM
The fin spacing on that radiator above looks VERY tight. You might not get enough airflow through it if you have an intercooler sitting in front of it.

Asad




I don't think it's that bad. Apparently the koyo's have a tighter fin pattern than these. Personally I haven't payed much attention to the koyo's, but these seemed to be spaced like the OEM rads.

fin spacing (http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102498)