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Max Ima
10-29-2000, 09:11 AM
$512 million dollar loss for the quarter. Sales off 14%. A corporate decision to can cel the launch of the RWD Hemi convertible, full-size Dodge truck and a bigger grand Cherokee. What the hell happened to once hot Chrysler? Let's start with the Germans...

Max Ima
10-29-2000, 09:16 AM
And they're idling 7 plants in North America to boot.

**DONOTDELETE**
10-29-2000, 12:45 PM
I think people are discovering that great exterior design does not a good car make.

ChuckH
10-29-2000, 04:21 PM
Yeah, design over function. Personally, I don't even think their design has been anything spectacular. I can't think of one Chrysler product that really appeals to me. Add to that the fact that other manufacturers are starting to come out with better choices and that European cars are holding prices down while offering more, and Chrysler has some stiff competition.

**DONOTDELETE**
10-29-2000, 05:43 PM
Speaking of design over function; When my wife and I were shopping for a car last year she really wanted a Cirrus(badged as a Chrysler Stratus here) because she really liked the styling.When I went to sit in the drivers seat I was reminded of some of it's reviews.I could not see the front of the vehicle except the wiper and the high rear end was also invisible.

hiwayman17
10-30-2000, 04:38 AM
Hey, great design is a very good place to start. It certainly attracts buyers. But you would think with Mercedes influence, Chrysler could begin to be known for high quality also.

I have also said, Chrysler should only design cars and Honda should build the cars for Chrysler.

**DONOTDELETE**
10-30-2000, 08:08 AM
I guess the point I was trying to make in my last post was that hower attractive the exterior design of the Stratus is ,it does not function properly.You know when your driving through traffic or parking its nice to know where the ends are.It breaks some of the basic laws of car design.

xlr8r
11-09-2000, 07:54 AM
another problem with chrysler is the fact, like someone else said, all the cars offered was design. my brother worked with a gut who said almost all chryslers trannys went to hell at around 50k miles. my aunts sebring's tranny went out at around... 50k miles.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-13-2000, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xlr8r:
another problem with chrysler is the fact, like someone else said, all the cars offered was design. my brother worked with a gut who said almost all chryslers trannys went to hell at around 50k miles. my aunts sebring's tranny went out at around... 50k miles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Sebring is Mitsubishi under the skin; it's even built by Mitsu.

JonCarson
11-15-2000, 12:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Poligraf:
Actually, Sebring is Mitsubishi under the skin; it's even built by Mitsu.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure it's pure Mitsu, or is a DSM product? DSM = Diamond Star Motors = products jointly developed by Mitsubishi and Chrysler.

My friend just bought an Eclipse GSX and has been learning quite a bit about this interesting automotive relationship.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-15-2000, 11:21 AM
current intrepid coupes and sebring coupes (along with the old avengers) are eclipses beneath the skin - although the sedans and convertibles are not. they offer different engines, different transmissions, different interiors, and different exteriors. wtf?

hiwayman17
11-16-2000, 04:51 PM
Intrepid coupe??????

**DONOTDELETE**
11-16-2000, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carsonjon:
Are you sure it's pure Mitsu, or is a DSM product? DSM = Diamond Star Motors = products jointly developed by Mitsubishi and Chrysler.

My friend just bought an Eclipse GSX and has been learning quite a bit about this interesting automotive relationship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it's DSM, but DSM is now pure Mitsu; it was bought out somewhere in 90-s. The factory in normal, Ill builds 4 cars on the same platform: Eclipse, Galant, Sebring, Stratus (not Intrepid!) Coupe (former Avenger).

**DONOTDELETE**
11-16-2000, 10:19 PM
stratus, intrepid... i don't really care http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

hiwayman17
11-17-2000, 07:12 PM
Pure Mitsubishi doesn't exist anymore, now that DaimlerChrysler controls Mitsu.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-17-2000, 09:36 PM
So far, this merger has been nothing but a total failure.



[This message has been edited by Fairlady Z (edited 11-17-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
11-17-2000, 11:09 PM
as long as the federal government doesn't have to bail out chrysler again, it's all good.

hiwayman17
11-18-2000, 05:50 AM
The US government won't bail out a German company.

SHIFT_6speeds
11-18-2000, 07:36 AM
Chrysler quality overall is very poor. Chrysler as great ideas, but bad execution. The New Stratus and Sebring coupe have very poor workmanship, look at the cheap Eclipse dash in those things! And the prices on these things!

The PT Cruiser is another fine example... Love the idea behind the car, LOVE the look of the car, but OMG, it is a redresssed NEON! If the PT could have been given a better engine....and be made by some other manufacturer (Ford Excluded).

I do miss the utlity of a great Hatchback design. I loved my 81 Datsun 310 GX. And almost bought an Acura Integra for the Hatch design (but the insurance was outrageous). So the PT is a wonderful Idea....just made by the wrong manufactuer....

