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View Full Version : S13 SR VS S15 SR



**DONOTDELETE**
07-11-2000, 02:55 PM
I know there is about a 45 HP difference, but what in the engine makes it different and is it possible to modify the S13 internals to perform just like the S15, or are the differences too major.

i am trying to make sure I make the right decision in dropping in an engine. I don't want to regret not going out a little more for a better engine if it will be better in the long run.

S13 engines go for 2500 and up here, S15 is about twice as much....that is pretty drastic for just 45 extra HP....

**DONOTDELETE**
07-11-2000, 03:07 PM
Isnt the big difference in the numbers because the new s15's have the varible valve stuff? I would probaly recomend just going with an older sr20det and then upgrade the various parts. Spend the extra money on a good intercooler, better turbo, that type of stuff. Internals are pretty stout on the sr's so not too much needs to be done there.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-12-2000, 11:11 PM
The differences are the tranny (six speed) the injectors are bigger, the turbine is a ball bearing type similar to the hks gt turbines. The ECU is obviously different and it has the vvt.... You can basically make your own S15 engine out of the S13, all you need is the ecu, injectors and turbine.

07-13-2000, 02:14 PM
And the head if you want the VVT stuff, yes?

Asad

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ryan of Velocity:
The differences are the tranny (six speed) the injectors are bigger, the turbine is a ball bearing type similar to the hks gt turbines. The ECU is obviously different and it has the vvt.... You can basically make your own S15 engine out of the S13, all you need is the ecu, injectors and turbine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**DONOTDELETE**
07-13-2000, 08:37 PM
Well if i remember correctly just swapping heads for the vvt stuff isnt that easy. I think the vvt that nissan uses, uses oil pressure for the switch and you have to drill for that or something. I could be wrong tho

TitaniusMaximus
07-13-2000, 11:51 PM
Umm... I thought the SR20DET did not feature variable timing... the SR20VE does... but they do not turbochage those... the hp difference comes from better turbo packaging and the ECU... if I'm correct that is...

**DONOTDELETE**
07-14-2000, 01:38 PM
the latest edition of the sr20det in the s15 has varible vavling of sorts. i dont know exactly what it is or does but know it has it. dont know exactly whats the difference in it and the sr20ve and the neo-vvl stuff

**DONOTDELETE**
07-15-2000, 01:59 PM
ok i knew the new sr20det has a varible timing on it didnt know it had any varible lift or not. so on the varible timing how does that work on the nissans then?

**DONOTDELETE**
07-15-2000, 05:53 PM
92-94 Maximas SE have VTC also, and so do 91-99 Sentras with 1.6L, all VH45DEs had it too. It works good on the Sentra and the Q, but the Maxima has TONS of problems with those, they start to rattle and run like crap, have no low end power. It kicks in at about 3800RPMs. Only reason the get the S15 DET is the 6spd tranny. I wouldn't even mess with the VTC crap, without it U have WAY more cam options to choose from and get WAY more power out of a NON VTC engine. I have 2 SR20DETs, I know SR20s like the TOP of my hand.

**DONOTDELETE**
07-17-2000, 09:30 AM
Apparently the s14 sr also has vtc?

According to Mark's site at: http://www.geocities.com/slidesquads13/srspecs.html

What do guys think of the s14 motor?

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2001, 04:51 PM
From what I have read the s15 sr20det does have VVT and would need oil squirters just like doing a vtec swap on a honda. It is really not worth it. Although the s15 engine is slightly superior, its transmission is not. I have heard alot of stories about people missing a gear and blowing the engine because they are too close. The s14 sr20det has a weaker bottom and is junk, that is why they are rare. My suggestion is going with the redtop and spending the extra $$$ on a jwt ecu, bigger injector, cobra maf, changing the cam, and upgrading the turbo. Doing all this will safely give you over 500hp, put you in high 11's/ low 12's, and only run you a little more than having bought the s15 sr20det

NIS240SHU
11-20-2001, 04:57 PM
Where did you hear that S14 SR bottom ends are weaker, making them crap? That idea is crap. Also, if anything, S15 engines are rarer. Please tell us some good reasons why the S14 bottom end is weaker. I'd sure as hell like a good reason.

