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View Full Version : Dynoed Twinscroll Full-Race Manifold- Batlground Drift car



Vteckidd
08-20-2007, 01:03 PM
A testament to the guys at Garrett and Full Race. Our Race/Drift car was just not spooling when an where we wanted it to. Previous setup was a GT2871R and a non twin scroll. We decided to switch turbos to a 3071 and Full-Race was kind enough to send us a Twin Scroll manifold.

Well after installing this:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DSC05146.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DSC05148.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DSC05147.jpg

We went ahead an switched to Tomei 260 cams for the tomei solid lifters. STOCK BLOCK, Greddy Intake manifold and 750cc injectors round out the setup.

SR20DET

TUNED BY DAN OF BATLGROUND WITH AEM:
Nissan 240SX SR20DET

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DanRaceCar.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/DanRaceCarTQ.jpg

We picked up about 500rpms of spool even though we switched to a BIGGER turbo, and we made 425whp at only 17psi of boost on PUMP GAS.

Its gotta be one of the highest whp for that boost that i have ever seen. Car feels great too, so great that we won the Speedfed Nationals this past weekend, took 1st place!

Thanks guys!

Full-Race

http://www.batlground.com/gallery/albums/speefed/normal_100_1837.jpg

http://www.batlground.com/gallery/albums/speefed/normal_dsc02086xb7.jpg

http://www.batlground.com/gallery/albums/speefed/normal_dsc02100om9.jpg

http://www.batlground.com/gallery/albums/speefed/normal_dsc02102tb8.jpg :thumbup:

steve shadows
08-20-2007, 01:36 PM
congrats.



2871R doesnt really spool that great with the larger housing.

I take it was internally gated bottom mount?

Ive seen nromal single scroll gt30rs spool better than bottom mounts

Static Load tuning is everything for this type of racing.

too bad you cant do that on a dyno jet

its not really a BIGGER turbo unless per say housings and more efficent turbine wheel

SixSpeedSleuth
08-20-2007, 02:34 PM
Awesome! I saw this car in person this weekend. It rips! Took first place as OP noted. So, this now makes three people that i know of that have the FR Twin-Scroll Mani and 3071R that make 420whp on pump gas at 19PSI or under, and spool in the same ballpark or sooner than a 2871R. Sweet!

SoSideways
08-20-2007, 04:30 PM
Any reason why you guys stopped the dyno at 6750rpm?

steve shadows
08-20-2007, 04:52 PM
Any reason why you guys stopped the dyno at 6750rpm?

it looked like its going to nose dive on drop off.

but i cant tell.

im sure they are revving to 8k!!!

drift it up right

TS4l
08-20-2007, 06:27 PM
Looks like the 3071 and 3076 make about the same power at simalar boost. I made 411 at 16psi with a Twin Scroll 3076. I wonder what the difference would be if I used the .82 divided housing and at higher boost. Spool looks the same too. Seems like these turbos are almost the same.

Nice numbers and congrats on the win. I know for myself I have been very happy with the twin scroll setup and it seems like you guys will be too. The Tq curve is beautiful, awsome setup for road racing or drift.

robbbby
08-20-2007, 06:42 PM
I wonder what the difference would be if I used the .82 divided housing and at higher boost.

I thought both the 71mm and 76mm GT30's only came in a .78 divided housing?

TS4l
08-20-2007, 06:58 PM
You can get some .82 and 1.08 housings. But you can't get them in the USA unless you know the right people! PM me if you need to know how to get one.

Vteckidd
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Any reason why you guys stopped the dyno at 6750rpm?

We were having tach problems with the cable on the dyno. i can post the graph in speed but it will be small because the TQ spiked to 1000ft/lbs

Vteckidd
08-20-2007, 07:30 PM
BTW these are all in 3rd gear, ill post the 4th gear pull tomrrow.

for now, here is the car in action

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=16211511

turtl631
08-20-2007, 07:49 PM
Nice, I continue to lust after a TS 3071R setup. I love that you can hit these power levels on pump gas on a stock 2.0L block. Seems fairly reliable if you're tuned well also. Do both of the S14s have the same engine setup?

Kingtal0n
08-20-2007, 09:00 PM
If that was a third gear dyno pull then you are missing about 500rpm of spool that should be there on that graph! And as was mentioned, its a shame to see such a nice flat torque curve, but not see it to its end at least 8000 RPM... not to mention the solid lifters...

