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ADAM HUTCHINSON
09-06-2002, 11:31 AM
i am considering going to OTC 2003 (open track challenge in california) and to run in the touring class this year the tire spec is max 140.... i have not bought street tires for years..so i really have no clue what is "hot" or good these days


anyone know?

how would they react on the track with a rear wheel drive car?

must be 140 treadwear not lower

have not bought street tires for years

thanks
adam

Voltron
09-06-2002, 11:45 AM
I have talked to a few Autox guys about this. Right now the flavor of the month is the Falken Azenzis. ( sp? ) One guy said the grip was near that of his old Khumo victoracers! Just that they where not as predictible at break away. This is at autox speeds mind you. I noticed all the old guys in their Miatas had switched too. For the price I guess they cant be beat.
My buddy at 1320 motorsports says there is no other tire than the Bridgestone potenza RA-1. But those are expensive.

uiuc240
09-06-2002, 12:32 PM
Bridgestone Potenza does not come in an RA-1

Toyo Proxes RA-1 is a real tire. Bridgestone Potenza RE730 is a real tire. What are you referring to?

Adam, get the Azenis. It's the best for your money at the moment.

Eric

ADAM HUTCHINSON
09-06-2002, 12:55 PM
are the 140 tread wear or higher?

also...do they chunk up or blister from hard track use?

asad
09-06-2002, 01:09 PM
The Azenis Sport are rated at 200 treadwear, but they're supposed to be much stickier than the treadwear rating indicates -- somewhat of a "cheater" tire, as I've heard it described. They're the current fave tire for autocrossers running in STS, but I doubt many of them can tell you how they stand up to repeated hard laps.

Asad

Voltron
09-06-2002, 01:26 PM
Oh sorry, I got the alphanumerics mixed up.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
09-06-2002, 01:28 PM
he he... the real way to cheat is to use a "tire conditioner" that really softens the compound up http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif


hmmm 200... that seems high....i am worried about blisters and chunking

i already bought a set of 60 tread wear tires for thie race this year..and now the go and change the spec to 140...

now i am stuck with a set of useless 60 treadwear tires..guess i will use them for next seasons rain tires..

Beef
09-06-2002, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about the Azenis blistering or chunking. My group of friends all use Azenis as for the most part our cars are daily drivers.

Built ITR - Azenis
AE86 - Azenis
B16 CRX - Azenis
Si - Azenis
B18 EK - Azenis
B16 EG - Azenis
Me - Azenis

As you can see it's primarily FWDers but we all drive hard. We're consistently in the top of the run groups. Nobody has had any problem. They wear well and are overall very predictable. My only complaint on them is the limited sizes available. I will most likely be going to V700s or something of that sort next year.

**DONOTDELETE**
09-06-2002, 02:18 PM
I can't say that I've used them on the 240 but they work really well on my Teg Type R http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif I've run them for track days at Sebring and Roebling Road and never had any problems with blistering... at Sebring they start to get a little "greasy" feeling after about 6 or 7 hard laps but that was when they were at full tread depth. you might want to consider having them shaved to eliminate some of the heat buildup. They make a really good street/track tire... good in the rain until they get really thin on tread and, imo, they have good breakaway characteristics and the slip angles are a little easier to feel than, for instance, the Victo's. I suspect that you'll be very pleased with the Azenis (especially considering the price!)

ADAM HUTCHINSON
09-06-2002, 02:41 PM
great...thanks for your input guys...

**DONOTDELETE**
09-06-2002, 03:00 PM
I'd go with the Azenis Sport, even though it carries a higher treadwear than the maximum allowed.

There is no standard measure of treadware. Treadwear ratings are only relative compared to other tires in the same manufacturers lineup. The Azenis is supposed to be 200 treadwear, but it is by far a better tire than the cheap RE-71's I used to buy which had a treadwear of 140.

The Azenis Sport is also very cheap right now, because Falken is using it as an "image tire." Not all sizes of Azenis Sport has been making Falken money, so in order to minimize their losses, you'll notice they eliminated 9 sizes of the Azenis Sport this year. Azenis Sport only comes in 6 sizes this year. If they were to expand the model into a full sized line-up, they would have to increase the prices in order for the line as a whole to make money...and in this case, I'm told, some of the tire sizes in Azenis Sport would go up 25%! So, if you're lucky enough to be able to use one or 2 of the 6 sizes available - go for it. They're good and cheap! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

BrianS
09-07-2002, 02:11 PM
the RE-71 was the best street tire ever...alas it is now gone

the azenis are pretty much a spec tire for any street-tire autoX or track class now, there is nothing stickier out there...however they dont necessarily 'feel' that good, they have a very mushy transition from slip to grip, and tend to act very differently from cold to hot, i used them for a season in STS...i dident really like them, but they ARE super sticky

a tire many people overlook is the sumitomo HTR-Z

its not as good as the azenis, but is as good as or better than any other 140-160 treadwear tire on the market, is very affordable, and holds up exceptionally well to track use, thats what i am running on my nissan right now, again, not as sticky, but they 'feel' a lot better, and since im not worried about being class competitive yet in my mew car, i would rather drive on the sumis

MATT_BACK_VASS
09-07-2002, 07:31 PM
what are the six sizes available??

195/60/15
205/50/15
215/45/16
i dont know the rest

MATT_BACK_VASS
09-07-2002, 07:32 PM
what are the six sizes available??

195/60/15
205/50/15
215/45/16
i dont know the rest

asad
09-07-2002, 07:51 PM
Oh, I thought of another tire that could be in the running -- the BFG g-force T/A KD. I don't know how it compares to the Azenis (except that it's more expensive!), but SCC used the KD as a "spec tire" for one of their shootouts and was very impressed, if that means anything. Right now I'm running BFG KDW (Dry/Wet) and the tires have a VERY stiff sidewall -- and I think the KD and the KDW have the same carcass, but different tread materials/patterns. The KD uses an asymmetric tread whereas the KDW is symmetric and has larger water grooves.

Most of the sizes are rated at treadwear 200, like the Azenis.

Asad

spite
09-07-2002, 08:18 PM
The BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD is a monster tire. Bar none, the best gripping street tire out there. Problem is, it's a damn expensive tire - so people go for Azenis.

Call up Quincy for his opinion on the Falkens. He was using them for a couple of lap and track days with his friend's WRX. They gripped quite well but I also saw them get torn up pretty good at those speeds. Of course, the suspension is basically stock so on each side the tires see far more load during a turn that they would... but they weren't the prettiest tires I saw.

My buddy with an S14 at Watkins Glen pushed the balls out of his car and his KDWs looked better (which are more all-around tires than regular KDs.)

jk240sx
09-07-2002, 10:58 PM
Adam,

check out the october issue of Grassroots Motorsports. there is a 140 tire shootout. done under equal testing, they tested the Kumho Ecsta v700, kumho v700 victoracer, toyo proxes ra1, and hoosier a3s03.

according to their data, the hoosier was combined quickest, followed by .60 by the kumho ecsta v700, kumho v700 victoracer, and finally the toyo proxes.

the bfg t/a kd & falken azenis are both 200 treadwear and, i believe, illegal for the class.

hope this helps.

asad
09-07-2002, 11:10 PM
I think that was an error when Adam said "max 140 treadwear". He said he couldn't use his 60-treadwear tires, and also "must be 140 treadwear not lower". So all the R-compounds are out.

Asad