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View Full Version : To all the haters of the 500+whp club....



Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 12:39 PM
Asad / Admin dont lock this please.

I would like to add something to the thread about Glenn from Hybrid Perf. here in tampa

to all you people who think this isnt an achievement you are flat out wrong. you have no idea of how much time, effort, thought and $ goes into making one of these motors achieve these levels of power. you are all a bunch of close minded fools if you cant see the achievement in this.

yes it has a narrow power band.
no it wont last forever.
yes it will fall out of boost between shifts (unless you flat shift it!!!)
no you cant drift it, take it to a road course, or daily drive it at those power levels.


but did you ever think that those werent concerns or goals of the person who built this car? Glenn from Hybrid Performance is a friend of mine. I help him / he helps me. we share knowledge and information with each other so that we can achieve the goals that we set forth.

I dont come on here and make fun of driffters for having slow, beat ass cars. or the NA KA guys for not having any power. or the drag guys because their cars cant handle. Instead i can appreciate what you guys want to do with your cars.

While we are learnign about what these engiens can do, and how to tune them safely, and what combinations of parts work. you guys are content to sit there and dismiss it as.

"oh thats just on the dyno"
"yeah he has no powerband"

and all those other pu$$y excuses you people make becasue you dont have the knowledge skill or financial means to make a car that can do this. i know if i offered to give my car at 540Hp to any of the members of this forum you would take it, and you would love it. you would have a whole new respect for the things that people like Glenn, Enjuku, TNT, Phase 2, and myself (no offence to anyone i left out) try to do.

the Ironic part is that when you guys have questions about what cams make power where, what different turbos are capable of, what AFR's you should be running, how to set the timign values for your car...or any of the other topics that people like us know becasue we spend so much time on the dyno...we are your best friend all of a sudden. the hypocracy is rediculous.

I thought this place was baout learnign and sharing knowledge, but apparently now it just about being a cool dr1f+3R....

is it any wonder people liek Derek Greaser dont post here anymore? Somedays i wonder why i post here anymore...

Scott

gatecrasher
01-27-2004, 12:52 PM
Preach on brother Scott http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

tnt
01-27-2004, 12:56 PM
WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!

Shaun

Vapor
01-27-2004, 01:02 PM
agreed.

fsae_alum
01-27-2004, 01:03 PM
For what it's worth, I'm in full agreement. From personal experience, it ISN'T easy to tune engines on a level that these guys are doing it at. One false move and it's all over. I too respect anybody that does ANY tuning to their car. By experimenting and tuning you learn, by learning, we ALL get better. It's called e v o l u t i o n. It's what brought us out of the caves. Lets's all salute the fact that he got where he has because that's MUCH further than where most of us are with our own cars.

BlackBomber
01-27-2004, 01:10 PM
I agree. Somebody has to do it! I think all the tuners have done an excellent job.

And another comment on all the SR tuners including Scott, Shaun, XAT (Phase2). Many times on different forums I have seen the kings of horsepower not be able to get along. They refer to it as tuner wars. But it is nice to see all the top tuners on these forums actually helping each other instead of fighting about who has more horsepower. Its nice to see tuners getting along for a change.

And one other comment on the powerband. Take Shaun's SRX-1 for example. His powerband is up in the higher RPM range, BUT HE BUILT HIS CAR WITH SPECIFIC GOALS FOR DRAG RACING and when he is racing, IT DOESN'T FALL OUT OF HIS DESIGNED POWERBAND. He sees full boost all the way down the track. Its not like the tuners don't design the powerband to be like this!!

