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kam5927
05-07-2006, 07:05 PM
i justwant to know..how good is it?
-the add says 12.43's on stock internals...

is the ATI PROcharger really the best FI for the z...
..

just curious, please feed my starving mind...

thank you!

paemt
05-07-2006, 07:18 PM
I'll let the Z guys get into detail with this but it depends on what type of driving style you have and what you want to do with the car. The one thing I do know about the Greddy kit is it is only safe on stock internals at stock boost. If you are into racing as it seems, you might find the urge to turn up the boost quickly. That is easy(sometimes too easy) on a turbo car. If you turn up the boost at all you are flirting with danger.

Here is a great write-up comparing Superchargers and Turbos.
Comparison Thread (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=350Z&Number=68080659&page= 0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Chad

wperdigon
05-09-2006, 08:05 AM
I say go with the Jim Wolf Kit - makes over 400 to the tires out of the box - best kit for the money - with loads of room to grow

kam5927
05-10-2006, 12:11 PM
i don't have a z...atleast yet.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/star-wars-smiley-008.gif

i was just wondering as to how great the kit from GReddy is--since i hear a guy who has it brag about it...

and then i also heard that the ati procharger is the best form of FI for the 350

driving style: lets say street with the weekends spent at the track (1/4 mile)

Deathmage
05-10-2006, 04:32 PM
greddy tt seems to be yesterday's news.. aps single, jwt tt and turbonetics seems to be the 'in' thing these days. I've seem many peeps blow their engines with greddy, couple of years back (prolly from improper tuning amongst other reasons) so I tend to shy away from it.

bambam
05-11-2006, 11:01 AM
Hey everyone has their personal poison... I am running the Greddy TT and pushing 502 whp @ 10 PSI for my high boost setting... I have been running this for a couple of months now. Prior to that I was running 415 whp @7.5 PSI for over 6 months...

To each their own. I am still on stock internals, but have put a lot into the cooling, exhaust & tuning of my maps.
I think if done right you can push the stock block to 550 + whp before it gives... but that is another discussion..

You asked how good is the Greddy and the ATI ProCharger. I can only speak to my experiences with the Greddy kit (as stated above) and my plans to push the Greddy kit to MUCH higher limits with my newly built engine next month.

Paemt rounded it our pretty well. I do disagree with the stock boost on stock internals but that is me, if Greddy releases it at 5.6PSI, they you know they have done extensive testing for that level of power on stock engines. You need to be careful about making any boot changes without first planning on the supporting infrastructure of the car and proper tuning. I have put a LOT of effort in building mine so that is capable of handling 700+whp, so I can turn up the boost and tune it appropriately. I would probably not increase the boost without some basic enhancements to the clutch and cooling systems.

As for driving style and expected use of the car. Are you looking for low end power for normal driving or a larger boost range that kicks in towards 3->4k RPM? My Greddy starts spooling around 2400 and give me max boost a@WOT around 3600 RPM with power peaking about 6100 and staying level until 6500. I think this is pretty good, but with different trim levels you could change that. With the Greddy kit you can grow from the stock of 350/ 375whp àover 800whp, all depends on how much work you want to do to the car. But from a basic standpoint it has some lag for daily driving, which for me is a good thing.

Blowing an engine can be done on ANY FI system and to be honest probably has a lot more to do with improper tuning or people just pushing systems too far. This is not a science so to speak, we are pushing the limits of a block that was not necessarily designed for the abuses we put it though. There will ALWAYS be a chance of something going wrong, heck even stock cars have problems and need to have things serviced under warranty. You have to be willing to accept this and with that understanding only go as far as you feel you are willing to risk it. If you are worried about warranty, go with a Turbonetics ST… they have great service and a great warranty. If you are looking for more of a stock feel (linear boost etc) go with a Super Charger..

You choice, do some research, talk to guys with various installs (remember to take everything everyone brags about their setup with a grain of salt) and better yet get some rides in the different types of setups to get a feel for how they drive under normal and HARD acceleration.

