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munkfu
04-19-2007, 04:15 PM
I have big troubles trying to time my engine with PFC.

The PFC timing reading is not the same as engine timing. After trying alot of thing, the timing is jumping alot at idle.

just as an example; it show 5 degres on crank pulley and 15 degres on PFC.
Here's the procedure I follow:

Warm up the engine till operate temp reached.
Rev 3 times pass 3000rpm
shutdown engine
install a ghetto spark wire between spark plug and coilpack
connect timing lamp
disconnect tps
start engine
set idle above 950 rpm
time the engine with CAS
shut down the engine
plug the tps and start it back.

Also....I had to reset the PFC before doing the timing and I can't do the idle procedure because the timing is way off and idle is way too high...same with AFR.

What should I do to set it right ?

wei240
04-19-2007, 04:40 PM
did you set your timing to 15 degrees with everything off?

because i believe you need to set it that correct first

munkfu
04-19-2007, 04:46 PM
yes, the timing mark and CAS is aligned properly.

vosko
04-19-2007, 04:48 PM
i just had to do this 2 days ago on my car with pfc etc. what mark on the pulley are you setting it to ? 2nd from the right is +15 degrees

also with the timing off my car didnt want to idle at all till about 80 degrees C water temp. my timing was only jumping around with the tps connected

munkfu
04-19-2007, 04:51 PM
yeah, im setting it to 2nd from the right.

Kingtal0n
04-19-2007, 04:52 PM
Vosko, both the power FC and the factory ECU have a function called "idle ignition control" In some PFCs it is toggleable but in some its always one.

What it does it when your TPS is at rest (no foot on gas pedal) the computer constantly adjusts timing to maintain a smooth idle RPM.

Thats why the FSM says to disc. the TPS before you try to set the timing. Otherwise, it may bounce all over the place.

So disc. the tps, and set the base timing in the PFC on the map to a stable number such as all 15's

then verify in the commander or on the laptop the timing being send to the ignition is 15 and not moving

then goto the crank pulley and set it to 15.

it doesnt matter what RPM the engine is at so long as the map is flat in the PFC and you verify it isnt jumping with the commander.

vosko
04-19-2007, 04:54 PM
yeah, im setting it to 2nd from the right.

edit king beat me to it!

is that idle control in the ETC? menu. i think mine has that and it is turned on by default

munkfu
04-19-2007, 04:57 PM
Since my PFC is reseted and need to do a self-learn idle procedure, should I do it before setting the timing or I start it then do the timing procedure, then reset the pfc and do the self-learn?

vosko
04-19-2007, 05:17 PM
in my experience the self learning idle thing doesnt do much. set the timing first and if you feel like it you can reset the pfc again

srs14
04-19-2007, 06:42 PM
what i did was turn off the idle ign control and o2 sensor feed back settings in FUNCTION SELECT under the ETC menu . then i monitored the ignition timing under the monitor screen to see if it was staying at a steady 15 * of timing then set it with a light. i didn't mess with the map at all. i think the pfc automatically giving idle ignition 15 degrees no matter if you adjust it in the map. i tried to turn the timing up at idle but the pfc wouldn't increase timing at idle. i think the timing map only comes into play when tps>1% . but i dont have the data-logit yet so i don't know.

munkfu
04-19-2007, 08:16 PM
I don't have the idle ign control in my FUNCTION SELECT menu...

there's only o2 sensor feedback, warnings and boost control kit

Kingtal0n
04-19-2007, 10:16 PM
Dont depend on any function in any electronics thats called "Self learn" what it really should read is "false hope" because all it ever gives you is false hope that it will solve a problem.

munkfu
04-20-2007, 06:10 PM
kingtal0n; alright :P

srs14; i'd like to know which version of PFC you have? The version that show on commander. Mine is for a S13 Red Top and maybe there's update I need to do to get newer features? Alot of ppl told me to disable some feature that I don't have.

BlazedGlory
04-20-2007, 08:39 PM
The information I found a while back was that when the engine sees less than 1000 rpm it goes into idle/timing mode @ 15*... Seemed to work for me. Or mine could be way off =P

350zAND240sx
07-24-2007, 09:32 PM
Sorry to bump a few month old thread, but I have a question.

My S15 PFC didn't want to idle right until it reached 60C-70C. I unplugged the tps set the idle. I then put a timing light after blipping the throttle to 2500rpm 3 times and it read 25BTDC. Doooh. So I stab the CAS to 15BTDC plug in the TPS and hop in the car. Dataloggit reads a solid 15 degrees. Then go back to the crank to read the timing again and it's at 8-9BTDC. Why the hell can't I get my PFC to get into timing mode? That's got to be the problem...

