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Eagle1
04-20-2006, 07:26 PM
http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/Nav.aspx/Page=/About/Default.aspx

This is the time to start the next thread.

It is time to get out there and get some real track time and video, and impressions of daily driving the new set up on the streets. Work has been intrusive the past couple of weeks (imagine that!), but finally we get a chance to really get out there and run a big track, and I could not be more enthused. The testing and tuning should pretty much be done with. I have the car ready to go with only a couple of glitches. The EGT gauge..has the needle on the wrong side of the pin. That is odd. Couple of other little silly things, but otherwise, car feels good to go. Filled her up with 100 octane rocket juice this afternoon, and will load up the trailer and truck tonight. After work tomorrow, the trek from LA to Red Rock Canyon for the night, then bright and early to the track for a 7am check in. Taking the video camera and suction cup mount to get some good footage I hope.

As for my impressions of the car on the street. Pretty much the same handling as it was before the work...but not quite. The wider tires are definitely promoting more felt bump and the NT-01 is a noisy tire on the street. Definitely not recommended for daily driver use. When I get the street wheels back and on I will then give a more credible report on that aspect.

The engine noise level is dramatically more quiet than with the SC, and that is a positive (though there are times that the sound of an F-18 on approach for a carrier landing is pretty fun with the supercharger!). You do get that occasional bov whistle that is fun, but that is not the scream of the SC. The car does get more attention now, but that is due to the black decals on the side, and the black Enkei NT03+M wheels add to the ominous hulking visual statement to the car. Stripping those off, the car is basically the same looking as before, and the feel is basically the same from the suspension as before with one big difference....the front end is much tighter and "flatter" on turn in with the front stb and the stiffer Nismo bushings. The inertial roll is dampened significantly now, and whereas turn in was "crisp", it is now with the bigger rubber footprint and stb almost surgical. You have fun making a turn at speed and having the grip on the car just keep it planted...but if your passenger is not actually holding on to something when you go hard right, like I did this morning in Beverly Hills with one of my partners after a meeting...parts are going to be flying into your space as the driver...like shoulder, head and left arm of the passenger while the right arm flails uselessly at trying to grab for the door handle that is out of reach. (Lesson for both of us...."watch this" is not a sufficient warning for the uninitiated. Next time it will be.."grab the handle firmly, I am going to take a tight right turn").

The acceleration on the street, at .7 bar of boost on 91 Octane fuel......is thrilling. The Blitz controller seems to be working, as having goosed it several times the "peak" function on the boost gauge shows that so far it has not exceeded the pre programmed .7bar level. That is comforting of course. My gas mileage so far is gruesome, but playing with boost and heavy right foot are depriving me of the chance to do a self disciplined mileage report.

The ATS triple disc carbon clutch is a definite winner. It holds the power under boost, is smooth and civil on the street, and the flywheel of 10 pounds is still manageable. First gear is tender or delicate from a dead stop as you would expect, but not at all a pain or worry. I have driven the car in LA freeway traffic three straight days now, and it has not stalled a single time. Engagement is clean and rev matching is a dream.

Although the car is definitely a lot "meaner" than it was before VRT got their wrenches on it, it is still entirely acceptable to me for "civilian" use. The air conditioned comfort was called on today when we had warm temps in SoCal, as was the stereo music coming home.

The AP Racing brakes and pads are very manageable as well, though when cold the pads do give a little squeak. But it is not bad at all and goes away once they warm up after the first stop or two. Pedal feel is firm, and progressive.

In short, it is not a nasty handful at all when put into service on the road, and it calls to you to get in and take it to work....because you never know when that open stretch of lane gives that opportunity for a squirt on the throttle to get a "little" launch......and a big smile.
The civility part is there in the equation. Now we have to find out what it does when it is time for "attitude". And we are gong to do that on Saturday at Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch....Pahrump, Nevada. They have the approximately four mile run set up for us, and it should give some nice challenges for power, handling, braking...and yes driving.

helldorado
04-20-2006, 08:02 PM
Its great to hear that the car has maintained its civility and can still pull duty between daily driver and track menace. I've made the plunge on the VRT STB, which should nicely complement the GT-Spec F/R tie braces, rear lateral arm and Stillen rear STB I have on order. Not to mention waiting on the sub-frame chassis brace AAM is developing. Looking forward to some much needed chassis stiffening after it all arrives. Ed, you gotta stop posting, you're a really bad influence on me because now all I want to do is get the car track ready. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Have you had a chance to test out the APR brakes at the track yet? I'm anxious to see if they hold up to the abuse, or if they fall to the same fate as the StopTechs. Not to mention your general impressions and feel for them at the track.

0.7 bar, I'm assuming thats not absolute or you're running with boost off; so would that equate to about 10 psi of boost?



Lesson for both of us...."watch this" is not a sufficient warning for the uninitiated. Next time it will be.."grab the handle firmly, I am going to take a tight right turn"



Hehe, even if you give them fair warning, I don't think it'll be sufficient, but that'll probably never get old! Its probably just as fun to do the same thing to them by stomping on the gas at highway on-ramps. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Riffster
04-20-2006, 08:20 PM
Sounds fantastic Ed - easy now on the passengers! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Is the VDC at all engaged, or are the Nittos so grippy that no slip is detected?

The clutch sounds impressive - for a track-intended clutch to be at least slightly draconian on the street is usually expected - seems like the ATS is at least civil, if not entirely tame, when 'just toodling around.' http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Can't wait for the video!!!!

- Riff

Eagle1
04-20-2006, 08:55 PM
Helldorado:
The .7 bar is around 8lbs of boost, so close to wastegate spring setting, as low as one can go on this set up. It still slings you forward with purpose. An .8 setting is around 10psi, and of course the .9 is around 12psi. If you go to a full bar or 1.0... that is around 14.5psi, and that is hellacious power. I have gone to 1.1 and it was violent acceleration, really more than the track would require, maybe good for drag if you could hook it up.

The AP Racing took the infield course at Fontana all day with no problem. I should have listened to Mike on that one from the first day...but I was stubborn and thought I knew better. Well, I did not. (Not the first time that happened either.)

helldorado
04-20-2006, 09:01 PM
Gotcha! I was taking the straight conversion as 1 bar = 14.7 psi, which is how I got 10 psi, but that seemed a bit high for the the street situations you were talking about, since I know you had mentioned running 10 at the track.

Silly metric system. Grandpa Simpson said it best, "The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

WA2GOOD
04-20-2006, 10:01 PM
Yep, can't wait to see you and your car, (and our 5+ other ones) at Spring Mountain (Las Vegas)
Looking forward to seeing and feeling out that car on that new track. Hint...hint http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

G35RIDER
04-20-2006, 10:08 PM
So we're on chapter 7 and chapter 6 still hasn't been made into a sticky, riff, you startin to slip. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Riffster
04-20-2006, 10:44 PM
So we're on chapter 7 and chapter 6 still hasn't been made into a sticky, riff, you startin to slip. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Got me! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Well, that has been corrected now and also the associated 'links' thread has been updated to account for Eagle1 having replaced his Stop-Tech brake kit with an AP Racing kit.

