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View Full Version : KA head gasket question.



turbomiu
01-21-2003, 02:07 PM
I have a question to everybody, who is doing KAT. i'm going to be pushing around 25psi with my 95 built KAT. and i know i'm gonna have problem with head gasket so i was looking around steel head gasket, but nobody sell those. so do you guys have any idea where i can get it?

Kookz
01-21-2003, 02:11 PM
How do you know you're going to have a problem? I believe PSI240sx is running a stock headgasket, dyno'd 393 hp at 25 psi and ran 30 psi last week.

flip240
01-21-2003, 05:10 PM
FYI: Nothing against you personally, but people are always asking about steel headgaskets... Headgaskets blow BECAUSE OF DETONATION or IMPROPERLY TUNED engines. If your headgasket blows, or if you blow your motor (all things being equal) it is a result of an improperly tuned engine (or an inexperienced tuner which accounts for 99% of the people who tell you they blew their engine).

In addition to what kooka said, there are lots of people who run KATs using stock headgaskets. I think daywalker is getting his KAT prepped for 30 psi too and still using the stock headgasket.

Headgaskets are there as a failsafe for engines that are running improperly. If something goes wrong, be glad its the headgasket that blows and not your block and especially not your nice $700 pistons.

If anything, invest in some new pistons which are the weakest part in turbo'ing a KA

turbomiu
01-21-2003, 08:40 PM
I've heard so many things about psi240sx and he blew his haedgasket so many times and i can't do that you know. that's why i wanna make sure it won't blow. because i'm not gonna run 25 psi or more all the time you know. that was everything about what i was thinking...so if nobody make it then that will be fine.
thanks a lot

PSI240SX
01-21-2003, 10:24 PM
The only times I blew a gasket were when I overheated twice, and detonated real bad once. I ran 30psi no problem and the stock one is holding fine. Also, Duy's car in texas was running 545rwhp on his stock gasket as well. The stock gasket is sufficient when the car is cooled/tuned properly.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-22-2003, 12:05 AM
for those of us who are kat or going kat, like myself, we all gotta pay to play. but it's all good.

flip240
01-22-2003, 12:40 AM
turbo, what are you trying to say?? The fact is, you don't need a metal headgasket unless you are going to be a big player. if you blow the headgasket, you messed up and its not the headgasket's fault. better to blow a $100 (or whatever) headgasket than destroying your entire motor.

But yes, they do make metal headgaskets for the KA, they just aren't that popular since the stock one works so well. Search the forums for them if you still think you need one, i can't remember who makes them tho.

asad
01-22-2003, 01:42 AM
The only company that, to my knowledge, makes a metal headgasket is SCE -- they have a copper one for the KA.

Copper headgaskets, despite the fact that copper is a metal, aren't usually classified as a "metal headgasket" though...they're just called "copper headgaskets".

Cometic will make a multi-layered-steel headgasket...if you order 50.

Asad

Bill
01-22-2003, 03:36 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Also, Duy's car in texas was running 545rwhp on his stock gasket as well.

[/QUOTE]

Yup, stock one works fine. I would rather blow my head gasket than my engine.

turbomiu
01-22-2003, 04:56 PM
thanks a lot everybody. now i feel fine with stock headgasket. i hope my car will be running before april so see you guys out there.

DaveEEE
01-22-2003, 04:56 PM
I am building my KA up now, as per Nsport's reccomendations and my shops, I am going to be using a new stock Nissan headgasket and an O-Ringed block. It should do just fine...

Dave

**DONOTDELETE**
01-22-2003, 05:18 PM
If you are still that concerned with a Head Gasket ... go to http://www.back-yard-procutions.com

Choose between 1.0mm and 2.0mm Steel Head Gasket for the KA.

To be honest though, don't waste your money and get a OEM one and use the money for something else http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Just my 2 cents

turbomiu
01-22-2003, 05:25 PM
i called them. but there product was back ordered. that's why i was thinking. thank you for the info.

sssgtr
01-25-2003, 10:23 PM
I believe copper headgaskets only work properly if the block and/or head has been O-ringed to ensure the gasket really bites into it.

s14turbo
01-25-2003, 11:20 PM
i don't know why you guys would criticize a guy for wanting a metal head gasket. he just asked who makes metal head gaskets, not how good the stock one is. some people just like to put a little extra in everything they do. i think a metal headgasket would be great for turbo ka's. i myself have been looking for a metal head gasket for the longest time. this isn't a solicitation or anything, but i'd be willing to buy the order of 50 metal head gaskets, if there's enough interest amongst the kat guys to buy a lot of them off of me. i'm not trying to make money off of this, i just think it would help a lot of guys out.

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-26-2003, 03:10 AM
I've gone down that route... It's too much to have $5k in capital up front... The gaskets are $100 each.


