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View Full Version : Intercooler ?'s, Do you need a greddy ect..help



portland98s14
01-28-2003, 08:05 AM
OK, so you would say that a top of the line greddy or blitz IC would be the best but we all dont have the money.

Would a 3"x14"x18" spearco core be sufficent?
Putting turbo together, so far:
Greddy TO4B
50lb msds
cobra maf
jwt ecu
+other essentials

Im trying to justify spending that much money on an intercooler. If the spearco would be safe then I would much rather go with that than the pricey jdm IC's.
I dont know the margin of performance gains between a spearco vs greddy blitz hks. So please comment/bash me, i'll learn the more you talk http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Thats for the help... peace. =Vj=

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-28-2003, 09:51 AM
i doubt you could tell the difference if they were the same size cores...

carluch
01-28-2003, 12:04 PM
the greddy is a good buy imo, for 800 shipped... although, now that i see that phase2 has the apexi gt kit for 930, i think i would get that... may seem like a lot of money, but (aside from the point that most 240sx owners are cheap/dont have money) compared to the cost of ic kits for other cars, we get off easy...

cdn_w_sr20
01-28-2003, 12:38 PM
You can actually save money by getting a spearco and then getting a shop to make the IC piping for you. There are some places selling these spearco's for $400 to $500. No way your going tell me that a shop is going to charge $300 for piping. Easy way to save money. The spearco cores are good cores, why do you think you see them on the drag celica afterall.

I myself bought a big griffin core and am having hks end tanks welded on. Is going to set me back a whopping $330 for the intercooler and the piping isn't so expensive. I'm looking at $500 for the entire thing.

jeremiah
01-28-2003, 01:05 PM
spearco cores are more efficient than greddy or blitz. not to mention the spearco 2-207, 3.0 X 14.2 X 18.5, flows 1010cfm...which is way more than either of those.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-28-2003, 02:04 PM
Ok, you asked the question wrong. Do you need a greddy fmic? No..... Do you need a turbo? No ... do you need an SR any...
but now that the internet mechanic (kevstar) is done with his rice math, the reality is by time you buy a nice size intercooller (350-550), and spend the $20 each on the 6 ubends you will need, 3 large and 3 small circumference, you have spent almost what you would have on the greddy kit. Maybe a differnce of say 200 at the most ifs you do most of the work your self. Now then you either have to take it to a shop (350-min), if you want good welds. And that doesn;t include towing the car there, since the turbo will have to be mounted and the car will be inoperable. Or do it your self and break out the duct tape, hacksaw and die grinder and go to town. Even if you go this route, you will more than likely still take it to a shop to have it welded, and most shops will charge 150 just for the nice clean welds. Or you can have your friend who says he can weld do it, but then for the whopping 100 dollars you saved, you have poorly routed plumbing that looks like ray Charles welded it ...
so.no you dont need it, but damn for $100 it would sure be nice ...

cdn_w_sr20
01-28-2003, 02:18 PM
Siksilvia, you must be one of the dumbest here, not sure when you'll stop with the kevstarz thing but whatever. If you ever want to talk to him I can give you his shops number. The IC piping that comes in the kit are decent, not the greatest things in the world. They are nice because there are no welds obviously. You can make IC piping that can flow better and for less money. To put it short, you can get a better intercooler (spearco core) and build potentially better piping and save money. Who cares if it takes time to get it done, in the long run it will be better and cost less. That $100 you save can go towards something else.

**DONOTDELETE**
01-28-2003, 02:40 PM
dude , give it up .. like 5 poeple from you town ahve already told me that you him. now shut up before i start to push to get you banned , again. since you have been twice before , it wont be hard .

right . so now in your internet garage , where you do most of you internet mechanicing , you can build a better flowing design for less than a company that has spend million on reseach and development . right kevstar , and i am the pope.

its not conjecture , its just plain dollars and sense . to build you own kit , you are looking at about $600 in materials. then you ahve to go through all the trouble of building the kit ,. and then it wont look as good , flow as well , or fit as well as a greddy kit , that would not have cost any more .

just for you kevstar
material.........................................6 00
tow to shop....................................50
welding.........................................10 0
--------------------------------------------
$ 750

greddy kit 800
shipping 0
bolting on and not cutting my hands up 0
welding 0
adding a bov flange 0
----------------------------------------------
800
so lets see .........
homemade kit that looks like ass 750 +your labor
greddy kit that fits 800+you bolt it on
proving an idiot wrong ..................priceless