- Riff

D_Nyholm
04-22-2006, 10:42 AM
AWESOME!!!!

My cousin used to play a little trick on his passengers in his 91 911 Turbo (with about 1.4 Bar (about 450-500 WHP). Tuck a bill ($20-$50-$100, whatever) in the sunvisor. Tell your passenger if they can grab it, they can have it. Brake torque the car to build boost and tell them to go...Immediately drop the hammer and watch as they almost smack themself in the face.

Of course, if they figure out what you are going to do, you lose your money since if you try VERY hard, you can move your hand at the money..

Eagle1
04-23-2006, 11:15 AM
http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif The day at Spring Mountain was excellent.

Perfect weather, about 78 degrees with light breeze and clear blue skies. About an hour west of Vegas, and just east of Death Valley, this is a place that you rarely will need rain tires for. With 3.5 miles track length, and 22 turns, and plenty of elevation change, off camber turns, compound and multiple turns, dips, humps and you name its, if Pahrump doesn't have it, it doesn't exit. (No, they don't have a "Hot Wheels" loop the loop like you had as a kid, but that is about it).

We ran the twisty configuration which if you look at the link to the track map, includes the interior turn 12R that puts you into the nothern section of loops (in red) as well. This is more suited to the Miata and S2k crowd than it is to the G and Z, and you really don't get to more than about 125mph on this configuration, but the cars did very well. We had about ten G35s out there, 6 of them with VRT bloodlines, and the suspension and handling packages performed well. There was a fair amount of traffic, notwithstanding the length of the circuit, because with all the twistys there are limited areas where you can safely pass, and the G35s were actually crawling up the Miatas and the Hondas in the twisty sections, and had to wait on them until we got to the straights or sweeper turns to pass. This meant getting a clear lap was almost impossible, getting held up a couple of times only was about as best as one could do. Even so we were turning laps in the 3:17-3:19 range which was good enough to be putting us in the top two or three per session. Mike B turned a 3:17 in his Z, I had a 3:18 in the G, and Mike A of VRT got a clean shot later in the day in his new experimental big turbo coupe which he yanked off the dyno the previous afternoon and blasted a 3:12. (And the answer is no, he did not have it on high boost, it was at the wastegate spring settings, around 10-11 pounds only...like we both have said a zillion times, these are track set ups, not drag cars, and they go best with rational amounts of power, not insane amounts.) I ran my car on .9 bar, about 12lbs of boost, and it was very manageable power. One time I did get on throttle a bit too early and hard coming out of the turn 2 sweeper in my enthusiasm to take a Honda S2k, and got sideways--overcorrected--got sideways the other way, but pulled it out, stayed on track and kept going, then passed the Honda later down the track. Driver error of course. What was clear from all the laps was that the car is now way more able than the driver (no surprise there), and I really need to work on my skills and also my familiarity with where the "edge" rests with this platform. Presently...it is way beyond the times I was running. Almost a shame to waste it when in the hands of a really good driver it would go so much faster than I can presently take it. Ah, but the solution is seat time...so out of an abiding sense of responsibility to our community I guess there is nothing that I can do except....go to the track and practice! As much as possible! What a shame and burden to bear. I have some good video, sent it to Mike A because he wanted some of it for his site, but he will zip it back to me and we can do a little vid for the site for you to see. It is pretty crazy with the twisting and turning, but you will see that the car is really ripping along and just claws up to the little cars even in the turns, and then rips by when the fast section comes along. For a heavy G35 to do that is just awesome.

The temps stayed around 100C on water, with outside temps around 80 by afternoon and altitude at 2,400 feet, and very dry air. The car was working hard, and the tires....well you can hear them in the tape just squealing and howling in the turns, but they gripped well and certainly had more in them than I asked of them. The track was not particularly hard on brakes, maybe only three parts in which you really had to go to them hard, so no issues there.

You do not want to go off on this track, not because of walls, because the only walls are along the pit area and not really much of a factor, but lots of gravel and uneven dirt and big scratchy desert shrubbery. Fortunately the track is pretty wide on the fast areas.

There are also occasional desert tortoises, a protected species, and it is a $20,000 fine if you smack one. So if there is a pretty good sized boulder you used as a braking point marker about five feet to the left of the track, and on the next lap it is three feet to the left of the track.....pull in and alert the flag marshall and they send out a guy to scoop up Mr. Boulder and relocate him to a safe place. (Interesting part of the driver's meeting!) Maybe they get Gators crossing the track at Sebring? One time at Laguna Seca we had a track stoppage on a report of a Lobster on the track...turned out it was a granddaddy crawfish about 8 inches long that crawled up from the irrigation pond....so who says odd things do not happen in motor sports? Of course there was the frantic radio call from a driver on his headset unit up in Oregon of the Sasqwatch...but they only found the upended car and no driver at turn five so without confirmation it was just treated as usual, the car was scavenged for parts and the driver listed as an early departure.

At this juncture I have to say the grand experiment is a success. The car just kicked butt. There were other cars out there pulling lap times in the same group that were twenty seconds or more per lap slower in the advanced intermediate group that we were running with, and they were good cars. Cobra Fords, Boxsters, race prepped Honda and Miata cars were all slower. You will see in the video that we just pull right up on the trunk lid of these cars and stay glued to them through the turns, and it is just easy cruising, not pushing the car at all, until we get to the straight and glide past. I drove the car to work three times last week, then took it to the track on Saturday and had a blast. Today we take the rubber bits off the front that we collected, and give her a rest, and next week. Well next week we drive to work a couple of times...but on low boost. That 100 octane rocket fuel at $6 a gallon is not for the City commute!

Cheers.

helldorado
04-23-2006, 07:38 PM
Sounds like a blast!

I was thinking about what you had mentioned in another thread.



You may not want to go crazy with a higher quality filtration to remove micro particulates (they attract and hold heat and thus their removal contributes very much to running lower temps).



Is your bypass filtration setup making your temps run higher or lower? Not sure if you mean removing the micro particles lets your oil run cooler, of if having the bypass filter contributes to higher temps?





There are also occasional desert tortoises, a protected species, and it is a $20,000 fine if you smack one.



Eh, probably still cheaper than what you've spent on the car, and definitely cheaper than what you'll spend on race fuel. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Eagle1
04-23-2006, 10:43 PM
Whew, Helldorado, I would not want to get into a debate on any details with you brother....losing is not the issue...but the embarassment of the margin I would lose by certainly would be!

On the cost of tortoise punishment or mods.......no argument there. I have financially endured the equivalent of mowing down a few of the little (actually not so little) guys. But being an animal fan I would not sleep for months if I hurt one...losing the car would not bother me for an instant.

On the oil temps, it runs COOLER with the BMK-13 bypass filter. Particulates attract the heat. And they retain heat longer than the oil. Envision them as little glowing pieces suspended in the oil and radiating heat to the surrounding lubricant. By removing them the effect is very tangible to the ambient temperature of the lubricant which is doing double duty as a heat exchanger, conducting the heat to your oil cooler and then back to the block. By working to cool your water-coolant AND your lubricant you are doing double duty, just as your oil does, to knock down the operating temperature of your motor. So by increasing the cooling capacity for your oil, and the cooling capacity for your water/coolant, and the metal to air cooling exchange of your block (VIS carbon fiber hood), you are addressing that issue.

