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View Full Version : s13 SR20det TIMING HELP!!!!



SRprelude
02-12-2006, 03:09 AM
first off i blew my sr a few months ago. I just rebuilt my SR to OEM spec, except for using CP .020 pistons. The timing chain lines up with its marks at TDC, and the CAS (cam angle sensor) is right on.

BUT, when I was timing the car it runs like Poo at the 15 degree btdc notch (2nd white mark from the right to left). Thinking it might be off, I tried removing the CAS and advance/retard it one tooth......but that made it run even worse. I did use my FSM, and fiddled witht he idle adj. screw as well.

However, when i set it to the timing mark furthest to the right, 20 deg. btdc it feels good and powerful. Why is my car not wanting to time at the proper mark? could it be a Vacuum leak (couldnt find any), a bad timing light? ( mine is not adjustable, just a new generic autozone light) Ive been busting my ass trting to figure it out. Im lost, PLEASE HELP!!!!! Experienced individuals only!!

car info:
s13 redtop SR
CP .020 pistons
all other internals are stock
T25
FMIC
fuel pump
300z f. filter
K&N filter
3 inch exh.
etc.... etc....

_Def_
02-12-2006, 04:50 AM
Just pull the valve cover and stab the CAS. I've always had hell getting my car into "timing mode," even with the elaborate FSM procedure.

Make sure your cams are not a tooth off, as that could cause weird "issues" like this.

SRprelude
02-12-2006, 12:55 PM
well the timing chain couldnt be a tooth off could it? i crank it over w/ valve cover off and i get it to TDC with the links lined up...... ?????

btw, what do you mean when you say "STAB" the CAS???

Big_Bronze_Rim
02-12-2006, 01:01 PM
Its highly unlikely that your timing chain is a tooth off unless you recently messed with it.
Stabbing the CAS is just another way of saying installing it. I too would agree that the visual install of the CAS by lifting the valve cover as laid out in the FSM is probably the best way of installing it when you are in doubt of it being installed wrong.

nrgonline
02-12-2006, 03:59 PM
did you atleast unplug the TPS when checking timing with the gun?

SRprelude
02-12-2006, 04:01 PM
well the engine was rebuilt and me and my brother assembled the top end using FSM and our experience. Yea i took off the valve cover once already and re-installed the CAS. no luck. so i just pulled the CAS out and moved it forward and back a tooth to see if the timing situation improved, but no luck there either. so it appears the CAS is correct.
i dont see how the timing chain links could match the cam gears if it was off a tooth......... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SRprelude
02-12-2006, 04:07 PM
did you atleast unplug the TPS when checking timing with the gun?



yea i disconnected the tps as the FSM indicated, let the car idle at 2k rpm for a minute a rev it a few times. I managed to time it to the correct 15 deg btdc mark......but it runs like POO, until i move it to the 20 deg. btdc mark(furthest to the right). Isn't it risky to keep the engine 5 degrees advanced??

As of right now, its timed to 17-18 deg. btdc so it can run decent without any hard driving

BlazedGlory
02-12-2006, 07:12 PM
well the engine was rebuilt and me and my brother assembled the top end using FSM and our experience. Yea i took off the valve cover once already and re-installed the CAS. no luck. so i just pulled the CAS out and moved it forward and back a tooth to see if the timing situation improved, but no luck there either. so it appears the CAS is correct.
i dont see how the timing chain links could match the cam gears if it was off a tooth......... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif



I know this is for experienced ones, and that I am not... I do know however that whenever somebody at the shop I work at is doing a timing chain on the car they make sure to spin the crank manually to get the chain around a few full times... I dunno

nissandet240
02-13-2006, 03:38 AM
I been having the same problem for... i dont know how many years... Im running at pass 20* I took my car to a couple of SR shops but couldnt find the problem... this past september I install a metal head gasket. I strip the shortblock and made sure that all marks aling as metioned in the FSM but... but no change.
I learn to live with it and adjust the CAS using my buttometer...

TS4l
02-13-2006, 10:06 AM
What type of timing gun did you use? was it an adjustable gun, if so find an old ghetto one, for some reason they work better on our engines. Also after stabbing it you still need to use a timing gun, I have stabbed the CAS a lot and after checking with a timing gun it is always off. Also what are you doing to pull a signal for the timing gun? Are you using the back loop wire or did you use the old spark plug wire trick? I prefer the spark plug wire way myself.

