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2HD
10-24-2000, 12:42 PM
Two Car Finance Companies Sued for Racial Discrimination

Suit Alleges GMAC and NMAC, Through Dealers, Charged African-American
Customers Millions in Extra Interest
NASHVILLE, Tenn., Oct. 23 /PRNewswire/ --

African-American car buyers paid millions of dollars more than similarly situated white buyers for car loans over the 11 years, and are suing over that discrimination, it was revealed today. The discrimination affected hundreds of thousands of people who financed automobiles, two federal lawsuits charge, and lawyers in the class action cases are seeking money back and a change in the auto loan companies' practices.

"Our complaints allege that General Motors Acceptance Corporation and Nissan Motors Acceptance Corporation engineered and participated in a discriminatory kickback system that materially hurt African-American car- buyers," said Gary Klein, senior attorney with The National Consumer Law Center in Boston, one of several lawyers and law firms involved in the case. "We allege that they should have known that their mark-up system would have a disparately negative impact on the black community," Klein said.

The suits against GMAC, concerning Tennessee car buyers, and the NMAC suit, concerning buyers across the country, are both pending in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District in Tennessee, which sits in Nashville. Both cases were certified in August of this year as class actions. The federal Department of Justice appeared in court in support of the plaintiffs' position.

The cases were filed two years ago under seal, but were recently unsealed under pressure from national media. Lawyers Clinton W. Watkins and Michael E. Terry of Nashville, Wyman O. Gilmore of Grove Hill, Alabama, and the law firm of Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann in New York are the other legal representatives of the plaintiffs against the finance companies. Bernstein Litowitz represented the plaintiffs in the landmark Texaco race discrimination case.

Klein said the plaintiffs' statistical experts found that blacks typically pay about 50 percent more in dealer mark-up. Although the mark-up is arranged by the dealers, it is collected by GMAC or NMAC and kicked back as additional dealer compensation for arranging the loan. Since only part of the charge is kicked back, GMAC and NMAC profit from the hidden charges.

"The evidence is clear that these extra charges have nothing to do with credit differences between white and black customers, since compensation for risk is not an element of dealer mark-up," he said.

The complaint further alleges that:

* Car dealers were encouraged by GMAC and NMAC, unknown to most consumers, to inflate the costs of car loans for customers they thought would pay higher rates. The car finance companies and the dealerships then split the additional revenue.

* Under this incentive system, blacks were charged considerably more than whites, a result the finance companies could have foreseen and should have immediately ended as it became apparent.

* Federal civil rights law allows for penalties against companies whose policies lead to discriminatory lending or pricing, even if that
discrimination is inadvertent and if race is not directly referred to in the policy.

"Based on our statistical evidence, blacks were systematically and pervasively charged more than similarly situated whites," Klein added. In one typical grouping of GMAC borrowers in Tennessee, lawyers studied the amount in financing "mark-ups" charged to a group of about 4,900 car buyers of all races. Whites in the group paid an average of $643 in mark-up, compared with $959 for blacks. The difference of almost 49 percent cannot be explained by anything other than pervasive discrimination, and is a plain violation of federal law, the lawyers argue.

Should the suits prevail, the amount of penalties will be set by the court and distributed to all blackcar-buyers who used NMAC and GMAC loans during the last 11 years, Klein said. The total amountcould be $100 million or more. The base amounts charged by the loan companies were governed by objective criteria not related to race, Klein said, and are not the subject of the lawsuit; only the mark-ups added by the dealers in cooperation with the finance companies are at issue.

Court rulings in both cases have cleared the way for trial by rejecting NMAC and GMAC motions to have the cases dismissed. Presently, the NMAC case is scheduled for trial in September 2001, and the GMAC case in February 2002. GMAC or General Motors Acceptance Corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors Corporation since 1919, and operates under the brand name of GMAC Financial Services. In addition to worldwide automotive financing, its major businesses are insurance, mortgages and commercial finance (business-to- business lending). GMAC employs 27,000 people, according to the GM website. NMAC is a subsidiary of Nissan Motors Corp. The federal brief in support of the plaintiffs' motion is on line at http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/documents/nissan1.htm.

SOURCE Jaffe Associates -0- 10/23/2000



[This message has been edited by 2HD (edited 10-24-2000).]

