PDA

View Full Version : sr firing on one cylinder



silver88si
04-08-2002, 08:10 PM
We just finished an sr swap and its firing on one cylinder. Just the front #4 cylinder

We have power in each coil pack and continuity to the igniter chip. The plugs are new and its getting fuel. We switched each coil pack to the one working cylinder and no change.

What could be the problem.
And does anyone have the link to the blacktop s13 sr fsm

mdsdm
04-08-2002, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by silver88si:
We just finished an sr swap and its firing on one cylinder. Just the front #4 cylinder<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]That might be your problem. The cylinder in front is #1.



And does anyone have the link to the blacktop s13 sr fsm<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]Don't think an english one exists. Sorry.

silver88si
04-08-2002, 08:28 PM
dunno where #4 came from
it is the front #1.

mike2016
04-08-2002, 10:05 PM
pull the coil packs out and test each of them make sure they all have sparks while cranking. also check your MAFS and make sure the MAFS is in working order, if you have Z32 MAFS conversion, check your wiring.

AZ_Dave
04-08-2002, 10:11 PM
What about the spark plug gap? Did you try moving the plugs around?

Dave

**DONOTDELETE**
04-08-2002, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by silver88si:
We just finished an sr swap and its firing on one cylinder. Just the front #4 cylinder
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]That must sound sweet http://www.freshalloy.com/ just kiddin

KenFuji
04-08-2002, 10:21 PM
does the engine run at all? sounds like the timing is way way off. your getting spark on all 4 right??

ken

projectsilvia
04-08-2002, 10:22 PM
usually people designate the cylinders by. 1, first injector to get fuel, 2, second injector, 3.... etc, 4 last injector to get fuel. so in that term, the last injector, which is the cylinder closest to the front of the engine is in fact, number 4 cylinder.

i cannot confirm, but, i have heard that the blacktop s13 motors (E5 ecu out of 97-98 rps13 motors) have different wiring colors, but not sure on the layout of the ecu/wiring, it may be getting no fuel in those other 3 cylinders... just a thought, i may be wrong.

SRFiveTen
04-09-2002, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by silver88si:
We just finished an sr swap and its firing on one cylinder. Just the front #4 cylinder

We have power in each coil pack and continuity to the igniter chip. The plugs are new and its getting fuel. We switched each coil pack to the one working cylinder and no change.

What could be the problem.
And does anyone have the link to the blacktop s13 sr fsm<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]fyi, direct ignition system for s14 sr20det is same for s13 sr20det; coil packs are the same, igniter chips are the same.

is your ignition coil pack sub-harness grounded?
is your c.a.s. positioned correctly?
do you have a check engine light hooked up? and do you get any codes after you crank your motor?

it wouldn't hurt to score an english copy of fsm for s14 sr20det equipped 200sx.

Hugh
04-09-2002, 03:35 AM
Igniter chip bad?

240sxTurbo
04-09-2002, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by 1bad180sx:
Igniter chip bad?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]Unlikely cause he gets spark on one, but not the others.

My guess is first test each coil pack and see if you getting spark at the end of each plug, pull it out, ground the plug to the car, turn it over, no spark, move to the next. To verify you don't have 3 bad plugs, use the known working unit, and take any plug from a coil pack that doesn't work and do the same test on the good one. If they all spark, then you have either 3 bad coil packs, or the wiring could be cut and grounding in the harness somewhere to each of those. Also swap the known good coilpack around, if you get get spark on the others you know then you know the wiring is good and the coil pak is then bad.

Its simple logic, you have to have air, fuel, fire and compression of the air to get combustion. Make sure you have fire on all four cylinders at the plug, next make sure you are getting fuel in all four cylinders, pull the rail if need be and crank it over, you maybe have injector wiring messed up or stuck injectors(is the car flooding), air is the easy one, there really isn't a great way to test for air. If everything else checks out, and your timing looks to be on, do a compression check, maybe those 3 cylinders are to screwed and you are getting fuel, air and spark, but it won't ignite cause of compression or lack of I mean

[ 04-09-2002, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: 240sxTurbo ]

silver88si
04-09-2002, 07:09 AM
we tested each coil pack in the known working cylinder. and the ignitor chip seems to work fine.

The plugs are ok.
When we pulled them first and third from the front of the motor were fuel fouled and two and four were totally clean like they werent even firing.

If the wiring was bad would each coil pack and each set of wires for the coil pack have power.

Im gonna check for the grounding of the sub harness. It seems like we are gettting spark and fuel just not at the right times.

With the cas whats the correct way to measure where its supposed to set at.

240sxTurbo
04-09-2002, 07:56 AM
you need a FSM at this point to know the values, but you need to test the power coming to each coil pak when its in the right place. Almost sounds like a ground to me since two looked good and two looked bad, maybe the two bad ones aren't grounded properly. Compare values from the know good one to the two suspected bad one. If they appear different then that even narrows it more.

I suggest the FSM for sure but at least you are now on the right track

Another thing to note is if you have two cylinders that look good an two that are bad its unliklely related to CAS cause the effect would be equal across all 4 I tend to think

[ 04-09-2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: 240sxTurbo ]

stock4door
04-09-2002, 08:08 AM
Just a thought, and something I have seen happen before....
It sounds like you have an ecu for a non-turbo engine. Are you sure that cylinders #2, 3, and 4 are sparking? The ecu pin number for coil pack #1 on a dfi (sr20det) ecu, and the pin number for the ignition/coil firing source on a non turbo nissan computer (i.e. sr20de, ka24de, etc.) are the same pin. So a non turbo computer will make a dfi efi system attempt to fire on just the first cylinder. Imported computers are a #1 source for cover swapping and internal swapping, sadly enough.