- Jay

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-27-2004, 01:11 PM
I think its neat all the testing and tuning you are doing, however people might be thinking that its not valid (from the posts i have seen)

and in a way they are true....if you are indeed trying to develop this engine (or any other engine platform) you have to have a goal in mind, and this goal must entail its intended application. other wise you will get comments that its just a dyno queen...meaning its just being tested as an engine with the car as engine "holder"

my point is..what is the point of developing this high horsepower?

do you have a plan to place this powerplant into a certain type of race?

ie...if you are indeed developing this powerplant you have certain goals in mind...

as examples...
street use= reliable power and min 20k engine life
drag use= most power possible 15hrs engine life
road race= most power possible 500hrs engine life

now if its just a series of test on how far you can take the "engine" itself..than thats fine....but has no bearing in the real world...and i think thats why you see on that other post people harping and going on about the power band ect...

if you were telling me that you have a test plan for the motor under race load conditions (whatever race/application that is and parameters that have been decided upon) then thats a differnt story...

if you came back with data like....

SR engine at 31psi withstood WOT..under load for 5 min...then cool down....then WOT for 5min...foe whatever predetermined time that was..all the while monitoring EGT's and other data ...GREAT..then you are starting to develop a nice test plan for that engine in the intended application that it is being desiged for and the intended duration and life expectancy of that power level.. but if you do tests and say engine made 600 whatever..don't have a clue how long it will last ..or maybe we did break it or damage it...thats not very usefull info ..other than knowing it can stand in some cases 600 whatever for 10 seconds..

in any case i still think its neat that you can get 600+ out of that engine even if you are just doing it for fun.

i am not trying to be nasty or anything..maybe it is what some of the guys thought when they were posting on that other thread

adam

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 01:41 PM
adam,

this is exactly the opiniion that i was talking about...and frankly i'm not surprised to see it from you.

We dont care how long the engine lasts!!! i'm not scared of blowing one up. We do take our cars out on the street and we run them hard VERY hard. has your car ever seen redline in 5th gear...186mph? mine has! just because we arent racing in some organized or sanctioned event doesnt take away from the achievemnt. TNT has taken his car to the strip, so does Enjuku, so will phase2. we are testing these cars for real... is this part dyno queening? yep. is it part bragging rights? yep. do we turn the boost down when we hit the track or street? hell no!

how are we supposed to determine how long these things last with out first taking them to this power level...and then taking them out to use them? maybe the reports wil start to come in in a few months about how long these things last. as it was said earlier mine lasted a few months of driving it hard on the street a 3-4 times a week. And that's perfectly ok. i think that is actually a pretty good test result givent he fact that these are a 200 hp (170 ish whp) engiens straight from the factory. and we are running 540+ whp!! oh and by the way the only reason my car is down is because the walbor 255 lph couldnt keep up anymore and #4 went lean! the supporting parts had the failure....not the engine. even a fully built motor would have died from that. so we are doing our research and we will post the results. all we ask is that the haters stay in the corner...and dont try and belittle our achievements when they have nothing to add.

we are never content. we never accept the limits that we are told. we never stop progressing.

Jeff240sx
01-27-2004, 01:41 PM
Somehow I think that part of this post is directed towards my "powerband" post in the original thread. If you think I was hating, you're wrong. It's incredible to make 3 times the power with a stock block, than it was originally built for. Tell a Chevy guy to do that, and they'll laugh at you! People are thrilled with the 750rwhp Ligenfelter Corvette. Its a different block, twin turbo, and only makes a bit over twice as much as stock. This feat is now the equivalent of a 1050rwhp Corvette with the stock 350. This is insane! But, the main purpose of my post was that with more RPMs, the peak power would surely go up (look.. there was a hump of power right at 7500rpm), and the power would then become more useful, ect. And you are right, many car "enthusiasts" will haggle you down on a part, when you're already losing money on it. I even hit a wall, after $1000's of dollars, I'm $1k short of my goal. So for me hating, no. Jealous, hell ya! Bitter, no.. I'm in awe. Just trying to make a suggestion.
-Jeff

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 01:45 PM
appreciate your response jeff. but no this wasnt directly pointed at you. it is a response to the people who constantly come into threads like this and try to tear our work down becasue it doesnt conform to their ideaology of what should be done with cars.

trsilvias13
01-27-2004, 01:46 PM
wow i havent been posting for a while.. and to see 500+whp is amazing, keep tuning and such.

