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Gonad
09-12-2005, 01:24 PM
I'm no electrical expert, but I can follow simple instructions (but I still end up asking a dozen people because I'm just that much paranoid).

People say the wiring guide is simple; others say get someone else to do it. I wanted to do it myself

So I start looking online for simple guides with pictures and whatnot (just to make life easier).

I found two: HEAVYTHROTTLE.com's guide and NISSANPERFORMANCEMAG.com's guide

I tackled the harness near the ECU plug first (the infamous 'brown plug behind the glovebox').

Both sites mention the following wires matching on the two plugs.

On the websites...

HEAVY THROTTLE wrote: It is not necessary to connect any other wires to get the SR to run properly.
NISSAN PERFORMANCE MAG wrote: The rest of the miscellaneous green and one red wire are not necessary, we taped up each exposed end and then covered all of them in electrical tape.

Yellow / Red stripe = Tachometer signal
Yellow / Green stripe = Speedometer signal
Orange = Ignition start
Black = Ground
Blue / Green stripe = AC signal
Blue / Black stripe = Water temp signal


Now when I had my KA24DE, I bought the CONSULT tool (From PLMS). When a friend with an SR came over to look over some things, I tried to connect CONSULT to his SR and got no reading. The CONSULT is clearly capable of working with the SR engine.

Turns out those 'miscellaneous green' wires are whats used by CONSULT. If you trace the wires from both the SR and KA ECU pinouts, they match up perfectly and lead to the CONSULT port (under the steering column).

So it's understandable that the above wires are all that's needed to run but why won't these 'online guides' just mentiion to hook up the CONSULT wires? There's no loss and you may as well do it once and do it right.

And as a word of advice to people who want to wire the SR harness in the future: follow the ECU pinout wiring diagram instead of just following these online guides.

Is my rant here a 'repost' ?

Kingtal0n
09-12-2005, 04:53 PM
I'm no electrical expert, but I can follow simple instructions (but I still end up asking a dozen people because I'm just that much paranoid).

People say the wiring guide is simple; others say get someone else to do it. I wanted to do it myself

So I start looking online for simple guides with pictures and whatnot (just to make life easier).

I found two: HEAVYTHROTTLE.com's guide and NISSANPERFORMANCEMAG.com's guide

I tackled the harness near the ECU plug first (the infamous 'brown plug behind the glovebox').

Both sites mention the following wires matching on the two plugs.

On the websites...

HEAVY THROTTLE wrote: It is not necessary to connect any other wires to get the SR to run properly.
NISSAN PERFORMANCE MAG wrote: The rest of the miscellaneous green and one red wire are not necessary, we taped up each exposed end and then covered all of them in electrical tape.

Yellow / Red stripe = Tachometer signal
Yellow / Green stripe = Speedometer signal
Orange = Ignition start
Black = Ground
Blue / Green stripe = AC signal
Blue / Black stripe = Water temp signal


Now when I had my KA24DE, I bought the CONSULT tool (From PLMS). When a friend with an SR came over to look over some things, I tried to connect CONSULT to his SR and got no reading. The CONSULT is clearly capable of working with the SR engine.

Turns out those 'miscellaneous green' wires are whats used by CONSULT. If you trace the wires from both the SR and KA ECU pinouts, they match up perfectly and lead to the CONSULT port (under the steering column).

So it's understandable that the above wires are all that's needed to run but why won't these 'online guides' just mentiion to hook up the CONSULT wires? There's no loss and you may as well do it once and do it right.

And as a word of advice to people who want to wire the SR harness in the future: follow the ECU pinout wiring diagram instead of just following these online guides.

Is my rant here a 'repost' ?



I dont know if your rant is a repost, but I DO KNOW that redtop #62 ecu's have a built in error code flashing LED, making the consult light in the dash obsolete.