JimStinksAtDorifto
01-28-2003, 02:48 PM
I agree with sik. By the time you get it all done, you *might have* saved $150 and you'll end up with a kit that does the job, but thats it. Spend the extra money and get a quality setup that requires no hacking, or redos, or trips to the shop, and one that you can pop the hood and showoff without saying "but see, i built it myself, so i saved money"

cdn_w_sr20
01-28-2003, 02:59 PM
Hacked job? Doesn't look good? You just insulted some of the best drag cars out there. The biggest pro about the kits is that there is no welding, it stops after that. But for the same money you can get a better intercooler and make the IC piping look amazing if you want to. Ever heard of powder coading, nothing like having the piping for your IC match the color of you car. If you try to tell me that kits look better than that then you need a reality check.

It all boils down to whether you want superior cooling for your Intercooler. The spearco will cool better than the blitz and greddy and if you want it to look damn nice your looking at a similar price.

ThonG
01-28-2003, 03:07 PM
You also have to remember that this is a fairly labor intensive job, I'm not sure how many hours, but for sake of arguement we'll say 5. Now unless you work at mcdonalds, that 5 hours you spent had an opportunity cost of close to or more than 100 bucks .(i.e. that time you could have spent working). So the difference in 'cost' is negligable, the difference in 'currency' is 100 bucks.

thon

**DONOTDELETE**
01-28-2003, 03:31 PM
??? Sorry Thon, not to be disrespectful, but your logic doesn't make too much sense to me. I don't think you can assign a dollar value opportunity cost unless you plan to work on your car instead of going to work. More appropriate examples of opportunity costs would be:

1) spending 5 hours with your family
2) spending 5 hours watching TV
3) spending 5 hours wondering how the heck you could've spent so much cash on your car...

Unless if you forego your job to work on your car, then cost is only the time you could've spent on something else. And to chime in on the topic, if you have time and expertise, do it custom. If not, buy a kit. I'm lazy and cheap, so I have a half a$$ custom job.

Tom

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-28-2003, 03:35 PM
if you value your time you sure can....if you don't value your time and put a "worth" on your time...then your off to a bad start...IMO

i look at all my time...as what it costs me.......that way i know if its cheaper to have a mechanic do it...or myself...unless its something fun of course http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

PowerdBY007
01-28-2003, 03:36 PM
NEED NEED.. I would say NO.. I see that many people are putting together budget jobs.. and using junkyard ICs..
I say need is a no.. if you really wanted one and did not want to pay full price you can also go for a used one..
getting the function over looks.. just another idea

IKu
01-28-2003, 04:06 PM
wait, wait, wait... you can buy intercooler kits for a pieced together turbo kit? greddy, blitz, a'pexi etc? the original poster wants to build a turbo kit, right? presumably for a ka. he can buy a kit for the intercooler instead of a core and custom piping?

cdn_w_sr20
01-28-2003, 04:24 PM
I think he's already got the turbo and is just wondering what to do for the intercooler. I would say go with spearco, better cooling, you won't be sorry.

NOSTALGIC_HERO
01-28-2003, 04:41 PM
naw.. your wrong.

i was in a similar boat when i was getting my car going like 2 years ago

and i had an Apexi GTR core and end tanks welded on, bent my own tabs and had them welded too... after like 5 hours of work polishing, and grinding off the R33 intercooler tabs off the end tanks they send you - and getting it welded, driving it to and from the shop, fitting it on the car, measuring brackets and cutting, bending and welding them.. i decided to sell the core- for 800.00

bought my V-SPL and was like "AHHH"

dude, buy the aftermarket.. who cares about custom. unless its for something never done before.....


why try to pioneer a path that has a paved highway running right next to it?

cheapskating knumbskulls unite!

cdn_w_sr20
01-28-2003, 04:57 PM
Here's the breakdown of my intercooler cost, and i just got this all done last week.

Griffin Intercooler core (24x10x2.75) = $220
HKS End Tanks = $80
Mild Steel U-bends = $70
Welding = FREE
Powder Coating Next Week = $175
MISC costs = $30

total = $575

The welding is free since my friend just happens to be a damn good welder. When its all smoothed out and powder coated it will look just as good if not way better than the kits. I'm not 100% sure on the griffin cores but when i spoke with one of griffins customer representatives they told me that this core should easily do what my 375hp application requires.

