View Full Version : is this the correct timing mark setting?

07-29-2005, 08:24 PM
Ok long story short, i thought my chain guides were messed up and took the valve cover to notice that a rocker was messed up. So i wanted to check to make sure my timing was as it should. I took this picture, just want to make sure this is right as this is the first time i've ever done anything like this on my engine. this is a redtop sr20de engine. i read the fsm and it says the shiny link on the chain needs to line up with the dot on the cam gear.

When this is done the crank is on the 2nd right dot on the crank pulley. Just let me know if this is right, i hope it is.


07-29-2005, 09:05 PM
That's correct. By looking down at the crank pulley from the front of the car, the second mark going clockwise is TDC.

07-29-2005, 10:19 PM
thats right, just remember when looking at the front of the motor count 4 Links, 20 Links, 9 Links...4 from the edge of the head to the first dot, 20 in the middle, and then 9 from the second dot on the other side. just make sure the crank is on point and your timing will always be on point. that probably sounded confusing...but yeah yours is right.

07-29-2005, 11:19 PM
Ok i was doing some reading around and it says that there are two silver links on the chain as well, although i dont think i found two silver ones more like non-black. So these need to line up with the cam sprocket marks and then it needs to be on the second mark from the left on the crank pulley???

I think that is right? I pulled my CAS out and i'm going to re-install it as per phase2motortrend. The timing light before we did this showed my timing to be off 4 degrees, not sure if thats horibbly bad.

So once i get the marks all lined up i just put the CAS back in and its done I think?

So i think this picture i have is wrong since the gold link shouldn't match up with the cam sprocket, maybe that was just fluke i dunno.

07-30-2005, 12:15 AM
Ok i was doing some reading around and it says that there are two silver links on the chain as well

i hope you were reading the factory service manual.
i hope you value the information on fsm higher than what you get to read on internet.
stick with the fsm, it will not steer you wrong, well, i'd say 99% of the time.

if you turn the crankshaft two more rotations (that's one combustion cycle) you will notice that the gold-ish link you have aligned on the exhaust cam sprocket will no longer line up.
keep turning the crank 'til you see the two shiny links line up with the the dots on intake and exhaust cam sprockets. then, the second marking on your crank pulley, counted from intake manifold side, this is also known as t.d.c. mark, should line up with the pointer.
this is considered to be the ultimate crank and camshsaft alingment for you to stab the c.a.s. to achieve proper c.a.s. placement.

when judging the t.d.c. point from just the crank pulley markings and the pointer, be ware that there is compression stroke and exhaust stroke.
with the oil filler cap removed, you should be able to see the #1 lobe of the intake cam. the pointed part of the lobe should be pointing towards the injector during the compression stroke.

07-30-2005, 09:06 AM
Yes I was reading the fsm, I bought an actual manual from australia. It says pretty much what you were saying, except the pointing towards the injectors. The timing was off by maybe a link or two. time to fix it.

Thanks for the information srfiveten, you da man!

07-30-2005, 10:22 AM
Ok I just got them all lined up perfectly. As i thought my CAS wasn't at the mating mark. I took the CAS out and was going to align it according to the phase2motortrend diagram they have and i noticed that my two marks on my CAS are reverse from the one they have? is this supposed to be how it is?

Does it mate up to the mark to the left all the time or is it the mark that is closer to the end of the CAS??

Also not sure if this is normal. we had the key in the on position when we were rotating the crank to get the marks lined up and there was a wierd electrical clicking sound coming from the fuse box it seemed. Seemed like wheneve the CAS was rotating it would make that sound? normal? Sorta scared the [censored] out of me.

NOTE: $120 spent on FSM = Best money I've ever spent!

07-30-2005, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the information srfiveten

you are welcome.

i noticed that my two marks on my CAS are reverse from the one they have? is this supposed to be how it is?

there were 1st and 2nd design c.a.s.
1st came with redtops, 2nd were standard on blacktops and vtc engines.
difference between the two is the positioning of them alignment dots.
the s14 fsm illustrates the 2nd design c.a.s.
it seems like you have the 1st design c.a.s. where the dots are reversed.
difficult to word this, but you would reverse the alignment procedure and you should be set.