MATT_BACK_VASS
08-21-2007, 02:23 AM
5 digit redlines are so hot.

dan, turn it up!

steve shadows
08-21-2007, 01:34 PM
BTW these are all in 3rd gear, ill post the 4th gear pull tomrrow.

for now, here is the car in action

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=16211511

cool vid

but why in 3rd on the dyno?

Vteckidd
08-21-2007, 02:09 PM
we dynoed it in third gear until the end. 4th just takes to long, and puts too much wear an tear on the engine/car

ill have the 4th gear spool chart up when i get back from lunch

master chief
08-21-2007, 05:30 PM
Is the Turbo you have - GT3071, twin scroll ? I have the GT3071R 86ar WG..... Can i get a twin scroll housing for it ?

Allso, what did you have to change for the Solid lifter, exept the lifter offcours ?
I have the Tomi 260's non solid cams - Would i be able to use tham with solid lifters ?

Nice car and number, BTW !

steve shadows
08-21-2007, 05:38 PM
we dynoed it in third gear until the end. 4th just takes to long, and puts too much wear an tear on the engine/car

ill have the 4th gear spool chart up when i get back from lunch

not really.

and it shouldnt put too much wear on your car.

you think wear is bad on a dynojet?

ha!

try a brake eddy dyno.

car should be up to the task.

3rd will read higher output overall because the ratio is not 1:1

codyace
08-21-2007, 07:57 PM
we dynoed it in third gear until the end. 4th just takes to long, and puts too much wear an tear on the engine/car

ill have the 4th gear spool chart up when i get back from lunch

Good numbers...but:

To much wear in 4th vs 3rd? That's the first time I've ever heard that. Every car I've ever seen dynoed or watched tuned was done so in the 1:1 (typically 4th gear) as every other gear reads differently due to torque mulitplication of the gear...


I want to see 1:1 dynos soooooon :D

SixSpeedSleuth
08-21-2007, 08:31 PM
Good numbers...but:

To much wear in 4th vs 3rd? That's the first time I've ever heard that. Every car I've ever seen dynoed or watched tuned was done so in the 1:1 (typically 4th gear) as every other gear reads differently due to torque mulitplication of the gear...


I want to see 1:1 dynos soooooon :D

Haha. I thought that was a little odd too. Too much wear, but the car was drifted in a competition on a 100 degree day?? I heard in person that exact car bang off the rev limiter at least 100 times on Saturday! Good running car, but I would like to see a 4th gear pull as well ; ).

Vteckidd
08-21-2007, 10:05 PM
haha no because 4th gear takes TOO LONG to run out to 8500rpms. its just takes too long to do, so we tune in 3rd mostly, then do a few 4th gears to make sure everything is ok.

its a difference of 90mph vs 120mph too (sarcasm)

if its under 400whp USUALLY all you do is 3rd gear.

Epstein
08-21-2007, 10:30 PM
Congrats to Battleground and Full-Race for teaming up to produce a win!

Quit giving these guys a hard time. Just let these guys bask in the glow of their new trophy! Gear selection between 3rd and 4th for ultimate power is just a myth, higher gears do increase wear/tear, and spool on the dyno isn't the same on the street anyways. This sure is a tough crowd when you show up with a win, parts pics, action pics, dyno plots, and user experience, only to have half of the posts in your thread as complaints

vosko
08-21-2007, 10:38 PM
that is still too laggy for my taste and not enough tq...

codyace
08-21-2007, 10:53 PM
Congrats to Battleground and Full-Race for teaming up to produce a win!

Quit giving these guys a hard time. Just let these guys bask in the glow of their new trophy! Gear selection between 3rd and 4th for ultimate power is just a myth, higher gears do increase wear/tear, and spool on the dyno isn't the same on the street anyways. This sure is a tough crowd when you show up with a win, parts pics, action pics, dyno plots, and user experience, only to have half of the posts in your thread as complaints


I'm not complaining, I would just like to see a standard comparison in the engine's performance compared to everyone elses. I don't see how a dyno wears and tears a car more than full lock, baning limiter, middle of the day stuff ya know?