KSU_S13Less
01-28-2003, 05:07 PM
I would probably go with the Greddy kit. Less hassles. Better quality than most custom jobs.

Regards


Gregory

IKu
01-28-2003, 05:58 PM
"I think he's already got the turbo and is just wondering what to do for the intercooler. I would say go with spearco, better cooling, you won't be sorry."

uh... i know. but i wasn't aware greddy made an intercooler kit that will fit the ka.

LOwrestling2001
01-28-2003, 07:47 PM
actually yea the custom piping is a coo idea...shop did the custom piping including materials and labor (mandrel bent pieces) for 200...i got a custom IC core w/ endtanks for like 325...i mean u can find custom IC's w spearco cores from anywehre 299-399 on ebay, and they're good too...so like say a total of anywehre from 500-600...it's worth savin the money.

Chip_Letzgus
01-28-2003, 08:21 PM
Not everyone could get free welding done.

iHATEstupidity
01-28-2003, 08:22 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Griffin Intercooler core (24x10x2.75) = $220
HKS End Tanks = $80
Mild Steel U-bends = $70
Welding = FREE
Powder Coating Next Week = $175
MISC costs = $30

total = $575

[/QUOTE]

you forgot to add the cost of quality silicone couplings and hose clamps, and how about adding that aicv fitting? welding for people without hookups is not free, so there's another 150 bucks or so (most QUALITY welders will charge you 75 bucks just to fire up their welder for 1 minute). and how about down-time for the "custom" work and acquisition of parts? most cheap 240 people are cheap AND impatient. a poor combo. then the question of quality and aesthetics arises: how does the overall product look compared to a mass-produced setup? if it's not up to par, can one HONESTLY say they are proud of their clapped out-looking welds, and piping with bends that just don't flow with concinity? sure, looks shouldn't really matter, but it's about the pride in quality and workmanship.
if someone wants to go the cheap, custom route, and they really really think that's the way for them, then go for it. we've all gotta learn somewhere, sometime

THINK

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-28-2003, 08:33 PM
They will have one soon... It's listed in their 2003 catalog. KA intercooler, and radiator. All set for the turbokit.

LOwrestling2001
01-28-2003, 08:55 PM
umm...it's not free welding..hello...200 including labor and materials...

Chip_Letzgus
01-28-2003, 08:56 PM
umm.....not talking to you buddy....

IKu
01-28-2003, 11:31 PM
"They will have one soon... It's listed in their 2003 catalog. KA intercooler, and radiator. All set for the turbokit."

do you know if it will be available without the turbokit? and at what price?

Hollywood
01-29-2003, 03:35 AM
I dought a custom piping setup can out perform a 3 piece no welds, specific piping that hks, and other brand names offer.

Kevin, what happended to your 2 porshe IC welded together intercooler, now your going with griffon?

cdn_w_sr20
01-29-2003, 04:35 AM
Hollywood, kevin is using 2 porsche 911 intercooler cores or something like that, just a tad crazy if you ask me. The flow would be similar uness you use extremely tight bends. The griffon core was a good deal all in all, the flow is fairly efficient.

IKu
01-29-2003, 10:16 AM
"I dought a custom piping setup can out perform a 3 piece no welds, specific piping that hks, and other brand names offer."

nobody offers anything like this for the KA motor... yet.
so until greddy does come out with that kit, it's kind of backwards to keep telling people to get an intercooler kit. i supppose many of you are sr people. i THINK this guy is looking for something for a KA, judging from his parts list. though i'm not sure... so if it is for an sr... oops. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
01-29-2003, 11:02 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
Hollywood, kevin is using 2 porsche 911 intercooler cores or something like that, just a tad crazy if you ask me. The flow would be similar uness you use extremely tight bends. The griffon core was a good deal all in all, the flow is fairly efficient

[/QUOTE] dude , do you really think we are all as dumb as you? we know you are kevin, kevstar, mr sunshine , whatever . you were schmuck then , and you are a schmuck now ..... give it up .
oh, and just because you are cheap . still gives you no right to ignore all the eveidence we have shown you , and still insist that a home, ghetto rig is better ....

cdn_w_sr20
01-29-2003, 01:20 PM
siksilvia, once again i tell you to get a clue. Two different people, very different. Ghetto rig, nice word for that. You likely dont realize that the fastest imports don't use kits at all, they all use custom setups, why oh why could that be siksilvia.

s13SRmadness
01-29-2003, 01:43 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
The spearco cores are good cores, why do you think you see them on the drag celica afterall.