The J4 ecu is the only S13 SR20 ecu I know of that doesnt have the internal LED, in which case you need to adapt it either into the dash or to your own device. How to do this, I dont know, and its a damn good question just no one really seems to care about figuring it out. You SHOULD be able to just follow the pinout diagram and possibly just color match your way to the top.

_Def_
09-12-2005, 05:06 PM
The Consult interface has way more functionality than a crude check engine light.


The Heavythrottle guide even says the unused wires are for diagnostic purposes or something to that effect. You don't *HAVE* to hook them up, and you can tap into them right off the ECU if you want to have a Consult interface.

I don't see what the issue is, Heavythrottle provides a guide to get your SR running(and their info is 100% correct). Just because they choose to not list hooking up the Consult wires because they're optional, and tell you as such, you shouldn't label them as "misleading."

Maybe not 100% complete depending on your point of view, but it is free information. No one said you had to use someone elses work if it's not up to your standards...

Gonad
09-12-2005, 05:26 PM
HT makes no referene to those extra wires being used for CONSULT or diagnostic. I searched the page. Do prove me wrong.

What I'm saying is, why not just tap into the wires while you are doing it?

And yea, the wires do more then just blip the diagnostic light.

One other question. The brown plug near the battery, on my SR harness, has two green/yellow wires.

Now I know one of these is supposed to go to the green/yellow on the grey plug but I have two and I don't know which is wich.

I looked at the SR wiring/harness pinout and one of the wires in the FSM is labled as black/yellow but mine is green/yellow.

Here's the ordering if you are looking from behind the plug where the wires go in:

[A][B][C][D]
[E][F][G][H]

A = Red/Black
B = Green/Yellow
C = Black/Pink
D = Green/Orange

E = n/a
F = Brown
G = Green/Yellow
H = n/a

I was told to use the Green/Yellow thats in the [H] location...

RDM_II
09-12-2005, 05:30 PM
^Agreed. 99% of the information that is available now is made up from people who made the effort to research it long ago and are willing to share it. No one ever appreciates it anyway, I don't see why the community continues to divulge valuable information to a bunch of whiny ass spoiled kids in the first place, but those who do are doing it out of sheer kindness, yet someone always has to cry about it. Lame.
True, most guides don't include wiring for optional stuff, how many 16yr old kids with SRs care if their CONSULT port works? None. Most of them don't even know what that is, so to provide that info is just opening up another headache of having to explain it and hold people's hands. We get enough traffic on forums from completely ignorant people already, the more that's given is just going to confuse them even more. The intelligent people can easily figure the extra stuff out like that, so I don't see how it's any issue for those owners.

_Def_
09-12-2005, 05:38 PM
HT makes no referene to those extra wires being used for CONSULT or diagnostic. I searched the page. Do prove me wrong.




Taken directly from Heavythrottle's dash connector wiring section:



On the KA, the rest of the wires are listed in the KA FSM as going to the 'check connector'. It is not necessary to connect any other wires to get the SR to run properly.




It's pretty obvious they are talking about the Consult connector in generic terms.


You can hook the damn thing up if you want to, there's just no reason for the guys at HT to include it in their "basic swap guide" that is very short and to the point with all the info you need. I basically did my swap with $40 of Harbor Freight tools and a cheap Pepboys engine lift and the Heavythrottle instructions. If that isn't a testament to how awesome it is for those guys to provide such a free service then I don't know what is.

Everytime I order from them, I even mention that I appreciate that they provide that guide because it really is one of the more concise ones out there.


So by all means, hook up your Consult wires.

chunk
09-12-2005, 07:45 PM
Maybe you should ask if anyone has documented their wiring harness modification when doing their swap. I have a well documented JDM Zenki S14 SR into USDM Kouki S14 guide that I'm willing to share with anyone who asks.

Gonad
09-12-2005, 08:20 PM
'check connector'? That's the first time I heard that term being used.

The FSM lists it as a DIAGNOSTIC CONNECTOR FOR CONSULT.