2HD
10-24-2000, 12:50 PM
Another reason why Nissan has to have better dealerships and finance, this is one of the main reasons why sales are so poor compared to Honda and Toyota. This isn't the first time NMAC has been sued it hasn't even been a year yet let alone 6 months since the last time they were. Having great products is only half the answer to them being prosperous again.If they want to stick around they better get a tight grip of their dealerships and do it NOW

**DONOTDELETE**
10-24-2000, 06:42 PM
More stupid lawsuits from a bunch of idiots after free money!!
Race has nothing to do with it, it's intelligence plain and simple. My friend, who's white, we went to several dealerships and met sales managers and sales people tacking all sorts of ludicrous markups and costs. Understanding that they were money-making tools for the salespeople and dealership, we walked out and bought from somewhere else where they didnít tack on those items. People shouldn't be this stupid, it never hurts to shop around.
Idiots and ridiculous lawsuit!!

**DONOTDELETE**
10-25-2000, 09:40 AM
you definitely can't say it can't happen. i know here in the deep south, african-americans often have a much harder time getting home loans than whites on the same economic level. racial profiling is a problem here too

2HD
10-27-2000, 06:45 AM
Thats very untrue. You have to consider especially in a place like the south that this would be happening. Like I said before this is not the first time NMAC has been sued and it's only been a few months since the last time they were. Nissan needs to get control of their dealerships this proves that they have little or don't really care. Stuff like this could just mess it up for them. I don't want it to get as bad as Mitsu!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 400R:
More stupid lawsuits from a bunch of idiots after free money!!
Race has nothing to do with it, it's intelligence plain and simple. My friend, who's white, we went to several dealerships and met sales managers and sales people tacking all sorts of ludicrous markups and costs. Understanding that they were money-making tools for the salespeople and dealership, we walked out and bought from somewhere else where they didnít tack on those items. People shouldn't be this stupid, it never hurts to shop around.
Idiots and ridiculous lawsuit!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
11-03-2000, 07:08 PM
I dont know how true that comment about home loans is. My mother works for a mortgage company and if a african american gets denied on a loqn, they have to run the loan again.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-04-2000, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zbeast:
I dont know how true that comment about home loans is. My mother works for a mortgage company and if a african american gets denied on a loqn, they have to run the loan again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
according to my local news, this is happening in my area. remember that racism still runs deep here in the south

it also depends on where you live. i doubt racism is as big a problem in silicon valley, the land of rich whites and asians, as it is in louisiana and other areas where there is a large percentage of african americans. something i've also noticed is that the richer one is, the less likely they are to believe that something bad like racism exists. not necessarily saying that this is the case for you, but for many i think it is

Mo
11-04-2000, 05:40 PM
I hope they get what they deserve. I am from Ethiopia and now live in US, can you imagine you walk into a dealer to buy a car and the sales people ignore you because of my color of skin or even worst when they run to the next white customer that walks in after you. I have encountered a lot of incident people are mistreated because of there color and race. I remember once I walked into a restaurant with my dad and the waitress would not even serve us food because we where black, that was about 8 years ago. See most of you white people donít even realize we still have racism here in US. I guess as long as it does not happiend to you, there is no racism. This country is a long was to go to over come racism and black people to be seen in the same level.

PS. I think US is one of the worst country when it comes to racism.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2000, 04:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 400R:
More stupid lawsuits from a bunch of idiots after free money!!
Race has nothing to do with it, it's intelligence plain and simple. My friend, who's white, we went to several dealerships and met sales managers and sales people tacking all sorts of ludicrous markups and costs. Understanding that they were money-making tools for the salespeople and dealership, we walked out and bought from somewhere else where they didnít tack on those items. People shouldn't be this stupid, it never hurts to shop around.
Idiots and ridiculous lawsuit!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't think that idiots after free money is always the case especially since I am here in Daytona where I see stuff like racial profiling every day. Down here, if you walk into certain stores and you are black you can see the security guard following you.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2000, 11:43 PM
i think everyone who believes racism exists should be shot. you are the ones who publicize it for our kids to learn. educating kids on racism is exposing them to it. dont get me wrong there are some legitamet claims, but 99% of the time now it is all in our heads. its too easy of an excuse. "im stoopid, i didnt ask why they charged me that $300, o yea its cuz im black". how come im not superpissed that the college i wanted to go to wouldnt let me in because there were too many "white" people already. i live in rochester, NY. Integration is great in that area, but RIT wouldnt admit me, i guess its cuz im white. BULLSHI.. o yea cant swear too much here.. but cmon guys think about it, dont spend your time arguing and acknowleging racism exists, spend your time trying to promote equality. and somehow i dont believe that millions of dollars in awards from NMAC and GMAC to these africans is gonna help years of pain and suffering that they have supposedly endured due to the immoral practices of A FINANCE COMPANY. far be it from a finance company to take you for all youve got

