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oztiks
07-03-2005, 11:22 AM
Why is there an LED over the left door handle, but not the right? It seems really off balance to me?

Why is the aux input for the display on the rear of the center/console, and not IN the center console? seems kind of.. awkward..

Why is the locking system so poorly engineered? My GS did auto locking and auto unlock when you pulled the door handle - the Infiniti does neither, which just seems like a total oversight.. (this is kind of a rhetorical one.. )

Why is the air conditioner 'smog sensor' so spastic? "my lexus" seems to be much more refined in the way it functions for that, whereas the infiniti never seems to really be able to decide (exterior air almost always, i normally have to manually switch it when there is some kind of foul smell outside.. )

Neat lexus things that infiniti should steal:

When you depress the button on the driver's side to lock the passenger windows, the lights for the passenger window controls on your side, and all the passengers side go out. I find this particularly neat - not required, but a nice touch.


I realize none of these are earth shattering issues - just my kind of list of "my car would be even MORE perfect, if.."

Mike_TX
07-03-2005, 05:04 PM
Why is there an LED over the left door handle, but not the right? It seems really off balance to me?

Why is the aux input for the display on the rear of the center/console, and not IN the center console? seems kind of.. awkward..

Why is the locking system so poorly engineered? My GS did auto locking and auto unlock when you pulled the door handle - the Infiniti does neither, which just seems like a total oversight.. (this is kind of a rhetorical one.. )

Why is the air conditioner 'smog sensor' so spastic? "my lexus" seems to be much more refined in the way it functions for that, whereas the infiniti never seems to really be able to decide (exterior air almost always, i normally have to manually switch it when there is some kind of foul smell outside.. )

Neat lexus things that infiniti should steal:

When you depress the button on the driver's side to lock the passenger windows, the lights for the passenger window controls on your side, and all the passengers side go out. I find this particularly neat - not required, but a nice touch.


I realize none of these are earth shattering issues - just my kind of list of "my car would be even MORE perfect, if.."




You probably won't like my answers, but here's my guess:

LED only on driver's side because it's a driver's car. Passengers don't need (or get) as much assist, since they aren't preoccupied by driving the car and can find the controls without extra lighting.

Aux input on back of console because it's intended that it be used for backseat passengers. Drivers aren't supposed to be jacking around with plug-in audio/video devices while trying to drive. Video for frontseat occupants is illegal in almost every state anyway.

Auto-locking is a personal preference thing (and I'm well-documented as absolutely despising it), but I would agree it would be nice to be able to activate it from the menus if one desired to. Unlock when pulling inside door handle - I agree. I assume they thought it was a safety thing, but that's just a guess. Other Nissan vehicle DO unlock when the handle is pulled, so this is oviously something they did on purpose. Since I do not allow myself to be locked in while driving, this has never come up with me, and I didn't even realize it was the case until you mentioned it.

The A/C on most vehicles is biased *strongly* toward "fresh air", and cycle off "recirculate" as soon as the interior is cooled or heated to the desired temp. They just don't want us breathing that stale air, you know. As for systems that automatically detect pollutants or bad odors and switch to recirc., they're few and far between. I know my Beemer was supposed to do that, but generally did not. And if you (or a passenger) farted ... sorry, but it happens http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif ... the system would sometimes keep it inside. Yikes! It takes only a quick punch to switch it, so it's not really a biggie IMO.

The pass window lockout? Never use it myself, but I suppose if you have rugrats it might be useful. And while it's clever to extinguish the lights for it, that's good only at night, and the rugrats probably wouldn't appreciate the cleverness anyway. You know how rugrats are.

It goes without saying that Infiniti hasn't thought of every last thing ... and as you said, no car is totally perfect. I expect to see several refinements in the next couple of model years, and maybe some of yours will be addressed then ...

Kefer
07-03-2005, 05:43 PM
Mike answered those pretty well, I would just like to add that I find it very strange that pulling on the door handle to unlock the door doesn't work in the M, especially since it in fact DOES work that way in the FX...the last car Infiniti designed before the M. I'm sure they have a good reason for changing it, but for the life of me I don't know why and wish they had left well enough alone.

oztiks
07-03-2005, 06:01 PM
Mike answered those pretty well, I would just like to add that I find it very strange that pulling on the door handle to unlock the door doesn't work in the M, especially since it in fact DOES work that way in the FX...the last car Infiniti designed before the M. I'm sure they have a good reason for changing it, but for the life of me I don't know why and wish they had left well enough alone.



