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View Full Version : honda's 'z-killer' concept



**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2000, 04:30 PM
uh oh! looks like the z-car will have some serious competition coming up if Honda decides to make this car, the S2000 coupe(the yellow one). The Z-car and the Honda S2000 coupe will defenetly be rivals. i just hope the Z-car will be better! http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif (the red car is the S2000 sports sedan aimed at taking down the Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS and maybe the upcoming next-generation altima?)
http://www.s2000fans.com/images/coupe.jpg

TitaniusMaximus
11-20-2000, 04:34 PM
A Nissan with a 300hp NA V6 sports car against a Honda with 240hp NA I4 sports car??? Uumm... only Honda Lemmings (mainly Rice Boys, even most of them would buy a Nissan) would buy the Honda...

TitaniusMaximus
11-20-2000, 04:36 PM
Oh Yes... Starting Price of the Z will be 26-28k and the S2000 is already 31k...

thearabian
11-20-2000, 08:04 PM
hm, how could they make a sedan out of a roadster!?!

Meanwhile! what car exacly is the Z going up against?
cant be S2000, Miata, Mr2, SLK, Z3, M roadster, C70 convertible... those are are convertibles
cant be Intergra, Audi TT, Celica GTS, Acura CL... all FWD
cant be Corvette, Boxster, M coupe... too expensive
other cars such as Eclipse and even Corvette and Boxster are ALSO available in convertible format...
that leaves the mercury cougar...

POINT BEING: in this day and age of convertibles and roadsters, does the Z have a place?

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2000, 09:35 PM
cougars are fwd too.

it'll be up against mustangs, camaros, 3series, rxwhatever, and up that's about it. if you restrict it to rwd hardtops.

but you're right, it's an odd market niche right now, since the old competitors (supra and rx7, plus 3000gt) aren't here anymore.

TitaniusMaximus
11-21-2000, 01:07 AM
When the original 240Z came out it didn't have a competitor either... could history repeat itself again???

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2000, 01:20 AM
It was announced last week in the auto media that Nissan will have a Convertible ready at the same time as the new coupe when it comes in April 2002 as the 2003 Z. It was said that it will be available no more than up 7 weeks after the coupe ships. Autoweek is the source quoted both at their website and on their Speedvision broadcast last week.

The TT Coupe Quattro is...well...uh, Quatto. Their all wheel 225HP vs their FWD 180HP. Not that it means anything to us.

So as far as the afore mentioned convertibles go...their drivers will mostly feel they are (or will be)competing against the new Z Convertible when it shows up even if they aren't the target.

What I think the new Z will really be dealing with is... the remaining class of owners of 3rd Gen RX-7's, remaining 3000GT's and SupraTT's. I suspect that BPU+ SupraTT's will be hunting new Z's specifically and so that competition should be fierce in some spots. Of course WE will be hard pressed as everyone else to measure performance of the new Z against no other car than our beloved ZTT.

That only leaves the higher-priced-under-powered-compared-to-the-new-Z category (should see some very green with envy looks! Hehe-Porshe Boxster comes to mind here. Nice car but high priced) and the lower price category that cannot compare in performance (hondas, toyos, etc).

Mazda of course is still deciding on production for the 4th gen RX7 called the RX7 Evolv. It supposed to generate 276HP @9000 rpm/166 lb-ft of torque @8000 rpm as quoted from their website. Here is another site for more info: http://www.rx-7.org/fourth.htm

Then there are also the rumors of the 4000GT and the return of the Supra. Rumor or not, certainly after the Z returns these guys will be feeling the pressure to come back also. I'm sure their fan base will be beating their doors down since their competition is now brand new again.

It seems likely that the Skyline GT-R may make it here since Nissan has said that the Z will not be the flagship sports car. I think after the Z arrives, the flood gates will open and Nissan will reveal what they really have been planning. We could have the Silva hunting in the small coupe under 300HP territory and dominate and then the R35 GTR with 450HP hunting and spanking Porsche's. The Z will fit quite nicely in the middle and put all competitors, left-overs and new comers alike on notice: The bar has been raised! Ah...the possibilities! http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thearabian:
hm, how could they make a sedan out of a roadster!?!

Meanwhile! what car exacly is the Z going up against?
cant be S2000, Miata, Mr2, SLK, Z3, M roadster, C70 convertible... those are are convertibles
cant be Intergra, Audi TT, Celica GTS, Acura CL... all FWD
cant be Corvette, Boxster, M coupe... too expensive
other cars such as Eclipse and even Corvette and Boxster are ALSO available in convertible format...
that leaves the mercury cougar...

POINT BEING: in this day and age of convertibles and roadsters, does the Z have a place?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by Zzealous (edited 11-21-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2000, 08:28 AM
bringing over a new z, silvia, and gtr over a period of less than five years would be an extremely odd thing for a car maker to do. particularly when you look at the prices involved.

we'll get the z. that's what matters. the most profitable market (ie, middle aged guys who remember their youth) will go for a z - they might well have owned one before. will they go for a silvia? what's that? a gtr? huh?

for now, the z.

(and for the record, i'll be waiting to watch a v8z torch a new 350z http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif)

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2000, 10:31 AM
whoa! that is one cool looking honda! i'd like to see a real working model tho.

thearabian
11-21-2000, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by idle573:
whoa! that is one cool looking honda! i'd like to see a real working model tho. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the sedan actually looks like an IS300, and the coupe looks almost exacly like a BMW M Coupe...

**DONOTDELETE**
11-21-2000, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Tae:
When the original 240Z came out it didn't have a competitor either... could history repeat itself again???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, this could be a very historical point. The first japanese sports car of the new millenium http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif. But for real, I believe that when this car comes out and it starts selling like hotcakes then toyota, mitsu, and mazda are gonna be running as fast as they can to that drawing board and seeing what they can get ready. I am also already almost dead positive that the rx-7 is coming back because of the fact that someone at bose has been assigned the job of making the stereo for it along with the one for the z. I don't know any dates but if they are making the stereo its gotta be coming out sometime soon.

I think the competition for the Z is gonna be a large range of cars. So what if it is a convertible, people with s2000, boxster, mr2, slk, z3, all of them are still somewhat fast and i really don't car what kind of style a car is if it has the right specs than it is a worthy opponent. On the drag scene one of the fastest diamondstar cars is actually an older toyota corolla with a mitsu engine dropped in it but people still see it as a worthy diamondstar opponent. All of the high priced "sports" cars are gonna be competition because they are full of themselves and we are going to get a lot of joy from smacking the hell out of em. Any car of good performance will be a competitor no matter what company and model.

Side note: I think those hondas look pretty decent, especially being hondas. But unless they plan on dropping the price MAJORLY on the s2000 then these cars are gonna be starting to get up in the price of bmw and such and honda just doesn't have the quality/reputation for those kind of prices. Besides, I would go buy a new Z, a Z32, or a Z31 before i would ever go and get a honda.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-26-2000, 11:01 AM
you know, I hope there is a whole bunch of hype around the z car when it's going to be released. But I hope sooooooo much that the dealers dont mark up the price. I remember, I went to a honda dealer right after the S2000 was released and the dealer put a $6,500 mark up on it because everyone wanted one and there was'nt enough for everyone. I hope Nissan can keep production up with the demand if the z-car gets hyped as much as the S2000 which it probably will.

Mo
11-27-2000, 11:03 PM
I donít think S2000 could even come close to what the new Z will be. One thing you have to realize that S2000 is limited production car that means most of the owners are car collectors. So they would not go out and race you.

I donít remember where I read this but it said that Honda sold a lot more S2000 then they had expected so they are in process making more S2000 with hard top. I donít know when they are supposed to start selling. Also, that they might even make S1500 which is going to be something like the S2000 but with less power and smaller in size.

Going back to Nissan, if they decided to bring both Slivia and Skyline GT-R it would be really confusing to buy which car. Also, do you think the American market has a room for 4 sport cars especially now a day all people want is SUV? I like the way Nissan put them, they covered all the area.

Sentra SE-R around 200hp
Silvia around 250hp
Z around 350hp
Skyline GT-R around 450hp

**DONOTDELETE**
11-29-2000, 03:47 PM
The one on the right looks like a toyota altezza, the one on the left looks like a s-2000 coupe!