...but, the KA24DE headgasket IS on their list of future application... It's up to the masses to bug them enough with phone calls to move it up.

s14turbo
01-26-2003, 03:17 AM
that's what i'm saying, i'm willing to foot the bill initially, if i can get enough people to buy most of 'em.

flip240
01-26-2003, 03:54 AM
We weren't criticizing him for wanting one, we were telling him that the stock one works for his application. I don't think there are that many people with KATs or any motor for that matter that are really pushing the big #s, over 500hp, but i think we're getting there, which would really start the neccessitation for 'semi-metallic' head gaskets for the KA.

sexy240
01-26-2003, 02:00 PM
you can get the copper gasket from summit racing at a bunch of different thicknesses. you have to call though. its not listed on the internet. I am thinking about doing this to lower the compression a little.

s14turbo
01-27-2003, 02:17 PM
stock paper and copper gaskets can eventually start leaking. this is especially important on a street car that sees a lot of miles btwn. rebuilds. a metal head gasket is still the best. why half-ass something when you can do it right.

d240t2
01-27-2003, 02:37 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
why half-ass something when you can do it right.

[/QUOTE]

But why is a stock headgasket half-assing it? The stock headgasket has been proven at over 400whp to be reliable. There are more people running stock headgaskets on high-hp turbo KAs than people running aftermarket ones.

Besides, the only non-stock headgasket available for KAs is the copper one...and I don't know anyone who has experience with it.

How is using the best part available half-assed?

Dennis

s14turbo
01-27-2003, 03:29 PM
the only reason it's the best available, is cause everyone just half-[censored] their engine building and goes w/ stock or copper. we only need 50 fukkin people to get in on a metal head gasket and we can't even gather up that much interest. and when there is someone interested like turbomui, he gets dismissed and everyone just tells him to use stock. he never asked about how much power the stock gasket can hold or how succesful some guy in tex. has been w/ it, all he wanted to know is how to get a metal head gasket. he never expressed interest in the stock gasket, yet almost everyones posts tell him to use it. that's why we hardly learn anything new, or why kat guys never really get ahead as a group. that's why honda motors make pretty much double the amount of hp that the most powerful kat motors make. the stock rims can handle 400+ hp, yet no one blinks twice about spending 2-3 grand on better rims. but the same people don't want to spend a 100 bucks on a better head gasket. i've been to forums for other cars, and if this were any other forum and someone expressed interest in a part that could help everybody move forward, people would come out and say yeah i want one too let's try to get together and make this happen. but instead on this forum people just try to steer you backward towards stock.

d240t2
01-27-2003, 03:47 PM
Well...we have had success with stock and failure putting together an order for Cometic to make headgaskets. Everytime it has come up, I have offered to purchase one.

Honda motors haven't developed further than the KAs because KA guys are [censored]...it is simply a matter of the number of people messing with them.

He asked about a metal headgasket, and we responded with all the info we had on metal headgaskets, as well as all the info we had on stock headgaskets. That doesn't sound to me like we are shorting him answers...it sounds like we are giving the complete story.

Lots of people come on here expressing interest in all sorts of things. Oftentimes, it is because they heard wrong information from somewhere...and they think they want something that we know that they don't want. I am trying to help give out the knowledge that people need to make the right decisions here. A lot of us really want to just improve the level of thought in the 240SX community. You have already dismissed the stock headgasket as useless. Why?

Dennis

asad
01-27-2003, 03:57 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
we only need 50 fukkin people

[/QUOTE]

ONLY???

Asad

Kookz
01-27-2003, 04:02 PM
Are there 50 KATs running around? There's maybe...6 on FA?

d240t2
01-27-2003, 04:29 PM
Besides the fact that all the people with real experience building Nissan motors suggest to use the stock headgasket...people like JWT, Sunbelt motors, etc. Just because it is aftermarket doesn't mean it is better.

Dennis

s14turbo
01-27-2003, 05:22 PM
again the reason those guys use stock, is because a metal head gasket is not available. if you went up to every last one of those engine builders and gave them the option of using a readily available metal gasket or stock, which do you think they'd choose. i'm not doubting the stock can hold xxx amount of hp, i'm saying a metal one is better at sealing. go out and boost 30 psi and stock will eventually leak. get mild detonation and the force will push the head upward just a little, and you will leak boost pressure. metal's not better because it's aftermarket, it's better because of its design, it's designed to be crushed and form a very strong seal. the stock is fine for most people, but i'd just like to see us move forward. we've just gotten to a point where everything's become circular. no one's been able to get an order together for metal gaskets so we end up w/ threads like this where everyone says it's too hard to get 50 gaskets so just stick w/ stock, which in turn lessens people's interest in a metal gasket even more. so we're just moving in a downward spiral.

Mav1178
01-27-2003, 05:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
so we're just moving in a downward spiral.

[/QUOTE]

In 6+ years I haven't even heard of 50 guys owning a KA turbo... and to convince EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to run a metal head gasket is impossible.