steve

**DONOTDELETE**
11-22-2000, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sshawjr:
i think everyone who believes racism exists should be shot. you are the ones who publicize it for our kids to learn. educating kids on racism is exposing them to it. dont get me wrong there are some legitamet claims, but 99% of the time now it is all in our heads. its too easy of an excuse. "im stoopid, i didnt ask why they charged me that $300, o yea its cuz im black". how come im not superpissed that the college i wanted to go to wouldnt let me in because there were too many "white" people already. i live in rochester, NY. Integration is great in that area, but RIT wouldnt admit me, i guess its cuz im white. BULLSHI.. o yea cant swear too much here.. but cmon guys think about it, dont spend your time arguing and acknowleging racism exists, spend your time trying to promote equality. and somehow i dont believe that millions of dollars in awards from NMAC and GMAC to these africans is gonna help years of pain and suffering that they have supposedly endured due to the immoral practices of A FINANCE COMPANY. far be it from a finance company to take you for all youve got

steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>if people take on problems such as racism head on, there is a better chance that the problems can be solved. ignoring issues completely or downplaying them results in getting nothing done. and racism really does exist, especially in the south where it seems like every other white individual refers to african americans with the "n" word (when they're not outnumbered of course, 'cause they know they'll get beat down).

try to keep an open mind and remember that your little rich, white niche in this country isn't representative of the nation as a whole

[This message has been edited by nsuguy (edited 11-22-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
11-22-2000, 10:45 AM
Anyone who thinks racism doesn't exist is very naive.
Like Iggy Pop said if we mixed all the races then there wouldn't be any racism.Thats right everybody shag everybody.

The_Chosen_One
11-23-2000, 12:10 AM
Yep..racism is here to stay unfortunately.
But I will choose not to even go to deep
into this subject. However, I do feel a lot
of these dealers are racists, favoritists,
or straight A-Holes. Believe me, if I did
not have first hand experience of nissans
quality, and if they didn't make all my
dream cars (skyline, S15, R390, etc), I
think I would not even own one. my experience
at the nissan dealer was a horrendous one!
NISSAN...GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND FIRE THESE
PATHETIC "DEALERS"!! They will be the
downfall of any revival plans you have!

**DONOTDELETE**
11-23-2000, 01:06 PM
racism only exists when we promote it... and BTW, i dont live in a rich white community, im from the suburbs in the city of Rochester NY... i guess i would be the "outnumbered"

And i spent time in SC, and the N word is used as much by blacks as it is whites... Charleston, SC... i had a black girlfriend, pretty damned cute actually http://www.freshalloy.com/ and id say it was decently integrated there...

and we all have false hope that a lawsuit or laws will stop racism.. WRONG. it will not even help but make it worse... im sure the peoples that u speak of that are racists are pretty pissed about these lawsuits and theyre saying "f-ing N's, they should all die", or somethin like that... when in fact we should be filtering the problem out by NOT telling our kids until they are exposed to it on their own, and portray it as bad. Dont tell your 4 year old not to use the N word, cuz you know how kids are... if you shouldnt do it, they do. Racism can be exterminated by education at the RIGHT time, which is not always a young age

steve

**DONOTDELETE**
11-23-2000, 01:09 PM
"try to keep an open mind and remember that your little rich, white niche in this country isn't representative of the nation as a whole"

id like to point out that thats a prejudice thing to say... not that it matters, but racism DOES go towards whites too. The dark colored greeks had WHITE slaves, from portugal

steve

**DONOTDELETE**
11-23-2000, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sshawjr:
"try to keep an open mind and remember that your little rich, white niche in this country isn't representative of the nation as a whole"

id like to point out that thats a prejudice thing to say... not that it matters, but racism DOES go towards whites too. The dark colored greeks had WHITE slaves, from portugal

steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i never said racism was completely one-sided. and i don't believe my statement was "prejudice" anyhow. i'm half white and it's not like i hate the white-half of my family.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-23-2000, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sshawjr:
racism only exists when we promote it... and BTW, i dont live in a rich white community, im from the suburbs in the city of Rochester NY... i guess i would be the "outnumbered"