[/QUOTE]
you really want to know?
it's called money.
i am sure that they are not buying spearco cores and are probably getting $$ to run spearco products...

**DONOTDELETE**
01-29-2003, 01:47 PM
After hearing from Ryan that people are talking [censored] about me i figured i would come back here for a post. Now lets get there record strait here. Siksilvia you are for sure one of the biggest idiots i know. You don't think before you say things at all do you. Some of your posts make me fall on the floor laughing since your such a moron. I remember when ryan told me you though adrians stock SR could run 12's in calgary. I'm stilll laughing at that one.

I actually gave ryan the idea for the custom intercooler, and why? They are superior when built properly to any kit that is sold. If you want to argue with me you can call turbonetics/spearco and get this justified for yourself. They'll laugh at you if you tell them that a greddy kit is better than a spearco with a good piping job done. From what i read you seem to figure that people out there are idiots and can't weld properly. Since when is welding hard when you take your time and dont rush the job?

Some people buy kit and others dont, thats all there really is to it. There is nothing wrong with either method, the kit is the faster way to go. A custom Intercooler job will take longer and depending on the quality the person wants, look far better and can be way more sufficient than the kit. I know for fact the piping that comes with most kits is fairly good for flow, the bends are extremely nicely done so matching the kit isn't exactly easy and takes a lot of time to get it right.

I just figured siksilvia needs to get it right though, doggin somebody because you think something about them is a little wrong. I do find it humorous that you are such a schmuch though. Yeah I helped ryan do his swap and sold him the engine, thats right about where it stops.

Nuff about that idiot. Adrian how is your SR going? Orrin told me it is pullin pretty good for you? Are you still driving it in the winter or have you parked it until spring? Been a while since i've talked to ya, is your setup still just above stock?

carluch
01-29-2003, 01:52 PM
like sand through the hourglass... these are the days of our lives...

s13SRmadness
01-29-2003, 02:22 PM
calchurch- i think it's about time for a new avatar. that turbo looks like it came off a domestic car to me.

asad
01-29-2003, 02:29 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
i am sure that they are not buying spearco cores and are probably getting $$ to run spearco products...

[/QUOTE]

Yup...and remember that Turbonetics now owns Spearco...so naturally the Turbonetics Celica would be running a Spearco intercooler.

At any rate, saying "this car is fast and it uses this part" doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good part! You can make good power and run quick times with a Starion intercooler, but does that mean that it's the best part for the application? Of course not. Just because it's on a fast car and it works doesn't mean that another part wouldn't work just as well -- or better.

Asad

**DONOTDELETE**
01-29-2003, 02:35 PM
wow ...look . you think if you make a new screen name , poeple will think you i am wrong ? you equaling stupid in both post. #1 , in the world fastest imports , do you think there is some stupid canuck sitting around with a tape measure , hack saw and a tig welder ? no stupid , they actcually spend more money designing , flowing and setting up there plumbing . why ? BECAUSE THEY RACE FOR A LIVING AND HAVE MORE MONEY AT THERE DISPOSAL ! are you gonna flow test yours ? no , you are going to cut it tape it , and have your friend try to weld it. no flow test . no looking for restrictive angles . you are a fucin idiot, i will personally bet you any amount of money you can come up with , that you personaly , cannot make a set of intercooler plumbing that looks as nice , or even flows half as well as the greddy kit! you are a jack ass , and i base this on the fact that you repeatedly spout out the wrong answer , when you should have just shut up. btw , how is your awd rb27 powered s13 going ? whats in running in the imaginary 1320 these days?you say i am an idiot because i dont the elevation of calgary ? i ahve never been there ,and from the sample of the intellengence of poeple from there ,(you) i am surprised it still exist.will any american who is from the southern states who knows the elvation of clagary please raise there hand ? IDIOT .... i used to just think you 2 were the same people, then orrin and hollywood confirmed it for me . but now i am sure, beacuse unless you 2 are long lost brothers, there is no way you are not the same tool bag ......

asad
01-29-2003, 03:11 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
wow ...look . you think if you make a new screen name , poeple will think you i am wrong ? you

[/QUOTE]

Charlie...the IP addresses are different. Not only that, cdn_w_sr20's IP address is different from the IP addresses used by mr_sunshine and kevstarz. You "confirmed" it? What, just because some people guessed that they're the same person, that's good enough for you? The PM you sent me basically said "Yeah, these 2 people said it's the same guy" -- have either of the 2 actually met Kevin? Or met Ryan? Or are they doing the same thing as you -- just speculating? I think you need to just chill out and realize that hey, you're wrong!