Max Ima
11-18-2000, 09:53 AM
Pne of the things that would turn things around is one of the things the Germans will not do. And that's use Mercedes-Benz componentry in Chrsyler products. Maybe it's not placed in the neons or sebrings, but if you just took the Concorde or the LHS and gave it a Mercedes engine or suspension system, you'd suddenly have a profitable sedan that could spark some interest among Lexus/Infiniti buyers. I'd keep the 300M as is btw to separate it from those other two models.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-18-2000, 11:00 AM
Chrysler's only problem really is their quality control. I think everyone here can attest to that in some way or another. Their interior materials (even among their higher end models) are cheap, their chassis are not that precise, and they fall apart. Everyone I know says they'd buy a new 300M if it werent for the fact they were such pieces of garbage. I think if they kept their designs the same, but upped the quality control level a bit (ok, a lot!) they'd much, much better off.

hiwayman17
11-18-2000, 03:44 PM
Chysler quality has improved, but it has been a lower level of quality compared to the average car.

My parents owned a 69 Dodge Dart and a 77 Dodge Aspen wagon. Both cars had a design flaw which allowed the top of the front fenders to rust through within 2 years of purchase.

I agree with the comments about interior quality. The hard plastic is a very poor material for an interior.

I have to say I was impressed when I test drove the PT Cruiser. I though the quality inside and out was a step above any other current Chrysler product.

thearabian
11-18-2000, 06:17 PM
Yes, quality is bad in chryslers
I sat in a 300M their "top of the line" and was very disapointed... the materials and ergonomics were much worse than an Altima which is half the price of a 300M

Moreover, i had a Neon for a month while i was waiting for my 2000 Altima, the only thing good in that car was the base on the stereo! the gearbox (3 sp auto) was from hell, seats, ergo, everything were sub (very sub) Sentra standards. and i felt as if they (chrysler) made inefficient use of interior space. Plus it's shaped like an Echo... and people still buy it.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2000, 03:05 PM
Chrylser's problem is not quality.

Two years ago, they were the most profitable car company on the planet, while the quality was very poor. But the management knows how to make money.

The problem is with the German management. If they don't perform, I bet DCX's big shareholders-Deutsche bank and the government of Kuwait won't be very happy.

Max Ima
11-21-2000, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairlady Z:
Chrylser's problem is not quality.

Two years ago, they were the most profitable car company on the planet, while the quality was very poor. But the management knows how to make money.

The problem is with the German management. If they don't perform, I bet DCX's big shareholders-Deutsche bank and the government of Kuwait won't be very happy.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are correct. I wouldn't be surpirsed if there was talk about sabotaging the Germans in an attempt to force a buy-back.

hiwayman17
11-21-2000, 08:58 PM
DaimlerChrysler forced mass resignations today of the top American management in key departments of Chrysler!
http://web.lexis-nexis.com/more/ai/17010/6580125/2

I think the German are killing this company.

**DONOTDELETE**
11-22-2000, 10:36 PM
The point is not only in Germans.
To be fair, the market has changed.

First of all, minivans are not that hot now (unless made by Honda).
Second, Dodge Ram is so dated, it can't compete with newer Ford, Chevy and Toyota. and these things don't have many repetitive customers bercause of their quality http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif
Jeep Grand Cherokie has fallen another victim; it looks like the market for the overpriced compact SUVs is going to limbo too.
Their passenger cars have never had particularly good sales ...

BTW, I liked 300M on the test drive. The only problem was with the size - it was just too big (I own a 300zx).

Max Ima
11-24-2000, 01:04 AM
Good observations, Poligraf. Basically, wherever Chrysler had an edge is now a piece of the market that's saturated, or the products are simply better. Plus Ford and GM are gaining even more momentum, tire blowouts notwithstanding, and the Japanese brands are getting a second wind. Chrsyler's in som deep ca-ca. LOL, Schnitzel Boys!

Max Ima
11-24-2000, 07:09 PM
BTW, there was a rumor that Toyota was interested in buying a piece of Chrysler. Toyota denies it. See caranddriver.com for details.

[This message has been edited by Max Ima (edited 11-24-2000).]

**DONOTDELETE**
11-25-2000, 06:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Max Ima:
BTW, there was a rumor that Toyota was interested in buying a piece of Chrysler. Toyota denies it. See caranddriver.com for details.

[This message has been edited by Max Ima (edited 11-24-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, if there's anyone that needs styling help, it's definitely Toyota.... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
11-25-2000, 07:03 PM
True http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

hiwayman17
11-27-2000, 01:49 AM
But the great stylists from Chrysler are all gone.

hiwayman17
11-30-2000, 03:52 PM
It's funny how times change. Several years ago, Kirk Kirkorian's threatened attempt to buy Chrysler was seen as a terrible thing. Then Chrysler sells out to the German's in what was thought to be a merger of equals. Then Schrempp admits to the press that there was no merger; it was a German takeover of Chrysler.