240sxTurbo
04-09-2002, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by stock4door:
Just a thought, and something I have seen happen before....
It sounds like you have an ecu for a non-turbo engine. Are you sure that cylinders #2, 3, and 4 are sparking? The ecu pin number for coil pack #1 on a dfi (sr20det) ecu, and the pin number for the ignition/coil firing source on a non turbo nissan computer (i.e. sr20de, ka24de, etc.) are the same pin. So a non turbo computer will make a dfi efi system attempt to fire on just the first cylinder. Imported computers are a #1 source for cover swapping and internal swapping, sadly enough.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]Good info, didn't know this. It might be the fact if you indeed are unable to get any coil packs to spark in 2,3,4. I think he said he had two cylinders that looks ok so that might be the kicker...but all the same thats good info to have.

04-09-2002, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by projectsilvia:
usually people designate the cylinders by. 1, first injector to get fuel, 2, second injector, 3.... etc, 4 last injector to get fuel. so in that term, the last injector, which is the cylinder closest to the front of the engine is in fact, number 4 cylinder.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]Um, no..."usually" people designate the cylinders according to their position, and what the FSM states. Cyl. #1 is the front, Cyl. #4 is the back, and #2 and #3 are in between...I'm sure you can figure out which order they go in http://www.freshalloy.com/

Asad

Mark slide squad
04-09-2002, 09:22 AM
Also sounds to me like its the ECU. I had the exact same problem when I did my SR swap back in 1998. The problem was they gave me a pulsar GTi-R SR20DET ECU, which does not use direct fire, but uses conventional distributor. The pin out diagram is different too. Only one of my 4 cylinders would fire. I checked the ECU code, and found out it was the wrong one, got an ECU for a RWD red top SR and bam, started right up. What is the code number on the sticker of your ECU?

SRFiveTen
04-10-2002, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by silver88si:
we tested each coil pack in the known working cylinder. and the ignitor chip seems to work fine.

The plugs are ok.
When we pulled them first and third from the front of the motor were fuel fouled and two and four were totally clean like they werent even firing.

If the wiring was bad would each coil pack and each set of wires for the coil pack have power.

Im gonna check for the grounding of the sub harness. It seems like we are gettting spark and fuel just not at the right times.

With the cas whats the correct way to measure where its supposed to set at.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]c.a.s. positioning according to jdm s14 fsm (http://members.aol.com/srfiveten/images/CAS2.jpg)

early s13 sr20det c.a.s., has alignment dots reversed (http://members.aol.com/srfiveten/images/CAS1.jpg)

timing chain alignment, per jdm s14 fsm (http://members.aol.com/srfiveten/images/srtimingchain.jpg) (sorry, i used a cheaper camera)

c.a.s. insertion is tricky, each time i pull the c.a.s. out, it messes my timing up.

make sure you line up the markings on the c.a.s. and insert while you have your #1 (front most slug) at top dead center.
if you are in no hurry, remove your cam cover and plugs, turn your crank 'till the chain links line up like in the third pic.

if the motor can be fired up, let it get warmed up before you set your timing.
there should be several posts on how to set base timing, run a search.

a make-shift check engine light will be the key to understanding much of your problems, i think.
when i recently rewired my ride, i had a light hooked up. not pretty, but it helped me get 55, now if i could find some time to buy some hose clamps to fix my vacuum leaks....

[ 04-10-2002, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: SRFiveTen ]

KenFuji
04-10-2002, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Mark slide squad:
What is the code number on the sticker of your ECU?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]good point mark.

if it is none of these below then you have the wrong ecu.

E5 is a 180sx black top 94-96
62 is a Silvia s13 with 5 speed
63 is a Silvia S13 with automatic
J4 is a 97-98 type X 180sx

ken

silver88si
04-10-2002, 06:46 PM
we have an e5 ecu

we checked the voltage at each of the coil packs and it was exatly the same across the cylinders.

The sr ecu mode 3 is diagnostic right.

Im gonna check the cas tommorrow hopefully

Hugh
04-10-2002, 06:56 PM
Yup E5 is correct. You can also run on a 62 or 63, just in case you have a friend to try swapping computers with or you have to buy a new one. My best friend is running his black top on a 62 tuned computer and it works GREAT.

mdsdm
04-10-2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by asad137:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]Originally posted by projectsilvia:
usually people designate the cylinders by. 1, first injector to get fuel, 2, second injector, 3.... etc, 4 last injector to get fuel. so in that term, the last injector, which is the cylinder closest to the front of the engine is in fact, number 4 cylinder.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]Um, no..."usually" people designate the cylinders according to their position, and what the FSM states. Cyl. #1 is the front, Cyl. #4 is the back, and #2 and #3 are in between...I'm sure you can figure out which order they go in http://www.freshalloy.com/

Asad</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]I think projectsilvia was thinking of air flow in V8s. Some of them have weird cylinder numbering orders (lower numbers in rear on only one bank) based on intake manifold runner length... I think, but I've never heard of an inline engine not ordered 1 in front.

stock4door
04-11-2002, 12:34 AM
Voltage at the coil packs won't tell you if the coil packs are firing. The only way to find out for sure is by pulling the coil packs out and see if there is spark while cranking.


Originally posted by silver88si:
we have an e5 ecu

we checked the voltage at each of the coil packs and it was exatly the same across the cylinders.

The sr ecu mode 3 is diagnostic right.

Im gonna check the cas tommorrow hopefully<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]