**DONOTDELETE**
11-29-2000, 03:48 PM
Ok I'm retarted, I should have read it before I posted!

**DONOTDELETE**
12-29-2000, 08:49 PM
The one on the right is already in Production here in Japan as the Accord Euro R. It has about 225 HP and a 6 speed Manual. The car on the left is in fact, not an S2000. It is a artist's concept of the new Honda(Acura) NSX. Just pulled that info out of the latest car mags here in Japan. That means that it will me WAY out of the Z's price range!

[This message has been edited by OppamaP11owner (edited 12-29-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
01-01-2001, 01:59 PM
The competition for the new Z will be anything in it's price performance range +- $10,000. Think that is too broad ? We have to realize that we are the car fanatics, we are the ones who care which wheels are driven and how much horsepower is made from how many cylinders and valves. Joe and Jane Q. Public just want what strikes them as meeting their needs and feeling good when they test drive it. I'll bet you half of the driving public doesn't even know which wheels are driven in their daily drivers. A lot of the SUV crowd may say 4WD, but ask them which wheels are driven when it's not in 4WD - 98% of the time. I'll agree 300hp in a RWD platform at $28,000 can't be beat, show me a good looking body that's for real and I'll drive over and place my deposit today. After the few tens of thousands of us who care about specs and care about the heritage of the Z buy ours, specs alone are not going to make it succeed financially. The 300 was last sold in the States in 96 because the numbers it was selling in didn't justify the money that would have to be spent to make the doors meet 97's side impact standards, and I will be suprised if the new Z will outperform the 95 TT stock for stock. They car will have to have looks, performance quality and value to succeed. It will be competing with everything from Boxters to the new Acura RS-X (Integra replacement) in the real word, think an S2000 or theIntegra Type R can't take you for a ride, you've never been in one. At the current and projected price points, yeah, I'm in for the Z, but I care about everything we have been talking about.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-01-2001, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spdstrZ:
We have to realize that we are the car fanatics, we are the ones who care which wheels are driven and how much horsepower is made from how many cylinders and valves. Joe and Jane Q. Public just want what strikes them as meeting their needs and feeling good when they test drive it. I'll bet you half of the driving public doesn't even know which wheels are driven in their daily drivers. A lot of the SUV crowd may say 4WD, but ask them which wheels are driven when it's not in 4WD - 98% of the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, very true. The biggest danger for the new Z is not competition from other manufacturers....rather its the ignorant public. Poseur tough guys (SUV http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif), the minivan crowd and the common, ignorant joe will do more to harm the sales of the Z (in a worst case scenario) than the s2000 or ponycars or whatever.

Unfortunately, most of the general public look at an automobile just as a utility to get them from point A to B with minimum fuss. If they can look "tough" while doing it in a SUv, so much the better http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/rolleyes.gif . These dark, gloomy times are bereft of the intelligent affordable sports-car crowd.

SHIFT_6speeds
01-01-2001, 09:10 PM
Hopefully these SUV people will soon tire of seeing themselves at every corner (I hope) and opt for something new, like a new Z. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif Maybe Nissan's timing on bringing the Z back into the U.S. is near perfect! We will have to wait and see. Besides, isn't the Z the biggest selling sports car name in history? So the Z's past should help it's future...

**DONOTDELETE**
01-02-2001, 07:31 AM
I think the Z heritage will not only help sell the Z..but will increase sales for ALL Nissan products.The Z has always been an image car for Nissan,and if this car lives up to at least two thirds of the rumors ive been hearing..we are all in for a treat (unless you own stock in Honda or Toyota)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SentraSE-Rman:
Hopefully these SUV people will soon tire of seeing themselves at every corner (I hope) and opt for something new, like a new Z. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif Maybe Nissan's timing on bringing the Z back into the U.S. is near perfect! We will have to wait and see. Besides, isn't the Z the biggest selling sports car name in history? So the Z's past should help it's future... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
01-03-2001, 05:12 PM
That sketch of the new Z is by far the best i've ever seen...

ack... you think a torqueless honda will compete with the new Z? please... the V6 will give the Z torque and its gonna be light... the power to weight ratio could put it within striking distance of the C5

and nissan will have a turbo option read; i just know it; later on when Toyota copies them like they always do...

the S2000 was called a Vette-killer when it first debuted... PLEASE.... the car barely gets low 14s... thats a vette made 10 years ago... blech...