Now Kirkorian is suing DaimlerChrysler for for $8 billion dollars. Ordinarily I would say this is a stupid lawsuit because I think many lawsuits are stupid. But if this lawsuit shines some light on the horrific dangers in these "mergers" that are going on, I'm all in favor of what Kirkorian is doing.

Chrysler seems to have given up and sold out. Mercedes seems to have lied and tricked its way to a Chrysler takeover. Kirkorian is right when he says none of the actions taken in the passed 2.5 years has been in the best interest of Chrysler, the shareholders or the auto industry as a whole.

hiwayman17
11-30-2000, 03:55 PM
It is widely rumoured now that if Chrysler doesn't "get better" in the next quarter, Mercedes will sell off Chrysler.

Schrempp is also under immense pressure to resign because of the entire deal. What a mess.

Max Ima
11-30-2000, 10:12 PM
All of which leaves Nissan-Renault the poster child for global automotive alliance.

hiwayman17
12-01-2000, 04:32 PM
The Nissan-Renault thing works because it is an alliance. It appears as if Renault genuinely wants to help Nissan.

The DaimlerChrysler situation is now entirely different than it was originally thought to be.

If Nissan and Renault wanted to end their alliance today, both companies could probably claim the situation was a win-win deal. Or at the least, both might claim it was a 'no one loses' situation.

DaimlerChrysler would be a mess if it ended the arrangement. Mercedes might come out ok, but they will still have lost money. Chrysler would really be hurting thought. All the people that made the company as good as it has been recently are gone. Mercedes seems to have done a raid and destroy mission on Chrysler.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-01-2000, 06:48 PM
Remember that song by Queen, "Another one bites the dust?"

**DONOTDELETE**
12-02-2000, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Mercedes seems to have done a raid and destroy mission on Chrysler.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

but they didn't take anything! all they did was lose money and fire people. chrysler had nothing of real interest to mb, other than marketshare. their last significant technical advance - hemi heads - have been public domain since the 60's.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-02-2000, 03:31 PM
I think the lawsuits wil succedd-Kikorean have deep pockets to fight this to the end, and that fraud Schrempp himself admitted that he was lying when the deal was negotiated.

Slack00
12-02-2000, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pauli:
but they didn't take anything! all they did was lose money and fire people. chrysler had nothing of real interest to mb, other than marketshare. their last significant technical advance - hemi heads - have been public domain since the 60's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know that they even had to do that. From what I read, most of the execs who were the inventive flair behind Chrysler were so disgusted with the way the deal was panning out that they just walked.

I think what we are seeing here is a keeping up with the Jones' effect. MB and BMW realizing they will never be "real" global players unless they branch out. But it looks like they didn't do their homework as well as they thought. Rover=dead Chrysler=dying.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-02-2000, 05:42 PM
it's worth noting that bmw bought rover group for $1.2 billion in 94. they sold land rover to ford for $2.8 billion. on top of that, they sold the rest of rover (minus mini) for $15.00. numbers courtesy motor trend.

that is a way to run a business!

hiwayman17
12-02-2000, 09:33 PM
Mercedes stole a most precious thing from Chrysler--the morale of its employees.

thearabian
12-03-2000, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hiwayman17:
Mercedes stole a most precious thing from Chrysler--the morale of its employees. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah and BMW stole an even more precious thing from Land Rover... the technology to make an excellent high end SUV!
(and it worked marvelously)

hiwayman17
12-03-2000, 10:01 AM
I'm not so sure I agree with your statement that BMW stole all wheel drive technology from Land Rover.

The X5 couldn't be any more different from a Land Rover. The Land Rovers are extremely truck-like despite the "high end" status. BMW is extremely sports-car like and there is no disputing the quality of the BMW as opposed to the lack of quality of a Land Rover. Have you driven or just sat in a Discovery? It was hard for me to reconcile the quality and the price.

**DONOTDELETE**
12-03-2000, 07:05 PM
AND MORE GOOD NEWS FOR DAIMLER CHRYSLER JUST KEEPS COMING!!!!

German-U.S. automaker DaimlerChrysler AG's cash reserves are dropping to dangerously low levels, with company insiders acknowledging they may shrink to as little as $2 billion by the end of the year, Newsweek magazine said in its Dec. 4 edition.
If the reserves fall to that level, which is a 78 percent decline from two years ago, the automaker would be the poorest in Detroit. General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. each have cash reserves of more than $13 billion, the magazine said. The reserves are crucial to surviving a downturn.


Impressive http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/blush.gif

Max Ima
12-31-2000, 09:33 PM
Ward's Auto World reports that there's a rumor flying through Detroit that Mercedes is going to shutter Chrysler and pump all its investment money in a "light truck division" named Dodge. Any one know any more?