Good luck with whatever you decide and there are plenty of people out here willing to give you a hand, advice and cheer you on. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just my $.02 of course…
--B

kam5927
05-15-2006, 11:33 AM
thanks for the info

eric12
06-10-2006, 08:40 AM
I'm not a big pro on mechanics but i know what has to be known. This is the kit I have on my Z:

http://turboneticsinc.com/ts_overview.htm

I run it at 13psi. This is the other thing i saved up for that allows me to run it that high:

http://www.builtzmotors.com/(Custom built longblock sleeved)
The engine alone gives me a good 500rwhp

with the kit im making high 600's.

Now im not saying for you to save up all your savings for this, im just giving you recommendations.

You will need to do alot to the exhaust and fuel return and definetly tune up your engine if you want to race, if its for normal street use then your fine, just get a kit and your good.

I am not sure if this is true or not but this is wht the guy told me when i bought the turbo kit. I asked him about the GReddy TT kit and he said its a good kit but theres a couples problems with it. He said that a single turbo is faster because a TT, the air goes through the first turbo but then it stops and goes through the second turbo. He said you will get more rwhp but that the weight of two turbos will slow the car down to a small amount slower than the single turbo kit. He said you will also save about $1000. Turbonetics is a well trusted company. I decided to go with the single and turned out great.

If you want some mods these are some sites I got my stuff from:

Rating:1-5
http://www.mynismo.com/ *5*
http://www.builtzmotors.com/ *5*
http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AAM&Category_Code=350Z *5*
http://e-wheelz.com/enter.html?target=volk_specials.html *4*( i have the Volk Racing GT-C rims)

I really hope this helped if not then im sorry, but you can contact anyof the owners of those sites and they answer any questions clearly =)

IF I AM WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING PLEASE CORRECT ME, AGAIN I AM NOT A MECHANIC. IM ONLY 18.

imported_Ish_
06-10-2006, 09:30 AM
I think this is what your shop meant. Correct me if I'm wrong guys. I am no expert either.

A TT kit is not "slower". The two will give you different ranges of power.

The single turbo will spool up quicker giving you boost earlier on in the RPM range and will remail smoother from their until redline.

A twin turbo will have greater turbo lag, but will give you much more power once they kick in.

wperdigon
06-10-2006, 10:42 AM
Jeff,

It all has to do with the size of the turbo -

with twins you design it in essence to be a turbo for three cylinders since thats what pushing it - 3.5 divided by 2 equals 1.7 displacement - taking that you know what size turbo to match it to -

you can have big twins and the lag would be long but with big boost

eric12
06-10-2006, 12:34 PM
Thank you for clearing that up Ish, makes a little more sense. I suggest you take some classes on learning to control your car and research some more on turbos and mods. You are better off paying $300 and know what you are doing than not knowing what you're doing, you just wanna go fast, f*** up your engine and then have to pay a good $1-2k to repair it, maybe even more sometimes.

imported_Ish_
06-10-2006, 02:01 PM
Jeff,

It all has to do with the size of the turbo -

with twins you design it in essence to be a turbo for three cylinders since thats what pushing it - 3.5 divided by 2 equals 1.7 displacement - taking that you know what size turbo to match it to -

you can have big twins and the lag would be long but with big boost

I thought I was 100% correct... thanks will!

I think that is the impression I have also because I'm used to hearing people going with big TT kits for max dyno power

helldorado
06-10-2006, 03:38 PM
I am not sure if this is true or not but this is wht the guy told me when i bought the turbo kit. I asked him about the GReddy TT kit and he said its a good kit but theres a couples problems with it. He said that a single turbo is faster because a TT, the air goes through the first turbo but then it stops and goes through the second turbo. He said you will get more rwhp but that the weight of two turbos will slow the car down to a small amount slower than the single turbo kit. He said you will also save about $1000. Turbonetics is a well trusted company. I decided to go with the single and turned out great.
Whoever sold you that kit doesn't know much about turbo systems or knew you didn't and lied to make a sale. Its a common, but sad occurrence in that many manufacturers will sell kits to everybody and anybody, particularly shops with less than stellar reputations. What he described was a sequential twin turbo setup and gave you BS info to sell you on the TN kit. I'm not saying good or bad about turbonetics, but he was pushing the TN kit because he was looking for a sale and figured it was easier to push you out the door with that, rather than really give you good info and help you out. This is the reason that kits like the JWT TT is only available through a select number of outlets and TN / APS kits are overflowing the shelves of other dealers.

