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View Full Version : Garrett T3/T4 turbo or HKS GT3037S Turbo for a SR



**DONOTDELETE**
08-14-2002, 08:53 PM
Anyone had any experence with these turbos? heard good or bad things?

I'm thinking about putting one of them in a SR20DET S14 Black Top and need to know if I must do additional engine work, or if it will harm the engine if everything else is stock...

I may be putting some forged pistons in it, but other than that, would I have to do anything?

P.S. - A friend just ask me to ask about a red top for him... same ?'s...

PSI240SX
08-14-2002, 09:24 PM
I have seen certain trim T3/T4's produce 400rwhp on an SR, and I have seen Greaser put down 457rwhp with his GT3037 and that wasn't full boost. You will need at the very least an Apex Super AFC, injectors, fuel pump, Z32 MAFS, and a custom manifold to run big power numbers. Both are great turbos depending on what trim and A/R you get. if you can afford a $2000+ turbo then go ahead with the HKS, better to have and not need than to need and not have! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
08-14-2002, 10:49 PM
Thanks for the info. Greaser, if you read this, could you tell me what you did to your engine to handle the HKS Turbo? - Thanks!

**DONOTDELETE**
08-15-2002, 12:25 AM
crower rods, 9:1 wiesco pistons, greddy intake mani, 720lb/hr injectors, jwt S4 cams, electromotive TEC II standalone ecu. other supporting mods

on a stock motor the 3037 will do 300+@15psi all day long more but you need big injectors. i say for any turbo upgrade go with 720's.

i did 320rwhp last year with the same turbo......changed the intake mani, compression, rods, and cams. thats it. gained a [censored] load of power.

build hard pipes for the collant system.....the lower one collapsed and caused problems with my motor. check out "dyno results and impressions" thread i started for full info. happy reading cuz its long

**DONOTDELETE**
08-15-2002, 12:27 AM
with with a T04e 50 trim with stage 3 T3 turbine in a .63 a/r housing. Port it too. will flow better but not so much as the .82 to make it laggy. But my experience is with a 57 trim in a stage 3 turbine in a .82 a/r on a stock motor and it hit 15psi by 6,000rpm

uiuc240
08-15-2002, 10:16 AM
I told ya if ya came to FA, Greaser would hook you up with the knowhow http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Eric

Steeles
08-15-2002, 10:50 AM
Derrick, did you do your own hard pipes or a shop up there? I've got the KA radiator on for now but want to get new one for the SR. and would rather go with pipes like that at the same time.

edited : cuz Im dumb

**DONOTDELETE**
08-15-2002, 03:15 PM
I havent done them yet, but i'll be doing them. I'm sure any muffler shop could make the hardpipes i'll be using the same material, maybe alluminum .once the car gets running again i'll build the hardpipes.

Steeles
08-15-2002, 03:43 PM
I'll have to keep that in mind then. I saw Russ's car again this weekend and it made me want to clean out the engine bay http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

deeznutz
08-15-2002, 04:35 PM
Okay, so what is the size of the gt3037 anyways?

Thanks

-Dan

uiuc240
08-15-2002, 04:46 PM
HKS GT series turbo data (http://www.hksusa.com/categories/more.asp?id=1092)

Eric

Super13
08-15-2002, 06:57 PM
there was a post about an source for good prices on hks turbos maybe more than a few months ago

**DONOTDELETE**
08-16-2002, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the reply Greaser, I just got back in town and read it...

Voltron
08-17-2002, 11:18 AM
Any comment on lag for the T3/t4? I plan to build up a turbo ka for autox. Lag is an issue to be concerned with when autocrossing as anyone could imagine. It just so happens that I HAVE a T3/T4 ( one of the smaller trims ) just kinda laying around http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

PSI240SX
08-17-2002, 12:23 PM
Depending on the trims and A/R's you shouldnt have a problem. I autocross mine with a T3/T4b 60-1 stage 2 ex wheel and a small A/R I get 13psi at about 3500 or so.

PSI240SX
08-17-2002, 12:25 PM
Dracon- I am selling a T3/T4 if you are interested. Email me at PSI240SX@cfl.rr.com

nissan_s14
08-17-2002, 06:43 PM
Would a t3/t4 garrett .70 compressor and .48 exhaust be good for a quick spool up? That kind of setup should provide a wide pwrband, correct?

PSI240SX
08-17-2002, 09:48 PM
Yes it would provide good power with quick spool up time.

nissan_s14
08-17-2002, 10:29 PM
How much of the top end would I lose?
Would it be better to get a t3/t4 garrett with .63 compressor and .60 turbine?

nissan_s14
08-19-2002, 06:57 PM
bump on my question pls http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Enthalpy
08-19-2002, 07:51 PM
I prefer the 60-1 over the 60 trim on a technical basis. As long as the 60-1 is squeezed into a E housing...it is a B series compressor. but many shops can make it work.