And i spent time in SC, and the N word is used as much by blacks as it is whites... Charleston, SC... i had a black girlfriend, pretty damned cute actually http://www.freshalloy.com/ and id say it was decently integrated there...
...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>so whites have every right to use the word b/c blacks use it? i don't think so. remember it means something different when a white individual uses it--it's a derogatory word signifying one's hate for the other culture.

anyhow, i don't think your black girlfriend or your experience in SC has any relevance to the possibility that racism possibly occurred within Nissan's ranks

**DONOTDELETE**
11-24-2000, 05:35 AM
k your right im movin off topic, im just sayin that millions of dollars in settlement can fix the overpaying, but that extra bit they always add for "emotional distress" is bull****. I hardly think that more money will make them ever buy a nissan agin, or gonna make them forget the years of oppression they feel they have endured. I am also just trying to say that words are only offensive if taken that way... a word should not be offensive to anyone unless THEY are the weak

steve

**DONOTDELETE**
11-24-2000, 11:04 AM
I am from india, and I have been in the US for a little over a year. I must say, that I personally havent witnessed any racism or discrimination . I live in a college town (Ann Arbor), so I dont know if that has anything to do with it...

Let me tell you some thing, even if racism exists in the US (which i believe it does, despite my personal experiences to the contrary) to the extent that you have described it, it is still nothing compared to what happens in most third-world countries around the world!! Even in India, my "homeland", there is major segregation and discrimination on the basis of RELIGION, CASTE, REGION, ETHNICITY etc. Its pretty sick, out there... you have to experience it to believe it. In any underdeveloped country, there are social and racial tensions based on sub-divisions among its own citizens. And they are much worse than what is supposedly happening in the US.
It does not matter whether discrimination takes place due to skin color, religion, national origin or whatever. The end result is the same.


It may take some time, but racism will eventually die out slowly in the US, as long as there is economic parity.We must stop making a big deal about it and stop being hypersensitive to political correctness. In any case, I dont see how any amount of money can undo the "emotional suffering" undegone as a result of discrimination!!!

Discrimination in some form or the other exists in each and every country in the world. As of now, the US is still the best place to be, for all nationalities. No doubt about that! (The very fact that people from all over the world migrate to the US in droves, to look for a better life, attests to that.)


[This message has been edited by Thal (edited 11-24-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Thal (edited 11-24-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Thal (edited 11-24-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
11-25-2000, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sshawjr:
k your right im movin off topic, im just sayin that millions of dollars in settlement can fix the overpaying, but that extra bit they always add for "emotional distress" is bull****. I hardly think that more money will make them ever buy a nissan agin, or gonna make them forget the years of oppression they feel they have endured. I am also just trying to say that words are only offensive if taken that way... a word should not be offensive to anyone unless THEY are the weak

steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i agree that millions shouldn't be given for emotional distress. fair compensation (few thousand bucks at the most) should be given to make up any unfair difference paid if something indeed did occur within Nissan

and Thal, i used to live in a 3rd world country too (the Philippines). yes, oppression occurs, especially to the minority aboriginal people. but the fact that oppression is occurring in the PI or in any other 3rd world country does not make it OK for oppression on a lesser scale to occur here in the US (possibly at Nissan). also, taking action gives better results than keeping hush hush about an issue

**DONOTDELETE**
11-25-2000, 08:51 PM
o yea and not to be offensive but whites do have every right to use the word.. not because blacks use it... but because its just a word, and its only offensive to those who take it that way.. if blacks would stop taking it offensively, others would stop saying it... its like kids picking on each other.. ignore him and he'll go away... i know youll say thats not true, but when its brought into the light, the ones that are winning are those that are saying the words, not the ones who feel theyve been picked on... it SHOULD be the other way, but its not

steve

2HD
11-26-2000, 06:00 AM
Words represent meanings.

Mo
11-26-2000, 08:44 AM
Some words do have different meaning when a black personís says it then a white person.

To me if Nissan did some racist thing then they do deserve to be suit, maybe that would teach them a lesson not to do it again. Also I would not be surprised if Nissan did do some racist remakes, I donít remember who (some one with a power in Japan) about 3 or 4 years ago made a comment that ďAmerica is falling behind because of black peopleĒ then later apologized. When someone makes a comment like that there is no way it could be fixed no matter how much he/she apologized.

I am getting off of the subject but I have to say this. Every time when you watch a cops show or even watch a news it is about what black people have done. On the other hand, the average people who steal are Ēmiddle age white femalesĒ but you never see that. Also most crimes that is committed by black people are miner comparing to what is done but white people (eg. blowing up a building, eating people, robbing a bank, going postal). There is more white people on welfare then blacks so why is it ever time some one mansions the word welfare ever body blames or think of blacks. Why is it every one blames black when it comes to drugs, black people donít have trucks, boats or even airplane to import it to the US.

Men this Sociology Class is opening my eye.
Later
Mohammed

**DONOTDELETE**
11-27-2000, 10:54 PM
[/B][/QUOTE] but the fact that oppression is occurring in the PI or in any other 3rd world country does not make it OK for oppression on a lesser scale to occur here in the US (possibly at Nissan). also, taking action gives better results than keeping hush hush about an issue[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with you completely that oppression cannot be condoned just because it occurs on a lower scale in the US, and keeping hush-hush is no way to fix the problem.

My point was, despite the fact that what is happening in the US is not good, given a choice, I'd choose the US over any other country ANY DAY.

The US has the best potential for cleansing itself of racism simply because, MONEY is the driving factor over here, and not blood feuds and centuries-old ethnic divisions like in most underdeveloped countries. Only a matter of time... 20 years later, its gonna be much much better.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-07-2000, 11:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2HD:
Words represent meanings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Words are what we understand under them. Someone thinks that "Dancing Jesus" website is funny, I am indifferent to it, but someone finds it offensive.

Speaking on the topic, I'd say that significant amount of blacks in this country are not ideal of the political correctness and tolerance themselves.

Don't you remember how after O.J. was acquitted because of his race someone wrote on some fence "You can now legally kill white *****es" http://www.freshalloy.com/ ?

Or antisemitism of Farrakhan and his gang?

Also, the quotes and affirmative action are another form of discrimination of both sides:
1) Whites are discriminated (do you know that all municipal and federal public tenders give advantage to minorities and women-owned companies?);
2) Such policy depraves minorities themselves, making them think that someone owes them.

The only way to make it fair is to make a color-blind policies the same way as the religion is separated from state.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-08-2000, 11:14 AM
i think most people agree that racism is a 2 way street

Nismo
12-08-2000, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>1) Whites are discriminated (do you know that all municipal and federal public tenders give advantage to minorities and women-owned companies?);
2) Such policy depraves minorities themselves, making them think that someone owes them.
The only way to make it fair is to make a color-blind policies the same way as the religion is separated from state.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most people who think the current system is unfair are in the majority and have never had to deal with racial discrimination personally. Whoever is reading this post right now, think... have you ever been turned down for a job because the person hiring didn't like your race? Have you ever had to pay more for something because of your race? I have. Have you ever been scoffed at, looked down upon, treated less than human all because of your race? I have. For anyone who thinks racial discrimination against minorites doesn't exist and the laws protecting minorites' rights are no longer needed, then I suggest you try this simple experiment:

Look in your local newspaper and fabricate two nearly identical resumes (use a friend's address on the second one) for some job offerings. For each job, send out the resumes. On the first resume state your name as Monique Brown or Tyrone Black. On the second, use the name Catherine Bradford or Ryan Cunningham. Send them out and watch what happens. If your experience is anything like mine or others that I've known, then over a period of time you'll find Ryan and Catherine getting a lot more interest from employers than identically-qualified Tyrone and Monique.

It's a sad truth, but America is not nearly as equal as the majority would like to believe. We're making progress, but now is not the time to do away with equal-rights legislation.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-08-2000, 04:53 PM
i think it was Dateline that recently did a story on racism among cab drivers in NY. they found that majority of the times, cabbies will pass up an african american to pick up a caucasian individual. that right there shows prejudice still exists

**DONOTDELETE**
12-08-2000, 11:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nismo:

1) Whites are discriminated (do you know that all municipal and federal public tenders give advantage to minorities and women-owned companies?);
2) Such policy depraves minorities themselves, making them think that someone owes them.
The only way to make it fair is to make a color-blind policies the same way as the religion is separated from state.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most people who think the current system is unfair are in the majority and have never had to deal with racial discrimination personally. Whoever is reading this post right now, think... have you ever been turned down for a job because the person hiring didn't like your race? Have you ever had to pay more for something because of your race? I have. Have you ever been scoffed at, looked down upon, treated less than human all because of your race? I have. For anyone who thinks racial discrimination against minorites doesn't exist and the laws protecting minorites' rights are no longer needed, then I suggest you try this simple experiment:

Look in your local newspaper and fabricate two nearly identical resumes (use a friend's address on the second one) for some job offerings. For each job, send out the resumes. On the first resume state your name as Monique Brown or Tyrone Black. On the second, use the name Catherine Bradford or Ryan Cunningham. Send them out and watch what happens. If your experience is anything like mine or others that I've known, then over a period of time you'll find Ryan and Catherine getting a lot more interest from employers than identically-qualified Tyrone and Monique.

It's a sad truth, but America is not nearly as equal as the majority would like to believe. We're making progress, but now is not the time to do away with equal-rights legislation.

I feel sorry for your experiences and pain, but two wrongs do not make it right. Protecting equal rights is essential, creating special rights is wrong.

Significant portion of things that you're describing have happened to me back in Russia. My parents were not able to find a job in Leningrad because of anti-semitism in the end of sixties (how do you like being told straight in a face "FOR YOU we don't have a position open"), so I grew up in sunny Siberia.
Speaking of more modern stuff, how do you like the situation when one of your friends who knows about you starts telling derogatory jokes with you present just to check your reaction? Or some other friends who don't know that you're Jewish tell such jokes without thinking that it can offend someone? Or such an "expression of trust" like "All Jews are bad/greedy suckers/.., but you're not like that, you're one of us". Or some bastard hangs a yellow Star of David on your back at school.

I don't think that America is perfect in this regard (I've met anti-semites but not racists here, in Oregon), but:
1) There is no officially sponsored discrimination of racial, religious or national minorities like in most of the other countries (just think about being Tibetan in China, Kurd in Turkey or Iraq or non-Muslim in any Muslim country);
2) Everyone has the same rights;
3) Propaganda of hatred can AND WILL get you in jail, unlike that in Russia where openly faschist parties and organizations openly poison the population with their ideas;
4) You have the majority of people who believe in equal rights and opportunities. I believe that securing special rights for some of the minorities (but not for others) is a blow to these people. This is why I have a great respect to Martin Luther King but have no respect to Jesse Jackson;
5) Equal rights and tolerance play enormous role in the school and pre-school education.

As for the names, I've heard similar story from my sister about a guy from Russia who was necessary to change the name and Americanize his surname because you can be a programmer named Igor, but need to be Gary in order to become a corporate lawyer http://www.freshalloy.com/ So, dung happens, but you won't able to eliminate such behavior with lawsuits or quotas. Only time and education can solve it.

[This message has been edited by Poligraf (edited 12-08-2000).]

The_Chosen_One
12-13-2000, 04:51 PM
I wish someone would freeze this discusion, it usually ends up way too persoanl.

SHIFT_6speeds
12-13-2000, 09:43 PM
back to the topic...

How can loans be discriminating? The Loan Application does not ask ethnic origin...that is illegal. So, if a loan paper goes into an office or offices where the approver(s) do not "see" the applicant, how do they know his or her color or ethnic background? This goes for any loan applcation....I am confused... How can this be proven to find NMAC guilty of such actions?

Besides, Interest rates are decided by many factors...so if an discrimination did occur it was against the less wealthy, and this is the most common discrimination in our U.S. Society!

[This message has been edited by SentraSE-Rman (edited 12-13-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
12-27-2000, 12:14 AM
Some news on topic: http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/news/messages/963.html