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M_TYPE_X
06-12-2005, 03:34 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050612/ap_on_el_ge/cheney_dean_1



"I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell," Cheney said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."

Irie_eyes
06-12-2005, 05:42 PM
The vice president added: "I really think Howard Dean's over the top. And more important ... I think many of his fellow Democrats feel the same way."



Jumped on the opportunity from older news



Democrats Criticize Dean Attacks on GOP (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/fc/US/democratic_party/news_stories/*http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=1&u=/ap/20050605/ap_on_el_ge/democrats_dean_3)
...
Dean "doesn't speak for me with that kind of rhetoric and I don't think he speaks for the majority of Democrats," Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."
...
Responding to Dean's initial remark, Edwards said Dean "is not the spokesman for the party."
Dean is "a voice. I don't agree with it," Edwards, a former senator and the Democrats' vice presidential nominee in 2004, said Saturday at a party fundraising dinner in Nashville, Tenn




In other news



Bush ready to consider alternatives to Guantanamo

"Bush said: "We're exploring all alternatives as to how best to do the main objective, which is to protect America. What we don't want to do is let somebody out that comes back and harms us."

"I know of no one in the US government in the executive branch that is considering closing Guantanamo. It is unfortunately something that is necessary in the world we're living in," Rumsfeld told reporters in Stavanger, Norway"

"Vice President [censored] Cheney said Sunday there are no plans for now to shutter the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay where terrorism suspects are held. "

twelve_thirty_flight
06-12-2005, 09:41 PM
"I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell," Cheney said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."



(1) Five governor races counts as winning something, and only a thug like Cheney would bring up somebody's mother in an insult.


(2) To date, I don't think Dean's comments are of much consequence to either party, save for the effect they've had in energizing part of his base.

This hasn't stopped the media from looking for a sequel to the scream story that gave them so much mileage -- never mind it was manufactured in the mixing booth -- it was commercial paydirt.

The Republicans are more nervous about Dean than they let on. There's gotta be some kind of irony in having Cheney question Dean's appeal. I mean, Mr. Permanent Scowl "you-damn-kids-get-off-my-lawn" and "go-f*ck-yourself-senator-Leahy" never scores high himself on personal appeal surveys. That's why he's only the Vice and not the Prez (in public anyway).

The fact is, if Dean were really that far out, the Republicans wouldn't be putting out heavy artillary like Cheney to tell us all what to think. Oh, and did you notice what's happening? We the sheeple are talking about personalities again instead of issues. Ask yourself who benefits from this.

M_TYPE_X
06-12-2005, 09:51 PM
Ask yourself who benefits from this.




'You damn kids get off my lawn!' http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Lord_Vader
06-13-2005, 08:18 AM
http://www.photodump.com/direct/shlub/cheneypalpatine1.jpg



Mr. Permanent Scowl "you-damn-kids-get-off-my-lawn" and "go-f*ck-yourself-senator-Leahy"

kennycrudup
06-13-2005, 11:10 AM
What you said, 12:30. I was listening to Dean shut down Matt Lauer on the "Today" show last week when Lauer was grilling him on his "the GOP is the party of White Christians". Even if 80% of the Hispanics voted for him, hasn't "Today" heard of this thing called "overwhelming majority"?

Does the fact that there's been a few short players like Bogues negate the fact that Basketball is the sport of tall guys, for example?

armalite
06-13-2005, 12:07 PM
What you said, 12:30. I was listening to Dean shut down Matt Lauer on the "Today" show last week when Lauer was grilling him on his "the GOP is the party of White Christians". Even if 80% of the Hispanics voted for him, hasn't "Today" heard of this thing called "overwhelming majority"?

Does the fact that there's been a few short players like Bogues negate the fact that Basketball is the sport of tall guys, for example?



Turning into Eastern European tall guys lol

Magellan
06-13-2005, 04:25 PM
The Republicans are more nervous about Dean than they let on.


Once again, some liberals cannot see the forest for the trees. The fact is the Republicans are delighted that Howard Dean is DNC chairman, and want him to continue there. His flapping gums will get him and the Democratic party into trouble over and over again, losing swing votes and contributions in the process.