Junior

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2001, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by niteguro:
From what I have read the s15 sr20det does have VVT and would need oil squirters just like doing a vtec swap on a honda. It is really not worth it. Although the s15 engine is slightly superior, its transmission is not. I have heard alot of stories about people missing a gear and blowing the engine because they are too close. The s14 sr20det has a weaker bottom and is junk, that is why they are rare. My suggestion is going with the redtop and spending the extra $$$ on a jwt ecu, bigger injector, cobra maf, changing the cam, and upgrading the turbo. Doing all this will safely give you over 500hp, put you in high 11's/ low 12's, and only run you a little more than having bought the s15 sr20det<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i dont know how "safe" you would be without strenghthening the motor a little bit(rocker gaurds, rod, etc...) and instead of saying redtop, just say s13, cuz there's blacktop s13's too...
http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2001, 05:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NIS240SHU:
Please tell us some good reasons why the S14 bottom end is weaker. I'd sure as hell like a good reason.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would like to know as well...

The 6-speed that comes with the S15 SR is the "weaker" tranny, and many drifters that like to punish the valve train have problems with the thinner gears in the 6-speed box so they go with the beefier 5. The way to look at SR's is that older is cheaper with more mileage and the newer are more expensive with less mileage. Output is dependant on modifications, and since no two people modify their cars the same this can't be used as fair comparison.

SRFiveTen
11-20-2001, 05:08 PM
vvt has been offered on s14 sr20 engines since 1993.
there are plenty of cams to choose from that will work with the vvt.
there is nothing for the driver to do to let the ecu take care of vvt control at given rpms.

s15 sr20det has bb t-28 (t-25 on s13) and 480cc injectors (370 on s13) these plus the vvt help make up most of the 45ps difference.

s13 sr20det ecu will not manage vvt controls. so just adding the s14/15 head will not yield you the technological advantage.
the vvt head is not a bolt-on head for the s13 block. front covers seem very different.
[oops, s13 & s14 head gaskets are interchangable]

s13 engines have many many miles since they are about 10 years old.
s15 engines were introduced in 1999.

oil squirters on pistons have nothing to do with the vvt.
s13 ~ s15 det pistns receive the squirts.

s13, s14, s15 sr20's all use same crankshaft.
all rwd det rods are the same.
s15 bearings are said to have been improved over the s14.

i hope some of the misty myths have been cleared http://www.freshalloy.com/

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: SRFiveTen ]

Mav1178
11-20-2001, 05:53 PM
Everyone, repeat after me..

VTC
VTC
VTC

NOT VVT.

http://www.freshalloy.com/

Variable timing control.

All it does is advance the intake cam timing between 2500RPM and 5500RPM (exact #'s are at home).

At high RPM's it does not work.

It is designed to increase midrange torque. The max power increase is simply from a slightly bigger turbo, bigger injectors, higher boost, and revised ECU tuning. Any aftermarket turbo goodies can do the same thing.

-alex

SRFiveTen
11-20-2001, 06:14 PM
vvt = variable valve timing on s14, s15
vvl = variable valve lift on neo sr16ve

i believe the fsm refers to these features as nvcs, while the solenoid is called vtc solenoid.

vtc solenoid on s14 sr20de and sr20det is closed while at idle, when out of neutral, the solenoid is opened at 1050rpm, closed at 5700rpm.

same on s15 sr20det. but on s15 sr20de, solenoid is left opened all the way up to 8000rpm.

when vtc solenoid is opened, intake cam timing is advanced by 10deg. (20deg.@crank)
vtc solenoid closed at 5700rpm, cam is retarded back to norm.

s14 sr20de 160ps@6400rpm vs s15 sr20de 165ps@6400rpm, i suspect the 5ps gain was due to vtc solenoid being left open beyond 5700rpm. (i want mine that way too, i think....)


according to nissan, vtc solenoid = variable valve timing control solenoid http://www.freshalloy.com/

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: SRFiveTen ]

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2001, 06:49 PM
i wonder if the high hp sr's in japan have the vtc. does it make any difference in ultimate power output? whatever the case id be happy with just the s13 sr, and later i could even get the 6 speed if i wanted (about 2 grand!) that tranny wont see the kind of abuse that could break it, if it was on my car. it can still hold alot of power, and since the sr isnt a torque monster i wouldnt imagine it breaking too easily. im sure it is weaker though!

jspecusa
11-20-2001, 07:24 PM
S13 SR will be an easier install,
while S15 is one no one can do or has done yet.
You can be the 1st if you want, but just make sure you have $10,000 ready just in case you get stuck.
Good luck,

Sam http://www.freshalloy.com/

**DONOTDELETE**
11-20-2001, 10:22 PM
how is installing an s15 any different from installing an s13 or s14???

KenFuji
11-20-2001, 11:12 PM
wiring.... that's always the biggest head ache for any new swaps http://www.freshalloy.com/

Mav1178
11-20-2001, 11:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by niteguro:
how is installing an s15 any different from installing an s13 or s14???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S15's cost more to buy, so if something goes wrong you have more at stake to lose.

S13's cost roughly 1/2 of a S15 engine.

-alex