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Greaser_
01-07-2003, 06:12 PM
ok the new turbo selection has been made. 50trim t04e with a Otrim T4 turbine in a divided .69 housing

my 1-2shift brings me down to 4850rpm from a 7600rpm shift. I'm worrid about not having full boost so im thinking up a couple tricks and the related problems of implementing them

1. Shoot a 100shot>>>> ACTIVATED by the clutch switch that tells the cruise control to turn off. whenever the clutch is pushed a little in it activates this shot of nos to spool up the turbo. the nos adds air and fuel just like the throttle plate is still open.
2. plumb high pressure lines in the turbine housing for some high pressure gas to be activated during shifting to blow right on the turbine.
3. propane injection? i dont know too much about this but hear its the shiznizzle.
4. Plumb the outlet of the BOV right into the compressor housing to blow on the compressor to make it spool (maybe :rolleyes: )

now for the problems that i think they will cause:
1. will keep the motor revving during these shifts, not letting the tranny shift right.
2. will have the compressor still turning against a closed Throttle plate thereby using the BOV as its sole outlet of air. this may cause the compressor to SURGE and damage stuff.
3. the idea about the lines directly in the exhaust housing, i'm scared about the HUGE temperature change and shattering the turbine.

i guess thats all i'm worried about. oh and dont recomend speed shifting or "not letting off the gas" everytime i try the tranny wont shift right. i'm already at .13-.18 second shifts.

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2003, 06:34 PM
Or ditch your current EMS for the AEM EMS and use it's anti-lag feature...

Greaser_
01-07-2003, 06:46 PM
I can do it with my setup(slam timing to 0 and flood fuel), but shifting happens to fast and isnt enough to keep it spooled up. I wish i could make the ecu fire as the exhaust valve opens BOOM.(or maybe thats the extra kick that these other ecu's do)

Greaser_
01-07-2003, 06:47 PM
how much is the aem unit? i have two tec II's i'm sure i could sell off. heck i got off the HKS setup in 3 days.

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-07-2003, 07:14 PM
Call up AEM and talk to them for more information before making drastic changes. Cost is like $1,500. MSPR (IIRC)

silver88si
01-07-2003, 08:05 PM
Greaser go with the spray.
U may not even need the 100 shot
a 75 or even a 50 would do.
Also its gonna make your intake charge cooler than possible with just an FMIC.

If your running brackets its also nice to have a small hit for a tenth or two if u have to catch his ass. LOL

InterC00l
01-07-2003, 08:33 PM
Do you have any kind of 2-step rev limiter? Try wiring that up to activate thru the cruise control clutch switch. That way, you can flat foot shift, not over rev or cause tranny, issues, and still be at WOT so the BOV never fires. It will still keep the TB open and should keep the turbo spooled.

-InterC00l

Greaser_
01-07-2003, 08:43 PM
i didnt want to shoot the nos while the throttle is opened. i wanna limit my hp output as much as possible and have only boost. if you wanna laugh my new goal is 400hp @13psi. i made 400@ 15 on a log manifold with a small GT3037 turbine. so i'm changing things, adding cam gears and more blah blah....I mean i dont even know yet if i'll have a problem

efficiency and VE are my goals, and lack of pressure or heat.

Greaser_
01-07-2003, 08:47 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Do you have any kind of 2-step rev limiter? Try wiring that up to activate thru the cruise control clutch switch. That way, you can flat foot shift, not over rev or cause tranny, issues, and still be at WOT so the BOV never fires. It will still keep the TB open and should keep the turbo spooled.


[/QUOTE]
i do have a two step. its on a button right now. I may change that and put it on the top switch on the clutch pedal(the one for cruise) i'll try it. I've had it on the bottom one (the one to start the car) and i hated it cuz it woulddnt let me find where the clutch is about to engage and sit on the rev limiter.

Hugh
01-07-2003, 08:52 PM
I think N2O is a bad idea. It automatically puts the looming "NOS" over your head. Everyone will assume your car is fast because of NOS, man, NOS! You know what I mean? Your car will be fast because of the turbo you run.

Also, its only a matter of time before you are using the Nitrous to make more power. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

The Head
01-08-2003, 10:42 AM
pick up a haltech E6K you could use the anti lag setup or use it's stutter step feature to engauge a secondary revlimiter a friend of mine runs this on his DSM and has had great results plus the system is a few hundred less than the AEM unit
Some MSD ignitions have switch activated stutter step systems also

iHATEstupidity
01-08-2003, 03:25 PM
what kind of exh manifold are you going to run?
want to go with a propane combustor setup...?

