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View Full Version : EVO VIII twin scroll turbo on an SR20DET?... PICS!



Nikeboy355
05-03-2005, 01:56 AM
OK so I have kind of a crazy idea... I have a couple of friends that are STI and EVO VIII freaks and they all seem to love the "twin scroll" turbos...

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/october03/ask_sarah/images/1.jpg

The main benefit of the twin scroll is that lag is reduced but I have read that single scroll turbos provide more top end. The exhaust housing is divided and a pair of cylinders fire into each division... I am still a little sketchy on my understanding but I know that Mitsubishi, Subaru, Volvo, Saab, and Mazda are all using them...

Now the JDM Version 8 WRX STI Spec C comes with one(the IHI VF37) but that is too expensive and all the US WRX guys are driving up those prices($1500-$2000)... The US Mitsubishi EVO VIII comes with a twin scroll turbo and those EVO guys are making 350WHP with just a tune and the standard bolt-ons... intake, exhaust, intercooler, etc. ...

Now check this out... here is an EVO tubular manifold and O2 housing...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7971571260&catego ry=33742

the flange looks a lot like ours!... so I have the possibility of boring out the holes a little and making it fit... worst case scenario I cut off the flange and put an SR one on...

Now the turbo to manifold flange will also need to be rotated 180 degrees which will be a piece of cake... If I don't then the turbo will be facing in the wrong direction... the compressor would be facing the steering shaft... The next step would be to figure something out about the internal wastegate being on the wrong side but I won't be able to deal with that until it's all mounted together... Oil and water lines will just be a 20 minute trip down to the local Earl's shop...

The turbo would be the most important one to find and I'll just hire some goons to hang out Vishnu tuning's shop or maybe find a deal like this on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7968711749&catego ry=33742

EVO VIII turbos cost around $400 used... total cost of the project is:

$400 - turbo
$250 - turbo manifold and O2 housing
$100 - oil and water lines
$100 - welding work to manifold and O2 housing (or I can just buy one of my friends some sushi and he'll be happy)
$50 - Jet hot coat the manifold (because I want to)

about $1000... a little bit of work but I'm not lazy... interesting, huh?

I should say that my newest S13 is intended for roadcoarse and that I am looking for the ultimate in response tuning... V-mounted intercooler/radiator, 9.0 CR pistons, 740cc injectors, and an HKS standalone computer will finish off my little wish list...

What do you think?... Will this be the first twin scroll SR?

Vapor
05-03-2005, 10:26 AM
one problem - the oem evo 8 turbo is a reverse spin design, so fitment will be trickier. As an Evo 8 owner, I can vouch for this turbo being quite remarkable. It has fantastic response, and some crazy ass loons have been able to extract 450 WHEEL hp out of these things, on race gas!!! With some weight reduction, one evo has gone 10.90's at 124mph on the stock turbo, no nitrous.

JimStinksAtDorifto
05-03-2005, 10:52 AM
Just a side note, the 87/88 Mazda Rx-7 turbo also had a twin scroll. Most people remove it as it hinders top end flow. But, then again, the rotary has a ton of exhaust flow and it can spool large turbos easily.

rocksco_ultraPEZ
05-04-2005, 11:26 AM
I have been preaching this to a few 240 owners as well. The Evo VIII spoolup and transient response is INSANE for a 400hp capable turbo, and its not even BB! I guess a bit of that has to do with a bit higher compression and a longer stroke of the 4g63 compared to a SR though. If you want to experiment, I would recommend the Evo 6.5 RS Tommi edition turbo with a 10.5cm exhaust housing. This turbo features a 33% lighter titanium aluminide exhaust wheel compared to the lowly inconel wheel on the VIII turbo. Or you can wait for the Evo9 MR turbos to reach our shores which supposedly has a TiAl exhaust wheel and a magnesium compressor wheel with revised blade design. The turbo can be had for under 1000 bucks new. Plus from my experience mitsu turbos are indestructible. Not bad if you ask me. You could possibly piece together a proper dual scroll manifold using an Evo ebay manifold with a SR flange and bend the pipes to match the SR bore spacing. Who knows how it would fit though, being reverse spinning and all. **should have read your post all the way through** http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A bit off topic,

John,
How do you like your evo? I am in the market for one and have only been on a few non spirited test drives.

steve shadows
05-04-2005, 01:13 PM
i thought the 4g63 had a large bore than the sr20det not stroke? Please enlighten me.

asad
05-04-2005, 01:55 PM
i thought the 4g63 had a large bore than the sr20det not stroke? Please enlighten me.



I'm sure google can enlighten you.

Asad

Nikeboy355
05-04-2005, 02:03 PM
85mm bore
88mm stroke
8.8:1 CR
276HP @ 6500RPM
286TQ @ 3500RPM
7K redline

that's for the EVO VIII... I don't know about the other 4G63s, EVOs, or Eclipses...

OK, I think I am going to try it out... the exhaust housing is huge so it will be a pain clearing the steering column... I've got a couple friends who are real solid fabricators and I am going to bug the hell out of them...

I spoke to James at G-Dimension and he said it would be more trouble than it's worth but maybe he isn't taking into account that I have no life... and I also can't argue with all these EVO guys making such good power on them... I am also hoping that the EVO MR turbos will bolt in the same place if I want to upgrade in the future... and I'll do some research on all the different EVO turbos, thanks PEZ!...

I am really hoping that the spacing between the runners are close on the manifolds but we'll find out soon enough... you can call me the 2871R killer!

cesar
05-04-2005, 02:19 PM
That's not that big of difference imo.