Seemed like wheneve the CAS was rotating it would make that sound? normal? Sorta scared the [censored] out of me.

yes, normal. probably fuel pump relay was clicking.
i believe it is better to have the key at off when messing with c.a.s., unless specific tests are being conducted while turning the c.a.s. to simulate a combustion cycle.

NOTE: $120 spent on FSM = Best money I've ever spent!

you could have downloaded one for free,,, but if it makes you feel any better, i spent more in my collection of jdm fsm.

07-30-2005, 06:15 PM
Here's the drill. The redtop CAS i had ended up being fubard. It had some burn marks on it which is likely why i had ignition breakup in the upper rpm ranges, like maybe 5,500 rpm and up or just when i would make really good power. I personally thought my timing was off like 5 degree or more which would explain the horrible power. Shouldn't there have been a code displayed or does it only happen when the CAS gets so bad that it will not function?

I took a CAS from a blacktop motor and stuck it in according to phase2motortrend. Now i had the timing chain adjusted so that the two silver links were right on the cam sprockets when the crank pulley was on the second left knotch (yellow color). Once i started it back up and put the timing light on it i found it was off by 1 tick on the crank pulley. We adjusted it as far over as possible and it still would not hit the right timing mark.

Is there a special trick to making it work or do i have to keep adjusting the CAS until it does it just perfect? Also i can get the motor at TDC by aligning it with the second left notch and then looking for the cam lobe right, because if i need to take the CAS out this time that is how i'm doing it, well if its proper.

07-30-2005, 06:26 PM
i found one of your previous posts should i do this:

engine coolant should be at operating temp.
turn your idle adjustment/diagnosis screw on your ecu all the way to your left.

Now before all of this i need to stick the CAS in when it is on the second left notch right? I need to set the timing afterwards to the second right notch? Does that sound right now? i think i'm getting this.
while the motor is off, disconnect the t.p.s. harness from its sensor.
fire up the motor, let it settle down.
idle should be set around 750rpm while tps is disconnected.
second notch from right is 15 degrees btdc.
second notch from left is 0 degree.
left is intake side, right is exhaust side.
set your timing to 15 degrees +/-2.
hook up the t.p.s., idle should rise 50 to 100 rpm.

07-30-2005, 06:45 PM
once the tps is disconnected, the engine should be revved up to 3000rpm several times to initiate timing session within the ecu, then set idle to 750-ish, then set base timing to 15*-ish.

why insist on internet when you spent $120 on a manual issued by the manufacturer?

07-30-2005, 08:00 PM
Some parts of the FSM i find a tad confusing, i do think this is good practice mind you since i plan on upgrading parts like the headgasket after i get my car painted. Good learning is what this is.

Ok i didn't do the timing session by disconnecting the tps but i did lower the idle to as low as it would go. I'll try doing the timing session and see if it makes a big difference.

I got it to 15 degrees BTDC but the engine drove like absolute garbage. Maybe it is still off since i wasn't inthe timing mode.

I also dont mind asking for help from knowledage people such as yourself since you can sometimes make even the dumbest of things seem more clearer to a person doing this for the first time. Oh also i replaced my chain guides as well, one was cracked right down the middle.

EDIT: how do i check my timing without having the tps sensor plugged in? the timing light won't come on when i unplug it?

07-30-2005, 08:17 PM
how do i check my timing without having the tps sensor plugged in? the timing light won't come on when i unplug it?

get a timing light that would work while your tps is disconnected http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

reason for this need to disconnect your tps is so that the ecu will not interfere with your idle adjustment.

07-30-2005, 09:33 PM
Ok i have it set to 15 BTDC right now, will pretty much right on that line give or take like a tenth of a mm.

The car drives but has major hesitation more so under boost then anything. From what i read in the FSM this means some kind of boost leak or mafs problem. The ecu is now only throwing code 55 so i dont know what else to think unless i funked the timing up.

I inserted the CAS at TDC so i'm pretty sure at most it would be off very little and then we adjusted with the timing light so it should be perfect for timing. What else would cause major hesitation like this?

The hesitation only seems to come on at around 2,500rpm + or just when the car starts to make boost, its getting frustrating now.

I thought this would be something simple to do today to just check the timing and make sure it was perfect. The timing light initial showed the timing to be one full tick to the left!