THINK

Greaser_
01-08-2003, 03:36 PM
i'm switching to a equal length mani long big tubes for a divided housing, so only two runers will be connected at the flange into a divided T4 housing.

Sure gimme info on the setup you are talking about...proposed cost and what it does. again i have no idea if i'll even need it really. will it help low end? like 3000-5000rpm?

Hugh
01-08-2003, 08:37 PM
I talked about this with some of my friends here, and they said that they don't think I would have this issue because I am running the OS Giken Close Ratio Transmission. Once I get that turbo spooled, it will most definitely stay spooled with the new gear ratios I have. I think I may go for running the bigger housing as you suggested, Greaser.

iHATEstupidity
01-08-2003, 10:53 PM
where is the turbo going to be mounted? what will the exh manifold look like? how long do you want to keep your turbo? what i propose is something that could potentially spool a turbo enough to possibly produce up to 30-40psi at almost idle. it's crazy... and fun. will it work in a drag car? no one knows....!

THINK

Greaser_
01-09-2003, 12:07 AM
oh my god dude.....are you trying to blow my the [censored] up? i only want 7-10psi on the line. !5! did me just fine on the 11.39 run. good god. but hey it might keep it spooled up between shifts. we all bench racing right now. what do you think would happen in a .25second interval of it being "turned on"?????

cuz my 1-2 shift is about .21 and the 2-3 is .18 and the 3-4 is .1(something i forget but is low) on the datalogger. so the 1-2 shift being the longest and the lowest RPM drop thats the gear i'm worrried about. but hell what do real drag racers do with T88 turbos on 4cyl? sheesh, i'll just drive the bish.

gimme a cost of what you talking about. and MORE details heheh http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

slivic
01-09-2003, 12:36 AM
Hey I don't know crap yet, but I found this for you:

http://www.turboimports.com/nosturpressw.html

Greaser_
01-09-2003, 01:02 AM
oh yeah thats a great setup, but not the application i'm looking for....thanks man!(no really thanks http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif )

Hollywood
01-09-2003, 03:24 AM
Want less heat as you mentioned?..get the NX Ntercooler, and a grounding kit. Combined may give you an extra 20HP easy.

ThanatosZ
01-09-2003, 03:33 AM
Would switching to a heavier flywheel help you at all between shifts? I've heard that really light flywheels also make revs go down quicker, as well as rev up quicker. Im just going by hear say though. I remember reading you were using a Toda flywheel.. or maybe thats in one of your other cars?

silver88si
01-09-2003, 05:37 AM
All or most of the t88 or so 4cyl spray.
Sprayin if done RIGHT spools a turbo liek you wouldnt believe.

3Leater
01-09-2003, 01:13 PM
An aftermarket ECU with antilag would be your best bet. An Autronic unit where you can set the amount of antilag would do wonders for keeping the turbo spooled. HOWEVER, antilag comes at a price, EXTRA HEAT, not just a little...I mean a lot of HEAT. The extra heat causes things to go south quickly.

On a side note, propane injection is, IMHO, the step of the future for guys that want a high performance vehicles but live in heavy emission law states. A fuel that is injected at a very cold temp., is rated at 110+ octane, helps engines resist detonation, and is very easy on engines...what more could you ask for? Think about it...you could buy a car, put what ever parts you want on it, eliminate all emission controls from the car, even swap engines, and still have the paperwork that shows your car is a natural gas, low polluting vehicle, eliminating you in many states from emission inspections. Sorry I digressed.

Greaser_
01-09-2003, 01:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Would switching to a heavier flywheel help you at all between shifts? I've heard that really light flywheels also make revs go down quicker, as well as rev up quicker. Im just going by hear say though. I remember reading you were using a Toda flywheel.. or maybe thats in one of your other cars?

[/QUOTE]

i dont know if a heavier flywheel will help. Yeah i have the TODA on my 89 drag car. i was gonna switch to the stock one but decided to stick with the toda cuz i had to get the car together and couldnt wait for the flywheel from a freind in MD.

iHATEstupidity
01-09-2003, 02:55 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
On a side note, propane injection is, IMHO, the step of the future for guys that want a high performance vehicles but live in heavy emission law states.