Scott

asad
08-19-2002, 08:37 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
I prefer the 60-1 over the 60 trim on a technical basis.

[/QUOTE]

Interesting you say this -- what technical basis? The compressor maps indicate that the T04E series compressors are much more efficient at pressure ratios above 15 psi (which is where you would be using a turbo like this on a small-displacement motor), whereas the 60-1 has more flow albeit at lower pressure ratios (i.e. -- something a small-displacement motor can't use since it won't be flowing a lot at low pressure ratios).

Asad

**DONOTDELETE**
08-19-2002, 08:55 PM
asad, can you overlay a 60-1 to a comparitive flowing compressor map, say a t61 or another. I remember you did this somewhere else but think it was for a 50 trim and something else.....

reason i ask is from some readings i've found indicating opinions of users that the surge line of the 60-1 allows for high boost on lower airflows....... i'd like to look at this cuz every calculation i've made for my buddies 2.0 liter acura LS motor, we are about to surge the turbo if it spools any quicker(in colder weather or with nos)

'97 S14 SE Turbo
08-20-2002, 01:44 AM
Mike Lee's 60-1 could not supply any more airflow, when going from 18psi to 22psi on the dyno. The power stayed @ 400rwhp.

asad
08-20-2002, 11:26 AM
Here ya go Greaser (I've got a few just for kicks):

First up is the 50-trim T04E (black) vs. the 60-1 (blue)
http://apps.freshalloy.com/albums/AsadMisc/aar.gif
Can see that the 60-1 is clearly biased toward high airflow at low pressure levels. Remember that the T04E 50-trim is a compressor capable of ~400whp (if not more)...so you'd need a LOT of airflow at low boost to take advantage of the characteristics of the 60-1.

Next is the 60-trim T04E (black) vs. the 60-1 (blue)
http://apps.freshalloy.com/albums/AsadMisc/aas.gif
Again, you can see that the 60-1 isn't as well-suited to high pressure ratios as the 60-trim T04E

Now we have the 60-1 (black) vs. the 62-1 (red):
http://apps.freshalloy.com/albums/AsadMisc/aat.gif
They're basically identical, except the 62-1 has some more surge margin...

And last, the 60-1 (black) vs. the T61 (red)
http://apps.freshalloy.com/albums/AsadMisc/aau.gif
Now THAT's a compressor! Whooo boy the T61 is a beast. It's ALL OVER the 60-1 -- better in every respect: surge margin, overall airflow, can operate at higher pressure ratios, and has a MUCH larger peak efficiency island. Looks like we have a winner, folks (that is, if you're planning for over 500whp or so)...

Asad

Steeles
08-20-2002, 11:38 AM
hey asad/greaser how bout a quick breakdown of what we are looking at for us just learning about turbo sizing and flow charts? I'm not asking for Maximum boost", which I eventually will read but a quick reference gide http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

&lt;---- turbo noob

**DONOTDELETE**
08-20-2002, 11:45 AM
there are only 2 or three pages i use out of that book, the ones to pick a compressor. I'll scan and post soon.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-20-2002, 11:46 AM
asad you are the man, thank you for that information.....now just archive it.

Steeles
08-20-2002, 11:49 AM
cool thanks Greaser.

Asad wait for those pages before archiving! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
08-20-2002, 12:25 PM
sounds like a plan for me when i get off work @9pm so i should have them by 10 or so......i need a better site than eframes though, asad i'll hit you up on aim to send them to you

**DONOTDELETE**
08-20-2002, 09:11 PM
well [censored], ADOBE CAN SUCK MY BUTT......it wont let me scan or save the image as .jpg or any image format only some adobe extension ARGHGHHG i'm so iritated i feel like a pms'ing girl. shoot i'm going to get a beer ARGH i hate adobe with a passion.

btw i'm trying to scan my page 24-28 of maximum boost which indicates calculations on how to size a compressor up.

steeles i did this about a year ago with calculations so search around, i will cuz i know i was very detailed. I'll be looking too so you may find an edit with a link.

Steeles
08-21-2002, 12:04 AM
hey derrick I saw the other post, on scans you have to save it twice, once as that Photoshop extension then go back and do a save as and it should let you change it to Jpeg. or email them to me I can open them either way. thanks man next time your in NC or wherever I see ya first rounds on me http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

KenFuji
08-21-2002, 02:14 AM
ahahahah LOL!!!

go to file -&gt; save as copy -&gt; scroll down until you see .jpg

or go to file -&gt; save for web -&gt; save it will save as a gif file

and yes guys please give us a crash course on what we are looking at..... looks like the space time transfunctioner.... ahahaha

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 09:46 AM
What do you think of the Turbonetics T3/T4 turbo? How does it compare to the Garrett? It's a lot cheaper... can it be rebuilt easily? also, it it more expensive to rebuild a ceramic ball bearing turbo than a regular one?