A good example of Deanís foot-in-mouth disease is last week when he labeled the Republicans as mostly white-Christian. Hmm, doesnít he know that the Chairman of the RNC, Ken Mehlman, is Jewish? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

M_TYPE_X
06-13-2005, 07:14 PM
A good example of Deanís foot-in-mouth disease is last week when he labeled the Republicans as mostly white-Christian. Hmm, doesnít he know that the Chairman of the RNC, Ken Mehlman, is Jewish? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif




It's not completely acceptable yet in America to call for Judenrein hier, Judenrein dort (as it is in Europe, i.e. France). Heck, you get on me anytime I talk about anything related to Jews. I'm like, Mage buddy, get off my a$$, I'm not calling for anything more than making sure the Jewish American Princesses don't run over people in their Lexuses as they blather on their cell phones.

If Dean thought he could get away with it, he'd attack the entire religious spectrum of anyone right-of-center.

kennycrudup
06-13-2005, 08:22 PM
A good example of Dean’s foot-in-mouth disease is last week when he labeled the Republicans as mostly white-Christian. Hmm, doesn’t he know that the Chairman of the RNC, Ken Mehlman, is Jewish? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif



Uh, and how does that small datapoint AT FREAKIN' ALL discount his remarks?

Hell, I'm Black and Atheist and most times vote "R"- and Dean WAS RIGHT. Sheeesh, Magellan!

armalite
06-14-2005, 03:45 AM
What kind of doctor was Dean before he got into politics? What kind of bedside manner did this guy have LOL. He's a nut and Hillary will use this to her advantage by looking like someone very normal who will rescue all people from the right wing and left wing nuts. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

M_TYPE_X
06-14-2005, 08:39 AM
What kind of doctor was Dean before he got into politics? What kind of bedside manner did this guy have LOL. He's a nut and Hillary will use this to her advantage by looking like someone very normal who will rescue all people from the right wing and left wing nuts. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif



Hillary to the Rescue! Rated R for Republicans Screwed.

M_TYPE_X
06-14-2005, 08:41 AM
Hell, I'm Black and Atheist and most times vote "R"- and Dean WAS RIGHT. Sheeesh, Magellan!



That's okay, Mage hasn't called me anti-semitic yet. This thread ain't over by a longshot.

Magellan
06-14-2005, 09:47 AM
A good example of Deanís foot-in-mouth disease is last week when he labeled the Republicans as mostly white-Christian. Hmm, doesnít he know that the Chairman of the RNC, Ken Mehlman, is Jewish? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif




It's not completely acceptable yet in America to call for Judenrein hier, Judenrein dort (as it is in Europe, i.e. France). Heck, you get on me anytime I talk about anything related to Jews. I'm like, Mage buddy, get off my a$$, I'm not calling for anything more than making sure the Jewish American Princesses don't run over people in their Lexuses as they blather on their cell phones.

If Dean thought he could get away with it, he'd attack the entire religious spectrum of anyone right-of-center.


This may come as a surprise to you, but my post was not directed at you. I hate to break this news, but youíre not the almighty center of attention around here. As with other trolls, itís best to just ignore your often unintelligible posts. But in this case, I wanted to make a comment on Dr. Dean.

I wanted to say how silly his remark was, considering the head of the RNC, being one of the principal leaders of the party, is not a Christian at all, and how Dean can alienate a whole group of people with one stupid bomb toss. His other comment about ďMost Republicans havenít worked a day in their lifeĒ is equally laughable. The way I see it, the Dems are stuck with him until 2006 when they may suffer more losses in the congressional elections, and then theyíll toss him out. And like I said, most Republicans will hate to see him go. But there's still hope: Maybe theyíll bring in Barbara Streisand! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

M_TYPE_X
06-14-2005, 10:08 AM
Magellan is really an automated forumbot planted by FOX News. I mean, even I saw that Barbra Streisand joke coming.

Now, unlike Mage here, I can actually do analysis over & above repeating the standard fare right-wing talking points. My analysis is thus: both conservatives and libertarian types are quite dissatisfied with the current party leadership, if not the administration itself as well, and will vote by staying home and eating cheesy poofs in 2006 and possibly 2008 (if trends continue).

Notice that I don't provide any argumentative support for my thesis here whatsoever (okay, so I pulled it off of Stephen Moore's talking points in yesterday's WSJ). I think it's a valid argument though. Cuz I'd 'throw the rascals out' if I had any say.

kennycrudup
06-14-2005, 12:10 PM
I wanted to say how silly his remark was, considering the head of the RNC, being one of the principal leaders of the party, is not a Christian at all


It's not the least bit "silly"; I'm dying to hear your rationale for disputing his comments about the overall makeup of the GOP.