It's like saying your 125cc dirtbike makes XXX hp in the 125cc group, only to find out that it's a 2 stroke running against a bunch of 4 stroke bikes... (ok bad analogy, but you get the point)

Not hating, just curious. I guess being a 'grip' guy, I'm looking to find the flatest broadest torque curve around....and so far I'm not convinced enough to swithc my car around :D (not being cocky, just as it is)

Still don't understand the to long aspect...

aaronlosey
08-21-2007, 10:58 PM
awwww..... you said you were going to put a v8 in it :(

MATT_BACK_VASS
08-22-2007, 12:08 AM
whatever


GT35R

11000 rpm limit

5500-11000
beat that powerband

/discussion


i <3 battleground

when are we going drinking again?

aaronlosey
08-22-2007, 02:08 AM
whatever


GT35R

11000 rpm limit

5500-11000
beat that powerband

/discussion


i <3 battleground

when are we going drinking again?

that would be the worst drift car EVAR. it wouldn't make boost in first, barely in second, and second would probably rev out to around 130mph since my 8k limiter in my s14 makes 78mph for 2nd. also, it would be really tough to get that heavy turbine going under throttle spurts of under a second or two, making everything really more difficult than it should be. plus, it would break every 12 runs and cost an ass load..... i suggest someone builds it.

oh, and lastly a gt35r would choke out by 9500-10k i would think. i really doubt it would do anything around 11k, you would need a seriously big turbo. you will NEVER have a 5500rpm powerband in an sr20, ever, unless you use NOS.

MATT_BACK_VASS
08-22-2007, 02:19 AM
you will NEVER have a 5500rpm powerband in an sr20, ever, unless you use NOS.

oh yes you will.

situation 1:

stock SR20VE.

situation 2:

RNN14 Pulsar GTi-R with antilag

situation 3: my old setup:
http://ncogni.to/gallery/d/3005-1/quicksilverdyno6psi.jpg

full boost @ 3000, redline @ whenever you feel like stopping


situation 4: 65 shot of nitrous on top of an .82 a/r gtir with antilag just for the hell of it

oh and if people know what they are doing, motors last. just ask ross petty, he's on my engine that's over 2 years old of non stop drift events that enjuku couldn't blow up, so they sold it to him. serial # 066576W .

MATT_BACK_VASS
08-22-2007, 02:21 AM
you will NEVER have a 5500rpm powerband in an sr20, ever, unless you use NOS.

oh yes you will.

situation 1:

stock SR20VE.

situation 2:

RNN14 Pulsar GTi-R with antilag

situation 3: my old setup:
http://ncogni.to/gallery/d/3005-1/quicksilverdyno6psi.jpg

full boost @ 3000, redline @ whenever you feel like stopping


situation 4: 65 shot of nitrous on top of an .82 a/r gtir with antilag just for the hell of it

oh and if people know what they are doing, motors last. just ask ross petty, he's on my engine that's over 2 years old of non stop drift events that enjuku couldn't blow up, so they sold it to him. serial # 066576W .

oh and one last thing; throw in a 4.9 final for good measure with that setup, and it'd be pretty neato whamo blamo awesome.

Full_Race_Geoff
08-22-2007, 11:41 AM
thanks for the post, glad to hear the event went so well. whenever you guys are ready for more power let me know, i have plenty of ideas

Full_Race_Geoff
08-22-2007, 11:43 AM
Is the Turbo you have - GT3071, twin scroll ? I have the GT3071R 86ar WG..... Can i get a twin scroll housing for it ?

the twinscroll 30R we use is a T3 housing and has a 60mm turbine wheel. The 3071 you have uses a t25 housing, so the 60mm turbine wont fit in the t25, instead you have a 56.5mm turbine wheel which is too small for the T3 housing

sorry for the bad news but you cant convert your 56.5mm turbine to twinscroll

Vteckidd
08-22-2007, 01:37 PM
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/Vteckidd/4thgearspool.jpg


4th Gear Spool test vs 3rd Gear

master chief
08-22-2007, 04:10 PM
Thanks for the replay, but its not really that bad news... The GT3071R WG, is not a bad turbo, i just would preffer it a bit less lag.

SoSideways
08-22-2007, 04:53 PM
You're talking like 350-500 rpm more lag than a GT2871R .64 A/R at achieving full boost.

GT2871R .64 A/R = around 4000rpm for full boost of around 18-20psi.

GT3071R WG = 4250-4500rpm for full bost.

You gotta think though, will the GT2871R with the .64 A/R provide you with over 300 ft-lbs of TQ by 4250-4500rpm?

janders211
08-22-2007, 05:21 PM
tq differences
http://i15.tinypic.com/4mtqbzp.jpg

codyace
08-22-2007, 05:22 PM
You're talking like 350-500 rpm more lag than a GT2871R .64 A/R at achieving full boost.

GT2871R .64 A/R = around 4000rpm for full boost of around 18-20psi.

GT3071R WG = 4250-4500rpm for full bost.

