PDA

View Full Version : S4 vs. C1



killjoy
11-12-2005, 09:43 PM
Who has used both of these? I know the Enjuku guys have used the c1's but who has used the s4's? The s4's have more duration than the c1's but the c1's have more lift. How will these compare to each other? How will the powerbands change?

SixSpeedSleuth
11-16-2005, 10:01 PM
Not sure, but I would like to know the answer also..I'm just about ready to order cams.

red_sir
11-16-2005, 10:17 PM
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/may03/ask_sarah/

From this site it says "Increasing the area under the lift curve with small or no increases in duration makes more power, more torque, and has a smoother idle. This is the advantage of the C1 over the S4, duration is actually decreased but the lift is a lot larger."

It's coming from a girl though, so it's probably not true. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif jk

Enthalpy
11-17-2005, 08:27 AM
the change in duration isnt significant enough to warrant a real change in powerband.

and the lift...

if you look at a flow vs. lift chart for the s13 head you will see that the added lift doesnt really matter. the head is maxxed out on flow pretty much by the lift number of the S4.

however the C1 has more agressive ramp angles that allows for a longer time at maximum lift...and thus more flow.

killjoy
11-19-2005, 04:15 PM
So Scott, is there any point in gettings the S4's then, or are the C1's the way to go in all routes?

TS4l
12-01-2005, 04:21 PM
Well I hope the S4's are good, we'll see soon. I decided it was finally time to push the Gt3076R and get some cams and intake manifold. Now I just need a retune from Scott and I'll head to the dyno and let everyone know how they work out.

Greaser_
12-02-2005, 07:30 PM
i'm not scott but i've used the S4's with a HKS GT3037s (nowadays a GT30r)

i really liked them and they made a [censored] load of power.

I've done several write ups on them here on FA. I bet if you did a search on an individual user and all their threads they STARTED you could find a wealth of info in the area you desire information.

killjoy
12-03-2005, 09:55 PM
Derek, you got any graphs with those cams? I would like to compare powerbands with both. C1 might be bigger than I want. Plus I don't want to change springs if I don't have to. You diud with s4's though right?

zugu
06-04-2007, 12:57 PM
Sorry to bring this up again, but I have searched and I saw both killjoy and TS4l both use the S4's, but I also saw that Scott used the C1's in his Response Tune car.

So I was wondering if there was any definate answer to this?

SoSideways
06-04-2007, 02:11 PM
Hmm... so Scott is saying that 11.8mm of lift would be the max for flow?

If that's the case, I'm wondering why are there so many different cams out there that have massive lifts?

Kingtal0n
06-04-2007, 03:47 PM
Hmm... so Scott is saying that 11.8mm of lift would be the max for flow?

If that's the case, I'm wondering why are there so many different cams out there that have massive lifts?

My guess is for longer duration at lower lifts. You only hit peak lift one time, so lets say 11.5 is best, if you lift to 12.5mm you actually pass 11.5 twice, instead of just lifting to 11.5 one time and coming back down. more "area under the curve" so to speak.

Or theres always the other reason, someone figured out that 12.5 is the maximum and just assumed that since thats the biggest lift you can squeeze it must be the best (since bigger is better theory)

Lift isnt everything by any means. youd have bigger gains installing undercut valves and smoothing the valve seat than just lifting it higher.

TS4l
06-04-2007, 05:13 PM
I haven't every used the C1's but I am very happy with the power curve of my S4's. I think for a fun all around car they are great. They hold Tq all the way to redline. I can say I don't think anyone would be dissapointed with the S4's unless they are running larger than say a GT35R, then I think I would look for something that is designed for the higher rpm power band. If you want good power from 4000-8000 though I think they work great.

SoSideways
06-04-2007, 09:58 PM
My guess is for longer duration at lower lifts. You only hit peak lift one time, so lets say 11.5 is best, if you lift to 12.5mm you actually pass 11.5 twice, instead of just lifting to 11.5 one time and coming back down. more "area under the curve" so to speak.

Or theres always the other reason, someone figured out that 12.5 is the maximum and just assumed that since thats the biggest lift you can squeeze it must be the best (since bigger is better theory)

Lift isnt everything by any means. youd have bigger gains installing undercut valves and smoothing the valve seat than just lifting it higher.

I see. That makes sense.

Well, the reason why I ask is because, companies like Toda and Tomei seem to have rather high lift on their cams, even for their "drop in" or "mild" cams, and those 2 companies have had some time and experience under their belts for tuning the SR, so I figured that they knew what they were doing when they designed those cams.

BC cams have quite a high lift too.

In any case, if I get a spare head or can afford to take the head of my engine, I'd definitely get the valves cut and get like a 3 angle valve job, and have the ports opened up a little and get them port matched to the intake manifold.

But anyway, I am going to give the Tomei Pon cams a try.

Ovrated
06-05-2007, 03:09 AM
i put the C1 cams in my motor.. it will be very similar to both ts4l and killjoy. same turbo, same turbo kit as killjoy, (hyrbidynamics) with an enthalpy ecu, but i did have the head ported. so as soon as she is ready to rock, ill hit the dyno and let you guys know whats goin down

SoSideways
06-05-2007, 11:12 AM
Ovrated, do you have any other cams to compare it with?

Man... need that cam shoot out test result!!!

Ovrated
06-06-2007, 02:23 AM
i had the hks 272 step 2 cams before. they were decent, but im hoping for more power with the c1's