Asad

d240t2
01-29-2003, 03:22 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
i ahve never been there ,and from the sample of the intellengence of poeple from there ,(you) i am surprised it still exist.

[/QUOTE]

I just thought that one was hilarious. For all of you who, like me, generally don't read long paragraph rants with no spacing...I had to pull that one out.

So, siksilvia, how do you intend to flow test to prove that his pipe "even flows half as well as the greddy kit!" What variable should we test? Pressure drop? At what flow rate? I bet that he can find someone to build pipes that have less than twice the pressure drop at the same flow rate as the Greddy pipes.

Dennis

carluch
01-29-2003, 03:26 PM
not really sure how IP addresses work, but would it be that difficult to start another screename on a different computer in a different location? also, can you tell when im posting from different machines (like home, work, friend's house)?

**DONOTDELETE**
01-29-2003, 03:31 PM
ah ...i said " that he personaly built",and really it is irrelevant , because for the same cost , he couldnt even come close.

btw , dennis , do you know the elevation of calgary ? or are you an idiot too ?

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-29-2003, 03:33 PM
you had better stop being nasty to canadians....if you had half a brain you would at least know some basic world geography....calgary is in the province of alberta..and guess what you can see from calgary...the rocky mountains...you do know what those are...correct...

hmmm...where do you live...orlando....being a stupid canuck i at least know the elevation of florida enough to know .......

i hope global warming comes sooner than later for you...dummy..
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

carluch
01-29-2003, 03:51 PM
adam, who here cannot deduce that florida, being a relatively small penisula on the atlantic ocean, is at sea level? but calgary? come on, do you really think the public schools in the US (or anywhere in the world) spend more than 15min on the geography of canada? http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif its sort of like asking a canuck what the elevation of eastbumblefuk, nj is... no one cares...

btw, im just joking around... i mean, come on, since canada pushes their military responsiblity on us, you'd think you would expect jokes here and there http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
01-29-2003, 03:52 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
you had better stop being nasty to canadians....if you had half a brain you would at least know some basic world geography....calgary is in the province of alberta..and guess what you can see from calgary...the rocky mountains...you do know what those are...correct...

hmmm...where do you live...orlando....being a stupid canuck i at least know the elevation of florida enough to know .......

i hope global warming comes sooner than later for you...dummy..




[/QUOTE] i dont have anything against canadians , adam , and i am sorry if i offended you or any other canadians , besides , the idiot that i was directing it at.

but i did take the dig at my intellegnece personally. you are from canada , so i would expect you to know about your country. do you know what states the blue ridge mountains run though ? how about the average elevation of tenn? should i call you a dummy?

it obvious that i am not the only person who thinks these 2 are the same. being a network admin, i know that if he used a shared borad band connection , it will issue dynamic ip , that will change everytime he reboot, or disconects from the network.not many people, unless using dial up , or some kinda dedicated line , will get a static ip. ip mean nothing , i stand by my orignal claims. but really that is still so far away from the point that he is wrong. the average person cannot build ther own intercooler piping to the same or better quality of greddy for less. Which was the whole point of this right ?

s13SRmadness
01-29-2003, 04:07 PM
what was this thread about???

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-29-2003, 04:13 PM
matter of fact i do know where they are...we have our companies american operation just outside of raliegh NC...

you have one of the most vast and diverse countries in the world north of you...your biggest and best trading partners and allies.... you should take 1hr and look at a map, and see what is up here...



sorry been to nashville...neat place..

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-29-2003, 04:16 PM
you have the military..cause usa has lots of enemies http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

who do we have to protect ourselfs against?