When using a turbo to boost your power, you are obviously boosting your temps, and you have to do more to protect your motor when it is doing more. More power = more heat. Since we want more power, and therfore affirmatively infuse more heat into the equation, we need to then think about how to abate or manage the heat. We cannot make it go away in the first instance.....so we need to find more efficient ways to dissipate it and maintain the optimal balance (running an engine at 0 degrees is not advantageous and if you have a problem with that we can go to some other forum and address it).

Ultimately we have to exchange the heat to the air, without thermally compromising other elements of the car. If we did a heat signature we would see a cool blue in front of the car and a trail of yellow-orange and red heat trailing like the tail of a comet behind the car.

So we have a very "busy" front end of the car, with lots of demands fighting for exposure to air flow and heat exchange. Intercooler, radiator, brake ducts, oil cooler, power steering cooler, cold air intake......and we also have very imaginative ways to express the hot air away.

If we do not address heat, we are going to pay the price later in another way, either through increased wear, failure, or reductions in power when heat soak attacks you. Operating temps of 30 to 50 degrees cooler can also mean higher horsepower (depending on where in the temp range and the motor, of course).

I know this. On this track day there were 350Z cars ( I will not say whose) that were bubbling coolant and boiling power steering fluid and running power robbing temps.....and we were not. What stressed to failure other motors was a walk in the park for this one. And running multiple 25 minute sessions of balls-out pedal to the metal tracking without so much as a flicker of strain....that indicates to me that the car is built to take virtually anything that I am going to throw at it, because I just did. The build is not for everybody, and we should not even pretend that it is. But IF, and it is a big IF, you want to take a VQ35 powered platform and set it up for daily driver civility, and track capable performance, this is one approach that is close to the mark. It was neither cheap, nor easy. But now that this approach is figured out, it will be a lot easier and lower cost for the next group of enthusiasts who think this is something that interests them.

When I get the video up for you, it will be like "ducks in a barrel". So much fun. The car is way faster than this driver. WAY faster. I would venture to say that in all but the rarest of circumstances, faster than any but the very best drivers. As would be the case with a GT 40 or Porsche Carrera GT or one of the Ferrari or Lamborghini marques. But at a fraction of the cost of one of those cars. It is one thing to spend a quarter to a half million on a car and know that it is more car than you can ever manage around a track. At least here the delta is only a few tens of thousands for the same performance.

helldorado
04-23-2006, 11:37 PM
Excellent points! I wasn't sure which way you had gone before. I had assumed that you meant you were running cooler because the particulates were being pulled out, however I was wondering if the bypass filter setup was slowing down the rate of flow which in that case, would cause temps to heat up! Its very reassuring to see that is not the case.

Hopefully by this point, you've been able to shed any doubt for people that running effectively, is by in large based on, thermal efficiency. I know as I go forward, some of the key points I'm focusing in on are driver improvement, tractable hp levels, driver improvement, thermal efficiency, driver improvement, a tight balanced, chassis and driver improvement. I've only gotten about halfway through Maximum Boost because I keep going back and rereading all the prior chapters trying to suck it all in. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I've really enjoyed your series on the buildup. I only hope that as many people have taken away as much from this as I have! I know that if you didn't document and share as much as you have, there would've been points in my mod plan that I would've encountered similar issues down the line that now I know to be aware of. Having a good plan and sticking to it can be as frustrating in the short term as it is rewarding in the end. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ack2.gif

Besides, you can't be a good student if you don't have a keen eye for detail. Sometimes its not in what you say, but in what you don't say or isn't readily apparent! Not that I'm the argumentative type or anything. *cough* http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Eagle1
04-24-2006, 09:14 AM
Not that I'm the argumentative type or anything. *cough*

Perish the thought!

We will all admit readily that one can have an incredibly great experience with their cars completely untouched. The basic car is a wonderful car...that is why we bought it in the first place after doing our own individual thinking on why it was best for us compared to a number of other very competitive offerings.

And we should also readily acknowledge that with relatively fewer modifications, and less expensive ones, some rather remarkable upgrades in handling and power are readily available.

Thirdly, if one wants to get more aggressive, there are now in the market place a rather large, and still expanding, array of choices for real high performance. Some of the FI kits and options now are well tested and proven...though we still are on a leading edge of sorts with the motor. Three years is still early on in the life of a car when talking about aftermarket approaches being truly "proven" and some solutions being better than others. But one does not HAVE to put on all the handling bells and whistles. A car that is not tracked or driven hard can still provide gobs of smiles and fun with an FI kit, or run NA with an array of handling mods that make it turn like a rabbit.

There is a lot of stuff to learn, and as Helldorado nails it once again, it is mostly about driver education and experience. But parts are important, and in particular which parts in what combinations and at what times in the build progression? Doing them and then having to redo them again when you move to the next step is a real fear and financial waste, and we don't want to be stupid or foolish with our money and our decisions.

I have been talking to the lads at VRT about the concept of a multi-phase build program or menu that involves both cost effectiveness, performance returns, sequentially sound steps to minimize waste, etc. Essentially a series of steps to upgrade power and handling, balanced with each other to take much of the worry and most of the confusion out of the process. Of course it will reflect the opinion of one group of car folks as to what the approach is and why, and this takes some real noodling, but I think it could be very attractive to a lot of people. (Level 1 introductory program, Level 2, Level 3 etc., with some choices between cars that are left NA, cars that have been left NA but with a built motor, cars that have stock internals but FI, and of course the built motor FI monsters). Certainly it would be a starting place for discussion from which each one could further shape or customize their build to their very particular needs.

Pulling together the array of knowledge in a fashion where our community can go to a couple of places and find recommendations that really WORK and are subscribed to by a large number of knowledgeable enthusiasts would be a real positive. In any event, I am going to noodle that out and see if we can come up with something that makes sense, maybe even float it out there for you comrades to chip in and help shape or polish, and then maybe we can put it up someplace accessible at FA.

Ah, rats. Time to go to work. Back to the real world, gentlemen...back to the real world.

Cheers.
Ed

350ZNV
04-24-2006, 02:40 PM
As always Ed, your threads over here inspire me to say the least. Now I am going to look into your oil cooling system for my car. I am running on the edge of normal and high with my setup now. It was great to see you as always and I am glad you liked my local track! Will you be attending the Speed Ventures event in June at Las Vegas Motor Speedway?

helldorado
04-24-2006, 04:35 PM
That's really what its all about. Being able to progress through an evolution of the car without taking too many steps backwards or outpacing yourself in the process. Many people have taken mighty blows to their wallet by getting overexcited and not following a pragmatic and balanced plan. How many of our Z/G bretheren have cranked 400 hp through an open differential only to find themselves violently losing traction in slick conditions past the point of where VDC can save them, or negated the concept of additional oil capacity and ran quarts short until they destroyed their engine, or assumed that by installing the kit in their garage, a tune wasn't necessary?