SRprelude
02-13-2006, 04:25 PM
timing gun is NOT adjustable, i bought a new autozone generic gun. yea i keep checking the timing after each CAS adjustment. I use the black loop on the back of the coil pack harness

TS4l
02-13-2006, 05:05 PM
I've never had luck with the back loop. What I always do as recomended on here and even writen up somewhere is to take an old spark plug wire, cut it in half and strip one end of the peice that has the end that hooks to a spark plug. Then slide the exposed wires into a coilpack. Make sure and use some electrical tape and seal it. Then hook the end to the spark plug, clip the gun onto the spark plug wire and its just like a car with a distrubutor. Make sure you have a really good conection with the stripped wire and the coilpack otherwise it might not fire everytime. This method always works great for me. I'm sure if you search you can find the write up on here with pictures.

killjoy
02-13-2006, 10:42 PM
I do a similar way but just bend a coathanger. One end is rounded so it will sit on the plug and the other end you can just stick in the coilpack. Then put the timing gun on the hanger.

Sounds ghetto but works great.

Big_Bronze_Rim
02-14-2006, 01:00 AM
I do a similar way but just bend a coathanger. One end is rounded so it will sit on the plug and the other end you can just stick in the coilpack. Then put the timing gun on the hanger.
Sounds ghetto but works great.


Haha, I made a fancy-pants little wire as shown in the FSM when all along a high tech coat hanger would have done the job. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SRprelude
02-14-2006, 01:12 AM
ok i guess i could try this. Any other ideas....keep me posted .thanks!!

SRprelude
02-14-2006, 01:12 AM
ok i guess i could try this. Any other ideas....keep me posted .thanks!!

SRprelude
02-14-2006, 01:12 AM
ok i guess i could try this. Any other ideas....keep me posted .thanks!!

killjoy
02-14-2006, 09:15 AM
I do a similar way but just bend a coathanger. One end is rounded so it will sit on the plug and the other end you can just stick in the coilpack. Then put the timing gun on the hanger.
Sounds ghetto but works great.


Haha, I made a fancy-pants little wire as shown in the FSM when all along a high tech coat hanger would have done the job. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif




Thats where I got the idea http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pampadori
02-14-2006, 09:34 AM
the fsm says to make sure the idle is correct first. when you are checking the timing, is the idle around 700-750?

if you are still not having any luck, i would find someone close by with a scan tool or a techtom mdm100. or something like that to check what the ecu is saying the timing is, and then match that value with the timing gun.
for instance if the scan tool says 20*, set the timing by turning the cas until it the gun indicates 20* also.
note: you will need to have the diag wires hooked up on your dash plug from the engine harness. there is about 5 wires involved and mostly they are green with a stripe.

SRprelude
02-15-2006, 03:46 AM
never heard of someone using any diagnostic tool like that on SR's. wish i knew how to, or where to take it. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

hernameissilvia
09-24-2006, 04:20 PM
delete

BlazedGlory
09-25-2006, 12:53 AM
timing gun is NOT adjustable, i bought a new autozone generic gun. yea i keep checking the timing after each CAS adjustment. I use the black loop on the back of the coil pack harness

Get a real timing light. I got one of those late one night, because I read about how people on these forums saying cheaper timing lights seem to work better on these engines... I got it all timed to the proper mark, and it drove home like ass. I was thinking I had messed something up while reinstalling the timing cover and all that jazz. The next day I got it back to the shop. Somebody suggested I use their timing light because they never get to use it. I said "ok whatever, I already timed it." Sure enough, that thing was retarded like 10-15* IIRC.

Let me ask you something about your CAS. Where is it currently positioned? Is it maxed out toward the front of the car? If it isn't somewhere in the middle there is probably a problem.

Good luck... Let me know what you find...

BlazedGlory
09-25-2006, 12:56 AM
WTF... How do you accidentally bring something back from February? And how do I not notice this until after I waste all that time posting my story =P. Oh well, my advice is still sound... Fvck those crappy timing lights. I'm tired of the misinformation that they "work better."

Ovrated
09-25-2006, 01:04 AM
hm. there is a guy here in town with the same problems. i have timed my motor just fine, but his seems to bog out, and run like ****. ill restab his cas, and see what its liek with the ol spark plug trick