[/QUOTE]

what's funny is that propane is also a throwback to the past. and as simple as it is to convert to propane/lpg, it's just beyond the capabilities of most modern-day import enthusiasts. quite unfortunate. that's why you mostly only see old coots playing with it on their hoopmobiles... we had a carb setup ready to go on a friend's vw thing... that sure ain't no performance mobile.
btw, greaseman: i'll show you what i have in mind later... just for kicks... it really is crazy and you prob wouldn't want to try it for a car you will actually campaign... or do you?!?! just think: combustor

THINK

asad
01-09-2003, 03:41 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
just think: combustor

[/QUOTE]

Ohhhhh damn. Hmmmmm....

Asad

Greaser_
01-09-2003, 04:11 PM
um combustor? i'm gonna have to look that up. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

you're not talking about sticking the Turbo outside the car braced and using it as thrust are you? ala that mr2 a while back HHAHAHHAh......

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-09-2003, 04:27 PM
hi greaser,
you need a bang bang system....check out some of the WRC ralley sites, they go into great detail on bang bang spool up systems...

basically they inject fuel into the turbo manifold and it ignites..thus spooling the turbo while your foot is off the gas....very hard on the turbo...but keeps it spooled...

iHATEstupidity
01-09-2003, 04:34 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Ohhhhh damn. Hmmmmm....


[/QUOTE]

shoooot.. i think i showed you my designs for this idea before! you know what's up!
hit the switch... turbo spooling sound like that of a jet engine taxiing down the runway and building up boost...
vreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

THINK

iHATEstupidity
01-09-2003, 04:35 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
um combustor? i'm gonna have to look that up.

you're not talking about sticking the Turbo outside the car braced and using it as thrust are you? ala that mr2 a while back HHAHAHHAh......

[/QUOTE]

nah not like that mr2... but you're close. btw, that reminds me, what sort of exhaust outlet restrictions have been implemented by these import racing sanctioning bodies now? basically: can you have your downpipe dump out at an upwards angle...? perhaps... up and out the side of the hood? that'd make life soooo much easier

THINK

Greaser_
01-09-2003, 04:46 PM
to run street class i have to have rear exit. but for those days that i'm not running street class i'm eying a side exit 4" DP or one through the hood to see how the motor is running from the exhaust outlet.


Send me those pics/drawings/emails you send to asad. i wanna see. implement on a smaller scale maybe.

DRAG_LIMITED
01-09-2003, 06:22 PM
I love the ralley cars when they let off the throttle and backfire like crazy! Sounds sooo nice in my mind but yeah thats a sure fire way to shorten a turbo's life!

Hugh
01-09-2003, 08:42 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
I've heard that really light flywheels also make revs go down quicker, as well as rev up quicker.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, a heavier flywheel could very well solve your problem.

I used to have a Trust flywheel. It was very lightweight (about the same as all the others out there) When I was running a tiny little A/R.40 T4 O-Trim exhaust housing, the turbo stayed spooled just fine.

When I swapped housings for an A/R.50, I got lag in between shifts. I was thinking about the same time my clutch was going bad, pulled it and it was ok. In the mean time, I got my hands on an OS Giken Twin Plate for cheap, so I wasn't about to go back to the Trust/ACT/Nismo setup I had before... Of course I put the OS Giken in there.

Well, the OS Giken has a 'birdcage' bolted to the flywheel which also holds the clutch cover and the pressure plates. This whole assembly keeps its weight on the flywheel while the clutch is pressed, so it effectively applies a little more weight than just a flywheel/pressure plate combo.

After the OS Clutch install, I've never had lag between shifts. Combine that with a close ratio tranny.... Hell, I know how they're running these big exhaust housings now.

C-Kwik
01-10-2003, 12:52 AM
When I first put the turbo in, my Wastegate was divorced. While I was still working out bugs, I had some misfire problems. At night, people backed way off when I raced them and I started getting severe misfire. I swear they were seeing flames come out the wastegate dumppipe. Intimidation.....

**DONOTDELETE**
01-10-2003, 01:24 AM
If your ecu doesn't do it something you might want to think about is the traction control system from racelogic in england. It has both launch control and flat shift options and with these your problems should be sorted. The launch control is like most where it only fires the plug every 4 revolutions or so and on a standard turbo this is good for about 6psi@3500 rpm in nuetral, certainly gets the car off the line rather nicely. Flat shift is just that, turn it on, leave you foot buried to the ground and the controller worry about the engine, I can't see you dropping off boost with the turbo/revs you're talking in the 1-2 shift.

The real ugly option is a c4, all the 8-9 second silvias down here use them now though it's not something I'm a particular fan of.