As you said, we have a vehicle with the build up potential to compete with the ultra exotics for a fraction of the price, but its a rough road not to be taken lightly! Also, how do we go about this path so if at any point we need to hop off, we're not left with an incomplete, imbalanced vehicle. We need to lay out stages that are complete in themselves.

I think most people get overly excited when they discover the potential of the car and develop the impudent, spoiled child syndrome of "Now! Now! Now!" and rush to make as much power as possible thinking the car can handle an engine that is making an additional 150-200 hp over stock. Forgetting that the suspension, drivetrain and chassis are designed for a street going vehicle making as much power as well, stock! I know I was there,within my first month of owning the car I bought a Stillen CAI, z-tube and plenum spacer just to kickstart that lets make it as fast as possible as soon as possible mentality. Aside from adding an underdrive pulley, common sense has reeled me in and that's been the extent of hp increasing mods I've done thus far!

While trying to determine what I want out of the car and what it will take to get me there, not to mention what is budgetable and hashing out an accommodating time frame, I decided to capitalize on an opportunity to work with Mike from clearcorners.com. Ironically, what came about from an eBay search for clear corners, has turned into a complete ulterior motive to flat out performance! Now that I'm coming close to finalizing this stage of the plan, its time to start following up on the pursuit of performance again. At the very least, it wasn't a flash in the pan pursuit of a body kit or something completely unapt to the overall goal that would impede airflow or reduce drag coefficient. Still had to maintain a sense of functionality, even if a heavy focus on the aesthetic was at play. Dammit! I'll never shake those 4 years of art school. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Soo... we're back to the beginning. 5AT with the sport tuned suspension; which way to proceed! Well, for the sake of argument that we bought the upgraded suspension package and its worthwhile to get accustomed to the car in that form, I needed to address the tire situation sooner than later because you don't go year round with summer tires in NJ! Considering future goals, keeping the stock wheels for summer use just didn't seem prudent, so you opt for the up-sized wheels and convert stock to winter. Odd to most onlookers considering I had 19" wheels, but Bridgestone was happy to supply a set of appropriately sized LM-25 Blizzaks.

Knowing that with the decision to ulitimately go FI, and what kind of consequences that decision might have, it became clear rushing to get an exhaust (most people's first mod) can end up becoming an expensive do-over! Single turbo or twin turbo, already you hit the point where you either can't necessarily go with a full cat-back if you opt for the single turbo. But what if we go twin? Don't want to risk getting a y-pipe back exhaust just in case. So until a kit is committed to, exhaust is best saved until the big horsepower adders come in.

Quite many people have done quite well with stock power levels on a well tuned chassis. Think of how many times your heels have been nipped by those "slow" S2000's and MX5's in the turns. So lets leave the horsepower mods aside and focus on the drivetrain, suspension and braking which brings me to where I am now.

Though sway bars are usually an inexpensive and worthwhile early mod, lets keep the "sport-tuned" suspension as is so we can get a feel for the chassis and find its ends before pushing them that much farther out. But that doesn't mean the chassis shouldn't get immediate improvement. A front STB is on order form VRT, the Stillen rear STB is sitting in my garage surrounded by GT-Spec F/R lower tire braces and a rear lateral arm. Once that is all installed, the chassis should be thorougly tightened up. Parts in development have me looking at mid-frame reinforcement as the last piece to that puzzle.

Thanks to a windfall through Boones, I was able to source the open diff pumpkin from his 6MT sedan. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif Currently thats sitting at the shop of Altered Atmosphere awaiting confirmation on parts so we can go forward and do a full rebuild and conversion to 3.917 gearing with the Quaife LSD. A unit like the Quaife should make the car feel extremely stable in the rear through turns and increase driver confidence, which plays heavily in your attack. Factor that in with a BBK and the car is more than track capable as I fear these non-Brembo brakes won't hold up to much track punishment. So sometime over the course of the winter, most likely the AP racing kit will be installed as well as a rebuild of the rest of the transmission. The 3.9 gearing will stress the transmission a bit more, and since the ultimate goal is FI, there is no harm in rebuilding the transmission sooner than later. Stronger clutch packs, an improved valve body and better torque converter will make improvements even on a NA car.

At that point, I hope to have finished my first driver's school! Then I should be ready to push the capabilities of the car out further so I play catch up again. At this time, the a full suspension overhaul will be on deck and it'll probably be this time next year already. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sorry Ed, didn't mean to hijack your thread! Though this is probably something like reading the diary of a madman. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ack2.gif

ZazaRacing
04-24-2006, 05:34 PM
I too think that Ed is a BAD influence. Stop getting us so excited about modding. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ack2.gif

Although I missed out on a ride in the new beast I did get a few chances to play with it. Soon to find out I was no match for it. Ed came up on my tail on the sweepers and being a good friend I let him by and thought since we were side by side I would be able to hang. Boy was that a slap in the face. At full throttle boosting 7psi I looked like I was in reverse as Ed pulled down the twisty back straight.

The car was way off in the first few sessions suspension was just too lose. Ed and Scott helped me out with that and I went back out felt like a million bucks now if I could just find the driving line. Ive been tracking for almost 2 years now and know what Im suppose to do but this track was a reality check. One major fact was I was learning how to drive the car again with the SC.

The later sessions were great after all the bugs we worked out. I ended up running a 3:30 from my close to 4:00 laps.The car was running warm which I felt the HP loss from but nothing too bad. I did one session while logging data from my Emanage. So I will review and post back later.
I will be adding a Koyo Rad and oil and PS coolers as well FI in SoCal is just stupid not to.

Eagle1 warned me about the car being a whole new beast and he was right. The power reaction was 100% different. Not to mention the new Exedy cluth was amazing. Rev matching was like drinking water and when it hold it holds. The car is fine for street driving but with all the mods well more suited for the track. Gas mileage sucks! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Sorry if I went a little off topic just wanted to let you all know how Ed's old setup is running.

Eagle1
04-24-2006, 05:53 PM
As always Ed, your threads over here inspire me to say the least. Now I am going to look into your oil cooling system for my car. I am running on the edge of normal and high with my setup now. It was great to see you as always and I am glad you liked my local track! Will you be attending the Speed Ventures event in June at Las Vegas Motor Speedway?



I am definitely looking forward to running with you at LVMS and do plan on it! Great track at Spring Mountain. I really liked it a lot, although with that many turns you get pooped tossing the car left and right and left again....but a real great place to work on technique, and the elevation changes, dips and off cambers get your attention. Lots to challenge you, and I look forward to getting back out there again.

Eagle1
04-24-2006, 06:06 PM
To Helldorado and ZaZa, those are not hijacks to the thread at all....we sharing the infectious joy of performance driving and experience, and it is just GREAT stuff. It is precisely that type of reaction that helps all the readers share and balance their analysis for what they are considering doing. There is no one "right way", only a right way for each individual and his or her car and desires. And they don't necessarily know it, because they do not know what can be done and how. Hopefully together we are helping everyone get better and more confident at doing it.