Dousan_PG
01-27-2004, 01:48 PM
keep on keeping on

i think its great
i sure as hell dont have the budget or facilities to do this, i love reading about it! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-27-2004, 01:52 PM
i never posted anything against the 600hp post..only here where you questioned why people were acting that way...

just trying to shed some light on why some may think that way...

186mph in 5th ..sorry can't get going that fast on the tracks we run on....there is not enough room to wind it out
very silly if you were doing that on the streets in a s13 or s14..must have been very twitchy at those speeds

if you don't care how long the engine lasts ..why are you messing around with 31psi boost only...slap a 200-400 shot wet kit on it and let her have it...the torque increase will be huge...you would probably be able to top out way over 700hp

"we are never content. we never accept the limits that we are told. we never stop progressing."

sounds like your on a mission from god http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

just torturing you http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

adam

gunluvS14
01-27-2004, 01:55 PM
well put!!

yea, talking about Greaser, what happen to him?

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 01:58 PM
silly if you were doing that on the streets in a s13 or s14..must have been very twitchy at those speeds



Nope solid as a rock.

_Nzo_
01-27-2004, 01:58 PM
Very simply I think people may have a negative attitude toward what youre doing because there doesnt seem to be any kind of end result other than just kicking back and enjoying a large number on a dyno plot. This is a little close minded if you dont know anything about dyno tuning and/or pushing the limits of hardware, but so be it, such is life. People need to take the numbers for what theyre worth, these engines are not tuned for reliability at this point, theyre simply to see how much power can be made.

Personally I appreciate what you guys are doing with the engines, but I will be more interested when you can actually apply the knowledge youve gained from these experiences toward a more real-world application.

Keep up the good work.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-27-2004, 01:59 PM
you mean engines....no?




it doesnt conform to their ideaology of what should be done with cars.

masterbunta
01-27-2004, 02:06 PM
Well, the reason I went KAT is because someone else did it first and it was fine, got 261hp, WOW, that is nothing now, but back in the day it was. And we all know now that it will work fine and run perfectly because someone else took the chance, and bolted one onto a KA.

This is called developement and progess, and you guys should appreciate someone else spending all the money to find out the 255lph fuel pump is not enough for this kind of power. I am sure glad its on someone elses dime and not mine, but there is no way I would critise what I am not willing to do myself, not now anyway. When I get the money, I will be the first to ask these guys questions. I sya good job guys and thanks for sharing, you could have kept it all you yourselves. I know I appreciate it.

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 02:06 PM
you mean engines....no?




it doesnt conform to their ideaology of what should be done with cars.






no..i mean cars. some people thingk that if you arent using your car (engine, trans, chassis, susp, aero) for a certain purpose you are wasting it...or that your achievements are less valid than those people who are working toward maximum achievement with the vehicle in that said goal.

Keep trying to twist my words around though...this is really productive to this thread.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-27-2004, 02:10 PM
in your own words..

"yes it has a narrow power band.
no it wont last forever.
yes it will fall out of boost between shifts (unless you flat shift it!!!)
no you cant drift it, take it to a road course, or daily drive it at those power levels."

so what is the purpose of the "car" you are building then....if not just an engine "mount" for your dyno tuning?

fiebru1119
01-27-2004, 02:19 PM
I will be more interested when you can actually apply the knowledge youve gained from these experiences toward a more real-world application.



written by Enthalpy:


the Ironic part is that when you guys have questions about what cams make power where, what different turbos are capable of, what AFR's you should be running, how to set the timign values for your car...or any of the other topics that people like us know becasue we spend so much time on the dyno...



does that answer you question?

Enthalpy, these guys are just missing the point. What you guys are doing on the dyno is, in essense, RESEARCH. How can you predict how the engine will behave at these levels? How much can you boost? How much power is there to be made? This all needs to be layed out before anyone can start contemplating manipulating the powerband and such. I compare you guys to NASA.. people are always arguing how pointless and what a waste the whole program is but little do they realize the technology that put people on the moon revolutionized mass communications, healthcare, and many other areas not directly related to the "space program" per say..

keep up the good work Enthalpy and others.. and dismiss ignorant haters who cant appreciate the hard work put in by these guys

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 02:26 PM
in your own words..