Whatever the case; I am grateful for any info I find. But I always try and find more then one place with simiar info. I never take one guide/article for granted.

But just by telling people not to connect those wires beause its not necessary to get it running, most will do just that. That's what the people at NISSAN PERFORMANCE MAG probablly did after reading Heavy Throttle.

And it will be these same that come back a little later and ***** about the car not running right and what not.

If the online guide said "Connect the remaining green wires as well if you plan to use the onboard diagnostic CONSULT connector." I'd be ok.

Had I not checked the wiring guides myself I would have overlooked it for sure.

_Def_
09-12-2005, 08:42 PM
And it will be these same that come back a little later and ***** about the car not running right and what not.





...but that won't be the case at all since they are 100% *NOT REQUIRED* for the car to run. Mine aren't connected and my SR has been in for over a year.


I still don't see why you're *****ing about this and now arguing about semantics. This is a really minor issue to "rant" about on a free service.

If there was something in the guide that caused you to blow your engine, by all means come in here and complain. But *****ing about a free guide that gives 100% truthful information and even tells you of the optional steps you can take if you're so inclined(but isn't laid out like the rest of the guide), I just don't get it...



You know about the Consult connector, and you figured out what wires to connect to get the signals to travel across the car. Good for you. You should be proud you spent some time to successfully solve a problem with your car instead of *****ing that Heavythrottle should have spoonfed you the information in the first place...

RDM_II
09-12-2005, 08:46 PM
And it will be these same that come back a little later and ***** about the car not running right and what not.



Please share with us when the removal of the CONSULT port has affected a car's running right or not. I'm curious.

Again, you've failed to realize what's already been written. 99.999999% of people who swap an SR into their car DO NOT CARE about anything other than it firing and running. A/C, power steering, even gauges in most cases are of no concern. Period. Anything more than that is too much for them to handle and understand. With you being the .000001%, there should have been no question as to what else is required if you have followed any sort of FSM diagram, like you should do anyway. If someone gets mad that they found a problem later on, it's there mistake for not verifying information anyway, unless they know for a fact that's it's gauranteed. I never believe anything I read on here without backup if it's someone new or questionable. Everyone should, that way the mistakes are limited.

Where's the problem?

For the record, the first SR swap I did for a friend was done solely off of both FSMs. No online guides, no calling and asking people questions, no flooding forums looking for help. It's all right there anyway in both manuals, free for download and completely simple to follow. Which you found out anyway.

Gonad
09-12-2005, 09:29 PM
I am not talking about these people *****ing about their cars not running because their consult wire is not hooked up.

I'm saying that if they had consult hooked up (if they had the DOHC with CONSULT), then before they start asking questions, they could hook it up to consult (from friend, nissan etc.) and see for themselves why something isn't working.

Like I said, I appreciate the info. As for being spoon fed, sure why not. I don't have all the resources and I doubt a lot of people do either. There's nothing wrong with with it.

Im just saying it's useful information that could serve quite well.

Being served the bare minmum? Well I guess some people are happy with that. Not me.

Perhaps its about time HT updated their guide.

I'll be writing about my experience; not because of HT or NPM; but because I just like to.

SilverArrow27
09-12-2005, 11:41 PM
I am not talking about these people *****ing about their cars not running because their consult wire is not hooked up.

I'm saying that if they had consult hooked up (if they had the DOHC with CONSULT), then before they start asking questions, they could hook it up to consult (from friend, nissan etc.) and see for themselves why something isn't working.

Like I said, I appreciate the info. As for being spoon fed, sure why not. I don't have all the resources and I doubt a lot of people do either. There's nothing wrong with with it.

Im just saying it's useful information that could serve quite well.

Being served the bare minmum? Well I guess some people are happy with that. Not me.

Perhaps its about time HT updated their guide.

I'll be writing about my experience; not because of HT or NPM; but because I just like to.



