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haxxord
11-02-2003, 02:57 PM
Ok the car is running now I put in the Tomei 740cc injectors but Iam having some problems setting the PFC for the tomei 740cc injectors. What else do I have to do besisdes set the -66 ms lag time? the car is running really rich and I have gas comeing out of the exahust. Also Iam still having the same problem with the settings not saving on the PFC. If I make a change and then go to turn the car over the Commander screen starts over shows the apexi logo and the settings wont save all the time. why would that happan? I was thinking the battery was kinda low. But the car would crank over unless when the starter and everything turns over it surges power and the ecu resets... anyone know??

and also I still dont know were these pins go in the 5pin plug that goes into the side of the ECU here is a pic. I need to know weather the black and blue wires go on the right or left in this plug
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TgDhAg8Yu8prGWE8AW1iZHBj3210ENBV6rsETaeTz2CbNevsN dDM9TjOj1zPA2Kl4pSaXbSpfUMzkc1g6gHdstXhwFWIt4yZ!xF cxpS9ioqRnEmydHZnhA/boost%20control.jpg

garageEPIKtuning
11-02-2003, 03:56 PM
Ok the car is running now I put in the Tomei 740cc injectors but Iam having some problems setting the PFC for the tomei 740cc injectors. What else do I have to do besisdes set the -66 ms lag time? the car is running really rich and I have gas comeing out of the exahust.



Well, there is your problem. The Inj setting you are using is for 555s which are 33% larger than the stock 370s. the settings you should have in the Inj menu are 50%, because the 740s are 2x the flow of the stock 370s. Set the MS to .08. Should take ALOT of the problem away. I have Nismo 740s in my car and this setting works perfectly.. idle is almost like stock.

As far as the issue with not saving settings.. check and make sure there is not a loose wire in the ECU plug.. ECU back up power. Not sure the pin, but there are several diagrams floating around.

Are you using the stock PFC fuel mapping too?

garageEPIKtuning
11-02-2003, 03:58 PM
also, if you actually have gas coming out the exhaust in liquid form, check your oil. If there is a lot of gas in the cylinders not being burned it will run down the cylinder walls into the pan too.. dilutes the oil and makes spinning a bearing a very easy thing to do, due to the thinning of the oil and the loss of it's lubricating qualities. If you smell gas in the oil.. change it! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

haxxord
11-02-2003, 05:26 PM
well I just found that on phase2motor trend that the inj lag time should be set at - 0.66 msec. what should I do .08 or .66-? and then I just set the injectors to 50% and thats it? and yes its the stock S13 injector map now also

SRFiveTen
11-02-2003, 05:51 PM
why are you worried about settings that your power fc cannot memorize?

first things first,,,, http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

haxxord
11-02-2003, 06:36 PM
well how can I change the settings and tune the pfc so my car will run right if the settings dont save. such as chooseing the right maf and injectors settings. What do you mean by first things first? also I was told that you can choose your injectors to 740cc 550cc 370cc etc. In the PFC but I see no option. Any other tips for getting the car running smooth. Any other ideas why the PFC might not save the changes made?

SRFiveTen
11-02-2003, 07:36 PM
about your forgetful power fc (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67570104&Forum =All_Forums&Words=3089&Match=Username&Searchpage=0 &Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=67567225&Search=true#P ost67570104)
this problem is the first and foremost issue you need to investigate and fix, before you worry about how to setup your power fc for upgraded injectors and whatnot.



Any other ideas why the PFC might not save the changes made?


possible solution has been hinted at least twice http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

garageEPIKtuning
11-02-2003, 08:50 PM
well I just found that on phase2motor trend that the inj lag time should be set at - 0.66 msec. what should I do .08 or .66-? and then I just set the injectors to 50% and thats it? and yes its the stock S13 injector map now also



did you look thru the PFC manual? Yes it is in Japanese, but there are several equasions in English to configure injector settings. The stock S13 370cc injectors are .58MS, and would be 100% on the Injector setting screen of the PFC. The 740s are twice as big as the 370s (370x2=740) so that drops the setting down to 50% and the MS is .66.. .66 is not the # you enter, but you subtract the setting on the stock inj (.58) from the 740s (.66) and you get a difference of .08. That is the # you enter for MS.. in oter words, as I said in the other post 50% .08MS

Of course, all this is a moot point if the settings wont save. Break out the test light and see what the back up power is doing.

haxxord
11-02-2003, 08:58 PM
huh thats odd when I first turned on the PFC and went to the injector settings it said 100$ then ms 0.00... odd so I should set it at 50% inj and set the ms to .08 is that negitive or postitive?

garageEPIKtuning
11-02-2003, 09:52 PM
yeas.. the stock inj settings are 100% and 0.00 that is because you are not altering the settings from factory.

Go ahead and set the injector menu to 50% and .08ms and then see how it is. Should clean up the problem with too much gas.

haxxord
11-02-2003, 10:52 PM
ok well I read something in the Power FC manual saying the first thing you should do when running the car let it run for 10 minuets so the car can self learn the idel until its stableized. I was just wondering if no settings would save unless you did this first?

Phatty
11-03-2003, 04:44 AM
no the settings should save, otherwise how would it run when using bigger injectors, MAF etc as u are? all the learning is doing is idle stabalisation.

SRFiveTen
11-03-2003, 09:44 AM
my friend's pfc learned on 740cc injectors, because it was wired correctly and held its memories.

this guy's pfc suffers from c.r.s.
can't remember sh!t

operator has little clue too, and your suggestion makes it more difficult to get through to him that he needs to fix the c.r.s. before he dreams of big power or any power.

haxxord
11-03-2003, 12:16 PM
well I read from power fc manual that

"The power fc dose not require a external power source to retain data. The data will remain in the memory even without the use of the vehicle battery."

So if thats ture that cancles out the possibilty of low battery causing the problem. So what do you supose I do to fix the problem? settings might be lost when the igniton is turned over the screen blinkes and it seems to reset. but on the same note settings seem to hold becuse I can change the way the car runs. harrmm odd

Iam going to get a datalog it USB connection to a laptop next week and iam going to get it tunned on a dyno. Hopefully after changes are made with the datalogit the settings will hold. Thanks for the tuning info Epik

SRFiveTen
11-03-2003, 01:52 PM
i had the same problem with my own pfc not memorizing any additional settings i programmed via commander, because i failed to provide switched 12v and constant 12v.

sure, power fc can operate on switched 12v, when you switch on your ignition, you can program your mafs/injector/boost control/any other changes, but when you switch it off, if you do not provide constant 12v, it will not store the new settings.
if you provide constant 12v, new settings will be memorized and stored, and if you disconnect the battery right after you switch off the ignition, memory will not be affected.

if you read and follow the procedure outlined for initializing the pfc program, you will notice that ignition switch is used rather than just removing the negative terminal from your battery.
i don't know exactly why this is so, but i am guessing that pfc knows the difference between switched 12v being switched off and constant 12v being cut off.
one thing i noticed with ignition switch in my key cylinder, between "on" and "start", there was a blackout for enough moment to count as not-constant 12v.

stock ecu doesn't seem so sensitive to constant 12v, because the only additional info it needs to store are d.t.c.

bust out a tester and fix your c.r.s.



Hopefully after changes are made with the datalogit the settings will hold.


$10 horse, $50 saddle, $2 jockey is not a winning combination http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

haxxord
11-03-2003, 10:09 PM
I really appericte your help SRfiveTen



had the same problem with my own pfc not memorizing any additional settings i programmed via commander, because i failed to provide switched 12v and constant 12v.



How did you fix the porblem that was occuring?

Would the settings save if the car was started then the setteings alterted? Iam away from the car right now otherwise I would check. Thats why it might seem like Iam asking dumb questions becuse I wana get everything figured out before I go work on my car again.. Thanks..

If I find that Iam not getting consistant 12v power to the ECU Relay. How would I go about fixing the problem, is it mearly just the battery power too low and not providing power to the ecu during cranking the egnine?

SRFiveTen
11-04-2003, 12:03 AM
i looked up which ecu pins needed switched 12v and constant 12v, connected correct wires to such pins, tested them with a tester.

mine was with s14 vtc motor in a '72 chassis.

do you own a tester?
do you know where a correct pinout for your ecu can be viewed?
constant 12v can be sourced from a cig lighter power, though i strongly recommend you place a fuse before the ecu, something like 7.5amp should do, i believe.



Would the settings save if the car was started then the setteings alterted? Iam away from the car right now otherwise I would check. Thats why it might seem like Iam asking dumb questions becuse I wana get everything figured out before I go work on my car again.. Thanks..


go out to your damn car and find out for your freakin self.

haxxord
11-04-2003, 03:27 PM
here is a link of the diagram

http://sr20det.nismo.org/srtech.htm

What pinouts am I looking for. Pin 4 - eccs relay
38 - ECCS power - Black White 46 - ECCS backup power - Red
47 - ECCS power - Black White


going to mess with my car today thanks for the help

haxxord
11-05-2003, 10:32 AM
ok well I got some good news and some bad news. Good News I hard wired pin 4 ECCS Relay to the battery with a 7.5 amp fuse inbetween the bat and the ecu. Now all changes to the Power FC are holding.

Now the real bad news.

Problem still occuring regardless of injector settings I tried various settings inj %50 -.08ms as well as, inj 35% .08ms still Fuel is comeing out of the exahust and still getting fuel in the oil system. The car dose start and will sound ok. Revs to about 4k RPM Max and has a mono tone bog sound to it, Something defently isnt right.

So Iam thinking it might be my CAS sensor might be off a few teeth. Would it effect the cars proformance if is 1-3 teeth off from being at 12 O'clock. I was told if the CAS Is bad that it would shoot fuel every half of a cam rotation. Is this true?

Also, Could it be my O2 Sensor? Spark Plugs? Or Possibly MAF sensor? what voltage should the MAF be runing under load say 1000-2000rpms

Could Incorrect Camshaft position cause soming like this?

Gime Some ideas this is so odd its driving me Crazy.. will this thing ever run? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

garageEPIKtuning
11-05-2003, 10:49 AM
pull your injector rail off the manifold and lay it on top, with a paper towel under the injectors.. turn the key so the fuel pump pressurizes the fuel lines. Any leaks from the injectors?

Glad to hear that you solved the c.r.s. problem on the PFC http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Did you have the head off? Did you install a headgasket? Cams? Anything inside the motor? Was the timing chain removed at any point? Have you done a compression test on the motor? Won't hurt to pull the valvecover, reset the CAS at TDC.

Sounds like now you either have leaky injector o-rings, or the cam timing is off. Check my other post on the PFC (12..psi..etc) the base timing value that the PFC goes off of is the stock 15*BTDC..everything timing wise is based on that.

shoes59
11-05-2003, 12:34 PM
i looked up which ecu pins needed switched 12v and constant 12v, connected correct wires to such pins, tested them with a tester.


SRFiveTen, you may recall helping me a while back when I first fired up my car. I had a CEL because I failed to disable the boost control function on the PFC. Your help was greatly appreciated and the car is running great. Based on the fact the boost control settings were successfully saved on the PFC, I should have a 12V constant to the ECU and be able to save the necessary changes when I install my Z32 MAF and larger injectors, correct?

haxxord
11-05-2003, 04:59 PM
Yea the Injectors arent leaking at all. New O-rings with the 740cc Injectors.

Yes the Head has been off, Ive installed Tomei 270/270 13 duration cams, Tomei RAS, Greddy Head Gasket, and Greddy Valve Springs.

I havent done a compresion test yet, The Timeing chain has been removed and I think is set somewere around 2* BDTC as shown in the S14 manual. So I should set the car to 15* BDTC?

garageEPIKtuning
11-05-2003, 05:54 PM
I havent done a compresion test yet, The Timeing chain has been removed and I think is set somewere around 2* BDTC as shown in the S14 manual. So I should set the car to 15* BDTC?



how do you mean 2*? The marks on the crank pulley are (facing motor.. going left to right) second from the left is TDC. Is this lined up properly for you? Was the CAS installed properly when the crank and cams were in this position? What is your ignition timing set at right now (base timing with the CAS)

SRFiveTen
11-05-2003, 10:55 PM
you may recall


i do.


Based on the fact the boost control settings were successfully saved


yes, but if you feel like being really adventurous, change the mafs setting to z32 and then turn off the key, switch it back to "on" and see if the setting was stored. you will not hurt anything and you can reset it to previous setting after you confirm for your self.

shoes59
11-06-2003, 06:50 AM
if you feel like being really adventurous, change the mafs setting to z32 and then turn off the key, switch it back to "on" and see if the setting was stored. you will not hurt anything and you can reset it to previous setting after you confirm for your self.


Again, I appreciate the tips and will give it a shot when the car is pulled from hibernation next spring. I also apologize to haxxord for hijacking his thread.

chris4130
11-06-2003, 10:15 AM
Ok the car is running now



So have you actually gotten the car running w/ a stock ecu? Running good/normal that is? Seems to me this would be important in ruling out non pfc related problems as to why your car is doing what it's doing.