"yes it has a narrow power band.
no it wont last forever.
yes it will fall out of boost between shifts (unless you flat shift it!!!)
no you cant drift it, take it to a road course, or daily drive it at those power levels."

so what is the purpose of the "car" you are building then....if not just an engine "mount" for your dyno tuning?



top speed, street race, drag race. you know that there are actually people who compete in tests of speed that arent on a road course right?

what the Fuc& is your problem anyway? you pull this [censored] in any thread involving someone wiht a car that isnt designed for solo 1 or solo 2. so quick to attack. yet you are always more than willing to take my advise for cam selection and tunign reccomendations on your racecar...

Like i said before...keep on exposing yourself by trying to twist my words around.

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 02:28 PM
And alex (mav1187) this thread was originally intended to be in Advanced 240sx because thats where all the haters are. I dont see why it needed to be moved....but PM me if you have a reason.

thanks,
Scott

ADAM HUTCHINSON
01-27-2004, 02:34 PM
you can't isolate the car/engine from the intended application...they are a package...but that is what is being done

scott, you don't have to be rude..

adam

killjoy
01-27-2004, 02:40 PM
I do not totally agree with Scott, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I know we are all allowed our own opinions. However, I appreciate all the hard work that these guys have done becasue without them I would never learn anything. I don't have the time or resources to test this stuff. I bought a turbo kit that people like Scott (or in my case, Scott) did the tuning and hard labor for. And when I put in my haltech, I went to Scott numerous times with questions becasue he had done one before. He didn't have to help me or answer my questions but he did. And I am in no HP clubs. Once again I do not totally agree with these groups making these high hp cars, but that is becasue I focus on the track. Its becasue that is what I like. I am in no way hating those who do make th ebig numbers though. Becasue without these people I could not learn the stuff I want to know becasue I don't have the resources. Just chipping in so I can shed some light. Keep doing great things guys. I believe we are all on the same side.

sspikey
01-27-2004, 03:26 PM
Frankly i know what Scott is going thru. Its amazing what he and the whole power 240sx club has done. I remember JUST 2 years ago when it was accepted anything over 400whp would not last 2 weeks and that over 15 psi on a stock sr20det block was ridiculous. We didnt believe this and went through 4 different motors trying to get our gig right. Today we have 430whp machines daily driven that run 11.48@124.8 mph in full show trim. Because of testing and pushing the limites as scott and all the guys have we get a better understanding of the motors and see there weaknesses. Parts break faster at there power levels than ours. I think its awesome to know that if one day i get frustrated and want a power machine i could make 500whp on a stock block and itll be so cheap instead of a honda block that would need everything from A to Z redone.

You should be thankful they post mods of their motors and help others do the same without a second thought. 30 years ago these would have been the biggest hidden secrets....So be nice and take the info and thank them. I know it has helped me many times and saved me money reading these kinda threads. Of course with all the haters bashing now though its a waste for me to read them.

On a sidenote for any of you that have built serious radical cars you would know that feeling. The simple good feeling you get when you post up results and people say WOW, Good job man keep it up! nothing feels better. On the other hand getting crap from haters just botters you after you have spent so much time getting such crazy power levels....

Think about it and switch shoes with scott and you would talk very different i can promise you..

Mav1178
01-27-2004, 04:18 PM
And alex (mav1187) this thread was originally intended to be in Advanced 240sx because thats where all the haters are. I dont see why it needed to be moved....but PM me if you have a reason.






My response (in public) is that your thread was non-240SX related to begin with and was intended for PEOPLE that were "hating" on the "club" that you are a part of. Plus your response above this post basically gives me every justification for moving it into OT.