And ZaZa, you were driving just fine. To lop thirty seconds off your lap time on that beast of a track layout, with 22 turns and some really nasty ones at that...is a heck of an improvement and especially where you are putting down 360+rwhp on a new set up. That you did all that without taking an off track excursion is a testament to both some skill in the reflexes, but some very sound judgement in your brains! Work up to the limits, as opposed to throwing your ass against the wall and seeing what happens. The early laps you just were too soft on the suspension. I know my recommendation for adjustment was not at all what you thought you wanted to do, but those lateral forces and inertial roll over challenges were huge on that course, and with the dampener tightening you probably bought yourself ten seconds. But the other twenty? That was all driver....and shaving those twenty is a BUNCH of guts. You had to have tire squeal like crazy to chop it down that far on your lap times.

But it was a good time, wasn't it?

ZazaRacing
04-24-2006, 06:55 PM
In deed Ed the tires were screaming but where is the fun in racing with no tire screams. I really thought the car would throw out more then it did. I guess it's a good thing. Then I kept forcing it to throw out and it really responded well to the lift drifting. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

In the past I have to edmit I havent had the balls so to speak to throw the car around and into a slide. I mean something just doesnt sit well in my stomach about a 3600lb pig being thrown in a sideways slide. I think since the speeds at this track were much slower it was easier to control the drift. I still dont know about going into a drift at 50 or 60+. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/driving.gif

I think next time out Im going to get another instructor or ride in someones car just to pick up some more tips. I might be joining you at Fontana. I just cant say no to the roval. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/seeya.gif

Eagle1
04-25-2006, 12:42 AM
It does get tail happy waggle with all the weight, and it can be disconcerting, but it also responds to countersteer input well if you do not hesitate and you do not lift throttle. If you lift it snaps pretty quickly. I got sideways at 60+mph coming out of the Turn 2 sweeper with some power on oversteer, and waggled around pretty good before getting it back straight again. Not good if you had a large breakfast that morning. I will get the video and you will see.

350ZNV
04-25-2006, 01:04 AM
Some pics of the beast in action!

Good form Ed, good form...
http://www.sincity350z.com/edsmmr1.jpg

Dicing it up with Scott from VRT and some lap traffic http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif
http://www.sincity350z.com/edsmmr2.JPG

Eagle1
05-20-2006, 08:20 PM
OK, today was a couple of sessions on the track at Fontana's California Speedway, running the full Grand Am Cup course with.........the "Roval". This is a terrific layout for a high hp car, probably the fastest stretch of any track in California, as you launch into the front straight banked at 11 degrees upshifing third to fourth, then fourth to fifth, and fifth to sixth...hard down on the throttle all the way down the front straight..and into the big banked NASCAR turns 1 and 2.....pucker time...and then shoot half way down the back straight before slowing from 130-145 +mph to about 45mph to take two ninety degree compound turns that begin the infield course. There are three straights in the infield, two of them pretty good ones to take you to over 100mph each, so it is a blast.

The car was great. This time I ran it on some hoosiers just to see how they would behave. They are incredibly grippy, but they don't talk a lot to you and when the give, they give. Takes a little getting used to when one is used to the "singing" of the Nitto and Toyo race tires.
This is the Porsche Club of California weekend tribute to LeMans, and they are doing a class act all around. Some incredibly hot cars and a good time. They are running again tomorrow, and if you can get out to see it, might very well be worth while. I am going back tomorrow to grab a few more run sessions. Good fun.

Riffster
05-21-2006, 07:12 PM
Envy .... jealousy .... drool .... okay, I'm past it now!

Taking your beast onto the Cali Speedway bank must be a bit like confronting the Sirens was for Ulysses. You're captivated and terrified all at the same time! (Except stuffing your ears with wax doesn't help in your case. Maybe stuffing your cats with wax would .... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif And never mind tying yourself to the mast - you're already in a harness.)

How did your super coupe compare with the mighty Porsch-ahs in power and handling? Or was it more a case of 'drivers rule, power fools?' To me Cali Speedway would take a little getting used to - it is almost disassociative in the difference between Roval and the infield (at least it seems that way on video!)

Btw, how are engine temps going? I assume all the time and money put into the exotic coatings and oil filtration and distribution systems comes back to you in spades here.

- Riff

idrive
05-22-2006, 10:22 AM
nice feature eagle1 in july's SCC, I'd say your car is right up their alley

350ZNV
05-22-2006, 05:24 PM
nice feature eagle1 in july's SCC, I'd say your car is right up their alley



Is it out already!? If its out, I will have to swing by the bookstore ASAP. Congrats Ed!

dklau33
05-22-2006, 07:49 PM
Wow, that's some great stuff. Can't wait to get my issue in the mail. And can't wait to do Cali Speedway with Roval in July with the good people of SV.

paemt
05-22-2006, 09:38 PM
nice feature eagle1 in july's SCC, I'd say your car is right up their alley



Is it out already!? If its out, I will have to swing by the bookstore ASAP. Congrats Ed!



Yep, its out.

Eagle1
05-23-2006, 09:39 AM
I have not seen it, so time to go to the supermarket and grab a copy.
The Roval on Sunday was lots and lots of fun. Did three sessions. Worked my lap time down to 1:58, which for this old fogie is not too bad. The car has a lot more in it to go faster. I did not do the banked turn at more than 137mph, and without doubt it will do better than 150mph...but when you strap your fanny in there and there is a big bad concrete wall glaring at you...there is what I think must be reflected upon as a "moment of clarity". This occurs when your ego attains a diameter smaller than your anus, which itself is puckered to the size of a little copper BB. The underbody diffuser in front came loose from the buffeting and had to be cut away in the rear section as all the attachment points tore apart from the screws and it was flapping. The metal hanger piece totally ripped off too. One allen bolt on a rear brake rotor disappeared someplace on the track as well. Some pretty serious stresses going on out there. But the motor was just bulletproof and the temps stayed rock solid on 100 degrees centigrade through each session. So the cooling approach is working like a dream. And I was carrying 200+ pound passengers too. Counting my car there were 7 VRT cars there. We had a mighty good time. Nothing broke, nobody hit anything or scratched anything or got hurt. Big smiles all over the place.

350ZNV
05-23-2006, 11:43 AM
LOL, you crack me up Ed. I really wish I could have been an 8th VRT car out there with you guys, but I will be out there in July running the ROVAL with SV. I will have to go pick up your magazine tonight and check it out.

Eagle1
05-23-2006, 03:15 PM
Mike:
It was great running weather. Overcast and cool, very slight breeze, about 73 degrees compared to Saturday when it was sunny and 84 degrees. The cars ran like lightning.
I passed a Testarossa, a Modena and a F360.....all on the same day!! And have it on tape as well. Held level with the F360 all the way down the straight, then blew by on the outside through the Roval, and took an Evo in the same pass for good measure. Darn car was hustling at .9bar of boost. Easily could push her up another .1 or .2 with no worries at all. Great stuff. Totally Great stuff. But as great as the motor is...it is the handling package that counts. Dayton was running an NA VRT G35 only a few seconds slower than the TT cars, but with the same handling package. He was losing the time in the front straight and infield straights, but driving as well or better in the twisties....and so that is something to seriously realize, that with the VRT tuned handling packages and some driver practice and skill, you can go like "stink" and do not have to put all that dough into a motor build. True you will not be as fast......but you can be REAL FAST nonetheless.
Hats off to Dayton, he was smokin!!!!!!