I'm glad you confirmed that for me. I traded my FX for an M and could have sworn it did that; glad i'm not totally nuts.

oztiks
07-03-2005, 06:12 PM
You probably won't like my answers, but here's my guess:

LED only on driver's side because it's a driver's car. Passengers don't need (or get) as much assist, since they aren't preoccupied by driving the car and can find the controls without extra lighting.

Aux input on back of console because it's intended that it be used for backseat passengers. Drivers aren't supposed to be jacking around with plug-in audio/video devices while trying to drive. Video for frontseat occupants is illegal in almost every state anyway.

..

The A/C on most vehicles is biased *strongly* toward "fresh air", and cycle off "recirculate" as soon as the interior is cooled or heated to the desired temp. They just don't want us breathing that stale air, you know. As for systems that automatically detect pollutants or bad odors and switch to recirc., they're few and far between. I know my Beemer was supposed to do that, but generally did not. And if you (or a passenger) farted ... sorry, but it happens http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif ... the system would sometimes keep it inside. Yikes! It takes only a quick punch to switch it, so it's not really a biggie IMO.

The pass window lockout? Never use it myself, but I suppose if you have rugrats it might be useful. And while it's clever to extinguish the lights for it, that's good only at night, and the rugrats probably wouldn't appreciate the cleverness anyway. You know how rugrats are.

It goes without saying that Infiniti hasn't thought of every last thing ... and as you said, no car is totally perfect. I expect to see several refinements in the next couple of model years, and maybe some of yours will be addressed then ...



The door lighting thing just looks 'funny' to me, eg off-balance (one light on the left and none on the right).. just seems peculiar.

Yeah, i know everyone has different views on the locking thing - but a few weeks ago a hooker tried to get in my car at a gas station as I was pulling up to it - fortunately I am in the habit of locking my doors so it wasn't an issue, otherwise she would have been too close for comfort http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

The window lock button/light disabling thing is certainly nothing more than a 'refinement' that is by no means necessary, but fun to play with http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The other thing I just thought of is I tend to find the headlights a bit "incorrect" regardless of how I configure them sensitivity wise. They seem to either come on too early or too late. The other problem I find is when I turn on the wipers I am faced with the problem of having to do 'too many things' - the nav goes dark because I leave it on auto, so I have to switch that, and the gauges go almost unreadable because it normally isn't dark enough outside for them to be viewable.

"Other manufacturers" (lexus is my comparison) seem to have lighting sensors that pretty much override certain things for this alone - eg, the < 2004 GS would SLIGHTLY dim the gauge cluster when you turned the lights on but heavily decided what to do based on ambient lighting - it worked *great* all the time. I hope to see this kind of thing in the next M.

I had seen someone else comment on making the nav go dark at dusk via GPS rather than based on what the headlights are doing - that seems like a clever idea, actually.. perhaps making the headlights have an option to function like that, too, would be interesting. Hmm. I wonder.... .... ... ...

Q2M_from_LS430
07-03-2005, 07:04 PM
I agree with Mikeís answers, and oztiks, I know you're not knocking the M.

But, for the benefit of lurkers who might get the wrong idea from this thread, let me just say that, when it comes to features, coddling and finesse, the M beats GS by a very large margin, IMO.

Hereís a partial list of some significant features, and coddling available on the M that are not available on the GS:

- Seating room for 5 large adults (comparable to an LS rather than GS)
- Voice entry of NAV destinations (I just love it and itís a great benefit when driving- you don't have to pull over as with the GS)
- Customizable Three Dimensional NAV views (Provides greater detail up close while providing much more distance info. And it's beautiful.) Many more NAV advantages here.
- Voice entry for Telephone dialing
- Audio inputs for iPods (For the many, many millions of ipod lovers, this is huge)
- CD player plays MP3/WMA for 100 Hrs of CD music in your changer rather than 6 hrs
- Overhead DVD including PlayStation inputs for the kids
- Steering wheel control of the carís entire menu system
- Air Conditioned Front Seats (in addition to heated front seats)
- Reclining Rear seats, & Rear Audio controls for VIP passengers
- Lane Departure Warning (making me a better driver already)
- Adaptive Steering
- Adaptive headlights
- Rev Matching Manual Shifter
- Control console that minimizes dangerous time staring at a screen while driving

Its very hard to find anything on the GS not available on the M.


Pete

oztiks
07-03-2005, 09:06 PM
I agree with Mikeís answers, and oztiks, I know you're not knocking the M.

But, for the benefit of lurkers who might get the wrong idea from this thread, let me just say that, when it comes to features, coddling and finesse, the M beats GS by a very large margin, IMO.

Hereís a partial list of some significant features, and coddling available on the M that are not available on the GS:

- Seating room for 5 large adults (comparable to an LS rather than GS)


4 large adults, really http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif


- Air Conditioned Front Seats (in addition to heated front seats)


Gs has this


- Lane Departure Warning (making me a better driver already)


Lexus has their crazy VDIM, which is totally different than above but a comparable 'safety feature'


- Adaptive Steering


GS has Variable ratio steering, instead (again, different but comparable)


- Adaptive headlights


GS has this


- Control console that minimizes dangerous time staring at a screen while driving


Debatable that the lexus system isn't equally easy. I think their touch screen implementation is superb


Its very hard to find anything on the GS not available on the M.


Pete


[QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong, I *OWN* an M. I love it, I just think Infiniti can truly steal even more of the Lexus market with some subtle changes..

oztiks
07-03-2005, 09:16 PM
Oh yeah.. and for the record, every time I drive my car, I find myself not wanting to stop. I also find myself wanting to go out and find reasons to drive it when I'm not - kind of like those volkswagen(??) commercials, so don't mistake my constructive criticism for hate, it's anything but that.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Although, perhaps bad PR will keep people from buying them and will keep the "exclusivity" factor up http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Q2M_from_LS430
07-03-2005, 10:18 PM
OK, As I said I know you're not knocking the M. But Iíll continue for the record.

- Adaptive Headlights: Youíre right on that one.

- Seating: You might debate the five LARGE adults (if you must), but the point stands that the M has a GREAT deal more room, which is comparable to the LS rather the GS.

- Air Conditioned Front Seats Ė GS DOESNíT have this, theyíve got only HEATED seats, which the M also has. check their web site. (http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/specifications.html)

- Lane Departure Warning- VDIM is not in any way comparable to LDW, itís comparable to VDC which the M also has, but can be shut OFF, while VDIM can not. LDW warns you when you drift over lanes without a blinker.

- Adaptive Steering: Variable ratio steering is NOT comparable to Adaptive steering. Iím referring to the rear wheelís ability to turn for better handling: GS has nothing like it. M has the variable steering assist as well.

- Control console: As far as the relative safety of instant access to controls you can operate by feel, as opposed to layers of screen menus, I really donít see how one can debate the point.


OK, so on those 15 features, weíll scratch one and agree to strongly disagree on another.

That leaves 13 or 14 for the M, with no GS advantages found.

BTW, I certainly believe you love your M. I love mine like crazy, as well. And in case you hadnít noticed it, Iíve had a few Lexii myself.

Pete

oztiks
07-03-2005, 10:26 PM
OK, As I said I know you're not knocking the M. But Iíll continue for the record.

- Adaptive Headlights: Youíre right on that one.

- Seating: You may debate the five large adults, but the point stands that thereís a GREAT deal more room on the M, and itís MUCH closer to the LS.

- Air Conditioned Front Seats Ė GS DOESNíT have this, theyíve got only HEATED seats. check their web site. (http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/specifications.html)



http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/interior.html#heated




- Lane Departure Warning- VDIM is not in any way comparable to LDW, itís comparable to VDC which the M also has, but can be shut OFF, while VDIM can not. LDW warns you when you drift over lanes without a blinker.

- Adaptive Steering: Variable ratio steering is NOT comparable to Adaptive steering. Iím referring to the rear wheelís ability to turn for better handling: GS has nothing like it. M has the variable steering assist as well.

- Control console: As far as the relative safety of instant access to controls you can operate by feel, as opposed to layers of screen menus, I really donít see how one can debate the point.


OK, so on those 15 features, weíll scratch one and agree to strongly disagree on another.

That leaves 13 or 14 for the M.

BTW, I certainly believe you love your M. I love mine like crazy, as well. And in case you hadnít noticed it, Iíve had a few Lexii myself.

Pete









As for the rest of the "specific" feature comparisons, I was only giving *very* generic counter comparisons.. anyway, my point was the GS is not in any way devoid of technology, and the M is by no means either - and clearly I prefer the M, as I bought one.. case closed

Q2M_from_LS430
07-04-2005, 12:48 AM
- Air Conditioned Front Seats Ė GS DOESNíT have this, theyíve got only HEATED seats. check their web site. (http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/specifications.html)



http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/interior.html#heated







What's the idea with the quoted link? It looks like a refutation but it's actually a confirmation. Were you admitting you were wrong? Hard to tell.

Pete

oztiks
07-04-2005, 01:42 AM
- Air Conditioned Front Seats Ė GS DOESNíT have this, theyíve got only HEATED seats. check their web site. (http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/specifications.html)



http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/interior.html#heated







What's the idea with the quoted link? It looks like a refutation but it's actually a confirmation. Were you admitting you were wrong? Hard to tell.

Pete






I'm guessing you didn't demo the car yourself (I did), it has airconditioned seats. Here is the text taken directly from the URL I linked above:

Heated/Ventilated Front Seats
Standard on the GS, heated front seats are a feature both you and your passenger will find nothing short of extraordinary on a chilly day. Available ventilated seats are perfect during warmer weather since the seats can be cooled by fans that circulate air through the seat cushion.

And here's a review that mentions them:

http://www.lexus.com/models/gs/road_test.html
Search for the word "ventilated" in the article above

And
Lexus GS builder (http://www.lexus.com/lexusConfigApp/index.jsp?modelName=GS&modelCode=93)

Enter your zip code, select any model. Notice the "ventilated seats" item that is under all the available package sections...

Q2M_from_LS430
07-04-2005, 02:38 AM
Ventilation is not AC: For the GS seats, it's a fan.

(Here's a web definition:
The replacement of stale or noxious air with fresh air.)


Pete

oztiks
07-04-2005, 09:41 AM
You had posted a quite unfriendly response initially which I see you edited http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif ANyway, this point, if nothing else, is misunderstanding on my part. I myself am certainly under the impression that the lexus "ventilation" works in the same way that the infiniti does for the seats. If that is incorrect then I am certainly wrong and have no problem with that - I was just under the impression, having been in the car, that it was the same.

FikseGTS
07-04-2005, 11:19 AM
the ventilated front seats on the GS and ES feel the same as on my M..... not sure if they bring in air from the AC or not....

Q2M_from_LS430
07-04-2005, 01:34 PM
The M's AC seats can get very cold. Some folks have commented that their seats have gotten uncomfortably cold, and I've noticed that myself and have had to turn it down on occasion. It's not just ambient air, as is the case in the GS.

When I first looked at buying the 2002 Q45, it had only ventilated fronts seat, and the dealer had promised that future Q's would be getting the AC seats. And they did. I have yet to see a case where Infiniti has falsely represented themselves. (As they'd be doing if they called ventilated-seats AC-seats.)


Pete

FikseGTS
07-04-2005, 06:35 PM
not sure about the ES and GS, but I saw an LS seat taken apart for a Lexus driving event, it used peltiers, to cool the inside of the seat instead of AC air....

this was a while ago, so I'm not sure they still use this technology...

My M's seats defianetly get "cool", not just ventilated, I usually bump it down to the 1st setting after it get's cool enough....

Q2M_from_LS430
07-04-2005, 07:28 PM
not sure about the ES and GS, but I saw an LS seat taken apart for a Lexus driving event, it used peltiers, to cool the inside of the seat instead of AC air....

this was a while ago, so I'm not sure they still use this technology...

My M's seats defianetly get "cool", not just ventilated, I usually bump it down to the 1st setting after it get's cool enough....





All of the Lexus GS links point to specs where they talk about the fan circulating air or ventilated seats. There's no AC on the seats. If there were, they'd say it.

Pete