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Zed
04-24-2001, 10:04 AM
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/4484_image.jpg
http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/camry0103/01.jpg
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/4485_image.jpg

It seems Toyota is going after the Altima, with simular specs and is aiming for a lower age demographic as well.Camry News (http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3554&sid=178&n=156)

**DONOTDELETE**
04-24-2001, 10:55 AM
If Toyota tries too hard to seek out younger Camry buyers it could be their downfall. Nissan has traditionally had a more youthful and sporting appeal than Toyota. If they try to be too sporty they could shoot themselves in the foot and lose their previous Camry buyers..or better yet get them noticing the Altima. Im still curious why Toyota hasnt unveiled the new Camry yet.Isnt it due this Fall? Nissan has understandable reasons for not showing the 02' Maxima yet.

**DONOTDELETE**
04-24-2001, 11:04 AM
Yep, looks like Toyota is going Altima-chasing. Notice how in the article it says that the new 2.4L will approach the hp levels of the current 3.0L V6. As we all know, before the Altima was introduced, the 2.4L was expected to make 155-160 hp. Now it looks like they're shooting for 175-180 hp.

Frankly, I wonder why Toyota would be so afraid of the Altima -- I don't think the Altima is going to take away that many Camry buyers. They are two different segments. The reason that they are even considering Camrys is because they don't care about performance. If they don't care about performance, they are not going to go for the Altima's obvious sporting intentions, both in its style and in its performance. However, the Altima is really going to hurt the 626 and Galant, and will really damage the Accord and Passat. Passat buyers want style, while Accord owners want a Camry with more performance. The Altima trumps both of these cars on both aspects.

hiwayman17
04-24-2001, 02:57 PM
Since these cars will be released at approximately the same time--September--how can one say that one company is following the other? The development and production and release of these cars follow such a similar schedule. One would have to assume that all the early development was relatively secret. So, why isn't it possible that both companies selected the same path to follow. Or if there were information leaks, why couldn't it be Nissan following Toyota's lead?

Also, I'm not sure how anyone can say Altima will hurt 626. The 626 hurts its own sales by being bland, boring and doesn't begin to have enough sales that Altima could steal. Does the 626 have any "image"--sporty? reliability? Neither?

Galant is another story. Mitsubishi is a company that buyers turn to when they want to escape the boredom of Toyota and Honda. Galant also has a sporty image that Nissan will have with the new Altima.

Camry production in the US begins in late June or early July. Why haven't they introduced the new Camry? Probably because they aren't afraid of losing any sales even in light of Nissan pushing the Altima.

And finally, since it is obvious that the new Camry will not be as radical or as sporty as the new Altima, how can it be said that the Camry might have gone too far? When there are differences--Accord vs. Camry vs. Altima--and comparisons to be made by shoppers, it will still appear as if Camry isn't a sporty car compared to the Altima.

**DONOTDELETE**
04-24-2001, 03:21 PM
I still think that Altima will affect 626 sales greatly. IMO most people buy the 626 as it is something different from the CamCords, but also because often times, it is shopped on price like the current Altima. If this Altima is going to be a good value, and it is different from the CamCords, I think it will attract 626 buyers as well.

As for the Camry, there are widespread rumors of Toyota considering a 3.5L as an option for the Camry, and that it is bumping up the power of its I4 from 155-160 to over 175 hp. Now, it could be said that "How could Toyota just build a 3.5L on the spot just to keep up with Altima?" Keep in mind that the next generation ES has to be more powerful than the Camry, and if the Camry will be pushing 220 hp out of a 3.0L, the ES will have to move up to a bigger engine for more power. This 3.5L will probably see duty in the ES and Avalon anyways, so Toyota is just thinking of making it an option on the Camry as well. But I believe Toyota shouldn't go too far in trying to make the Camry sportier. The Accord is not really that sporty, but it sells well on the image. Making the Camry too hard-edged could alienate its loyal customer base.

hiwayman17
04-24-2001, 03:40 PM
According to plastics supplier Synova, 2002 Camry production will ramp up for full production capacity in July.

hiwayman17
04-24-2001, 03:43 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that people shop for price and would switch models/brands for a good price. I know people shop for the best price for the car they want.