Irie_eyes
06-14-2005, 12:25 PM
Ironically, Mage is acting like the Howard Dean of FA.

Magellan
06-14-2005, 03:39 PM
I wanted to say how silly his remark was, considering the head of the RNC, being one of the principal leaders of the party, is not a Christian at all


It's not the least bit "silly"; I'm dying to hear your rationale for disputing his comments about the overall makeup of the GOP.


My rationale for disputing Deanís comment is that like any large organization, the GOP is made up of several races, ethnicities, religions, etc. Yes, there are even gay Republicans. To say itís monolithic is not only false and, frankly, ignorant, but can be insulting to itís various sub-groups who are neither white or Christian.

If you believe that Republicans ARE all white Christians, in spite of the GOP getting 11% of the black vote and countless votes from non-Christians including those without any religion at all in 2004, then you have the same illogical bias as Howard Dean. Perhaps the majority of Republicans are white-Christians, but thatís a specious argument, because the same could be said for the Democratic party, or for the whole country for that matter.

Certainly such comments have the affect of turning off potential swing votes and contributions for Democrats in the next election. And this is why leading Democrats, who know better than to say such things, are shaking their heads in dismay.

kennycrudup
06-14-2005, 03:53 PM
If you believe that Republicans ARE all white Christians



?!

Do you READ the threads thru before you start to type, Magellan?!

In case you don't:

- Even your quote of Dean's remarks said "mostly", which is TRUE
- I'm a Republican, too, and neither White nor Christian

Magellan
06-14-2005, 04:16 PM
If you believe that Republicans ARE all white Christians




Do you READ the threads thru before you start to type, Magellan?!

In case you don't:

- Even your quote of Dean's remarks said "mostly", which is TRUE
- I'm a Republican, too, and neither White nor Christian


I donít understand what the problem is here. We both agree that the Republican party may have a majority of white-Christians. But what does that have to do with Howard Dean saying itís a white-Christian party? Like I said before, you could say that about the Democratic party and the USA population as a whole, making his comments misleading and just plain stupid.

If you disagree, fine. Continue to encourage him on. We love it.

kennycrudup
06-14-2005, 04:44 PM
Like I said before, you could say that about the Democratic party and the USA population as a whole, making his comments misleading and just plain stupid.


So, why do they ire the Republicans so much, then, if they're so "stupid"? I suspect the problem is they hit too close to home. I'm sure the GOP is "Whiter" than the Dems, as well.

Dean is exactly what the Dems need; after fielding so many bland candidates they're starting to get buried in their own mediocrity. I like the fact that he speaks his mind and he's got a strong opinion on stuff- I'm so very sick of "unobtrusive" politicians.

Magellan
06-14-2005, 05:42 PM
So, why do they ire the Republicans so much, then, if they're so "stupid"?


Perhaps I shouldnít lest it spoil the fun, but let me tell you whatís really going on here:

1. Dean says something outrageous.
2. A Republican, like the Vice President, responds.
3. Dean lashes back, digging himself a deeper hole.
4. The issue becomes a major news story. Everyone now knows what Dean said.
5. Republicans come out ahead.


So, Deanís comments do not upset Republicans. Theyíre just baiting him to say more.

Meanwhile prominent Democrats like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi have said publicly in so many words, ďHoward, put a sock in it.Ē

No, weíre not upset, weíre enjoying it too much. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kennycrudup
06-14-2005, 05:52 PM
2. A Republican, like the Vice President, responds.


What's funny is the VP's remarks were totally ad-hominem and false ("best as I know, he's never been elected to anything") and he gets a free pass on that. "To the victor go the spoils", I guess.



3. Dean lashes back, digging himself a deeper hole.


Sez you. "Today"'s Matt Lauer tried to get into him, and Dean shut him completely down.



4. The issue becomes a major news story. Everyone now knows what Dean said.


Er, isn't that the point of what Dean is trying to do?!



5. Republicans come out ahead.


In a self-mastubatory way, I suppose. This "ahead" is via which poll?



Meanwhile prominent Democrats like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi have said publicly in so many words, “Howard, put a sock in it.”


The kind of bland, wimpy politicians who can't get elected? The OLD face of the Democratic party? Yeah, Dean needs to make sure he's 180 from those guys.