I figured you guys can have an intelligent conversation without using childish conversation, hence the lack of a need for me to lock the thread. But if you and Adam want to have your own discussion please do it in private.

-alex

MaxType 240
01-27-2004, 04:20 PM
You should be thankful they post mods of their motors and help others do the same without a second thought. 30 years ago these would have been the biggest hidden secrets



Amen to that brother, we still have some of these types in the KA-T community despite being the under-appreciated engine of choice. Everyone pulling together in a common purpose certainly smoothes the learning and cost curves.
It costs me more to dyno small little mods but I do it to help others.

Is it better to have the fastest SR/KA 240 that beats all other 240s or is better to have a lot of SR/KA 240s killing other makes and models.

Thanks to all who venture in the dark unknowns!

Jesse

Enthalpy
01-27-2004, 04:31 PM
My response (in public) is that your thread was non-240SX related to begin with and was intended for PEOPLE that were "hating" on the "club" that you are a part of. Plus your response above this post basically gives me every justification for moving it into OT.

I figured you guys can have an intelligent conversation without using childish conversation, hence the lack of a need for me to lock the thread. But if you and Adam want to have your own discussion please do it in private.

-alex



your response is appreciated.

bl200sx
01-27-2004, 04:57 PM
Well there will always be haters, nothing you really can do about that, I've been somewhat hated on for wanting a faster spooling turbo, over a somewhat laggy turbo with more top end HP, everybody will have a opinion right or wrong, good or bad.

I don't have a use for a 500-600hp car, but I think what all the 500+ whp tuners have done has been really a great thing for the Sr commuity, it is a testament to how well the SR was built, and it shows that 300-400WHP SR's are going to hold up much better than was first thought.

Keep up the great hard work guys, it's people like you that have made this 240 commuity great.

killjoy
01-27-2004, 05:11 PM
Wow, Sspikey, you took the thoughts right out of my head an threw them on a webpage. I don't even think you have to go back 30 years. I remember like 10 years ago in high school people wouldn't even show you their motor!

And like bl200SX, I don't need a 500 hp car either, but I am glad there are people out there that do, just to bend peoples minds. It is pretty funny if you think about it. 3 years ago when I got my first SR it was kinda still unheard of not really supported by the aftermarket and 400hp was unheard of. Thanks guys for streching the limits. Ok, not saying anymore on this thread...

Muggy
01-27-2004, 05:16 PM
maybe i do not understand...

why do people need other peoples approval and respect to go on functioning?
who cares what other people think about your (or anyone elses) accomplishments? you should be proud of what has been done.
everyone is entitled to their own opinions, if you cannot take the good with the bad comments maybe you should not post about it.
you (enthalpy) are allowed to think that what glenn has done is awesome, just as everyone else is entitled to their opinions about it (positive or negative).

poeple do not always agree, but i really do not see the need for either side to be so negative.

Kookz
01-27-2004, 05:19 PM
The point is that people want to suckle from the "clubs" nipple of knowledge when they need it, and then drag them down the rest of the time. It's like Atlas Shrugged played out in the SR community.

'97 S14 SE Turbo
01-27-2004, 05:20 PM
Ha, just to think, even for the KA camp, over 4 years ago, the accepted reliability of a stock internal KA was low... Look at it now... 4+ years of abuse, and still keeps on ticking.

As for Greaser, I think he's busy with life. House payments, etc. Life happens. It doesn't always revolve around cars.

masterbunta
01-27-2004, 05:23 PM
.......It doesn't always revolve around cars.


huh, WHAT http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

AZ_Dave
01-27-2004, 06:31 PM
It doesn't really surprise me that this thread needed to be made. The Nissan/240sx community is rather narrowminded...not always in a bad way, but there is a BIG sense of "if you dont drift it, it ain't [censored]". I would say on our local AZ board, that idea is MUCH more prevalent than on FA.
It's sad when us as Nissan owners try to act exclusive of other Nissan owners, simply because of WHAT they want to do with their cars.
I respect drifting, takes a load of talent and practice...but it just isn't for me. Simply stated I didn't buy my 240 to drift...I bought it to drive on the street.

Good words Enthalpy

Jeff240sx
01-27-2004, 07:18 PM
Drifting? What? Is this an anecdote that I'm not looking far enough into?
-Jeff

damianhindley
01-27-2004, 07:23 PM
silly if you were doing that on the streets in a s13 or s14..must have been very twitchy at those speeds



Nope solid as a rock.




Untill someone else can achieve this, i dont want to hear anything. You should be damn proud!!! Congrats man. I think sr20det's wil go the way of the hondas. Remember when people used to say a 300hp honda will never last, now people I know drive them at 400pluss hp all year round with no problems. Without guys like you this would never happen. Keep it up man. Oh and tell your boys to get the chip tuning stuff in so i can send in my ecu to SS. thanks and congrats

Jsquared
01-27-2004, 07:29 PM
I didn't get my 240SX to drift, I got it for handling (road-coursey stuff even though I can't afford track days yet http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) and the power potential of the SR. I got into drifting from knowing other 240SX people while looking for my car, but whatever... my point is, I'm not into drag racing. Never have been, never will be. I don't dislike it the way I dislike NASCAR (I freaking HATE circle track), and I'll go to the strip every now and then just for fun. But it isn't something I will modify a car around. I will never need 500wHP, or anywhere close to that. In fact, I never plan on going bigger than a Big28 or 320-ish wHP, even after all the suspension and exterior is done. But you know where I'm going to turn when I want tuning advice? People like Scott who have tuned a car out of its mind, and for whom 300wHP is as easy as pie. Scott and those guys are doing research on the powerplant, just like someone like Dousan36 does research on suspension/chassis. Without testing, how can you know what turbo/injectors will work for what power or what spring rates are best for grip or whatnot?

shark_tank
01-27-2004, 07:32 PM
really going to agree with enthalpy on this one. really sad. i come here and talk to wayne, scott, and shaun why. because i am building a 400+whp car. this summer it will be 600+whp. scott knows exactly what i am talking about. if you dont like what people do or what they use their car for hold your comments to yourself. i dont really care for drifters but i dont come on here and talk smack about busted cars and shredded aero bumpers, etc. keep it to yourself and none of the cars mentioned were dyno queens. i can speak personally for enthalpy's car. the car was beaten to hell regularly and it just kept going. notice the shiatty walboro gave way.

bottom line, you dont like it, tough, suck it up and shut the hell up http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Deep_South_Chris
01-27-2004, 09:49 PM
scott is dead on

Irie_eyes
01-27-2004, 11:20 PM
All I know is that they are saying they made 500+ hp on the dyno. So I give um credit.
They are not saying they can make 500+ hp on pump gas for street/drift/road race/drag race on a stock motor. That's different...
And I agree with the R&D. If someone doesn't do it, then how does anyone know? And I'm pretty sure a lot of the tuners already know it's just on the dyno so they don't need a lecture. If they are gonna build a car for a purpose they know it's not just about the motor.

240sxTurbo
01-28-2004, 07:06 AM
The point is that people want to suckle from the "clubs" nipple of knowledge when they need it, and then drag them down the rest of the time. It's like Atlas Shrugged played out in the SR community.



I think Scott is smart enough to realize just how the community is. Its a sad fact that you have all types but its a fact of life. Granted venting online is a good way to make yourself feel better, however it doesn't change the fact that they will always hate, and not believe, then turn around and be your best friend. My advice Scott, share if you like, but understand we live in a spoon feed community where most(not all) are out for # 1, and you ain't # 1. I don't share in accomplishments(mainly cause being married I don't have any http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) it admirable that you try really, but at some point you have to do what Scott wants. If you want to post, then let them roll off you back, I know you don't forget people, but the least hassle of all would be surround yourself with people you like and share in a small group(you guys already do that). Its a sad fact that this will be the only way to keep your sanity cause trust me you aren't going to teach anyone anything by venting......they will just move onto someone else.

My $0.02 worth

StealthmodeS14
01-28-2004, 07:06 AM
I think what the likes of Scott @ Secret Services, Shaun @ TNT, Wayne and the folks at Phase2, Ken and the Enjuku guys (with Scott tuning of course),...have done for the Sr community is awe inspiring to say the least. To nearly triple the hp output of a 2.0 motor on stock block is just amazing to me. These guys are pioneers in thier research. Just because it doesn't fit a particulars' needs shouldn't warrant attacks and comments of insult....the infamous "dyno queen" copout comes to mind.

I'm a big fan of the Ka myslef and plan on building on that platform, but if Sr plans were in my future, You better damned well know my ass is driving to Tampa for some SS goodness.....congrats again guys!!

One more note real quick....I think alot of this "hating" that you see going on is (as others have pointed out) the new drifitng craze. If you're not rockin' some crazy one-off jdm parts, ultra rare mesh wheels and a fu**ed up jdm aero bumper....than...."why'd you buy a 240sx for?" seems to be the impression thses folks give. Anything outside of the drifter world is foreign to them which results in afformementioned comments to the folks who have other wants with thier car....all a bunch of ****e if you ask me, but hey...to each thier own.

P.S And that's not to say I don;t like the sport of drifting in the least. Just stating how some folks act in regards to this new "craze"...

-Bill

Canada_s14a
01-28-2004, 08:18 AM
JUST 2 years ago when it was accepted anything over 400whp would not last 2 weeks and that over 15 psi on a stock sr20det block was ridiculous.



Plus, I think its great that american tuners (north american) are doing this. Its common in japan etc it seems to overbuild the engine right from the start. Its nice to see that tuning is being done very differently here in some ways with similar results at an overall lower price. Its interesting to think that in such a short time people who have been doing tuning on these cars for years could be able to call someone up over here and ask them about an engine that people like scott have been playing with seriously for less then 5 years. Thats a remarkable accomplishment. Imagine how the muscle car guys would feel if all of a sudden Top Secret releases a 1500hp NA 5.0 mustang. They'd [censored] thier pants and it would be on like donkey kong... we do the reverse and people are complaining HERE about the accomplishments.

Iregardless, I see the point of what these top HP cars are aimed towards, and would really like to see what they can do on a truly worked engine. you know, tune the way the japanese do for a while, that is, a stroker kit then build out and go for the true balls out power and probably reliability that so many people are chastising the dyno queens for lacking.

Oh well. I know lots of 230hp sr's that blew up... a lot more then I know 500hp sr's that blew up, and under a lot less duress too.

Enthalpy
01-28-2004, 10:23 AM
Oh well. I know lots of 230hp sr's that blew up... a lot more then I know 500hp sr's that blew up, and under a lot less duress too.




Good point!!

steve shadows
01-29-2004, 02:50 PM
One more note real quick....I think alot of this "hating" that you see going on is (as others have pointed out) the new drifitng craze. If you're not rockin' some crazy one-off jdm parts, ultra rare mesh wheels and a fu**ed up jdm aero bumper....than...."why'd you buy a 240sx for?" seems to be the impression thses folks give. Anything outside of the drifter world is foreign to them which results in afformementioned comments to the folks who have other wants with thier car....all a bunch of ****e if you ask me, but hey...to each thier own.

P.S And that's not to say I don;t like the sport of drifting in the least. Just stating how some folks act in regards to this new "craze"...

-Bill




welcome to the world of pain i am in in terms of the direction im taking my car in drift and JDM obsessed 240sx community of southern california...i can even start to begin on the amount of wierd looks or "why arent you drifting it" and "why is your car not slammed on tiens or ji" or why this why that it pisses me off, i wish i was able to post earlier on here because im right there with you scott. I used to mess around in the turns in my car, now i have two s13s so i can have fun both ways, but power plant development, research and engineering is soooo important to motorsports in general and its most of what it has been built on over history. Suspension and powerplant and pushing the limits are all important.

And the power band you have laggy or not is still usable with the propper drivetrain setup and gearing, and race gas is always used in racing, who the hell cares if the car can do "this experiment A" under these limiting conditions, I want to know how the engine will perform under the most demanding situations and read world instances. And yes you can drive a car that runs on race gas on the street, sht you can drive anything on the street as long as local laws allow and you have the know how and tuning experience etc to adjust to different road and test conditions.

I hate this metality that if you cant drift the car and get it sideways with 500whp or keep 100% perfect response and control in a turn that you are worthless in your endeavors. Anyone ever see some of the jun and kei office project silvias? pushing 500-600whp wiht large gt series turbos quite laggy! with the right drivetrain modifications, cam setup and fuel and tuning parameters these types of cars were turning 58 second lap times at(i call it skuba) circuit! and other twisty tracks in japan! wtf are you haters problems.

The real accomplishment is engine testing and pushing the massive amounts of hp so that the automotive commmunity can be enriched and people can have fun. ANd if you want to argue that 500-600whp isnt practical for anything other than a dyno! youR insane! haha its practical for the very form of racing that is so important and practical in itself or any type of road racing. YOu plop a 500-600whp power plant in a car with shorter gearing for the type of road track lightwieght drivetrain components, full racing suspensiona nd a good driver and now you have a supercar that can out do many 100-300k race and exotics sold today.

I think the real thing these haters area afraid of is having the idea or possibility that the nissan cheapo s13 or any s car or any lower priced vehicle can out perform their real dream car, or that the s car is a second class performer compared to a ferarri and that it will never come close, but when scott is dynoing 500-600 hp and doing close to 190-200mphs it scares these exotic loving types of rice boys! this is possibly theory but im not sure, anyways just needed to vent a little also, but im the same way sure i could have a road car or a drift car, but i chose to have my sould black hole of money in engine power, high speed streaks and drag racing because the idea of pushing the limitations of engineering and the power plant appeal to me just as much as increasing driving skill and adding complicated components to make the car "turnable" and streetable whatever the hell that means...

Enthalpy
01-30-2004, 12:49 PM
good post steve!!

PumablK
01-30-2004, 08:08 PM
I see the point of what these top HP cars are aimed towards, and would really like to see what they can do on a truly worked engine.



I too agree with this. I would love to see what you could do with a fully prepped engine. That would be insane. But 500-600whp on a stock block is equally insane. Keep up the good work.

neil

phase2
01-31-2004, 05:20 AM
It will just be matter of time when people starts to see the results and the purpose the high hp'ed cars were built for., but before that dyno always comes first (dyno results). Soon people will start to see more real world track times from these cars as that's the 2nd phase of the game since the 1st phase of dyno session is pretty much done. 2nd phase involves with suspension, chasi, traction, learn how to drive and try to improve what breaks (axles and transmissions comes to mind), so really the 2nd phase is a new ball game which will take time before results can be seen though SRX-7 pretty much is ahead of the progress than the rest. Frankly speaking if our race car ran 13's first time to the track, I wouldn't even waste time posting until we figured out how to get the times lower to a respective level, find the problems and then share with the people on how we achieved the faster time we aimed to achieve. Until we get there, there won't be much updates.

In addition all projects boils down to 1) Time and 2) Financial availbility, it doesn't matter what purpose or type of goal you are building the car for. Give it some time results will be shared soon.

Talk about research and development, we have just boosted 35psi on our not yet blown stock SR blcok maxing out the Blitz boost controller, motor still alive! Thought that was interesting, though probably not that important for most to know.

I do agree though at this stage dyno numbers are getting repetitive where I feel most people are looking forward more towards track results now which I referred to as 2nd phase or Phase 2. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

blkbltpryor
02-01-2004, 09:37 PM
i think its cool what you do enthalpy. i buy from secret services and phase2 cause i feel you guys know your stuff, its obvious you have to experiment to learn more so keep it up.