I wanted a Mazda and was blown away by getting a deal that was $4000 below the sticker. I'm happy that Mazda's weren't selling well in 1998! But I also wanted a Mazda. By the time I was through test driving and I made my decision, I don't think anything would have swayed me to buy something else.

tbear
04-24-2001, 03:47 PM
I think the base model will have only 155hp. It's probably the *sport* version that will have higher hp. Right now they don't have a 2.4L unit that pumps up 175-180 hp, unless it is developed in secrecy.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy714:

the 2.4L was expected to make 155-160 hp. Now it looks like they're shooting for 175-180 hp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
04-24-2001, 06:04 PM
Nissan and Toyota have always copied each other.If Im not mistaken toyota hired some of the people who were working on the 240z concept and used the info to build the 2000gt. (at least I think thats what its called) It was rumored along time ago that the new camry 4 was gonna have 160hp. Consequently this was the same time the Alima was rumored to be getting 160-165hp 4. So I have no doubt that toyota bumped up the hp to stay competitive with the new Altima.

SHIFT_6speeds
04-24-2001, 09:25 PM
It is very clear that Toyota is following Nissan where the next Camry is concerned. I have read that Toyota has gone back to the drawing boards a few times after they have seen the 02 Altima. Also no "official" photos of the next Camry have not been released yet is due to the fact that Toyota is not even quite done finalizing the styling as of yet. So from this, it is clear on who is following who...

I will admit from what I have seen of the next Camry so far, I like. Very clean and conservative. I like that in styling.

**DONOTDELETE**
04-25-2001, 10:29 AM
It didnt exactly go down like that. Nissan was working with Yamaha on the car that became the 2000GT. Nissan dropped the project because the car was going to be too pricey (Mr K did want a DOHC 4 in the Z but they went with a I-6 to cut production costs). The design simularity between the 240z and 2000GT is no coincidence. Toyota picked up where Nissan left off and built the 2000GT. Guess Nissan was right...The 2000GT was too expensive and didnt sell while the Z car became the best selling sports car of all time. I think of the 2000GT as an early Z car prototype that someone actually built.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zbeast:
Nissan and Toyota have always copied each other.If Im not mistaken toyota hired some of the people who were working on the 240z concept and used the info to build the 2000gt. (at least I think thats what its called) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thearabian
04-25-2001, 04:34 PM
looks like the Camry's been indulging itself in fatty acids over the holidays http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

i know it's a test model, but it still looks bulky

to tell you the truth, im glad the camry is gonna look more like the early 90's version.

oh by the way, 2500th Car Lounge reply!

hiwayman17
04-25-2001, 04:35 PM
If you read industry newspapers, you would be aware of the fact that contracts for 2002 Camry parts were awards 6 months to one year ago--including interior and exterior plastic pieces. So I assume the styling and design of the Camry has been locked in for about one year.

I like the new Camry too. Only one word comes to mind: SLEEK. I don't view it as sporty or cutting edge.

2HD
04-25-2001, 06:49 PM
If the new Camry looks similar to the drawing (which it does)it's gonna make it even harder for the Altima to gain a foot hold in the market. But then again looking at the Camry I think the Altima will have best front end in it's class and overall be the most beautiful.

[This message has been edited by 2HD (edited 04-25-2001).]

Zed
04-26-2001, 08:20 AM
It seems to be shaping up that the Altima and Camry will be the big guns of 2002. Can't wait for the redesigned '03 Max to join the party and kick some serious butt! Go Nissan Go!