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-29-2003, 04:22 PM
sorry one more post....
you guys fail to see how big we really are...this province that you guys know nothing about(alberta) is over 264,000sq miles big.....

florida..... 58,000 sq miles....and pretty much one denny's after another....

just to put size into perspective...

s13SRmadness
01-29-2003, 04:41 PM
and you have pretty much nothing up there on all that acreage...
go ahead make fun of denny's... you have ice, ice, and mullethead hockey players on ice.
we may have more enemies, but it is fact that canada has not fortified their army due to the fact that, as the US's back yard, they can and will leech off our army in time of need.
don't overlook this as you bash the United States- we are not obligated to protect you kids up there on the ice.

Evil_rps13
01-29-2003, 04:45 PM
Look, since this thread has gone off topic because some [censored] here need to make rediculous coments here are some things to think about.
1.Can you fabricate piping yourself
2.Do you know what core your going to use
3.Do you have access to piping, silicone joints and mounting tabs
4.Do you have a band saw, chop saw, or chain cutter and file or die grinder
5.Do you have the time to do it if yes to all of the above
If you can answer yes to it all than you should do it. If not than you should just get a kit. The fit anf finish of most kits out there are pretty good and seem to work pretty well providing you use the right size core for you application. Don't get me wrong there are better cores out there ie.. spearco,pwr but they require the fabrication you mentioned. If your just trying to find the cheapest way to do it your just going to regret it later unless you are doing it yourself and are very capable or have a hook.

carluch
01-29-2003, 04:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
you have the military..cause usa has lots of enemies

who do we have to protect ourselfs against?

[/QUOTE] noone, because there is nothing worth protecting, except a border with the US... http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

jeremiah
01-29-2003, 05:06 PM
can't wait till the search is up. it will make chopping down trolls way too easy. ive seen who-ever-he-is(current FA troll) using the same exact words in posts as mrsunshine(previous FA troll) did. if the search worked fully it would be way too easy for siksilvia to win his case.

iHATEstupidity
01-29-2003, 05:17 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
You likely dont realize that the fastest imports don't use kits at all, they all use custom setups,

[/QUOTE]

the difference between those fastest imports and the cheap DIY fmic setups these 240 people want to run? those fastest imports' fmic are built by high-end fabricators who know what they're doing, and thusly, charge top dollar for their work. don't be surprised if a professionally-built fmic setup for a race-only application costs over 1000 for the labor alone.
you really gotta...

THINK

**DONOTDELETE**
01-30-2003, 11:20 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
can't wait till the search is up. it will make chopping down trolls way too easy. ive seen who-ever-he-is(current FA troll) using the same exact words in posts as mrsunshine(previous FA troll) did. if the search worked fully it would be way too easy for siksilvia to win his case.

[/QUOTE]
i am glad i am not the only one who notices

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-30-2003, 11:47 AM
i guess you don't travel much...or see much of the world...

all we have is a cultured country, that takes care of its people..rich or poor..and is respected throughout the world, while maintaining one of the highest standards of living in the world. and having a crime rate that is far below yours...on and on...i am not sure the usa has one thing...other than its sheer population..over canada..

..all you can say is your big...add that to all the strip malls and perkin's cafeteria's, and denny's..and what do you get...social decay

in times of NEED...canada has been there first..and helping...instead of waiting...keep that in mind...

have you even ever been to canada?

i have travelled almost all of the usa..and been to almost every city over the years...ok i have missed montana so far...and the dakota's...but most of the other states..and when you start comparing it to canada or europe...you are living in a pipe dream....

the size of your military are things that can be easily changed....try fixing your urban decay and murder rates....

canada could build its own jet fighters and tanks, and stealth bombers.ect...we have the expertise....just no reason too....

89SX
01-30-2003, 12:40 PM
As entertaining as your guys posts are to read, I fail to see what the pros and cons of living in either nation have to do with Intercooler's. Now if you can somehow coorelate the two subjects, that's fine, however that hasn't been done. Maybe you can start a poll in the off topic section or something, but quit hijacking this thread.
As for me, I personally like the look and fit of my Greddy kit, Personally a kit was good enough for me. Now if you can weld or have the hookups and time, a custom built one may be the one to go, if you know how much flow and such you'll be pushing through the intercooler so you can get the best matched size to your application. I think the little bit of extra money to pay for the intercooler kits and peace of mind you get with it, makes it worth it.

s13SRmadness
01-30-2003, 12:50 PM
well, having the pipes made in canada will be cheaper because... wait.... having pipes made in the USA will be cheaper because you can go to denny's or a strip mall... damn...
canada does not have a military that is even 10% the size of the US's because it cannot afford one. don't get it twisted here. taking care of rich and poor... if you mean the second rate helath care system you guys have brewed up over there in the ice, then you are crazy.
maybe all you have seen in the US is strip malls and denny's, but all joking aside, you know better...