By looking at some dyno charts the EVO turbo seems to have almost the same spool-up as a stock T25, yet you guys say that its capable of making 350-400, damn that's pretty impressive. Now i'm considering putting this in my KA since i'll have to get a manifold, lines, etc. anyways.
The main concern is still the manifold. I don't have any "hook-ups" so it might be a little expensive, but if i could get a manifold i would definitely go for it.




OK, I think I am going to try it out... the exhaust housing is huge so it will be a pain clearing the steering column...


Why not go for a top-mount then??

asad
05-04-2005, 02:33 PM
Why not go for a top-mount then??



Actually that's a really good idea and will work well (IMO) with the reverse-rotation -- the turbine outlet will be closer to the head than the inlet flange which means you'll have more clearance from the downpipe to the brake master cylinder.

Asad

Nikeboy355
05-04-2005, 03:35 PM
I have a T3 flanged tubular top mounted manifold that I can modify but making the collector will be a lot of work! I will have to get the 1-4 cylinders routed to one half and the 2-3 cylinders to the other... getting a flange cut won't be a problem though and I'd rather pay for fabricating on top of my manifold then buying another one...

O2 housing should be pretty simple to do since the exhaust and wastegate sides are divided and I'll just need to get a flange cut and have seperate pipes welded on instead of making some oblong-3" concoction...

clearance on top will be much easier and the wastegate should hang fine... I do have a Blitz 44mm wastegate that I can use as well...

I originally wanted the turbo to sit low because I wanted the heat to be contained within the stock-est area... I want this motor to last a long time without any surprises but I am sure I can shield/wrap as necesary on top... also bends are minimized for the exhaust routing if it sits low...

I understand that the turbine spins in the opposite direction but can someone explain to me why this matters at all?... it all comes out of the compressor the same, right? And if I spooled on the other side of the world would it spin in the opposite direction like a toilet? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SRENITY
05-04-2005, 03:48 PM
How much boost does it take on one off those things to make the 350-400 WHP numbers? Stock the EVO VIII runs approx. 18 PSI and is rated at 286 flywheel HP. I know from all the DSM'ers I talk to that they tend to always be running 25-30 PSI. I like the concept of the twin scroll but I would not want to run that much boost to get the 350 HP mark.

cesar
05-04-2005, 04:21 PM
I have a T3 flanged tubular top mounted manifold that I can modify but making the collector will be a lot of work! I will have to get the 1-4 cylinders routed to one half and the 2-3 cylinders to the other...


I don't know about the SR, but there are several top-mount manifolds out there for the KA where the 1-4 runners meet on half of the flange and 2-3 meet in the other half. Here's a couple of examples:Link 1 (http://home.new.rr.com/kjlindgr/DSCN7720.jpg), link 2 (http://www.boostdesigns.com/images/manifold16.jpg).
There's gotta be a few SR manifolds out there like this, so all you have to do is change the flanges, and you don't have to worry about runner spacing, runner seize/bore, or turbo placement.




And if I spooled on the other side of the world would it spin in the opposite direction like a toilet? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif


LOL http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

asad
05-04-2005, 04:34 PM
I understand that the turbine spins in the opposite direction but can someone explain to me why this matters at all?



It's only for packaging reasons -- just something to be aware of. Doesn't work any differently.

Asad

Nikeboy355
05-04-2005, 04:51 PM
How much boost does it take on one off those things to make the 350-400 WHP numbers? Stock the EVO VIII runs approx. 18 PSI and is rated at 286 flywheel HP. I know from all the DSM'ers I talk to that they tend to always be running 25-30 PSI. I like the concept of the twin scroll but I would not want to run that much boost to get the 350 HP mark.



very good point but I don't think it is exactly comparable... hmmm... very interesting, maybe one of the genious' will chime in...

Here are a couple of pics of the EVO VIII turbo, EVO VIII tubular manifold, and EVO VIII O2 housing...

notice:
1. Size of the exhaust housing!
2. Similarity of placement of the turbo in it's stock location compared against our SR manifolds
3. Divided O2 housing
4. Similarity of head flange/spacing of exhaust ports

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDA1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDAzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDA2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDA3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDA5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDEwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTA5NDA0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

aaronyoung
05-04-2005, 07:16 PM
How much boost does it take on one off those things to make the 350-400 WHP numbers? Stock the EVO VIII runs approx. 18 PSI and is rated at 286 flywheel HP. I know from all the DSM'ers I talk to that they tend to always be running 25-30 PSI. I like the concept of the twin scroll but I would not want to run that much boost to get the 350 HP mark.



Personally I'm not believing the 400whp figure unless it was at altitude (because of correction), I don't think the compressor or turbine could keep up on a 16g at that power level. Now 350 I could see, maybe, maxing it out...
Any one got this compressor map, or a link to a 400whp EVO running the factory 16g? I'd be pretty interested to take a look at it.

Nikeboy355
05-04-2005, 09:21 PM
Any one got this compressor map, or a link to a 400whp EVO running the factory 16g? I'd be pretty interested to take a look at it.


http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=135514&highlight=stock+turbo+reco rd

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=127171&highlight=stock+turbo+reco rd

here are a couple... I don't want to go into the HP potential so much... I'm focusing on a very broad powerband... think Mines Skyline R34, Amuse Supra, MCR Skyline R34... I think 325WHP would be the magic number for me and I haven't even looked into tranny/rear end gearing yet... The ultimate in response and as light & rigid a chassis I can put together will be the keys...

S14_James
05-04-2005, 09:45 PM
I'm making 275awhp on a DynoDynamics with my daily driver.
I have a spike of 22 psi wth 19psi at redline. I've got an 03 with intake, intercooler, no cat, xflash chip,fuel pump, and exhaust. The stock car runs about 200 on a the Dyno dynamics dyno so I'm making about 350hp at the flywheel with those mods. Guys with cams and a down pipe where scoring 300-310 awhp.
With a full exhaust that is 3-inch and a good set of cams like HKS 272 step 1 you should be able to get close to the numbers the evo guys are seeing which is near 400 at the crank with pump gas. With boost coming on real early, I make full 22psi at 3500 which is where I make gobs of torque.