50 guys? Well, I wish you good luck. 50 orders is too much, because it is.

-alex

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-27-2003, 07:00 PM
It's obvious you haven't seen the stock headgasket... Calling it a paper gasket is wrong...

The key sealing areas against the cylinders is made of metal... yeah, it's no full metal headgasket, but it isn't pure paper either.

Also, the race shop mentioned can easily order the metal gaskets... It's not because it's not available. The certainly build enough of them.

d240t2
01-27-2003, 10:14 PM
I tell you what, S14turbo...let's get the metal headgaskets.

You purchase 30 of them for yourself, and I'll sell the other 20. Now you don't even have to put down the money for 50, only 30. I'll take care of the others. Let's get this metal head gasket thing moving. Hey, lemme make some phone calls...maybe we can split it 50/50. You just gotta let me sell all the ones I don't want before you start selling your set.

Dennis

mbmbmb23
01-27-2003, 10:37 PM
I'll buy one.

I agree tho....not only are there not 50 KA-T guys on here.....I'd be interested to know how many built KA's are even on here. So many people advocate turboing a stock, low mileage, KA...that I'm wondering if those folks (low mileage KA-T'ers) would even wanna mess with swapping out their OEM head gasket for a metal one.

I say that if you guys do front the money and get them made, sell them at a slight profit on here (and Zilvia), and sell them on ebay. Ebay would be a great way to reach all the KA-T wannabe'ers who are looking to turbo, who need to collect parts to do so, and haven't yet come across these chat boards.

-m

turbomiu
01-27-2003, 11:42 PM
i'm building my KA motor right now and i hope it will be done before summer. and it will be almost the same setup with psi240sx. so i hope i can see you guy on the road. and if you guys gonan make headgasket i'm gonna buy it!
but how much will it cost?

s14turbo
01-28-2003, 01:35 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Also, the race shop mentioned can easily order the metal gaskets... It's not because it's not available. The certainly build enough of them.

[/QUOTE]

don't be stupid, think about what you're saying. you're gonna tell us that race shops would voluntarily choose the stock gasket over a metal one if it was available? you're basically saying that stock is better than metal, that's not an argument you can win.

anyway d240, if you're serious about getting 25 of them pm me and i'll give you my paypal info. yeah, i'll let you sell all of yours first before i sell any of mine. lemme know if you really wanna do this.

Kookz
01-28-2003, 01:43 AM
Seeing as how the gasket is now on there list of future ones to build, I think you could convince them to start production now if you bought, say, 10 gaskets just to get things rolling.

d240t2
01-28-2003, 10:58 AM
Let me make a few phone calls when I get some time in the afternoon and I'll get back to you on it.

Dennis

d240t2
01-28-2003, 02:11 PM
Well...$72-78 is retail cost for most 4cyl gaskets. Cometic will have to see a stock gasket first before they can quote an official price. Then it'll take 4-6 weeks after placing an order before they'll ship. I will see about getting them a stock headgasket as well as see if I can presell a few of these in lots of 10 or so, for a discount.

Here is what I am thinking...I'll sell them for retail, let's assume $79. If someone orders 10+, they'll get 10% off. S14turbo, if you order half, I'll sell them to you at my price. What little profit I can recoup, I can use to cover my costs (such as time, the stock headgasket, etc.)

So how many people would spend $80 right now (or in 2 months) for a cometic headgasket? www.cometic.com (http://www.cometic.com)

Dennis

**DONOTDELETE**
01-28-2003, 02:11 PM
If you really want a metal headgasket for the KA couldn't you just have a machine shop or someone make you one? Would it really be that hard, maybe cost quite some $$$, but figuring that d240 and s14 probably won't pay 2500 each for 50 Metal Headgaskets (because they'll get screwed and not be able to sell them all off), you wouldn't really have much of a choice.

And stock will run fine. How many people do you think are going to be pushing +400rwhp on their KA.. not many.

s14turbo
01-28-2003, 05:12 PM
d240, pm me when you wanna do this.

flip240
01-28-2003, 05:32 PM
Do machine shops have that kind of equipment?? Headgaskets need special cutting and sandwiching required???

s14turbo
01-29-2003, 01:47 PM
hey what happened d240t2? you still in on this?

d240t2
01-29-2003, 02:19 PM
Relax, I have to make some more phone calls to see if I can presell a bunch of these. I can't be stuck sitting on them.

Also, there isn't any rush. I still have to order a headgasket and get it sent out there, then get a final quote...then it'll still be 4-6 weeks before they are ready.

In other words, I am still on it...but it is going to be a few days before anyone will hear any updates.

Dennis

s14turbo
01-29-2003, 05:32 PM
i've got a bunch of stock head gaskets lying around. i can order it and you can buy half off me. we're just gonna go w/ stock bore and stock height right?