The car ran great and the idle is a lot better now but it's richer while shifting and power seems about the same *butt dyno*

Anyone know how to get the PFC to get into timing mode?

jetdriver
07-25-2007, 11:16 AM
I think when the motor is at operating temp and at idle the PFC goes into timing lock mode at 15* . This is what I have observed on mine. It does not matter what you have in the timing fields, because it always uses 15*. I say you should set your cas to give 15 with a timing light on the front pulley when the PFC says it is holding 15.

350zAND240sx
07-25-2007, 11:23 AM
So this can be done even with the TPS plugged in as long as the power fc reads 15*. TPS at idle is .51v

I think the main problem when unpluging the TPS is my IACV. My idle rises (1200rpm) so I adjust the idle lower (900rpm). Once I plug the TPS back in the idle drops even lower (500rpm). It could be a problem with my IACV which is why when I try to set the timing with the TPS unplugged things get goofy.

I'll just set the timing tonight once the power fc gets into 15* at operating temp with the TPS still connected.

steve shadows
07-25-2007, 11:56 AM
Dont depend on any function in any electronics thats called "Self learn" what it really should read is "false hope" because all it ever gives you is false hope that it will solve a problem.

pretty much , most of the target map features on ems' are bullsht too

BlazedGlory
07-25-2007, 06:44 PM
So this can be done even with the TPS plugged in as long as the power fc reads 15*. TPS at idle is .51v

I think the main problem when unpluging the TPS is my IACV. My idle rises (1200rpm) so I adjust the idle lower (900rpm). Once I plug the TPS back in the idle drops even lower (500rpm). It could be a problem with my IACV which is why when I try to set the timing with the TPS unplugged things get goofy.

I'll just set the timing tonight once the power fc gets into 15* at operating temp with the TPS still connected.

You set idle with your PFC settings...

Set your base timing to 15* after you reach operating temperature (should be about 80*C) and the PFC should read 15* as well while you do that... Like was previously mentioned, the PFC should lock it at 15* at idle - at operating temp...

350zAND240sx
07-25-2007, 09:23 PM
I noticed it locked so I set my intial mechanical timing to 15 and all is well. Word. :D Thanks guys.

Kingtal0n
07-29-2007, 12:26 PM
I noticed it locked so I set my intial mechanical timing to 15 and all is well. Word. :D Thanks guys.
the PFC locks the basemap timing to 15* in some ecus, yes that is true.
The way around it is NOT to adjust the basemap.
Instead, adjust the Ign vs TPS Section. Change one of the tps spots near the bottom to about 5% or so, then add or subtract whatever timing you want from the basemap in the box to the right.

Simple, and you can have any idle timing you want.
The reason the PFC Locks it is because of the auto-idle stabilization feature. It moved the timing back and forth +/- several degrees to keep the engine idle smooth when the feature is activated and the tps is at rest. I have a feeling the feature doesnt know the base timing, so it assumes that it is 15* and the PFC Locks it there. This would be a problem if you set it to say, 8* base timing (not that you would) but if you did and the feature thought it was set to 15* it might pull 8-10* of timing trying to lower the idle and you would wind up with negative timing and kill the motor.

Usually idle around 18-20* if the motor has cams or problems with response. more timing makes for a more snappy motor, usually.

BlazedGlory
07-29-2007, 01:11 PM
For some reason I don't have INJ vs. TPS in my FC Edit software... Any suggestions?

jetdriver
07-29-2007, 04:42 PM
the PFC locks the basemap timing to 15* in some ecus, yes that is true.
The way around it is NOT to adjust the basemap.
Instead, adjust the Ign vs TPS Section. Change one of the tps spots near the bottom to about 5% or so, then add or subtract whatever timing you want from the basemap in the box to the right.

Simple, and you can have any idle timing you want.
The reason the PFC Locks it is because of the auto-idle stabilization feature. It moved the timing back and forth +/- several degrees to keep the engine idle smooth when the feature is activated and the tps is at rest. I have a feeling the feature doesnt know the base timing, so it assumes that it is 15* and the PFC Locks it there. This would be a problem if you set it to say, 8* base timing (not that you would) but if you did and the feature thought it was set to 15* it might pull 8-10* of timing trying to lower the idle and you would wind up with negative timing and kill the motor.

Usually idle around 18-20* if the motor has cams or problems with response. more timing makes for a more snappy motor, usually.


This only works if you have a d-jetro PFC

fabiano
10-16-2008, 02:49 AM
I got nearly the same problem as BlazedGlory.
My Idle is allways at 15 and thats a bit rough. found my best idle at 22-23 (using temp adjustment). On my map the value is right but pfc don`t care about it.

the etc function idle ign control doesn`t exist. And no map for IGN vs TPS ;-(

what can I do?

BlazedGlory
10-16-2008, 08:05 AM
I think I've read (and may try myself) advancing your base timing to 20* or so and then retarding your entire map by 5* (or however much you advanced your base timing)...