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-30-2003, 01:12 PM
here are some neat figures to compare....

USA
Death rate:
Definition Field Listing
8.7 deaths/1,000 population (2002 est.)

CANADA
Death rate:
Definition Field Listing
7.54 deaths/1,000 population (2002 est.)

USA
Infant mortality rate:
Definition Field Listing
6.69 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

CANADA
Infant mortality rate:
Definition Field Listing
4.95 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)

USA
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:
Definition Field Listing
0.61% (1999 est.)

CANADA
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:
Definition Field Listing
0.3% (1999 est.)

USA
GDP - real growth rate:
Definition Field Listing
0.3% (2001 est.

CANADA
GDP - real growth rate:
Definition Field Listing
1.9% (2001 est.)

USA

Industrial production growth rate:
Definition Field Listing
-3.7% (2001 est.)

CANADA
Industrial production growth rate:
Definition Field Listing
0.5% (2001 est.)

USA
Exports:
Definition Field Listing
$723 billion (f.o.b., 2001 est

CANADA
Exports:
Definition Field Listing
$273.8 billion (f.o.b., 2001 est.)

USA
Debt - external:
Definition Field Listing
$862 billion (1995 est.)
Economic aid - donor:
Definition Field Listing
ODA, $6.9 billion (199

CANADA
Debt - external:
Definition Field Listing
$1.9 billion (2000)
Economic aid - donor:
Definition Field Listing
ODA, $1.3 billion (1999)

USA
Military expenditures - dollar figure:
Definition Field Listing
$276.7 billion (FY99 est.)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
Definition Field Listing
3.2% (FY99 est.)

CANADA
Military expenditures - dollar figure:
Definition Field Listing
$7,860,500,000 (FY01/02)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
Definition Field Listing
1.1% (FY01/02)

USA
Life expectancy at birth:
Definition Field Listing
total population: 77.4 years
male: 74.5 years
female: 80.2 years (2002 est.

CANADA
Life expectancy at birth:
Definition Field Listing
total population: 79.69 years
female: 83.25 years (2002 est.)
male: 76.3 years

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-30-2003, 01:14 PM
looks like we are gowing faster..exporting more per capita by alot..and our people are more healthy even with our "second rate" system....

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-30-2003, 01:29 PM
here is a juicy one.....looks like one thing the USA is BETTER at is killing each other...by the way in case you don't know...Toronto is our biggest city..and look at the murder rate...

thats pretty sad ...no

The source for the 1990 homicide statistics lists the murder rate for Canadian cities, of which I name a few:

* Regina........ 4.72
* Saskatoon..... 4.39
* Sudbury....... 4.00
* Edmonton...... 3.50
* Vancouver..... 3.45
* Montreal...... 3.40
* Winnipeg...... 3.05
* Calgary....... 2.60
* Toronto....... 1.80
* Hamilton...... 1.70
* Halifax....... 1.25
&amp;#61623; St. John's.. 0.00


Contrast these rates with the top U.S. murder cities, circa 1990:

* Washington,DC.. 59.5
* Detroit........ 57.9
* Atlanta........ 48.8
* Denver......... 43.4
* New Orleans.... 42.4
* Dallas......... 36.0
* Newark......... 35.9
* St. Lewis...... 32.9
* Baltimore...... 30.6
* Oakland........ 30.5
* Kansas City.... 29.9
* Memphis........ 26.0
* New York City.. 25.8

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-30-2003, 01:49 PM
Well, that's because the "domestics" are all built in Canada... lol...

s13SRmadness
01-30-2003, 01:54 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
looks like we are gowing faster..exporting more per capita by alot..and our people are more healthy even with our "second rate" system....


[/QUOTE]
growing faster is one thing, but look at the actual gdp, not the gdp growth rates.
also find some statistics on per capita income.
the percent of hiv/aids in the US does not affect intelligent people who take care of themselves.
the US economy is not exclusivley an industrial/exporting economy, so i'll take those figures for what they're worth, but it is not a total picture of the US economy.
stop hating, adam, admit that the US owns it's backyard.

asad
01-30-2003, 02:07 PM
Oooo-k guys, this has strayed off topic far enough.

Asad