You gotta think though, will the GT2871R with the .64 A/R provide you with over 300 ft-lbs of TQ by 4250-4500rpm?

Yep :D 2871r .64, OEM Manifold, S3 cams. JWT ECU.

http://www.e-rak.com/cody/albums/Dynos/uncorrected.jpg

Now that 4th pull from the Batlground guys looks awesome...hmmmmmm no wanna spend more money....rip it out to 85 for us once :D

SoSideways
08-22-2007, 06:11 PM
^ Your setup does not count, because not a whole lot of people have the extrude honed and Swain coating on their parts.

Yes, it's achievable, but not a whole lot of people have been able to replicate your results.

srs14
08-24-2007, 02:33 AM
hehe i just saw the car in the intro of nopi tunervision. props!!!

codyace
08-25-2007, 02:42 AM
^ Your setup does not count, because not a whole lot of people have the extrude honed and Swain coating on their parts.

Yes, it's achievable, but not a whole lot of people have been able to replicate your results.

Because most get cheap manifolds and lame cams :)

I figured the Extrude and Swain was less than an Expreme (well when I did it, Tomei Expreme wasn't even heard of), and would be dead on reliable. Why everyone had to go out and get MR or MR style bottom mounts, run HKS step II's was beyond me, esepcially when they knew what my car had :D


And I saw these cars on TV as well...goodish!

MATT_BACK_VASS
08-25-2007, 08:37 AM
ive seen dynos read high and low by as much as 50hp. codys car seems like nothing special to me.

codyace
08-25-2007, 10:21 AM
ive seen dynos read high and low by as much as 50hp. codys car seems like nothing special to me.

It's really not, but boy is it fun :D Made the same HP over all 3 runs, so it's at least not like a Mustang dyno reading bonkers at times.

Need comparison for accuracy: It's a state DMV dyno

On the same day we dynoed a VVL NX: Made 180 whp.
On the same day we dynoed a Full Bolt on/PUlley/TUne 03 Cobra: Made 440 something N/A, 550 something on spray
And on the same day we dynoed my moms 05 GT Mustang (auto): Made 250 whp.

I think it's pretty darn close to where it should be...but in grand scheme of things, I could care less if it made 350 whp, it's lightning fast on track, and needs a 500 hp 03/04 Cobra or LS1 car car to even play with me on the highway (gutted Notches don't apply)

Man, but I'm still not done I need to ask Santa Claus for some R compounds, a Roll Bar and JWT C1 cams :D

steve shadows
08-25-2007, 06:29 PM
go do it on a dynodynamics cody.

its like instant life reality check lol

codyace
08-25-2007, 07:11 PM
See this brings up debate on dyno type...is the Dynamics becomming the new 'absolute' we'll say in terms of what power it makes, or do the DynaPacks still retain the title?

I'd love to get my car down to Evans Tuning (for fun) just to see what it makes on a Dynapack

KB240SR
08-26-2007, 05:45 PM
Whats it really matter what the numbers read? The car makes the same power regardless what number the dyno spits out. Just go to the track and see what trap speed you run. 400whp S13 should run around 120mph with traction.

KB240SR
08-26-2007, 05:47 PM
Talking about dynos a little, i dynoed on a Dynapack and Dynojet and both read around 350-354whp for 3 runs on each dyno.

steve shadows
08-26-2007, 06:59 PM
dynodynamics

not dyna pack

ive never seen a dynodynamics read the same or higher than a dynojet.

+ you take the wieght of the wheels out of the equation with a dyna pack which helps even the playing field at lower outputs.

slowwrx
10-14-2007, 02:00 PM
Just for refrence Batlgrounds dynojet reads 12%lower than SOGs dynopak.

steve shadows
10-14-2007, 04:47 PM
^ could be baro correction

SamuraiSam
10-14-2007, 11:03 PM
Dyno dynamics is around 12-15% lower then a Dynojet in my experiance. when I tuned my friends GT-R with stock motor, gt2530's, Expreme manifolds, it did 356whp at 1.1 bar DD. Should be around 400hp on a Dynojet, so the correction factor makes sense.

Paul2x
11-13-2007, 12:22 PM
I think I found my next turbo set-up :D

steve shadows
11-13-2007, 01:25 PM
what the hell have I been saying paul ^

shhheeesh

let me tuen the bish too.

im doing 390 on the dd with my 30r

riggs
11-14-2007, 12:52 AM
Saw the cars at SEMA show. Congrats Dan and the rest of the team at Batlground!