Note the Evo has good cams from the factory, more like a set of 256 for us. Also for the savy turbo buyer the newer 05 Evo turbos have 10.5cm (03-04 have a 9.8cm) hotsides and the best stock Evo turbo is a Evo 6 T.M.E. version which has the 10.5 hotside and titanium compressor wheel which if I recall proper cost alittle under 1000 brand new.
-James

RDM_II
05-04-2005, 09:54 PM
As an Evo 8 owner, I can vouch for this turbo being quite remarkable.



How many cars you got mang? Twelve?

aaronyoung
05-04-2005, 10:10 PM
all I can say is wow! That is unthinkable.
Makes me wish I would have bought that RS after all http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Vapor
05-04-2005, 10:31 PM
As an Evo 8 owner, I can vouch for this turbo being quite remarkable.



How many cars you got mang? Twelve?



No, I just sold my pos gas slugging Cobra to get the Evo. I missed daily driving a car that can handle well, and the Evo certainly does! It doesnt hurt to have a functional back seat either. To answer your question, just the s14 and Evo, thats it.

S14_James
05-05-2005, 04:57 AM
Must be releated you and I, I don't have a widebody Kouki though, I have a Zenki.
-James

Vapor
05-05-2005, 08:37 AM
Must be releated you and I, I don't have a widebody Kouki though, I have a Zenki.
-James



IMHO, we have two of the most fun to drive cars sold in the last 15 years, and Ive had a LOT of them. My car used to be a zenki (pokes at russ)

RDM_II
05-05-2005, 09:43 AM
Must be releated you and I, I don't have a widebody Kouki though, I have a Zenki.
-James



IMHO, we have two of the most fun to drive cars sold in the last 15 years, and Ive had a LOT of them. My car used to be a zenki (pokes at russ)



Mine used to a Kouki, good thing I bought it and set it right (pokes back at John, a little harder this time).

Back to topic though, how many aftermarket companies are preparing similiar twin scroll upgrades for the EVO, say HKS, PE, etc? Or do the available ones delete the twin scroll design? If the OE turbo is capable of those numbers I'd like to see what a larger one would do on a similiar setup.

Vapor
05-05-2005, 10:10 AM
no other aftermarket company really deals with mitsubishi turbines, except for GReddy. They don't offer any twin scrolls, probably due to the difficulty in packaging. To my knowledge, there aren't any twin scroll upgrades available. This is probably due to the tight space the stock turbo sits in, and a reverse rotation with even larger housings would comprimise radiator clearance (they arleady have to run push fans from the factory).

Seems like the evo peeps either max out the stock turbo or bolt on a GT35R kit and make 600hp http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif which I think is rather lame.

S14_James
05-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Yeah teh GT35R is the Evo turbo that everyone likes to get. I'm only some what impressed, alot of guys using that turbo have to run mega boost with race gas to roll 600+ awhp.
-James

turtl631
05-05-2005, 10:52 AM
AWD cars have pretty nasty drivetrain losses though compared to RWD.
And its funny that this should come up...I just posted a remark about twin scrolls on a KA-T forum about 2 weeks ago, no replies though.

JimStinksAtDorifto
05-05-2005, 10:58 AM
Seems like the evo peeps either max out the stock turbo or bolt on a GT35R kit and make 600hp



haha yeh, my friend has the AMS 2.3L with GT35R making 601whp, 450 pump. Spools very well with the extra cubes. He's already raped everything around here and he's going bigger very soon, too.

killjoy
05-05-2005, 11:12 AM
Since I like you, John, I will forget that you had a Mustang http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Vapor
05-05-2005, 02:08 PM
Since I like you, John, I will forget that you had a Mustang http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif



thank you, i like myself so I'm trying to forget I had a mustang

2slow240sx
05-06-2005, 04:28 AM
Why not just dremel out the divider in the turbine housing and make it fit a regular manifold? I doubt that you'd see any harsh effects from it. Also, you'd have better flow up top.

asad
05-06-2005, 08:34 AM
Why not just dremel out the divider in the turbine housing and make it fit a regular manifold?



Uh, because the whole POINT was to create a response-oriented turbo setup.

Asad

Kim_Jong_Il
05-06-2005, 08:42 AM
Why not just dremel out the divider in the turbine housing and make it fit a regular manifold? I doubt that you'd see any harsh effects from it. Also, you'd have better flow up top.




Are you on the rock or something?

digitalpimp
05-06-2005, 02:21 PM
what about a twin scroll like the garrett gt32? (go easy on the flaming, i'm a bit of noob when it comes to the technical side of turbo chargers).

they are used a lot on 2L group N subaru engines, and nobody would have a turbo with lots of lag on one of those cars... but then again they all run anti-lag.

2slow240sx
05-06-2005, 04:50 PM
Why not just dremel out the divider in the turbine housing and make it fit a regular manifold? I doubt that you'd see any harsh effects from it. Also, you'd have better flow up top.




Are you on the rock or something?



Probably.

b18c_ferio
09-22-2005, 09:57 PM
any updates?? new news?

Nikeboy355
09-23-2005, 12:11 PM
I'm waiting for my car to get out of paint and I need some more money for the engine management (HKS F-Con V Pro)... I also have a friend who just bought an EVO 9(which uses a turbo very similar to the EVO 8 MR) so I am trying to weasel it out of him...

I will update as soon as possible... Seeing Scott's response tune has led me to get another job just to see what I can do with my setup!