I say "Keep it up, Howard!". The fact that he can't sneeze without someone in the GOP feeling they have to attack back is good, and hopefully he'll be able to muster other Democrats from hiding behind their mommys' aprons.

Magellan
06-14-2005, 06:38 PM
This "ahead" is via which poll?


Check back with me in 2006. I think Iíll have something for you.

jasonj75
06-15-2005, 09:46 AM
The kind of bland, wimpy politicians who can't get elected? The OLD face of the Democratic party? Yeah, Dean needs to make sure he's 180 from those guys.



Exactly how are Dean's comments going to get anyone elected? His comments are divisive and mean spirited which will only serve to push the middle right and give the left hard ons.

M_TYPE_X
06-15-2005, 01:27 PM
Divisive is cool. The problem is, Dean is a caricature of someone who is actually polemic. The guy gets red-faced when shouting ... and he looks like a cheap cartoon.

Jon_86
06-15-2005, 01:39 PM
Thought I'd drop in to see if 'armalite' and 'Magellan' are as stupid as ever...thanks fellas, you never let me down! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

M_TYPE_X
06-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Thought I'd drop in to see if 'armalite' and 'Magellan' are as stupid as ever...thanks fellas, you never let me down! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif



If you're gonna drop in to be entertained, you can't exactly get laughs for free. You need to click to view on the ad before doing so: "calling could save you 15% or more on car insurance" ... okay, click PROCEED.

armalite
06-15-2005, 03:26 PM
Thought I'd drop in to see if 'armalite' and 'Magellan' are as stupid as ever...thanks fellas, you never let me down! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif



uh yeah quick change back to someone else and get back under the bridge.

kennycrudup
06-15-2005, 04:10 PM
Exactly how are Dean's comments going to get anyone elected?


Swing voters who hate wimpy Democrats who take fecal matter from the R and just sit there.

Saying that the GOP is overwhelmingly White Christians isn't going to do that- but establishing a new Dem platform that says "We're not the old set of losers" has to start somewhere.

moorefire
06-16-2005, 07:22 AM
Exactly how are Dean's comments going to get anyone elected?


Swing voters who hate wimpy Democrats who take fecal matter from the R and just sit there.

Saying that the GOP is overwhelmingly White Christians isn't going to do that- but establishing a new Dem platform that says "We're not the old set of losers" has to start somewhere.



America loves a straight shooting meathead.

M_TYPE_X
06-16-2005, 07:43 AM
America loves a straight shooting meathead.



Usually rewarded with fame and/or PROFIT.

Irie_eyes
06-16-2005, 11:05 PM
This "ahead" is via which poll?


Check back with me in 2006. I think Iíll have something for you.




LOL.

"Well, we went in to Iraq because of 'WMD' but there aren't any, so now we are stuck with our men and women dying in Iraq...but Howard Dean said all those mean things about GOP. I'm voting Republican!"

But hell, the way many Republicans don't got integrity or understand what America's about (but act like it) anything can happen.

Magellan
06-17-2005, 09:22 AM
This "ahead" is via which poll?


Check back with me in 2006. I think Iíll have something for you.



LOL.

"Well, we went in to Iraq because of 'WMD' but there aren't any, so now we are stuck with our men and women dying in Iraq...but Howard Dean said all those mean things about GOP. I'm voting Republican!"

But hell, the way many Republicans don't got integrity or understand what America's about (but act like it) anything can happen.


Itís true that if weíre not able to get our troops out of Iraq and achieve stability there it looks bad for another Republican White House in 2008. But as far as Howard Dean is concerned, if he continues his bubble-lipped bomb throwing regarding hateful Republicans being mostly white-Christians who never worked a day in their life, then it will cost the Democrats campaign contributions and countless votes in 2006.

In this regard, the Republicans would come out ahead by keeping their majorities in both houses, and Dean will be reminded not to let the door hit him in the a$$ on the way out.

Irie_eyes
06-17-2005, 10:11 AM
I dunno man, I've been reading some stuff that shows some division within the GOP.
What I noticed is that the GOP is unified and come together rather than critize each other. That is good because it's a force to reckon with election year.
The bad is they won't critize each other. What's worst is saying anything for the sake of being elected.
What's gonna matter more is the candidates for president.

M_TYPE_X
06-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Mage admitted that all is not well for the Republicans come 2008... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif