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thearabian
07-19-2000, 03:33 PM
Other than Nissan, state which car company you like most in all its aspects.

I myself Love Audi, they have distinguished themselves over the past few years, their design, performance and price are top notch!
Until (IF) the QE comes out, the A6 2.7t is my dream sedan.

2HD
07-19-2000, 05:04 PM
Nissan is what I stand by most of all. I really can think of a better brand.

But I guess I got a certain attraction for Dodge/Chrysler cars their unique design reaches threw out each model ever since they introduced the Viper in 1990 things just got better in styling.

But the Intrepid drives like a boat, and theres no feeling at all!


[This message has been edited by 2HD (edited 07-19-2000).]

ChuckH
07-19-2000, 06:35 PM
I'm an Audi lover too, but have been for quite some time. I think one of the main reasons is that they have a good variety of cars that fit many needs and wants. I can't say that Audi offers a car I don't like in some way or another. Another thing is that Audi has an assortment of turbocharged cars which means lots of aftermarket fun for those interested.

Nissan has also come a long way in the past couple years. Really though, Nissan needs a better contender in the mid-size Sedan market, as the Altima falls short. But, things are changing and the new Sentra is quite a nice little car. Of course, the Xterra is what put Nissan back on the map.

With both Nissan and Audi, it's unfortunate that the best cars don't make it to the US. I'm waiting! http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

Charles

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thearabian:
Other than Nissan, state which car company you like most in all its aspects.

I myself Love Audi, they have distinguished themselves over the past few years, their design, performance and price are top notch!
Until (IF) the QE comes out, the A6 2.7t is my dream sedan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mcervantes
07-19-2000, 06:57 PM
I'd have to agree, my other fav is Audi. They're just all-around pretty damn good. Their attention to interior detail is something I hope Infiniti can learn from.

But I question Audi's future. V.A.G.'s plan to move the Volkswagen brand upscale may step on Audi's toes somewhat....

JonCarson
07-19-2000, 07:20 PM
Is there some strange correlation between Nissan and Audi going on here?

I too, am an Audi fan. All their "S" cars kick ass. S4 is a beauty, and RS4 is a beast.

I also like BWM. M3 is one of my all time favorites, especially the 2nd generation. Current 750il is my dream VIP saloon. X5 is baddest SUV, er...SAV on the road today.

Of course I can't neglect Porsche. The Brand new 911 Turbo....Oh my god!
My favorite classic car is the '53-'58 Porsche 550.

[This message has been edited by carsonjon (edited 07-19-2000).]

thearabian
07-19-2000, 09:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carsonjon:
Is there some strange correlation between Nissan and Audi going on here?

I too, am an Audi fan. All their "S" cars kick ass. S4 is a beauty, and RS4 is a beast.

I also like BWM. M3 is one of my all time favorites, especially the 2nd generation. Current 750il is my dream VIP saloon. X5 is baddest SUV, er...SAV on the road today.

Of course I can't neglect Porsche. The Brand new 911 Turbo....Oh my god!
My favorite classic car is the '53-'58 Porsche 550.

[This message has been edited by carsonjon (edited 07-19-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, if it weren't for Renault, i would say that Nissan and Audi would make a great alliance, both performance-oriented, and as you can see most people in this forum had a feeling inside them about this realization!

I must say though, VW, Audi's parent is a company i do not like too much, overpriced, overhyped... I do love Porsche, however
Go figure, i dont like the parent, but i love the children!

2HD
07-20-2000, 06:53 AM
Audi really is a nice luxury brand I think they kind of represent what modern Luxury is like. There really isn't anyone car in their line that looks dated or offensive (besides the A8) But all of their interiors especially the TT are top notch. I like the way they make them look like a miniture home stereo system. Does anyone no which kind of sound systems they use?

Slack00
07-20-2000, 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2HD:
But the Intrepid drives like a boat, and theres no feeling at all!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but have you checked out the new R/T trim level for the Intrepid? It has the performance of a Chrysler 300M for thousands less the price (and better looks, IMO)! They added the usual equipment: a significant engine upgrade, stiffer handling, exhaust tweaks, white face guages, and special badging. Its kind of like a Nissan SE trim level (but in case of the boat-like intrepid, much more effective).

Slack00
07-20-2000, 08:01 AM
Man, my favorite car company, other than Nissan? Geez....man, how can you choose one...there are so many myriad personalities of these companies..I'll just post my impressions of some notable ones..

Okay, since we've started on Audi, I feel like I must play Devil's advocate. I must say I LOVE the Allroad. The S4 is pretty darn swank as well. The new cars are great, no doubt, but they just don't exactly do it for me, styling wise. Audi has had a troubled history in the past that Ferdinand Peich is just now cleaning up. Their resale value is awful. Go to any dealer auction and when an Audi comes on the block (even the newer ones) NOone bids....you can hear crickets chirp. I think dealers may have had bad experiences with them or something. Some of their older models are pretty high-maintenance, as well. But, on a plus side, their interiors are wonderful and vehicle dynamics are pretty impressive, from what I hear.

On to other German marques...

I have a spot in my heart for Volkswagens...Ferdinand Piech has done a wonderful job with this company. Like Audi, their most recent efforts of the latter half of the nineties has resulted in cars of high build quality and competence. My friend has a '99 Golf GTI VR6 and I must say it impressed me more than my other friend's Honda Civic Si (of course, it COSTS more, too). Their styling is attractive and youthful, and they are a good bargain. German quality without German import prices.

Porsche is pretty amazing....Its funny, but the rear-engine layout was always thought to be a flaw of the 911...boy did Porcshe prove them wrong. I like the daily-driveability of Porsche, the performance (duh!), and the status. Another German wunderkar.

Mercedes Benz......these "old money" clients want a good car bar none. While not always the best performing, or flashiest, or most effiecient, MB has built up a reputation for one thing....building a solid vehicle. You can't find a car with better NVH characteristics....MB owners want exclusive, quiet, reliable transportation. MB provides all three with aplomb.

BMW...another German stalwart...I admire their traditional approach to cars...they have really created a heritage out of their various models. Unlike most companies, BMW is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, in their approach to automobile design. This has made BMW recognizable and respected world wide. I've always loved this conservativeness, but sometimes, like in the case of the M3 (although I love it)... if you are going to make a sedan perform like a sports car, why not just make a sports car instead? In other words, their understated approach to styling strays somewhat from my own "Form following Function" ethos.

Do you see a pattern with German engineering? The best quality, but also the most conservative and understated. Not real adventuresome in their styling (its always predictable) but always top-notch performers. This has always been the case, since the dawn of the German country itself. Even in WWII...the Germans had superior equipment, in every way...the only way the Allies won was by sheer weight of numbers due, in no small part, to the activation of the gargantuan American assembly line. Even today, the M1 Abrams is a tank that is entirely made in America....except for the gunbarrel (the most important part!) which is machined and imported from guess where? And in the Mideval ages, who made the best suit of armor? And in the 1800's, where did the mercenaries to fear (and their excellent rifles) hail from? Germany. Germany. GERMANY. As a history buff, what I have always wanted to know is, what IS IT about this culture that breeds this excellent engineering? I mean, the law of averages would state that there should be approximately the same talent pool in any other culture....and that this title of "best engineering" should switch hands every so often...so why is always NOT the case?


[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 07-20-2000).]

Slack00
07-20-2000, 08:32 AM
My favorite car company, however, probably goes to Ferrari. These guys from Maranello have an uncompromising passion for the sports car that exudes from every Ferrari they build. Their cars are exquisite. They seem to throw all other variables (that are essential to the survival of larger car companies) out the window in their pursuit of their dream. Who cares about gas mileage? Or emissions? Or cost? These are people who build a pure sports car. With a pure engine. No turbos. No superchargers. No nitrous. Ferrari will not "cheat" to make horsepower. If cars were people, Ferrari's would be decathalon athletes. Olympic quality decathalon athletes. The best examples of physical health that mother nature produces. No drugs. No steroids. Just pure form and function. Their symbol is a prancing horse...a thoroughbred, trained to race. How appropriate. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

Some of you may remember the issue of MT (or was it R&T) in which Mario Andretti personally drove the fastest production cars on earth. All were tuner variants of the cars...A Ruf Porsche, a Hennesey Viper, a Lingenfelter Corvette, etc etc....except for one car: a stock Ferrari F-550 Maranello. When asked, after the testing was over, which car he'd take home with if he could he said "Ferrari, hands down." Unlike the other cars, which just have high top speeds, this car was engineered to be run at high top speeds. If its good enough for Mario...its good enough for me... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif Ferrari fans are just that....fanatics. I think I'm one of them. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

Italians are passionate people....the Lamborghini is the embodiment of the lustier "maybe I shouldn't have done that" psyche of cars. There is even less compromise in this car than is in the Ferrari. The Ferrari at least has comfortable ergonomics...it wants you to feel good....the Lamborghini is more about the macho "who gives a damn about visibility or how comfortable the seats are? We are gong to make our car look intimidating!" This is the Bull. A powerful beast. This car is somewhat of a cross between the horse (Ferrari) and the snake (Viper) in temperament. This car is less like the passion of love and more like the rage of jelousy. Jelousy, in this case, of its more successful arch-enemy, Ferrari. But, like its Italian arch-rival, unwilling to shoot up on forced induction or other tricks that destroy the sacredness of a naturally aspirated motor.

Italian people: passionate. Italian cars: passionate. Isn't it interesting to see how cultures correlate with their products?

[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 07-20-2000).]

Slack00
07-20-2000, 09:18 AM
On to the Japanese cars.....

I think we at FreshAlloy have a good grip on the Japanese car companies. Nissan is the underrated, sometimes unloved car company that focuses on sport and road feel. They are somewhat like the absent-minded professor: very intelligent and inventive, but sometimes socially inept or forgetful. Prices are usually good, but sometimes misplaced. They are more purist in their approach to sports cars and other vehicles. But sometimes Nissan, as a company, seems to be a lost puppy...it strays away for a little bit...then it barks loudly, and people notice...and then they pick him back up and hold them to their chest. We are hoping this next phase of Nissan is where the newfound owners of this lost puppy will keep him held to their chest all the way home rather than put him back on the ground to go his way....

Toyota has a loyal following. Two words: Toyota tough. This is a great reputation to have in the car biz. But Nissan puts its punches in the gaps often enough. As we have seen in this forum, Nissan seems more imaginative than their Toyota counterparts. Anyway, hats off to Toyota.

Honda is a marketing success story...they are also lucky bastards, who were at the right time at the right place...but I like them. Read the SCC article last month about Honda's history; its a good read. Honda's got some good stuff, no doubt about it, but the real secret to their eminence today seems to be in product marketing and placement.

Japanese engineering philosophy: "Lend us your idea....we can do it better." Their cars: tidy, efficent, nimble, cutting edge.

[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 07-20-2000).]

Slack00
07-20-2000, 01:34 PM
Now to the American car companies....

I think, other than Ferrari (and Nissan, of course), the corporation I most admire is Ford. Ford is, to me, the most successful car company in the world. Its all due to their global marketing strategy and a willingness to take risks. Ford has said "We aren't going to sell a vehicle that is not profitable," and they've stuck with it. Name me a car with a blue oval on it that doesn't sell well. You can't do it. For instance, they don't have a pure sports car (I consider the Cobra more of a Camaro Z28 SS kind of car) because its just not profitable enough.

Ford has traditionally been the boldest manufacturer (in terms of styling) of the past fifteen years or so. (Well, I dunno...Chrysler is really giving them a run for their money...but wheras Chrysler seems more fascinated by Retro, Ford seems to be truly distinctive by breaking new ground). They figured out a long time ago, based upon market research, that buying a car is like looking for a mate: no matter how great a personality or how intelligent, the initial impression is all in the appearance. If they could make a car that looks good, then it would sell. To all you SE-R owners who count your car 'a sleeper' or 'exclusive'....c'mon, face it....she's not pretty....thats why it didn't sell well, not because people back then didn't know what it was packing. So, from a marketing point of view, when it comes to innovative designs, Ford is cutting edge.

Heck even as far back as the sixties, Lee Iacocca was famous for being scoffed at by marketing execs when he took the courageous step in saying he had planned on selling 100,000 units of his new sports coupe. The 1965 Mustang, as it became to be known, sold more than 500,000 units in its first year. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif

In 1986, when cars were really shoebox looking, Ford took a HUGE risk on its new, very round Taurus. Of course, the Taurus became the number one selling car in America for many years after that.

In the middle nineties, roundness seemed to be all the rage...all the sports car were slippery looking bars of soap. Ford said
"We are going to start a trend in edgy cars" and made the Cougar and the Focus, followed by refreshenings of the Mustang. All have been major successes around the globe.

Ford seems to say "We are the styling leaders; everybody else can follow us or get steamrollered." Their styles are very fresh and innovative...their New Edge design philosophy was not meant to be appreciated right away, but grow on you over time...like meeting a new person, at first you may be standoffish or he might seem rather awkward, but after a while you may find yourself really wanting to hang around them.

Case in point: Market research in '96 for the upcoming F-150 indicated that people had a preference for the looks of the current F series truck, and any styling changes should be evolutionary. Ford said "To Hell with that" and they took a gamble on making the New F-150 more car-like and with soft roundy styling. Result: still the best selling vehicle with four tires, in the world.

But the F series story doesn't stop there....THEN they said, "We'll divide and conquer...we have the F-150 for its good manners...now split the F series styling and make a truck that is so macho and beefy it will make the Dodge Ram boys feel impotent." And the F-250/350 was born, which, as we all know (at least here in Texas) was also a runaway success. Genius. Sheer genius.

To Ford's credit, they are pretty smart business people....they have a better global marketing strategy than most...they are doing quite well in Europe and other markets, wheras other domestics have barely entered the arena. They have subsumed and revived smaller companies on the brink of extinction.

Witness Jaguar.....this car company, quite frankly, sucked when Ford bought it. Thanks to Uncle Moneybags, Jaguar's build quality has dramitically improved and its cars are lustier than ever.

Same for Volvo. And Aston Martin. Getting bought by Ford is usually GOOD news.

Counterpoint: while Ford has struck paydirt with its risky maneuvers more often than not, sometimes when Ford goes prospecting, all they find is DIRT. They have had some MISERABLE failures...The Edsel, for one, is an infamously ugly car for its day. The latest ovoid Taurus didn't fare so well. The late seventies Mustangs barely sold at all....the Bronco's sucked....sucked gas and sucked at holding together....and the same goes for many other forgotten cars that Ford would rather leave that way..... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/blush.gif

So my appreciation for Ford isn't so much based upon their offering of vehicles as their entrepreneurship and history of success. And, I'm a patriotic American. Go home team, go.

[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 07-20-2000).]

ChuckH
07-23-2000, 02:21 PM
Slack, I have to disagree about Audi resale. THough that was once the case, I think you better check out the new models; particularly the A4, S4, and TT. When I had my '89, 90Q I had about 5 people try to get me to sell the car to them long before I was even thinking of selling, and all for more than it was suppose to sell for. A friend of mine ended up buying the car and then I had people mad at me for not telling them! http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif I drive an A4 now for work, and I always have people commenting and asking about the car. A few days ago, a road construction worker looked approvingly and commented as I drove by. I also know a guy selling his A4 to buy an S4. The first day he had his car advertised in the Auto Trader, he got 12 calls.

Anyway, I don't want to start a fight http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif, but I think that not only are the new Audi's desireable, but they have had a positive impact on the desireability of the older models. FWIW, I actually prefer the older cars, as I'm a die hard 5 cylinder fan and I feel the older models had more individuality. I'm hoping to buy another one to play with soon. But, I'm in the minority.

Charles


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slack00:
Man, my favorite car company, other than Nissan? Geez....man, how can you choose one...there are so many myriad personalities of these companies..I'll just post my impressions of some notable ones..

Okay, since we've started on Audi, I feel like I must play Devil's advocate. I must say I LOVE the Allroad. The S4 is pretty darn swank as well. The new cars are great, no doubt, but they just don't exactly do it for me, styling wise. Audi has had a troubled history in the past that Ferdinand Peich is just now cleaning up. Their resale value is awful. Go to any dealer auction and when an Audi comes on the block (even the newer ones) NOone bids....you can hear crickets chirp. I think dealers may have had bad experiences with them or something. Some of their older models are pretty high-maintenance, as well. But, on a plus side, their interiors are wonderful and vehicle dynamics are pretty impressive, from what I hear.

On to other German marques...

I have a spot in my heart for Volkswagens...Ferdinand Piech has done a wonderful job with this company. Like Audi, their most recent efforts of the latter half of the nineties has resulted in cars of high build quality and competence. My friend has a '99 Golf GTI VR6 and I must say it impressed me more than my other friend's Honda Civic Si (of course, it COSTS more, too). Their styling is attractive and youthful, and they are a good bargain. German quality without German import prices.

Porsche is pretty amazing....Its funny, but the rear-engine layout was always thought to be a flaw of the 911...boy did Porcshe prove them wrong. I like the daily-driveability of Porsche, the performance (duh!), and the status. Another German wunderkar.

Mercedes Benz......these "old money" clients want a good car bar none. While not always the best performing, or flashiest, or most effiecient, MB has built up a reputation for one thing....building a solid vehicle. You can't find a car with better NVH characteristics....MB owners want exclusive, quiet, reliable transportation. MB provides all three with aplomb.

BMW...another German stalwart...I admire their traditional approach to cars...they have really created a heritage out of their various models. Unlike most companies, BMW is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, in their approach to automobile design. This has made BMW recognizable and respected world wide. I've always loved this conservativeness, but sometimes, like in the case of the M3 (although I love it)... if you are going to make a sedan perform like a sports car, why not just make a sports car instead? In other words, their understated approach to styling strays somewhat from my own "Form following Function" ethos.

Do you see a pattern with German engineering? The best quality, but also the most conservative and understated. Not real adventuresome in their styling (its always predictable) but always top-notch performers. This has always been the case, since the dawn of the German country itself. Even in WWII...the Germans had superior equipment, in every way...the only way the Allies won was by sheer weight of numbers due, in no small part, to the activation of the gargantuan American assembly line. Even today, the M1 Abrams is a tank that is entirely made in America....except for the gunbarrel (the most important part!) which is machined and imported from guess where? And in the Mideval ages, who made the best suit of armor? And in the 1800's, where did the mercenaries to fear (and their excellent rifles) hail from? Germany. Germany. GERMANY. As a history buff, what I have always wanted to know is, what IS IT about this culture that breeds this excellent engineering? I mean, the law of averages would state that there should be approximately the same talent pool in any other culture....and that this title of "best engineering" should switch hands every so often...so why is always NOT the case?


[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 07-20-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Max Ima
07-23-2000, 04:31 PM
Excellent responses. This topic seems to have brought out the best in we FreshAlloyers. The Audi love affair is impressive, altho' I doubt we'd be seeing this love a decade or so ago when all we could think about Audi was "60 minutes expose." And "Spontaneous acceleration." Just an observation.

As far as my loves. Well let me start with respect.
I respect Honda -- most of all for staying independent in this merger-happy environment.
I respect Ford for taking styling chances (Focus) and having a sound acquisition strategy. (Volvo and Jag make sense -- Mercury doesn''t.)
I respect Chrysler (Lutz-era) for being bold and innovative.
Now for the love.
I love BMW for their unyielding committment to their brand and to what they stand for. (Unlike Toyota(schitzophrenic) Lexus (Mercedes-now-BMW-wannabe) and sadly Nissan, where they don't stay true to themselves -- altho' I'd say the last coupla years Nissan's done a good job of being true to their heritage and their destiny.)
I also love Harley-Davidson -- altho' their recent forays into restaurants and Christmas ornaments is despicable. But at the end of the day, you gotta love a brand people have committed their lives to -- even marking their bodies with tattoos. Tattoo -- that's love.

Max Ima
07-23-2000, 04:33 PM
Excellent responses. This topic seems to have brought out the best in we FreshAlloyers. The Audi love affair is impressive, altho' I doubt we'd be seeing this love a decade or so ago when all we could think about Audi was "60 minutes expose." And "Spontaneous acceleration." Just an observation.

As far as my loves. Well let me start with respect.
I respect Honda -- most of all for staying independent in this merger-happy environment.
I respect Ford for taking styling chances (Focus) and having a sound acquisition strategy. (Volvo and Jag make sense -- Mercury doesn''t.)
I respect Chrysler (Lutz-era) for being bold and innovative.
Now for the love.
I love BMW for their unyielding committment to their brand and to what they stand for. (Unlike Toyota(schitzophrenic) Lexus (Mercedes-now-BMW-wannabe) and sadly Nissan, where they don't stay true to themselves -- altho' I'd say the last coupla years Nissan's done a good job of being true to their heritage and their destiny.)
I also love Harley-Davidson -- altho' their recent forays into restaurants and Christmas ornaments is despicable. But at the end of the day, you gotta love a brand people have committed their lives to -- even marking their bodies with tattoos. Tattoo -- that's love.

ChuckH
07-23-2000, 04:58 PM
Yeah, it's amazing how much impact the sudden acceleration thing had on Audi, even after it was discovered to be a scandal and that the cars tested were rigged. Between that and the Chevy pickups rigged with ignitors, I hope people don't still actually take anything 60 minutes does seriously!

I agree with your assesments of the companies you mention, although I'm not a Honda fan, based on a POS '93 Civic I had, and the fact that their cars are boring. Sadly, the only two cars I like from them are the S2000 and the Oddyssey. I do think they've done a good job of managing and staying away from mergers and money problems though.

Charles


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Max Ima:
Excellent responses. This topic seems to have brought out the best in we FreshAlloyers. The Audi love affair is impressive, altho' I doubt we'd be seeing this love a decade or so ago when all we could think about Audi was "60 minutes expose." And "Spontaneous acceleration." Just an observation.

As far as my loves. Well let me start with respect.
I respect Honda -- most of all for staying independent in this merger-happy environment.
I respect Ford for taking styling chances (Focus) and having a sound acquisition strategy. (Volvo and Jag make sense -- Mercury doesn''t.)
I respect Chrysler (Lutz-era) for being bold and innovative.
Now for the love.
I love BMW for their unyielding committment to their brand and to what they stand for. (Unlike Toyota(schitzophrenic) Lexus (Mercedes-now-BMW-wannabe) and sadly Nissan, where they don't stay true to themselves -- altho' I'd say the last coupla years Nissan's done a good job of being true to their heritage and their destiny.)
I also love Harley-Davidson -- altho' their recent forays into restaurants and Christmas ornaments is despicable. But at the end of the day, you gotta love a brand people have committed their lives to -- even marking their bodies with tattoos. Tattoo -- that's love. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Slack00
07-23-2000, 08:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ChuckH:
Slack, I have to disagree about Audi resale. THough that was once the case, I think you better check out the new models; particularly the A4, S4, and TT. When I had my '89, 90Q I had about 5 people try to get me to sell the car to them long before I was even thinking of selling, and all for more than it was suppose to sell for. A friend of mine ended up buying the car and then I had people mad at me for not telling them! http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif I drive an A4 now for work, and I always have people commenting and asking about the car. A few days ago, a road construction worker looked approvingly and commented as I drove by. I also know a guy selling his A4 to buy an S4. The first day he had his car advertised in the Auto Trader, he got 12 calls.

Anyway, I don't want to start a fight http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif, but I think that not only are the new Audi's desireable, but they have had a positive impact on the desireability of the older models. FWIW, I actually prefer the older cars, as I'm a die hard 5 cylinder fan and I feel the older models had more individuality. I'm hoping to buy another one to play with soon. But, I'm in the minority.

Charles


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you have your experience, I have mine. I must admit, the new Audi's are pretty classy looking. And the press defintely loves them...and surely when a car becomes a desireable piece of machinery, its popularity retroactive to its older models as well.

All I offer is my friends experience: He was in the market for an A4 or an A6 (Okay, at first it was a Passat, but then he slowly inched up the automotive ladder to Audi). We know a gas station/used car lot owner, so he can go to dealer auctions. Certain marques are offered during certain days of the week/month. When the Audi's came on the block, he said NOBODY budged. Not just one, but all Audis. And all these Audi's were less than a year or two old. He ended up buying a 1998 BMW 528i for less than the price of an older 323i with MORE miles that he was looking at another dealer. Who knows, maybe they just don't sell well in Texas.

So take that for what its worth... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

Speaking of five cylinder cars....I'm not especially a big Volvo fan, but the C70 coupe is one I definitely wouldn't be ashamed to own...

ChuckH
07-23-2000, 10:40 PM
Texas? No wonder; Audi doesn't make a pickup truck! http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif I still think that's odd that they wouldn't sell at an auction. I like the C70 also, but I won't drive anything with an automatic transmission and until Volvo offers something with a turbo and a manual gearbox, they won't get my business.

Charles


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slack00:
Well, you have your experience, I have mine. I must admit, the new Audi's are pretty classy looking. And the press defintely loves them...and surely when a car becomes a desireable piece of machinery, its popularity retroactive to its older models as well.

All I offer is my friends experience: He was in the market for an A4 or an A6 (Okay, at first it was a Passat, but then he slowly inched up the automotive ladder to Audi). We know a gas station/used car lot owner, so he can go to dealer auctions. Certain marques are offered during certain days of the week/month. When the Audi's came on the block, he said NOBODY budged. Not just one, but all Audis. And all these Audi's were less than a year or two old. He ended up buying a 1998 BMW 528i for less than the price of an older 323i with MORE miles that he was looking at another dealer. Who knows, maybe they just don't sell well in Texas.