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 11:46 AM
Basically you are plotting points on the map. You have two axis BOOST and AIRFLOW. BOOST is on the Y axis or vertical, AIRFLOW is on the Xaxis or horizontal.

The map shows the compressors efficiency at that boost pressure at that airflow. You are plotting your motors resultant airflow @ that boost on the chart. You find a compressor that suits you best. you want the compressor to have as much time possible in the highest efficiency island.

Go to www.turbofast.com.au (http://www.turbofast.com.au) and play with the java calculators they have for findiing a compressor. You set out points for them to plot and the link will plot them on the screen for you. The important thing is not to have only one point for max rpm, you have to set up a point for half RPM at that boost level. so if i have a motor that spins to 6000rpm max, i have to plot a point at 3000 to see if the compressor will hit the surge line(bad)......those that want high hp really wont hit surge alot of times because the compressor is never at the high boost at lower airflows because the turbine is so big to allow for high hp. so the big turbine wont let it spool quick enough to boost early in the rpm band. so if i put a t67 compressor on a stage 1 t3 turbine in a .48 a/r housing.......you can guaruntee it'll hit boost by 2500-3000rpm but you will surge the compressor.

The lines in the compressor maps are for shaft speed and efficiency. The way you find out where you plot your point is the boost pressure and the airflow on the x/y axis. Then you know what shaft speed you have and what efficiency you have.

When you plot points at same boost pressures (ie one at 3000rpm , and one at 6000rpm) then you have to connect the two dots, this is where the compressor will be operating through the rpm range of the motor. This is how you can tell "how long a compressor is in the high efficiency island"

i hope i am clear. steeles i'm trying to come down for hyper fest on the 7,8th of sep....its in NC. www.hyper-fest.com (http://www.hyper-fest.com)

Steeles
08-21-2002, 11:58 AM
cool yeah Mary said you might be down. I'll definately be down there. I dunno if I'll be down both days there is an autocross back in Gboro I might go to on Sun. I know Frankie will be at that. but yeah Sat. night in Charolette Im sure we can find a couple of drinks http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif thanks for the info. time to break out the math and play around. Im a ways off from upgrading so gives me plenty of research time

asad
08-21-2002, 02:12 PM
Turbonetics uses Garrett wheels in their turbos. Asking how a turbonetics turbo compares to a Garrett is like saying how does an Infinit I35 compare to a Nissan Maxima -- they're basically the same, although Turbonetics has some extra features that you might not get on a run-of-the-mill Garrett turbo.

AFAIK, the Turbonetics ceramic-single-ball-bearing turbos can't be rebuilt. And saying "T3/T4" is almost a meaningless statement, since there are at least 4 different T3 turbine wheels, 16 different T4 compressor wheel, 4 different T3 turbine housing sizes, and 4 or more different T4 compressor housings. So "T3/T4" could mean one of about a THOUSAND different turbos with various combinations of the above components.

Greaser -- I checked a while back, and some of the turbo calculators at www.turbofast.com.au (http://www.turbofast.com.au) are just plain wrong. I've gone back to doing it the old-fashioned way...

Asad

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the information, I should have provided the actual turbo model... Let me ask one more question, If you can't rebuild a ceramic ball bearing turbo, would the quick spool up still be worth getting the turbo know=ing you can't rebuild it? Do they go out all that much?

Super13
08-21-2002, 02:27 PM
what kind of intake manifold did u get &lt;greaser&gt; ?

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 02:38 PM
Greddy intake mani on the SR....

Stock intake mani on the KA

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 02:45 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Greaser -- I checked a while back, and some of the turbo calculators at www.turbofast.com.au (http://www.turbofast.com.au) are just plain wrong. I've gone back to doing it the old-fashioned way...


[/QUOTE]

for the turbo finder yes, but the compressor map one where you plot points on a map i didnt find a problem with.

for a ka 6600rpm 16psi it was telling me to use a 60wheel in a 1.06 a/r t3 housing....hmmmmm

i plan to run 10psi, but if it doesnt make 250 i'll go up to 15psi.....whatever boost gets me 250rwhp. (on my ka)

asad
08-21-2002, 02:49 PM
Actually, I found the compressor map calculator to be wrong in the past. There was some definite weirdness with the thermodynamic and airflow calculations. I sent them an email telling them about the problems, so maybe they've fixed it.

Asad

**DONOTDELETE**
08-21-2002, 03:21 PM
is there a recomended limit of boost psi on a sr engine (only the internals, I'm not talking about anything other than the block and head)