Then maybe you should do everyone a favor of free service also and research. After making your consult port work, please make a website or share your free information with everyone on here that would care so they can also hook theirs up as well.

I don't know why anyone would rant about Heavy Throttle's wiring guide as I used it myself four years ago on my first swap and that car is still perfectly running today(I know because I sold it to my brother). Don't take a free service for granted!

kazuo
09-12-2005, 11:41 PM
Gonad: In other words, you're nitpicking.

"misleading?" Hardly. As others have pointed out, you do not need to make the CONSULT functionality work in order for the engine to run properly. It's a nice thing to have, but, as others also pointed out, the ECU's all have working LED's to pull error codes, so why waste the time to hook it up.

Further, how many people actually have CONSULT readers? Not many.

And how many notoriously cheap Nissan owners are going to spend money for one?

Again, not many.

I have yet to run into a problem that I could not fix by either referring to the ECU's error codes or my own analysis.

You're nitpicking. It's not misleading at all.

julio
09-13-2005, 08:54 AM
I think these guides are a good begining to wiring up your own setup, but I believe anyone who does it themselves should take a good long look at the FSM, and really understand whats going on in there. I had to do this to get my VG30DE running in my car, and I learned a lot. HeavyThrottle was a great start though. Although this quote got me confused, but I just figured it was a typo:

"There are 3 plugs on the end of the KA and SR harnesses that run up behind the stock battery location. Although the plugs do initially snap together, the wires do not line up and you have to cut 2 of the plugs off and connect the wires using the table below. Cut the 2 main KA plugs off the KA harness and splice them onto the SR harness."

When I went to go wire it up, I only had 2 plugs. I have an auto harness though, not sure if that would make a difference.

_Def_
09-13-2005, 09:49 AM
I think the SR main harness has 3 plugs, while the KA has 2. I can't remember exactly, but I know for sure the KA has 2.

Gonad
09-13-2005, 10:01 AM
Yes, the KA has two plugs while the SR has 3. I haven't looked into the wiring diagram to determine what that 3rd plug does but I take it it's not that important if HT doesn't mention it. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Why waste time on hooking up like 4 extra wires? It takes like 5min to hook them up.

And yes, I will write about my experience, install, etc.

Infact, I am also writing my own CONSULT software for Windows.
I have it partially completed and had to stop writing when my KA crapped out.
I will release that software free, along with the source code so others can mess around with it.

As mentioned, yea, these guides are a good beginning, but they do tend to leave out a few details here and there.

A buddy of mine came to get his car (with SR) looked at because it wasn't working all that great and I couldn't get a reading from his CONSULT port because he told me "maybe because I didn't hook up a few wires at the ECU plug".

Either it's his own fault for overlooking and not looking into what those wires are, or HT (or any other guide) that doesn't tell him hey may as well hook it up just in case as it's not likely to cause problems.

Well I'm done ranting. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NY S13 SR
09-13-2005, 02:30 PM
I would be happy to update the FAQ, it's been a while and back then I'm not sure if I knew what the consult was. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"Connect the remaining green wires as well if you plan to use the onboard diagnostic CONSULT connector."

OK I will add that, and I will fix the 2 KA plugs not 3 wording too.

Let me know if anything else in the wiring guide needs updating and I will make it happen.

ManoNegra
09-13-2005, 02:54 PM
S13 wiring is a breeze. Done a few swaps and HT's guide aswell as a couple of others floating around the net are more than enough for any half literate high school kid to get their hot JDM Whip running to terrorize Hondas... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

I'm waiting for the guide that clearly explains the four variations of S14 harness that even the FSMs don't agree on. That would be worth ranting about. My 2 cents.

Gonad
09-13-2005, 03:22 PM
HT: Right on. I guess if you rant enough, changes happen. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So yea, what is this about taking a green/yellow wire from the brown plug and using it on the Grey plug instead?

I looked at the brown plug on my SR harness and it has two green/yellow wires.

Can you explain that one?