The GReddy TT kit is not sequential. Like every other TT kit available for the G/Z, each turbo sits behind an exhaust manifold. Since the VQ35 is a V configuration, you have 2 manifolds, left and right. A turbo is attached to each manifold. The GReddy has some lag because it uses larger turbos which allow for much greater top-end power. There is slightly more complexity in installing and tuning a kit like GReddy, but not for the reasons he gave you.

A kit like the TN ST is always going to be try to compromise between low end torque and top end power. You can't have a turbo that builds full boost at 2000 rpm be able to compress air efficiently at 6500 rpm. The hybrid design turbos used by TN try, but thats why you don't being to build full boost until 3000 rpm and its tapering off by 6000.

There's no way around it, single turbos get MUCH hotter than twin turbo setups. They're being driven by a lot more exhaust gas and are expected to supply all the boost. A twin-turbo set will have each turbo pushed on every other putt of the engine, meaning only the exhaust gasses of every other cylinder firing will go through a turbo. This allows them to run cooler and run more efficiently, particularly at higher RPM. Because of this, use of a slightly smaller turbo in a TT setup is favorable because they'll have the fast response, but still have the ability to work efficiently at higher rpm's because they don't get nearly as hot. So you either go one of two ways with ST. A smaller turbo that gives you better low-end response and builds boost quickly, but gets hot and loses efficiency at high RPM's, or a larger turbo that builds boost slowly and makes really efficient high end power.

Also, FWIW, I highly doubt the builtZmotors long blocks push 500 whp by themselves. Yes, they work with great shops and look to build a great motor, but they're designed to handle 500 whp with FI, not make that power by themselves. I'd like to see a dyno and see if you're really making that 600 whp. I have never seen an out of the box TN kit make that kind of power.

Not a slam, but I don't think you know what has to be known about turbocharging your car. If you really wanted to know what had to be known, you should read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=0837601606&itm=1). Its not written at a mechanic's level, it's written at the level that an average person can read and understand the concepts of turbocharging end to end. For that matter, anybody who is considering a ST or TT should read it.


Thank you for clearing that up Ish, makes a little more sense. I suggest you take some classes on learning to control your car and research some more on turbos and mods. You are better off paying $300 and know what you are doing than not knowing what you're doing, you just wanna go fast, f*** up your engine and then have to pay a good $1-2k to repair it, maybe even more sometimes.

That's funny because _Ish wants to stay NA. So you'll have to let him off the hook for not knowing everything about FI. But I would recommend you heed your own advice as well! ;)

eric12
06-10-2006, 04:44 PM
K, thanks for the help.

imported_Ish_
06-10-2006, 05:55 PM
hehe NA all the way Whoot Whoot!!


Turbos are cool though... no questions about it. But you have to get cool A pillar gauges and a fatty intercooler too!! Those are awesome! :cool:

idrive
06-10-2006, 06:25 PM
this is a little reiterated but here i go...

i'd say kit for kit, a tt kit is typically designed to produce faster spool than a comparable single turbo kit such as turbonetics, the power of the single turbo kit is typically more linear though because they obviously run a larger turbo than what a tt kit would. this is all with regards to out of the box turbo kits without upgraded turbo sizes etc.

of course the turbonetics single kit is sized to offer the best blend of spool and power, but i'd say that the JWT and Greddy kits have faster spool characteristics and a higher peak hp

from what i have heard from owners and seat of the pants witness' the turbonetics single turbo kit is very similar to a supercharger kit with regards to power delivery, but with faster spool build up

idrive
06-10-2006, 06:34 PM
not to highjack this thread or anything but has anyone noticed some inconsistancies with Eric12's information...eric whats the deal? your advice please post says you are 16, above you say you are 18, you said the car came with a greddy kit, now it has turbonetics, you're running 13.5psi on the stock block or the built block you have yet installed or have installed?...i have read your post and i am just soooo confused, update your profile and keep us informed of what mods you have (put them in your signature maybe)

wperdigon
06-12-2006, 10:01 AM
hmmm - i'm starting to suspect.....