350ZNV
05-23-2006, 03:56 PM
Dayton is a good driver with a very well setup car. I am glad the event was a success for everybody and I can't wait to see the video. I just pre-registered for the one-day July event at the ROVAL with Speed Ventures. Had to sign up early to ensure I had a spot. I am already upset that I had to miss last weekend, I would be devistated if I missed my chance in July http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. See you in a few weeks back on my turf!

Eagle1
06-12-2006, 03:58 PM
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/

Here is the link to the article on the car published electronically by SCCM. Lots of pictures here

helldorado
06-12-2006, 05:52 PM
Great writeup. Congrats to you and VRT on the well deserved publicity!

BTW, what was the suspenion snafu that was alluded to in article?

Eagle1
06-12-2006, 06:03 PM
At the top of the strut on the left front there was water accumulating in the little cup, and it rusted out the adjustment on the damper. So it was full soft and could not be stiffened up. On a twisty circuit that goes clockwise, to have the left front on full soft is a problem!! The car had been out of action for a couple of months getting redone, and it got wet (Jan-Feb) in the downtime. That is all it took. Cleaned the mess up, drilled a weep hole to not let water accumulate, replaced the Tein motor for the damper, and we were back in business.

Eagle1
06-23-2006, 08:57 AM
Well, I think we figured out what the problem was with the allen bolt on the rotor of the left rear brake. Apparently, even though the fronts bear the brunt of the braking demands and you would think get the hottest, that is not necessarily true because they get a big gulp of air flow to help with the dissipation of heat, while the rears are pretty much tucked back and away from fresh air, and thus less exchange. I have to start thinking about whether a mod to duct air to the rear brakes would make sense. What we think happened after talking to some folks is that the rotors and hats got so hot that they literally caused the allen bolts to crack during the cool down. Then when we went back out and heated them up, and cooled them down, and put them under stress......breakage of the bolt holding your hats and rotors on.

This is a "bad" thing to have happen.

So, guess what? AP Racing has a full on race hat and special sleeved bolts for this application for the braking system. We did not know about that, so we did an upgrade ($1,300 for the two rears only) and voila there seems to be no problem. In fact, unless you go to the track and go like heck and brake like heck there should not be any need for this. Over the course of a year plus this has apparently only happened once to one other car.....but I had the disquieting thought that a seriatim failure of bolts would be possible and it would be at potentially the worst possible time, when you were going hard through the Roval at high speed and there was all that heavy loading on the wheels.....so I changed out the rears. I will see how that set up works and let you know.

I sent Riffster a picture of the old rotor and hat (front wheel) and the new rotor and hat (back wheel with gold colored hat) so that you can visually see the difference.

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery/d/5776-2/DSC00807_edited.JPG
New racing-spec rear hat and rotors. As Eagle1 writes above, the old ones were having Allen Bolts sheared off by heat fatigue. (note by Riff.)

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery/d/5780-2/DSC00808_edited.JPG
Already-installed front racing-spec hat and rotors on Eagle1's coupe. Not as 'pretty' but every bit as track-worthy as their newer, spiffier brothers on the rear! (note by Riff.)

For funsies I have driven the car to work every day this week...on the Hoosiers for extra giggles. (Only 14 miles to work). And on a couple of spots on the Pasadena Freeway given it a squirt on the throttle in second and third gear just to see what the effect is. The answer is a bit hard to say because you get to the speed limit too fast. The rear grabs so hard that the car can jump from side to side when it hooks on to those little sawn ridges in the concrete. This is no longer a civilized little lady.

Riffster
06-23-2006, 01:33 PM
I'll have your pics up this evening as soon as I get home.

- Riff

Riffster
06-24-2006, 12:11 AM
I'll have your pics up this evening as soon as I get home.

- Riff

The pics promised are now posted above in the pertinent post by Eagle1.

They are from our FA Gallery in a smaller, more scroll-friendly size. If you want the full-sized high-definition pics go to these links:

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery/d/5774-2/DSC00807_edited.JPG

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery/d/5778-3/DSC00808_edited.JPG

Enjoy! :)

- Riff

helldorado
06-24-2006, 12:26 AM
Wow, definitely a noticable difference in the size of the bolts attaching the hat to the rotor. Have any of the other VRT vehicles you track with using the AP kit shown any indicators of fatigue? I'm just surprised that you would have that issue while Mike's monster coupe isn't. Is your coupe that much heavier or are your driving it that much more aggressively or is it a combo of braking and the aggresive pads?

Eagle1
06-24-2006, 11:44 AM
Helldorado:
It has happened before, also on the rears, but only on one car to my knowledge, a year or so ago. And not catastrophically, just one bolt I think. And in the case of my car. One bolt. (I need to check with the mechanic again because I did not get a report as requested that all the bolts on the two rears when removed be looked at to see if any more were cracked. I think I would have heard if there were other damaged bolts, but I will check again.)
My coupe is not heavier than others, but I do think it is a factor associated with aggressive braking. Mike had it happen to a 350Z convertible he had and was pushing hard, I think about a year ago. But it was an isolated occurence. Here it appears to be the same thing with me. But two "isolated" occurences suggests to me that the spec on the typical AP kit, which by the way holds up better and brakes better than any other I have tried under similar conditions and use, is robust and more than adequate for anything short of truly hard charging track use.....and they have a solution for that which is readily available....it just costs a bunch of money. It makes sense that they deliver a package that is cost competitive for the overwhelming majority of BBK users (who in themselves are already a small part of the brake market) because otherwise they really would not sell any units of this category because they would be overengineered for almost everybody's use.
The experience does not immediately lead to a conclusion that there is a problem with the allen bolts on the AP Racing brake kit. Quite to the contrary, long after the failure limits of other systems has been passed, these units deliver good braking performance. However, every system is going to have a limit, and if you are NA, or even FI but with lower power so that you are not reaching the speeds that 500rwhp will deliver on a track, you probably are going to be just peachy. The difference in having that extra power does mean that you are slowing down on certain corners much more. Whereas before I would be slowing from 145-150mph to enter turn 3 at Cal Speedway (after the Roval) to take the compound 90 degree turns of turn3 and 4, to about 45-50 mph.....now I am slowing from 160mph to the same 45-50...the max speed that my set up will allow. And there is incremental speed on many, though not all, of the turns associated with that extra few mph. At some point the heat is just going to catch up with you due to that speed.
I will know even more after some hard driving on the set up. But that seems to be the direction we are going in our evaluation, and if anybody knows more about or has experienced this, we would all very much like to hear about it.
Cheers.
Ed

helldorado
06-25-2006, 03:08 PM
Absolutely. That's where I was going with my thinking, wondering if it was truly an isolated occurrence or if any of the other VRT cars were pushing the limits of the AP brakes as well. I had assumed Mike A's coupe and yours were around the same weight and using the same brake setup so I was trying to eliminate the variables in my mind why you experienced the bolt failure and he hadn't, because I would consider his vehicle more than capable of punishing the brakes as much as your car could. So is it something he might encounter later on or if there was a difference in driving style that you were heating up your rotors more quickly and to a higher temp, or maybe its just not seeing as much track time. All things being the same, with the weight of his car plus the required braking since that car is such an accelerative monster, I'd expect him to run into the same issue in time.

By the way, did you replace the entire caliper setup or just the rotor? I'm pretty sure the AP "track" BBK uses a different caliper in addition to the rotor on the fronts, I'm unsure about the rears. You are also 100% dead on too in the analysis of the track kit. That setup, while not only being extremely expensive is overengineered for more than probably 98% of the already small market, myself included. Good luck and I'm looking forward to your impressions of the new setup. I believe its a floating rotor design?

Riffster
06-25-2006, 07:50 PM
Several guesses at why Eagle1 experienced an Allen Bolt failure and his VRT running mate did not.


Different tracks - some tracks are 'tire eaters', some are 'brake eaters.'
Different driving styles - some guys are the 'brake-at-last-millisecond' types and brake harder, other brake earlier and longer - usually the earlier brake technique wears pads and rotors down a little earlier, and the later brake technique introduces higher heat and trauma promoting microcracks and possible minor system failures (of which a single cracked Allen might be one.)
Different pad formulas, brake line types, brake fluid formulas and also venting to the brakes - it's amazing how much good venting can bring the temps down! Lower temps would make the heat fatigue factor much less, so maybe it's possible the Z has a tad better circulation to the brakes than the G does.It also might be as simple as a slightly defective bolt or just amount of time spent on the track.

- Riff

idrive
06-26-2006, 12:48 PM
do you guys think there is enough airflow under the car to grab and put on the rear brakes or are you thinking of trying to grab it from the sides with a more visible scoop...NSX fiberglass ducts would loook swwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttt ttt

Riffster
06-26-2006, 01:30 PM
I know 6MT4Me has had front brake cooling ducts under his coupe before - he had problems with them getting broken repeatedly though due to low ride height and chassis dips. I also think he uses Titanium backing plates he had machined especially for his setup. You should PM if you're interested in either of the above.

- Riff

Eagle1
06-26-2006, 09:19 PM
do you guys think there is enough airflow under the car to grab and put on the rear brakes or are you thinking of trying to grab it from the sides with a more visible scoop...NSX fiberglass ducts would loook swwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttt ttt

You hit it on the nose. It is a real problem trying to figure out how to scoop air underneath and duct it to the rears. I think it is going to take going to a body panel scoop. Ugh. I say that because, if you are going to do that, one might as well do a wide flare kit, move the wheels out, and put a full and true wing on the animal. Sublety is totally gone. But for getting downforce at over 60mph....it could be a big track enhancer. So much for daily driver stealth, though.

Eagle1
06-30-2006, 10:25 PM
Putting a new set of Nitto 555 on the street wheels, taking the race wheels and rubber off, and planning to run the car during the summer on the wastegate boost setting and use it as a frequent daily driver car. Will report on how it behaves as a streetable DD as contrasted to a track beast. With triple digit temps out here on occasion now, it is too hot to be putting on the three layer nomex and going on the track (like wearing a kitchen mitt, then jumping in the oven). Besides, I am getting married in four weeks....got to pay attention to some other things for just a little while at least.

helldorado
07-01-2006, 01:31 AM
So much for daily driver stealth, though.
How much stealth was there with the 315 rubber and VRT / Nitto emblems all over the car to begin with? :D

Congrats on the upcoming nuptials and enjoy it all! I just hope you don't ride your fiancee as hard as the coupe! At least if you do, make sure to invest in the proper mods to her first so she can handle the rough stuff as well as it does! :p
:obszoener: :essen_wos6:

Eagle1
07-01-2006, 09:40 AM
You are one very bad boy Helldorado.

(I knew I liked you!)

Eagle1
11-18-2006, 04:41 PM
Well, it has been three and a half months of marriage and things are settling down. She is moved in and getting used to my kids, and we are getting used to her kitty kats.

And the weather has cooled down and I have had the chance to get out there and start driving the tracks again. Two weeks ago did Laguna Seca and last week Sears Point.

Using the video camera and timing off that, since the transponders were fritzed, she was doing 1:45-1:46 at Laguna Seca and 1:57-1:58 at Sears Point (LeMans road course configuration using the Carousel turn 6). There is easily another 3-4 seconds in there to shave on the Sears lap times. I was just running the course for the second time (the first being in early 2004). At Laguna it was the first run on the new Stance coilovers and there was some orientation to creeping up on limits, and some noise abatement problems (at .9bar of boost I got black flagged for exceeding the 92 decibel sound limit, so had to back off to .8bar. At Sears Point the limit for sound is 102 DB, so there were no issues there).

So, the track times are definitely respectable for a daily driver capable car. I need to get a driver "tune up" and will probably get out to an advanced car control class and shake it around hard to get the edge back. Maybe get out to Thunderhill in the next couple of weeks.

Riffster
11-18-2006, 06:07 PM
I checked out Stance's site about the coilovers. I assume you're using the Z33-spec coilovers with 12K front and 5K rear springs?

Your impressions on the Stance versus the Tein Flex?

- Riff

Eagle1
11-18-2006, 09:00 PM
Yes.
Very tolerable on the road. It is not a mouth rattling ride. But most important it is nicely linear and stiff under hard cornering, and with the tires is promoting a very predictable response closer to the limits. Don't misinterpret...the Tein Flex with the EDFC is super neat. But at Sears Point coming hard up the hill out of turn 1, and then hard braking and turning tightly into turn 2, where you have a lot of inertial load transfer to the front left and with a "light" lift over the top of that camber and needing to time the transition to throttle to keep the rear down....the balance of feel is not essential...it is critical to survival. In that regard the Stance is a clearly superior offering when the car is in aggressive performance situations. I had the car just on the edge of sliding, and a photo where you can see under the car in that turn with almot 1/3 of the front and rear inside tires showing light under them. But the car is almost flat, with little body roll, and the tires on the outside firmly planted flat to the track surface. I will send that pic to you and perhaps you can post it up here.

Riffster
11-18-2006, 11:15 PM
Sure, go ahead and send the pic.

By all means I understand that the Flex are a sort of 'transistional' coilover - they're for spirited driving on the street and *some* track situations. I was just curious as to the reason for the change and how much civility on the street is surrendered.

Were any other coilovers considered? KTS? Tanabe?

- Riff

Riffster
11-19-2006, 03:38 AM
http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery/d/13919-1/Sears_Point_November_12__2006_002_small_edited.JPG

This gives everyone an idea of the layout that produces the right side wheel behavior seen.

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery/d/13916-1/Sears_Point_11_12_06_002_edited.jpg
Closeup of Eagle1's Twin Turbo G35 Coupe at Sears Point Raceway. Note right front and rear tires coming 1/3 off the pavement at Turn 2 apex exit!

