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View Full Version : relocated intercooler and blowthrough maf



cwdmark
07-22-2005, 10:52 PM
the last week or so i've been wanting to do something different with the car, and when my friend wanted my greddy vspl i jumped at the opportunity to do something with the new intercooler coming.

intercooler is an xspower bar & plate off of ssautochrome (ebay) 24x12x3. they make crappy manifolds and turbos, but i am extremely happy with this front mount. cold pipe is cool to the touch after beating on the car, and hot pipe is piping hot... before both were piping hot. it works phenomenally.

i placed the ic in front of the radiator... kind of stealing project silvia's idea. the idea of shortened piping for increased boost response got me thinking, and next thing i know i'm hacking up my pipes. i got just about everything to fit just by cutting the piping that came with the vspl kit, but the little elbow on cold side needed a straight 2" extension welded on and i had to get the cold pipe extension from summit. got all new silicon couplers all around and tbolt clamps (kept blowing and breaking worm clamps). i went with 2.5" on the cold side right off the turbo.

i've never seen anyone do shortened piping along with the blowthrough maf, so i figured what the hell. i had BARELY enough room to pull it off, but the tight 2.75" elbow made it work.

after picking up the final tbolt clamps today, i went for a drive... and turbo response can be described as amazing. the car just gets up and goes, hits very hard and continues the power throughout the whole band. it seems i gained a gob of low end torque and spoolup/response is greatly increased. in 1st gear where i used to have a noticeable amount of lag, it is now just about completely gone. 2nd gear is really, really fun http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif it also seems to pull much harder on the highway.


overall, very happy with the decision to do this!!! im not sure if i'll start a trend with the shortened piping/blowthrough maf................. but i highly recommend it. its a completely responsive turbo, and runs great without a retune.


some pics:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_402_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_403_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_404_full.jpg


some crappy videos

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=A0CF0F06-34FD-4270-BE95-9E658D2EFEA8

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=0E099FFF-1B2D-4F78-83CF-76B8A1D36F9F

_Nzo_
07-22-2005, 11:40 PM
Looks nice, did you have to do any tweaking after changing to blowthrough or did it work just the same as drawthrough?

cwdmark
07-22-2005, 11:43 PM
no tweaking yet. car appears to be running fine. i may make a run on the dyno later this week just to double check the af's.

_Def_
07-23-2005, 12:03 AM
Looks nice.

I've been meaning to go blow-through at some point, but I'm too much of a ***** to cut up my GReddy cold pipe in case it doesn't work... Do you have any problems with the charge pipes blowing off with the engine torquing?



I also like the idea of short charge pipes, but I still don't see how it makes that much of a difference. On most setups you only take away maybe 1-1.5 liters of volume, which isn't that huge. Yes, it will take some time to pressurize it, but if the turbo can accelerate quickly it shouldn't be too bothered by a little bit more volume when you lay on the loud pedal. Just what I think after doing some quick calcs in my head.

cwdmark
07-23-2005, 12:24 AM
I've been meaning to go blow-through at some point, but I'm too much of a ***** to cut up my GReddy cold pipe in case it doesn't work... Do you have any problems with the charge pipes blowing off with the engine torquing?



note all the tbolt clamps http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif there's no possible way you can do this setup without them, and there's really no way they can pop off now that they are on. i had major problems with the worm gear clamps, they would pop off almost instantly and break upon popping off, specifically on that tight bend on the cold pipe. when we welded on the extra 2" extension, the only thing that would blow off is where it connects to the maf adapter. now with all tbolt clamps everywhere, i've been boosting since afternoon, probably around 200mi and nothing has popped off yet, so it should be pretty good to go. hair spray does help it hold on a little tighter too, hehe.

yea, i pretty much cut up every single pipe, including the cold pipe. the only part i didn't use is the old hotpipe because it was only 2". i figured there's really nothing to "go wrong" other than hoses popping off.... which were addressed with the tclamps.

almost nothing is bead rolled and i still don't have a problem with anything popping off. as long as you have good hoses and they are clamped down real good, they aren't going anyplace.




I also like the idea of short charge pipes, but I still don't see how it makes that much of a difference. On most setups you only take away maybe 1-1.5 liters of volume, which isn't that huge. Yes, it will take some time to pressurize it, but if the turbo can accelerate quickly it shouldn't be too bothered by a little bit more volume when you lay on the loud pedal. Just what I think after doing some quick calcs in my head.


putting math aside, and have driven the car before and after....... it is quite a noticeable difference. one local shop thinks it's due to the short piping (roughly half of what was on before, maybe even less), and the other shop thinks its because of the relocated maf.

im not sure which it is, but the car feels much faster. spools faster and more powerful.. almost as though i've gained 15-20whp (probably not the story, but the response really makes it feel that way).

it would be neat if someone can do the math on this..

killjoy
07-23-2005, 06:27 AM
Mark, any pics of intercooler/radiator placement? Thanks.

91 240
07-23-2005, 08:37 AM
Mark, any pics of intercooler/radiator placement? Thanks.



Ditto!

cwdmark
07-23-2005, 09:23 AM
here's some better pics in the daylight

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_405_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_406_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_407_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_408_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_409_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_410_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_411_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_412_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_413_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/633000-633999/633231_414_full.jpg


also forgot to add, the car weighed in at 2540 last night w/ full interior http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif 5 gallons of gas in the tank, with the bigass tires on it. i can get it under 2500 without much trouble.

_Def_
07-23-2005, 02:12 PM
Sounds nice - maybe I'll do it on mine one of these days - but people do tend to really like the fireballs at the track. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

As far as the response - keep in mind that the MAF is now posing MUCH less restriction than it was pre-turbo. So the turbo will not have to "spin up" to a higher pressure ratio(due to less pressure at the compressor inlet). There is some benefit to gain from the shorter piping, but I think it's overexagerated in a lot of cases since the volume saved is not really that large. The blow-through MAF seems like it'd give more gain by reducing pre-turbo restriction.



Think about it this way, if losing about 1-1.5 liters of piping volume really made such a huge difference, then if you had 3" charge pipes and added about double that amount you'd expect the boost to be VERY slow to build even with a smaller turbo like a T25/T28. I really doubt that's the case. Yes, it'll build just a hair slower, but we're talking hundredths of a second here.

sspikey
07-23-2005, 03:45 PM
Until you guys actually try V-Mount setup or Short ass i/c piping like his then you will see how responsive it really gets. The difference in transient response from throttle blips and general oncome of the power changes dramatically...Makes a much more manageable throttle. Every bit helps on tight narrow courses were response is king. Sadly were not all rich to build 250HP n/a motors.

Jsquared
07-23-2005, 03:53 PM
im not sure if i'll start a trend with the shortened piping/blowthrough maf


a) who gives a $^%# about "trends"
b) you act like this is something new



intercooler is an xspower bar & plate off of ssautochrome (ebay) 24x12x3. they make crappy manifolds and turbos, but i am extremely happy with this front mount.


a) not everything off ebay is ssautochrome
b) there is nothing wrong with the manifolds they've been selling for the past year or more
c) the "bad turbo" episode was a hoax intended to discredit ssautochrome and the stuff was actually from a competitor

now that that's out of the way http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif ... good call on the panels to keep air flowing through the radiator. any reservations about the draw-through? i've heard of some people blowing the plastic or the seals in the Z32 MAFS...

cwdmark
07-23-2005, 04:32 PM
b) you act like this is something new


it is. no one's ever done short ass piping and a blowthough maf, together. if they have, i'd love to see their setup http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif




a) not everything off ebay is ssautochrome
b) there is nothing wrong with the manifolds they've been selling for the past year or more
c) the "bad turbo" episode was a hoax intended to discredit ssautochrome and the stuff was actually from a competitor

now that that's out of the way http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif ... good call on the panels to keep air flowing through the radiator. any reservations about the draw-through? i've heard of some people blowing the plastic or the seals in the Z32 MAFS...


well i previously purchased an ssautochrome mani, i think everyone remembers the ssautocrap thread.. hence my experience with them. but i look at every one of their products differently because they are all indeed different products. as long as the welds are decent on these intercoolers and they have been pressure tested before sent out, they should work just fine. i have been very happy with ssautochrome's ic..

i blew the stock z32 seal (the ring) about 2 minutes after running it. i also blew out all the regular black silicone gasket i put on about the same time. had to take everything back off and get all that crap off, and seal it up with copper gasket rtv. no probs at all.


i think the maf combined with the piping really makes this thing move. it could be a combination of both. though i will miss the flameballs, they came on demand before http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif


why haven't more people done this?

cwdmark
07-23-2005, 06:58 PM
first casualty of this setup.... maf adapter cracked in a few places... but its one of those poorly made cheapo plastic ones off of ebay.

anyone know where to get a metal one?

edit: got one of those 8 hole'd ones from autozone and redrilled it. works perfect.

rs4race
07-23-2005, 09:17 PM
yah this isnt the first time this has been done. as a mater of fact Ive had this done for quite some time now. I love how sleeper it makes your car.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/rs4race/100_7790.jpg

cwdmark
07-24-2005, 10:05 AM
any pics of how you did the maf? that's nice.


edit: is the maf on cold side? i don't see it there... looks like you are recirculating the bov...

i was talking about shortening the piping AND relocating the maf... of course people have done one or the other.

chibo
03-13-2006, 10:00 PM
I hate to bump this thread, but does anyone still have these pictures? I'm interested in doing a similar setup.
Thanks. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smash.gif

killjoy
03-14-2006, 09:05 AM
I believe Mark doesn't run this setup anymore.

forcefedS13
03-14-2006, 09:20 AM
Does anyone here still have this setup?

Im definitely not going with a Vmount.
It seems the benefits were great as far as the MAFS is concerened. Im interested to see if anyone is still running this without issues.