**DONOTDELETE**
05-11-2001, 08:55 PM
Yup! I think Altima's gonna take up the place of Accord, well atleast until it goes into production in '03. B.T.W. smart thinking HONDA waiting to see what Nissan and Toyota is going to do so that you can make a Accord that copies both of them...smart thinking but I don't think it's going to make a good impression on the public. Plus, don't forget...Maxima is coming out in '03 Nissan's backup plan, I like to call it. Nice thinking Nissan, if Altima doesn't beat them the Max will!!!

Republic
05-11-2001, 09:40 PM
What's Toyota so worried about? Nissan doesn't want to beat the Camry, at least not in its first year.

If you saw Carlos Ghosn introducing the 2002 Altima (you can still see it at nissandriven.com), you'd remember that Nissan plans to sell 190,000 Altima units annually. In the previous model year, Toyota sold over 820,000 Camrys.

The Altima will probably get quite a few Camry and Accord owners, but Nissan seems unwilling to rush this, thank God.

Can someone help me gain a better picture of Nissan sales? How did each of their models do in the last year?

thearabian
05-12-2001, 07:39 AM
sentra sells about 8000 a month
altima 12000
maxima 10000
Quest 2000
Pathfinder 7000
Xterra 7000
Frontier 8000

Nissan solf close to 700000 cars last year in the US

Max Ima
06-03-2001, 09:50 AM
Camry wll do just fine. Where Altima sales can really grow is eating away at Accord and swallowing up Mitsu/Mazda shoppers.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-04-2001, 12:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Max Ima:
Camry wll do just fine. Where Altima sales can really grow is eating away at Accord and swallowing up Mitsu/Mazda shoppers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, I'm tired of seeing the Altima catagorized in the "other car" segment with Mitsubishi and Mazda. It deserves more attention, as it is clearly a better over-all value, with a great price, and fairly superb performance('01 Alt), compared to the Mitsubishi Galant, or the Mazda 626. Both cars seem to be too bland and Camry Accord followers to me...Altima has it's uniqueness...

Nizzan
06-04-2001, 08:03 PM
The 820K figure could of come from F150 sales?

Hudson
06-05-2001, 12:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Republic:
What's Toyota so worried about? Nissan doesn't want to beat the Camry, at least not in its first year.

If you saw Carlos Ghosn introducing the 2002 Altima (you can still see it at nissandriven.com), you'd remember that Nissan plans to sell 190,000 Altima units annually. In the previous model year, Toyota sold over 820,000 Camrys.

The Altima will probably get quite a few Camry and Accord owners, but Nissan seems unwilling to rush this, thank God.

Can someone help me gain a better picture of Nissan sales? How did each of their models do in the last year?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ghosn said they'd BUILD 190,000 this year. This includes vehicles sold in Canada and Mexico (as well as the ones exported to other countries).

Last year, Nissan sold just shy of 137,000 Altimas. Toyota sold just over 422,000 Camrys in the US. Where did the 820,000 unit figure come from?

As good as the Altima might be, they'd have to find another plant to make it a contender in the Accord/Camry race. The Camry is sourced from two plants (plus the third plant where the "Camry" Solara comes from) and three plants supply Accords. Only one plant makes the Altima.

thearabian was very close with those estimates. Here are the Nissan brand actuals (rounded) from 2000:

Sentra - 99,000
Altima - 137,000
Maxima - 129,000
Frontier - 109,000
Xterra - 89,000
Pathfinder - 69,000
Quest - 43,000
others - less than 100

Total Nissan - 674,000

**DONOTDELETE**
06-10-2001, 01:33 PM
Hey, wait a minute...we're all getting caught up with the new Altima coming out in '02. How do we know for sure the Camry is coming out in '02. Maybe Toyota's had a change of plans and has decided to premiere it's Camry with the Honda Accord?

...Hey, you never know....Toyota has had change of plans like that everytime they think they're car isn't good enough for the competitor. That's what happened to the Corolla, if I'm not mistakened...

Republic
06-10-2001, 01:50 PM
WHOOPS! You're right, Nizzan and Hudson. The camry pushed 422,000 units, while there were well over 800,000 Ford F-series units sold.