- Riff

Eagle1
12-31-2006, 02:08 PM
Took the car to the Redline Time Attack at Buttonwillow. She did a 2:05 on the race #13 set up, which is pretty respectable for a car with air conditioning and stereo! Here is a picture of the track map.


http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Eagle1_photo/ButtonwillowTrackMap13.gif


Here is turn into the Cotton Corners, going clockwise. This is after a fourth gear WOT run down the preceding straight, a hard straight brake and then trail brake during turn in to promote a slight rotation or yaw into the turn. Note in the picture below the right front tire on top of the painted curb demarking the inside edge of the track surface, right on the apex point.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Eagle1_photo/ButtonwillowDecember22006093.jpg

Here is a photo taken a fraction of a second later. Note two things. Firstly, the rear tire is now on top of the same curb point, reflecting that rotation was over and the car is pointed straight throught both front and rear tire crossings on the curb. Secondly, the front lip is slightly higher, showing weight transfer to the rear of the car as it is under acceleration just into and through apex. Lateral load is evident, but not extreme.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Eagle1_photo/ButtonwillowDecember22006094.jpg



Car is now in the shop getting new front rotors, pads, some rear link repair, and a front damper valve was sticking and so I sent those back to be rebuilt. These things wear out when you run hard, so no complaints. (did better than the yellow Vette behind, so what more do you want?) Hope to run again next weekend at laguna seca, but depends on whether the car is finished in time. No rushing when it comes to getting it done right.

Eagle1
01-12-2007, 10:19 PM
Took the car after the repairs to laguna seca with Track-Masters Racing and NASA on January 7th. Perfect weather and conditions. Car ran beautifully. Had the tires singing in virtually every corner.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Eagle1_photo/_HOP1703.jpg

helldorado
01-12-2007, 10:32 PM
Man.... you make house-hunting all that more painful. Do you know how much I want to have that same fun you're having right now?!?!?

Eagle1
01-13-2007, 01:53 PM
Man.... you make house-hunting all that more painful. Do you know how much I want to have that same fun you're having right now?!?!?

Come to California, Dude! Catch some rays, drive some track, turn some wrenches, sip some wine, give the pretty girls some of that attention they keep asking for. Or, like, is none of that your thing?

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/Eagle1_photo/_HOP0225.jpg

paemt
01-19-2007, 04:38 AM
I see a video camera there. Would it be possible to get some video posted?

Eagle1
01-19-2007, 11:00 AM
I see a video camera there. Would it be possible to get some video posted?

Alas, I cannot. This picture was taken in the first session, we were going really cautiously, and I did not turn it on. Too bad because this is the session when the little spec Miata in front of me lost its steering knuckle coming down Turn 9 and went see sawing down the straight and into the gravel pit at the end of Turn 10. The track stewards at NASA told me to take the camera out of the car and so the rest of the day I had to run without it. I have never had that be a problem at any event before....but their day, their rules or you don't get to play. So no video. I will get some from the next time up there at the end of the month.

paemt
01-25-2007, 03:48 AM
That would have been interesting to see.

I think we will all be looking forward to seeing the car in action.

Eagle1
02-22-2007, 08:51 AM
Decided to make a couple of adjustments to the car. Swap out the turbos to the bigger 700's, and do some aero work. Front diffuser/splitter and a rear wing to get some more downforce. Would like to widen the stance a bit, but have not come to a conclusion on how I want to achieve that yet. Should be out of action for about 2-3 weeks, then back to the track to try it out.

helldorado
02-22-2007, 11:00 AM
Couple adjustments.. :rolleyes: The BB700's will definitely make it a whole new car again. You'll have to post up some before and after dyno comparisons. Since your power will be coming on later and harder, you'll need to let us know how the change in the torque curve affects it on the tight and twisty tracks!

What did you have in mind for the aero upgrades and widening the stance? You're running what, 315's right now? You looking for a 335 or wider on a 12" wheel? I can't see the justification in a full widebody kit, so I think if you do decide to go that route, its really going to be some custom fabrication of fender extensions to open up the wheel wells some more.

Then again, you might just shock us all and find everything you're looking for in the APR Performance widebody aero kit

http://www.aprperformance.com/images/zoom/AVLLAN/IMG_0001.jpg

http://www.aprperformance.com/images/zoom/AVLLAN/IMG_0006.jpg

Riffster
02-22-2007, 01:32 PM
http://www.aprperformance.com/images/zoom/AVLLAN/IMG_0001.jpg

http://www.aprperformance.com/images/zoom/AVLLAN/IMG_0006.jpg

Good suggestion Sean - running something like 335's on the rear - 275's on the front? Ooooooo .......

And this is where a wing on a G35C looks good.

And the color is fantastic - works well with black too.

Hmmm ..... ideas, ideas. :D

- Riff

Eagle1
02-22-2007, 03:01 PM
Yes, the APR wing on the back, painted white.

I have seen the widebody kit, but not sold that I need to spend that kind of money on a body kit. A front diffuser/splitter custom made with an aluminum underbody tray is where I am leaning for the front aero.

Presently running 275F and 315R.

So right now just the wing and splitter, and the 700BB. then to a next step for the widened stance. Plan is to finish the first step by March 10 and take her up to Laguna Seca for a run on Monday the 12th. Then get to noodling about how to get the wheels pushed out about 3 inches on each side, how big a shoe to put on it and how, and the body work. I definitely want to work in ducting for air flow to the rear brakes (I note the APR kit has a nice opportunity built in to do just that, and would like to get a more open front bumper to gulp more air to the various coolers and heat exchangers. SO.........................we shall see.

helldorado
02-22-2007, 03:12 PM
Just for being right about APR, I'm giving myself a :sign_cookie:

I fully agree with you on this one, eagle1. The cost of a widebody kit really doesn't seem to justify what you gain from it on a track vehicle vs a show car. Custom fender alterations are more cost effective, but it really just depends on materials being used and how cleanly you want to integrate it with the rest of the body. Labor and cost of it, easily turns it into a $8-10k proposition before even getting new wheels and rubber!

Other than a retune, is there anything else that is going to need to be done to accommodate the BB700 turbos? You still going stick with the split second box or go to a more robust EMS package?

Eagle1
02-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Just for being right about APR, I'm giving myself a :sign_cookie:

I fully agree with you on this one, eagle1. The cost of a widebody kit really doesn't seem to justify what you gain from it on a track vehicle vs a show car. Custom fender alterations are more cost effective, but it really just depends on materials being used and how cleanly you want to integrate it with the rest of the body. Labor and cost of it, easily turns it into a $8-10k proposition before even getting new wheels and rubber!

Other than a retune, is there anything else that is going to need to be done to accommodate the BB700 turbos? You still going stick with the split second box or go to a more robust EMS package?

Jim Wolf and Clark Steppler are going to tune it, so I am going with what they want to work with, and that is their customized version of the SS box. There will be different manifolds and down pipes, and I will switch the cams out to the JW S2 units he had ground for these turbos. Of course I will do the thermal coating again.

Should be interesting to see/feel the difference. ON a high hp track it will make a difference, and I think on the long hard pulls of laguna seca, it will show. Especially from Turn 5 up to 8 with its 300 foot elevation climb, and the front straight down into Turn 2. Otherwise, no advantage there. But it would not surprise me if the additional torque/hp did not deliver a second or two advantage just from those two sections. (Assuming I can hook it up.)