S14_James
09-23-2005, 01:10 PM
Just so you're aware the EVO mr turbo is no different from the standard 05 EVO TD05R-16g w/t 10.5cm^2 exhaut housing. The original USDM Evo (03-04) has the only difference of a 9.8cm^2 exhaust housing. The super baller turbo is the JDM EVO VI Tommy Makkin ed. Has titanium parts in it.
Physically there is no difference fabrication wise for any of these turbos. they are all interchangable.
This project makes me excited, I wanna see what this turbo does.
-James

EludeR
09-23-2005, 01:14 PM
This is a excellent thread. I was having ideas of something similar as well http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code =NTDSMEVOB16G&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo the EVO III Big 16g wich supposedly outflows a Garett GT28RS (Not according to me) and out spools (Not according to me either). I quit arguing when he showed me some boost vs engine demand maps for a twin TT Steath/3000GT setup. Wich showed that the EVOIII 16g's where making more boost at lower rpm's vs the twin disco potato setups on the same engine. I'am still a bit skeptical though , and i'am wondering what you guys think. Mitsu turbo > Garett GT technology ? Now this is coming along I wonder how efficient the EVOVIII turbocharger would be at the higher boost levels that the dsm guys run them at. Are their any Garett/Mitsu Guru's that can clarify things a bit better ?

SRENITY
09-23-2005, 02:16 PM
I just want to live in dream land right know so follow me on this. Wouldn't it be nice if someone would combine the design concepts of both Garett and Mitsu to create the ultimate spoolup turbo.

GT wheel for high effiency
Ball Bearing (faster spool)
Titanium Shaft/Turbine wheel (faster spool)
Twin Scroll (faster spool)

EludeR
09-23-2005, 03:01 PM
I just want to live in dream land right know so follow me on this. Wouldn't it be nice if someone would combine the design concepts of both Garett and Mitsu to create the ultimate spoolup turbo.

GT wheel for high effiency
Ball Bearing (faster spool)
Titanium Shaft/Turbine wheel (faster spool)
Twin Scroll (faster spool)


I guess we can only keep on dreaming.

ManoNegra
09-24-2005, 09:23 PM
Nice going Nin! Now just make sure you don't work yourself to death before finishing this project! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

chunk
09-24-2005, 10:03 PM
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GT32-73TRIM-78AR&Category_Code=GTNBB

slw240sx
09-27-2005, 11:49 PM
This is a excellent thread. I was having ideas of something similar as well http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code =NTDSMEVOB16G&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo the EVO III Big 16g wich supposedly outflows a Garett GT28RS (Not according to me) and out spools (Not according to me either). I quit arguing when he showed me some boost vs engine demand maps for a twin TT Steath/3000GT setup. Wich showed that the EVOIII 16g's where making more boost at lower rpm's vs the twin disco potato setups on the same engine. I'am still a bit skeptical though , and i'am wondering what you guys think. Mitsu turbo > Garett GT technology ? Now this is coming along I wonder how efficient the EVOVIII turbocharger would be at the higher boost levels that the dsm guys run them at. Are their any Garett/Mitsu Guru's that can clarify things a bit better ?



later this week we are going to see how this EvoIII big16g works out. had one laying around and i decided to test it out. I'll be running lower boost for now, but the plan is to beable to run 20+psi every once in a while.

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470big16gCa18det.jpg

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470nocompressor.jpg

steve shadows
09-28-2005, 03:54 PM
<img src="http://quiznos_hamsters.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/quiznos.gif"> <br>[censored] YEAH

EludeR
09-28-2005, 08:34 PM
This is a excellent thread. I was having ideas of something similar as well http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code =NTDSMEVOB16G&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo the EVO III Big 16g wich supposedly outflows a Garett GT28RS (Not according to me) and out spools (Not according to me either). I quit arguing when he showed me some boost vs engine demand maps for a twin TT Steath/3000GT setup. Wich showed that the EVOIII 16g's where making more boost at lower rpm's vs the twin disco potato setups on the same engine. I'am still a bit skeptical though , and i'am wondering what you guys think. Mitsu turbo > Garett GT technology ? Now this is coming along I wonder how efficient the EVOVIII turbocharger would be at the higher boost levels that the dsm guys run them at. Are their any Garett/Mitsu Guru's that can clarify things a bit better ?



later this week we are going to see how this EvoIII big16g works out. had one laying around and i decided to test it out. I'll be running lower boost for now, but the plan is to beable to run 20+psi every once in a while.

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470big16gCa18det.jpg

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470nocompressor.jpg

Well let us know how it turns out , I'am anxious to find out how well these turbochargers work

dentsportgarage
09-29-2005, 08:17 PM
"they are used a lot on 2L group N subaru engines, and nobody would have a turbo with lots of lag on one of those cars... but then again they all run anti-lag."

Group N cars use the stock turbos. Most higher spec Group N imprezas use the spec c twin scroll setup, evos use the HRA 16G from the TME. Both are ok with moderate anti-lag

EludeR
10-05-2005, 07:58 AM
Any updates ?

slw240sx
10-06-2005, 02:32 AM
actually yes...

tonight was up at the dyno. keep in mind i havnt done any tuning yet.

this was a baseline pull, stock injectors,Ka24e maf, stock computer. i also have a nasty exhaust leak between the manifold and head after the hour drive to the dyno.

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470jonbasedyno.jpg

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470JONBOOSTAFRs.jpg

SR_S14Zenki
10-06-2005, 11:26 AM
that powerband looks very linear to me...

slw240sx
10-06-2005, 09:53 PM
i really should have had them take it over 7500rpms it was still gaining power. i was just woried because my boost controller wasnt working at all. i upped the boost from 10 to 14psi, and i really went from 13.6 to 14.1

i have a customized HKS adjustable acutator from a t28 turbo and i dont think it was holding the gate shut enough to build boost in the lower RPMs sound probable??

SR_S14Zenki
10-06-2005, 11:07 PM
if you can make a manifold for my SR20DET i will take one...this seems like a turbo that spools quickly and makes power...my buddy just upgraded to a GT30R on his EVO and will sell me his old turbo for like $300

slw240sx
10-07-2005, 12:32 AM
my turbo is a EVOIII big16G not the EvoVIII which is the twin scroll turbo.

SR_S14Zenki
10-07-2005, 01:35 AM
oh doh...damnit i need to learn how to read...well that still looks really impressive...is the GT28RS that flat of a curve? If you plan on using a Twin Scroll turbo i would be willing to test one on my SR as i have easy access to one...

nmap
10-12-2005, 02:59 AM
I dont want this thread to die!

I'm seriously considering this build myself... my new motor should go into the car on sunday. Wiesco "9:1 but not really 9:1" .20 over, all new acessories etc. the turbo is about to go out on me, and some friends of mine have been building a few tubular honda equal length manifolds. one is dyno proven at 420hp on a completely stock b16... though that most definately cant all be attributred to the manifold.

i really want to get them to build me a manifold in trade work. if there is interest it's possible i could get them to build a couple more... i guess we're going to have to see how mine shakes out first.

so just to clarify, the reverse turbine makes no functional difference, just one of those things? any other possible fitament issues you guys think would arise? brake master cylinder clearance?

wootwoot
10-12-2005, 10:51 AM
So I kinda want in on this now....

BlitzMR2
10-12-2005, 11:08 AM
My response being way, way late I did want to add that Toyota has used twin-scroll turbochargers for years. I know the 1990 (JDM) 1991 (USDM) MR2T was twin-scroll--called by Toyota "Twin Entry." It was the CT26 turbocharger, used previously on the MKIII Supra--though not in twin scroll form in that application. Just FYI. Carry on. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SR_S14Zenki
10-12-2005, 12:35 PM
if anyone makes a twin scroll manifold or needs a tester I will do it...i have a turbo at my fingertips to test...

TS4l
10-12-2005, 02:00 PM
Maybe this is a dumb question but what is the difference between a twin scroll turbo and a turbo with a divided tang? Its been a while since I looked at housings but I remember seeing T3 and T4 divided tang housings. Wouldn't that have the same effect? Seems to obvious that someone whould have already mentioned this if it were the cause but someone teach me more!

dentsportgarage
10-12-2005, 02:14 PM
Divided tang is the same as twin scroll. The technology has been around for 20 years in diesel applications and was big in the 80's japanese turbo scene. TTE used modified twin scroll CT26s to power the 165/185/205 Celica in Group A WRC competition. The only reason I am using a TD05HRA is the fact that it is the only turbo under 4K that can sustain constant 1600F+ temps. The flow capabilities are not any better than a 2871.

TS4l
10-12-2005, 02:53 PM
Thats what I was thinking but since no one had mentioned "divided Tang" in this discussion I was wondering if I was confused. I did some more research after I posted that and found a lot of good info.

wootwoot
10-12-2005, 03:10 PM
Good info like what? =)

asad
10-12-2005, 09:05 PM
a turbo with a divided tang?



Just FYI, "tang" is short for "tangential-inlet" in order to differentiate those housings from on-center T4 housings. There are no T3 divided/tangential housings; however, there are T4 divided/tangential housings that use a T3-size inlet flange (Turbonetics calls them a "euro-style" small inlet) -- but they're sized for T4 turbine wheels.

Asad

TS4l
10-13-2005, 10:29 AM
a turbo with a divided tang?



Just FYI, "tang" is short for "tangential-inlet" in order to differentiate those housings from on-center T4 housings. There are no T3 divided/tangential housings; however, there are T4 divided/tangential housings that use a T3-size inlet flange (Turbonetics calls them a "euro-style" small inlet) -- but they're sized for T4 turbine wheels.

Asad


Sorry about the earlier post saying there were T3's with divided Tang, I thought a few years ago I read about that technology being used on T3's and T4's but after a search yesterday I found out what you just said.

wootwoot
10-13-2005, 01:25 PM
http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code =NTEVO8TI105&Category_Code=Lancer_EVO


The more I play around with this the more I want it to happen.

Nikeboy355
10-13-2005, 04:01 PM
I am working on it... I was actually thinking of trying the setup on an internally stock SR motor(at around 1 bar/~14.5lbs.) first just so we can compare it against other turbo upgrades(and the stock T25)...

My friend's EVOIX hits full boost(~18lbs.) at around 3000RPM so I am very excited as to how this is going to turn out... That car does have more load(since it is 4WD) and slightly higher compression but the turbo should yield us similar benefits...

SR_S14Zenki
10-13-2005, 06:22 PM
as soon as someone makes a manifold i will be game and would love some numbers...also i can check to see if my buddy would be interested in designing an equal length manifold for it...

steve shadows
10-13-2005, 10:41 PM
Im yet to be sold on the turbo for the sr?

I mean my to4e spools up at 4k???

Kookz
10-13-2005, 10:56 PM
And this turbo is capable of 400 hp as well.

SR_S14Zenki
10-14-2005, 12:04 AM
And this turbo is capable of 400 hp as well.



yeah the EVOIII 16g i believe has made 400whp on a DSM and the EVO VIII turbo can make more power and they have new housings and [censored] for it...

steve shadows
10-14-2005, 12:08 PM
And this turbo is capable of 400 hp as well.



so does a 50 trim

SR_S14Zenki
10-14-2005, 09:13 PM
yeah but it still spools like a 50trim...a 16g spools really easily...i had a 50 trim on my DSM and i wouldnt call it a lot of lag but i know a 16g woulda spooled faster on my motor...it was the freak motor...i spooled a 50trim by 3200(19psi)

JordoKap
10-15-2005, 01:06 PM
What is the difference is a "twin scroll" setup compared to a divided housing matched with a manifold that is divided?

Kookz
10-15-2005, 08:13 PM
And this turbo is capable of 400 hp as well.



so does a 50 trim


Really? I wonder why I said "as well".

EludeR
10-15-2005, 10:33 PM
Im yet to be sold on the turbo for the sr?

I mean my to4e spools up at 4k???




You are deviating from the topic here. You don't see EVOIII/VIII/X on SR20DET vs X turbo on SR20DET as the subject/topic line here do you ? Please try and stay on topic. I'am eager to find out how well this turbo would work on our applicaton as well.

Mellon
10-15-2005, 10:57 PM
a few thoughts:

1) most dsm guys I've talked to in the past said that 400awhp on a DSM with E16G's is unlikely. 350 is more realistic.

I recently put together some dyno charts from various turbo setups on my platform (3000/stealth TT). this might give you an idea how the various G wheel'd TD04 and TD05 housing turbos perform with 2 of them with 3.0L

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Mellonpopr/Stealth/DYNO/3SIdynoALL.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Mellonpopr/Stealth/DYNO/3SIdynoNONtd04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Mellonpopr/Stealth/DYNO/3SIdynoTD04.jpg

I'm in the middle of a twin E16G install on my car.. with stock heads, IC, and cams it should do 600 awhp all day long but I'll be the first to see what they'll do on race cams, stage III heads, FMIC. our stock cams leave a lot to be desired on the big end of the rpm range so it's possible to put down 700awhp I think.

slw240sx
10-16-2005, 03:22 AM
took the car to the track on thursday with the EvoIII16g on it, still on stock injectors and KA24e MAf, first run was a 12.94 @104mph, second run 13.2@108mph both passes at 14or so psi on street tires full inflation 35-50psi, KTS coils set on full soft front and back.

SR_S14Zenki
10-16-2005, 11:25 PM
not bad..that 108 trap is good for mid 12s or so...thats not too shabby at all...im really interested in this!! I still want to see the twin scroll on there too!! If winter wasnt creeping up on me up here id prolly through something together and get it to the track/dyno but i have to park my car for the year...

Mellon
10-17-2005, 06:51 AM
I started on a new project you might find useful. It shows the spool characteristics of the various turbos on the 3.0 TT stealths. If you look at how much rpm it takes to reach 15psi you can compare spoolup easily with this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Mellonpopr/Stealth/DYNO/3SIspoolAll.jpg

slw240sx
10-17-2005, 10:15 PM
we are trying to get my 550s and z32 maf in so we can begin tuning and up the boost .wanted to get high 11's before winter, but ill prob not try to hard.

and this is on a CA18det. anyone know what the fastest one in the country is ?

SR_S14Zenki
10-19-2005, 12:35 AM
we are trying to get my 550s and z32 maf in so we can begin tuning and up the boost .wanted to get high 11's before winter, but ill prob not try to hard.

and this is on a CA18det. anyone know what the fastest one in the country is ?



hurry up!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif ill be excited even if anyone else isnt...i like this development a lot actually

slw240sx
10-25-2005, 10:33 PM
well put in my 550s and z32 maf, but working with live edit we couldnt get a chip that would work correctly. not sure what was wrong , but we put it back to stock wrote a stock chip and tried to make it to a dyno day. had a o ring break on #2 injector leaving me no time to dyno. Ii havent had time to try the injectors and maf again since the shop has been so busy.

SR_S14Zenki
10-26-2005, 12:04 PM
damn isnt that just the way it always goes? lol i check back everyday hoping for updates...i wish you luck

dentsportgarage
11-02-2005, 06:07 PM
TD05HRA twin scroll manifold for SR20. I'll post some more photos later.
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/twin_scroll.jpg

wootwoot
11-02-2005, 09:25 PM
More info is needed on the manifold !!

shane_B
11-05-2005, 02:59 PM
Subaru's use the twin scroll turbo as well.

dentsportgarage
11-05-2005, 09:21 PM
The STi Spec C comes with an IHI VF37 twin scroll that is essentialy designed around group N cars and the mandated 32mm restrictor. Other than the 37, the remaining IHI VF series and MHI TD series used in earlier STis are all single scroll.
http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/photos/p13131n2.jpg

Nikeboy355
11-05-2005, 09:33 PM
Very cool... those turbos are expensive right now!... Why is the placement of the turbo going to be next to the CAS?

dentsportgarage
11-06-2005, 08:26 AM
Nikeboy,
there is a second half to the manifold which slips on. It is tacked now, I just need to find time to weld it. When I do I will post some photos.

SR_S14Zenki
11-13-2005, 04:34 PM
YES!! I was gonna do this over the winter...but i guess if you already have a manifold designed I won't really rush. Are you going to be looking to sell those at all? If you are I would love a price. That looks really awesome...

dentsportgarage
11-21-2005, 07:32 PM
Some updates.

I finished the chromoly motor mounts and installed a spare block and head in the bay. I am almost finished the exhaust manifold for a twin scroll td05hra mhi turbo. The tubing is 321 065wall and should be fine for mild to moderate antilag (for 2-3 minute runs) The manifold is 2 piece with the second half slipping on and providing enough for heat expansion. The turbo/motor/transmission are all solid mounts.

The compressor-->intercooler pipe will be less than 1 foot and the post IC pipe will be less than 2 feet. Sunny throttle bodies are mounted and the plenum is almost complete. Intercooler mounting will be next, then coolant lines to the rear and radiator mounting.
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/motor_november.jpg
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/twin_scroll2.jpg
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/manifold_new.jpg

wootwoot
11-21-2005, 07:51 PM
Looking wild

jakerps13
11-22-2005, 08:26 AM
Looks really good. Curious to see it all together.

On a side note, I like the slip on idea, however on the CPD rally cars we did it all after the turbo outlet. Just hope you won't have any issues sealing it up.

SR_S14Zenki
11-23-2005, 12:41 PM
my car will be getting the EVO turbo this winter as well...I will post updates/pictures as they come available...

shane_B
11-23-2005, 01:49 PM
Do you suspect any problems with the manifold or the slip on flange if one doesnt use solid motor mounts? I have Nismo mounts and for the most part my motor stays pretty stationary.

dentsportgarage
11-25-2005, 08:56 PM
I finished the exhaust manifold and am waiting to mount the intercooler before I finish the intake plenum. The exhaust manifold will have to be redone at some point as I don't anticipate 321 lasting that long being blasted by ALS. I'll have to save up for inconel or 347.

(if that).
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/twin_scroll4.jpg
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/twin_scroll3.jpg
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/manifold_new4.jpg
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/manifold_new3.jpg
http://www.dentsport.com/bill240/manifold_new2.jpg

driftking777
11-26-2005, 04:15 PM
thats some hot [censored]...lookin damn good..

shane_B
01-13-2006, 08:04 PM
Wow...now thats some fab work. Any progess?

SR_S14Zenki
01-23-2006, 10:24 AM
i will be doing this setup this spring as well...power goals are 350-400whp with spool up times hopefully in the mid 3k's...

edit: EVO VIII 16G that is...

Nikeboy355
01-23-2006, 01:45 PM
I originally started this post because I wanted to "update" the technology on the SR but I temporarily changed my mind and decided to put that same turbo(EVO 8) on my KA24DE(being freshly rebuilt)...

Once the KA manifold is done(I have the flanges already), I am going to make another and test it out on my friend's S13 SR...

I've been quiet on this thread but prototype manifolds are coming... I also have access to a dyno so we can see if this product actually works...

Five10PacksDE
01-23-2006, 01:57 PM
Nice gti-r twin scroll

SR_S14Zenki
01-23-2006, 09:54 PM
my manifold will be made ASAP...my buddy just a got a big contract to make SS manifolds and my car is one of the prototypes...i will see my results and maybe make more of them if its a good thing...

Nikeboy355
01-23-2006, 10:47 PM
I expect to see one of those manifolds in my mailbox soon then... Don't forget where you got the idea from http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif...

slw240sx
02-10-2006, 12:22 PM
any way to get those pictures update from the dentsport garage? i need to see them again to help me get a idea how im going to be building my newest manifold. today i took my EvoIII 16g off. this weekend im starting the build up of my new manifold for the EVOVIII turbo, didnt really want to take the car apart and change turbos so soon, but i happend upon a free EVOVIII turbo and just have to experiment. now i havnt worked on a twin scroll setup yet, how do i want the motor firing into the turbo ? does it make a difference? im making this from scratch using Schedule 10 304 SS

SR_S14Zenki
02-10-2006, 11:34 PM
you want CYL#1 and CYL#4 together and CYL#2 and CYL#3 together...

SequenceGarage
02-11-2006, 09:46 AM
It's not a bike motor

CA_inside
02-11-2006, 10:52 AM
we are trying to get my 550s and z32 maf in so we can begin tuning and up the boost .wanted to get high 11's before winter, but ill prob not try to hard.

and this is on a CA18det. anyone know what the fastest one in the country is ?



i most likly am



mod list :knife edge crank, pauter x beam rods,cp pistons,tomei
pro cams 260 int 270 ext 10.5mm lift,tomei solid lifter kit tomei cam gears,ported polished head & intake manifold, 70mm throttle body, 1000cc injectors,-8 fuel line, twin walbro 255 hi-pressure pumps,hks type r intercooler with 2 3\4 inch
piping,sc6152 prescion turbo,3 inch turbo back , os giken twin disc clutch, i was runing micro tech im in the process of switching to fcon vpro for more power and drivabilty

Nikeboy355
02-11-2006, 10:56 AM
In the next two weeks all the test fitting madness will begin...

I've got an SR, a KA, two EVO8 turbos, and a lot of blue gloves... and a digital camera...

Hiram_aka_Chingon
02-11-2006, 08:06 PM
Another fyi, did not bother reading everything, but the rx7 fc3s s5 (89-91) has a really nice divided flange turbocharger as well, methinks hitachi model. S4's have it as well, but is not as nice.. and here's a thread discussing both divided vs undivided:
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45478&highlight=divided +flange

1mns13
02-12-2006, 10:33 AM
we are trying to get my 550s and z32 maf in so we can begin tuning and up the boost .wanted to get high 11's before winter, but ill prob not try to hard.

and this is on a CA18det. anyone know what the fastest one in the country is ?



i most likly am



mod list :knife edge crank, pauter x beam rods,cp pistons,tomei
pro cams 260 int 270 ext 10.5mm lift,tomei solid lifter kit tomei cam gears,ported polished head & intake manifold, 70mm throttle body, 1000cc injectors,-8 fuel line, twin walbro 255 hi-pressure pumps,hks type r intercooler with 2 3\4 inch
piping,sc6152 prescion turbo,3 inch turbo back , os giken twin disc clutch, i was runing micro tech im in the process of switching to fcon vpro for more power and drivabilty

or want to be, post times when you run them.

nrgonline
03-18-2006, 02:41 AM
post by cait sith from ziptied.com



Some SR20DET fab at my friend's shop. (You might know them as the guys who threw the SR20DET into the E30 BMW).
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7780/aerialengine0ps.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4919/intercoolerdone1hl.jpg

Indie throttlebodies off the the old GTiR, Tommy Makinen EVO turbo for antilag fun, rear mounted radiator, etc... Nice [censored].

http://www.dentsport.com/gallery/v/dsg/projects/bill240_001/

Build up gallery.

I need to get these guys to get a mandrel bender.

Kookz
03-18-2006, 04:46 PM
Yeah...Bill posted all those if you look a few posts below this one.

sr20xs
03-23-2006, 01:47 AM
Nice pics! Anyone know if the factory EVO exhaust manifold will fit the SR20? Is it anywhere near close, or could an adapter plate be made up to fit the EVO turbs on the SR manifold? What about the EVO VI turbo, would this one be OK to use as I can get one fairly cheap. Thanks.

SR_S14Zenki
03-23-2006, 12:31 PM
Nice pics! Anyone know if the factory EVO exhaust manifold will fit the SR20? Is it anywhere near close, or could an adapter plate be made up to fit the EVO turbs on the SR manifold? What about the EVO VI turbo, would this one be OK to use as I can get one fairly cheap. Thanks.



No don't do that regardless if it fits with an adaptor plate...YUCK!! Go custom...the EVOIV turbo might not be twin scroll...id get the EVO IX turbo...

slw240sx
03-30-2006, 12:14 AM
well happend to trade up to a EvoVIII turbo with a customer of mine, its under 1K miles and cost me nothing at all since the evoIII i was running was a freebee. this is my first version of the manifold for the CA18det. wont have any dyno numbers for a while since i have to install and tune a megasquirt in the car in the next few weeks.

http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/500/19470evo8topviewincar.jpg
http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/500/19470jonsevo8.jpg
http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/546/19470evo_back.jpg http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/500/19470evo_turbo_man1.jpg

SR_S14Zenki
03-30-2006, 01:39 PM
looks nice!

nrgonline
04-01-2006, 05:13 AM
slw240sx, very nice; but one problem. The oil drain for that turbo is facing the wrong way http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Unless you clock it correctly

slw240sx
04-01-2006, 12:47 PM
good eye! yeah i havnt clocked the turbo yet. ill take it apart when i goto mount it and clock the compressor housing and the center section where they need to be. on DSM turbos they have an alignment pin that you have to shave off so that you can clock the rear housing. just havnt had time to take it apart.

jon

johnc
10-24-2006, 05:45 AM
Bringing this back to life.
A quote from a thread I started on Zilvia:


Hi.

I am having a shop make me an exhaust manifold so I can
get a evo 8/9 twin scroll top mounted on my car. I know exactly what these turbos can do.
I have an HKS gt-ss sitting around with cams and
more waiting to be installed but due to the fact that I have
a spare longblock they can work on I will wait and see what can be done. There
is a thread on FA regarding this exact issue and it generated
a lot of interest. I even had my friend contact full-race about
them doing this but they require, as they should, the car
to be at their location which for me is not really an option.
The shop making this is manufacturing and exporting many xhaust
manifolds for EU cars and hondas. They only use thick SS of
the higher grade which I cant recall what it is at this time.
the manifold will be constructed to keep the true twin scroll functionality
otherwise it will not be worth the trouble. The shop does not mass produce.
They are very quality minded.
So who wants a twinscroll turbo with amazing spool up and near 400hp
capability for their SR?
Just to let you know, if you do not, a new EVO 8 turbo costs just $549!!!
An EVO 9 turbo with 10.5 turbine housing upgrade is only 899$!!!!
I do not think that can be beat, as far as turbos go , for spool up and power
potential all in one. I would go for a Evo 9 turbo since it is better in every way.

Tell me what you think.

slw240sx
10-25-2006, 02:09 AM
i finished my manifold a while back. i just built the downpipe for it. i havn't had a chance to get it all reinstalled. i will be putting it back on wensday night. the last few weeks have been hectic since im moving my shop to a diff building so there has been very little spare time...

camera phone pic. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/phoneca18det-1.jpg



after welding it all the runners wouldnt fit back onto the head flange ( i failed to follow a good sequence or properly fixture it when welding). runners 1&4 were too short and sat on 2&3. i ended up cuttin off material towards the head flange about 1/2" or so which brought the exhaust housing 1-2mm from the valve cover. reluctantly i welded a second head flange to the manifold and surfaced it flat which gave me the needed clearance.

im not really happy with the quality of the welds on it, i welded it togther in april and since then have had alot more experiance with welding the thick SS and they are much nicer. Im just way to busy to remake it. i really want to get the thing running and get it on the dyno.



http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/Evo8ca18detmanifold.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/bareEvo8setup.jpg

johnc
10-25-2006, 05:38 AM
Props for even trying it and good thing you
did not give up.
And I hope you can get it tuned/dynod soon.
I have no welding skills at all!
Once the shop is done with the prototype
I will post up some pics. Maybe you would
like to send me a CA flange, or head to mani gasket
and you will get to test one of the headers the
shop will produce? After you see the work
they have done on mine ofcourse. I wouldnt ask
but no CA over here.

sr20xs
10-27-2006, 07:44 AM
Great to see its still happening. Terrific fabrication! Keep us posted.

240x2
10-27-2006, 08:48 AM
Since I live in Puerto Rico I have the pleasure to get the magazine called Super Compacto which means (Super Compact) .In the last magazine they show a S14 Silvia running a RB25DET etc js like mine except I run a RB20 ,neways they also show a Evo VIII or IX sponsored by Injen pushing almost near 400 whp using the stock turbo,the car is running 11.6 sec 1/4 mile ,I will post the mods if u guys want them neways this is js for kicks ...here is a link the cover of the magazine :

http://www.supercompacto.com/proxima%20sc/sc23/Portada%20Internet%20F5.jpg
plz dont jak off while your wife is at home lol!