So take that for what its worth... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

Speaking of five cylinder cars....I'm not especially a big Volvo fan, but the C70 coupe is one I definitely wouldn't be ashamed to own...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
07-24-2000, 08:16 PM
I am surpised that I am the only one to mention Jaguar. Every one of their current cars looks very distinctive and expensive. Few other cars have the style of "flair" to compete with them. Does anyone remember that movie from years ago with Dudley Moore as an ad exec who went crazy? They came up with an ad for Jag that went something like "For guys who want bl#w jobs." Hate to say it but Jags reek of sex(and class). Now that Jag has much better quality control and new models in the mix, I think they are going to gain market share quickly. I plan on buying a new '02 Q when they come out, but I am having trouble telling myself not to get a S-type 4.0.

Slack00
07-26-2000, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by j30owner:
I am surpised that I am the only one to mention Jaguar. Every one of their current cars looks very distinctive and expensive. Few other cars have the style of "flair" to compete with them. Does anyone remember that movie from years ago with Dudley Moore as an ad exec who went crazy? They came up with an ad for Jag that went something like "For guys who want bl#w jobs." Hate to say it but Jags reek of sex(and class). Now that Jag has much better quality control and new models in the mix, I think they are going to gain market share quickly. I plan on buying a new '02 Q when they come out, but I am having trouble telling myself not to get a S-type 4.0.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I guess I didn't mention any of Ford's subsidiaries....but needless to say Jaguar is a wonderful car company with a wonderful turnaround History reminiscent of Harley Davidson. Basically, Jaguar sucked in the seventies and eighties. They always produced some beautiful cars, but they were mechanical and manteinance nightmares (from what I understand). As is the case with most engineering problems, if you throw enough money at it, it will go away. Ford was willing to throw the money. Like I said in an earlier post, being bought out by Ford isn't bad news...they let the companies retain their independence while supporting them financially. Anyway, I would agree that todays lineup of cars represents a new Golden Era for Jaguars. Their cars are as lusty as ever, perform well, are extremely well apointed, and are reliable, to boot.

If I could own any purpose-built sports car in the world, it would be a Ferrari F-550 Maranello....but if could own any car in the world...for maximum satisfaction in terms of comfort, style, exclusivity, and performance, it would be the Jaguar XKR hands down. Oh, but not just ANY XKR, check out this website for a German tuner company called Arden....look for the Arden A-Type...

www.arden.de (http://www.arden.de)

British luxury + German tuning = http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

Check out the bottom of the A-Type page...if 460hp, 457ft-lbs of torque, six piston 14.5" front brakes, four piston 13" rear brakes, 20" wheels, a custom suspension sytem, custom lightweight body panels, a six speed manual or five speed paddle shifter transmission, an optional traffic guidance system, and a total interior treatment of wood, carbon fiber, or aluminum....... still doesn't quite do it for you, they can build you an AROMORED version of the A-Type...

Corvette sexy?.....nah...there are a billion on the road....JAGUAR...now THATS sex on wheels....

Oh, BTW, I remember the movie you are talking about...its hilarious!...and the advertisement is "For guys who want HAND jobs."....



[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 07-26-2000).]

noelsaw
07-26-2000, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by j30owner:
I plan on buying a new '02 Q when they come out, but I am having trouble telling myself not to get a S-type 4.0.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bit OT: The problem with the Jag S-type 4.0 is the interior is not as nice as other Jags. Hard plastics and lower quality leather. And that weird center console! Various mags have carped on this and from what I have seen personally I would tend to agree. I think the J30 interior blows away the current S-Type interior for now.

The exterior is very nice but most of the time, the owner will be inside. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
07-26-2000, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>I think the J30 interior blows away the current S-Type interior for now.

The exterior is very nice but most of the time, the owner will be inside. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are correct about the J30 interior. I can't find another car with and interior that I like anywhere near as much as my baby J. Nice and simple with clean lines.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-26-2000, 02:18 PM
nothing new here...audi kicks ass. then i'd have to go w/bmw. love that rear wheel action. of course, i'd take any 911 over any car. period. wanted one since the first time i saw one and have been lucky to have driven a few.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-29-2000, 04:08 PM
My favorite car company other than nissan is honda/acura. They make solid long lasting cars with performance. I also like mistubishi for one reason. Their Lancer EVolution VI. Oo and porsche is a kcik ass car company too esspecially their 911 turbo. And last but nto least i would sure wanna get m yhands on a 1967 shelby mustang gt500 for a classic but fast collectors car. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif