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View Full Version : Autopower S14 Roll Bar/Cage done...



chris@speedalliance.com
03-05-2004, 07:34 PM
We just finished up with Autopower last week.

So basically one of our S14's was sent there 2 weeks ago, and it just came back. The roll cage was removed...and we will be reinstalling it very soon. They are jigging it up right now.

Basically...they will have all the different setups available.
- Street Bar: Standard rear half bar
- Race Bar: Like the Street bar but with a cross bar and harness bar
- Bolt-in Cage: self explained

More info will be provided as soon as I talk with them again.

THanks
Chris

asad
03-05-2004, 08:03 PM
Awesome Chris. I don't even have an S14, but that's good news for the 'community' http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Asad

oneslows13
03-05-2004, 09:24 PM
do you have any pics?thanks!

rocksco_ultraPEZ
03-05-2004, 09:31 PM
AWSOME!!!! good news for us s14 owners!!!
Autopower cages are bada$$ and reasonably priced http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dfw_alan
03-05-2004, 10:04 PM
Thanks Chris, definitely looking forward to a cage in mine.

Blurple240
03-05-2004, 10:07 PM
Awesome!

I'd really like to see pics. I'm especially interested in the mounting points for the hoop and head/seat clearance.

-john

Forum_Lurker
03-05-2004, 11:50 PM
Thats great, but any info about having a Roll Bar for S13's?

asad
03-06-2004, 12:03 AM
Thats great, but any info about having a Roll Bar for S13's?



Autopower has made roll bars for S13's for, like...ever.

Asad

BadMoJo
03-06-2004, 01:11 AM
Sweet!! Thank you Chris!!

But the question I have is this.... What about us S14 owners with sunroofs?? Will there be one made for us as well?

Vapor
03-06-2004, 09:08 AM
yeah, i hope it is made for S14 SE's so us with those don't get the shaft.

Steeles
03-06-2004, 09:35 AM
yeah thats great news.. provided they made clearence for those of us with Sunroofs... Good Job chris!

domesticGONEimport
03-08-2004, 02:05 AM
Can someone link me up..i got a 90 240 hatch and i wanna be nice and safe when i go rolling ass over tea kettle, no seriously i been looking for a cage and was thinking about making my own but id rather see some...sooo links please http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

domesticGONEimport
03-08-2004, 02:13 AM
nevermind, i googled it...unless someones got the hook up or wants to go in on a group buy,,,,drop me a line......

fos240
03-08-2004, 12:33 PM
yeah thats great news.. provided they made clearence for those of us with Sunroofs... Good Job chris!



doesn't matter for you. your car will never move again anyway. is there a release date for the bars/cage? and like everyone else i REALLY want to see some pics. pleeeeeeeeease.

frankie

NismoS13
03-08-2004, 12:41 PM
To those of you who have Autopower roll cages, how's the quality and fitment? Also, what are the advantages to have a welded cage vs. a bolt-in, just stiffer? Thanks.

asad
03-08-2004, 12:48 PM
nevermind, i googled it...unless someones got the hook up or wants to go in on a group buy,,,,drop me a line......



There was/is a group buy going on at www.dgtrials.com (http://www.dgtrials.com) . Go to their board and check it out.

Asad

Steeles
03-08-2004, 12:53 PM
doesn't matter for you. your car will never move again anyway. is there a release date for the bars/cage? and like everyone else i REALLY want to see some pics. pleeeeeeeeease.

frankie


Stay off the internet! tool. not like yours is doing much better http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mav1178
03-08-2004, 12:59 PM
But the question I have is this.... What about us S14 owners with sunroofs?? Will there be one made for us as well?



If it's anything like the S13, don't worry about it.

Autopower cages are known for "easy fitment", which, unlike the Japanese bolt-in cages, do not run tight tolerances to the trim. You'd have (I'm guessing) at least 1" of room between the cage and the trim pieces.

Good times, good times.

-alex

Kim_Jong_Il
03-08-2004, 04:16 PM
www.ioportracing.com (http://www.ioportracing.com) usually has autopower at good prices.

Frankie posted again, damn he must have made it out of his maze of "parts" cars. You would make Algernon proud, but don't get the operation. NO! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

McGuirk
03-08-2004, 04:18 PM
Woot Woot! Awesome *Cheers for S14 Community*

chris@speedalliance.com
03-12-2004, 06:42 PM
Hey all...

Sorry...i've been lurking lately! hehe...

Well...i need to get to Autopower to take pics of the bar. i never got to see the bar in the car cause they yanked it to jig it.

Looks like those bars are 3 weeks out...in production!

It's awesome for the S14'ers!
Chris
-just doing my part...

thoraxe
03-12-2004, 09:34 PM
In case anyone is wondering, the whole reason that AP finally decided that they would do the S14 cage/bars is because we (DGTrials) basically bugged them about it constantly and convinced them to do so.

We ran a group buy on their roll bars a while back and it was very successful. The AutoPower products might not be as tight as the Japanese stuff, but they are made for USDM cars with the proper direction for all bracing, they aren't crappy gussets or hinges or joints (meaning they actually provide SIGNIFICANT structural rigidity increases), they are cheap as crap, they get made fairly quickly, and they are very easy to install.

I saw the Cusco (I think) cages in the Signal drift cars -- those cages are garbage. The tubing is extremely tiny and I don't recall there being any door bars or cross brace. They're not even close to SCCA legal and probably wouldn't do much in a roll over anyway.

DGTrials and IOPort Racing both sell the cages and roll bars, and there are other places that sell them as well.

Vapor
03-13-2004, 09:23 AM
so when do they expect to have these available? I need one ASAP!

chmercer
03-17-2004, 12:08 AM
uhhh, just so you guys know, kirkracing has an s14 bar, cage, etc etc.

BadMoJo
03-17-2004, 01:39 AM
got a link?

JagdStealth
03-17-2004, 09:28 AM
I saw the Cusco (I think) cages in the Signal drift cars -- those cages are garbage. The tubing is extremely tiny and I don't recall there being any door bars or cross brace. They're not even close to SCCA legal and probably wouldn't do much in a roll over anyway.




The tubing is smaller because it's made out of chromoly, which is much stronger than the mild steel that Autopower uses. Cusco cages are far better then autopower, but you have to pay for it. If you must have something big, you can buy Cusco in mild steel as well and then you can have a "thick" cage. They also come with cross braces and side impact bars. A simple google search would tell you that. The Signal cars have side impact bars, I don't know which ones you saw, perhaps they were unbolted for display on the street?

Autopower cages are great products for the price, but don't say that Cusco is crap without even knowing what it's made out of.

Kim_Jong_Il
03-17-2004, 09:38 AM
The fact that the cusco cage bars are bolted together rather than welded makes them a problem in the US.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
03-17-2004, 09:46 AM
guess you are not up on roll cage design issues...most sanctioning bodies are going to ban the use of chromoly cages..and force DOM mild steel to be used...

these "bolt in " cages are crap IMO

do it right ..go to a local fabricator and get a custom designed welded in cage...only way to do it right

gunluvS14
03-17-2004, 11:03 AM
great news for S14 owners http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Blurple240
03-17-2004, 12:16 PM
do it right ..go to a local fabricator and get a custom designed welded in cage...only way to do it right



I disagree with you Adam. A mass-manufactured cage will fit better and be easier to install. I also think it's hilarious that just because you see the term bolt-on, you think one can't weld the the damn thing down anyway.

I wish autopower sold their bars in 1.75 DOM. Ah well.

I have an email in to Kirk Racing too, but I've never heard of them having an S14 rollbar. I hope it's similar in design to the fd3s rollbar...they have 2 versions: one mounted behind the seat, and one that installs in the rear buckets. Be nice to have some extra headroom for my huge head.

-john

chmercer
03-17-2004, 12:18 PM
I saw the Cusco (I think) cages in the Signal drift cars -- those cages are garbage. The tubing is extremely tiny and I don't recall there being any door bars or cross brace. They're not even close to SCCA legal and probably wouldn't do much in a roll over anyway.




The tubing is smaller because it's made out of chromoly, which is much stronger than the mild steel that Autopower uses. Cusco cages are far better then autopower, but you have to pay for it. If you must have something big, you can buy Cusco in mild steel as well and then you can have a "thick" cage. They also come with cross braces and side impact bars. A simple google search would tell you that. The Signal cars have side impact bars, I don't know which ones you saw, perhaps they were unbolted for display on the street?

Autopower cages are great products for the price, but don't say that Cusco is crap without even knowing what it's made out of.



cusco "cages" are piss. you would be safer in a rollover without anything than you would be with thoes stupid monkey bars.

Mav1178
03-17-2004, 12:36 PM
I saw the Cusco (I think) cages in the Signal drift cars -- those cages are garbage. The tubing is extremely tiny and I don't recall there being any door bars or cross brace. They're not even close to SCCA legal and probably wouldn't do much in a roll over anyway.




The tubing is smaller because it's made out of chromoly, which is much stronger than the mild steel that Autopower uses. Cusco cages are far better then autopower, but you have to pay for it. If you must have something big, you can buy Cusco in mild steel as well and then you can have a "thick" cage. They also come with cross braces and side impact bars. A simple google search would tell you that. The Signal cars have side impact bars, I don't know which ones you saw, perhaps they were unbolted for display on the street?

Autopower cages are great products for the price, but don't say that Cusco is crap without even knowing what it's made out of.



cusco "cages" are piss. you would be safer in a rollover without anything than you would be with thoes stupid monkey bars.



And is this based on experience and/or fact, rather than speculation?

All jokes aside, it is all about *which* Cusco cage you order. The ones most commonly seen in the U.S. are the Cusco chromoly cages, yet no one orders the Safety21 steel cages because it is not as well-known as the more flashy Cusco counterparts.

Yes Autopower cages are thicker, but (at least for S13 hatchback) the fitment takes up TOO much room in the rear of the vehicle. If it is fitted into a coupe there is almost no room to carry any wheels or tools or even just fold the seats down all the way without hitting the cage. For someone like me who likes to take extra wheels to the track in the backseat area, that is completely unacceptable.

This seems to be an issue brought up every few months.

-alex

ADAM HUTCHINSON
03-17-2004, 12:37 PM
can you show me that these bolt in cages meet or exceed FIA specs needed for racing.... nuff said

Mav1178
03-17-2004, 12:42 PM
can you show me that these bolt in cages meet or exceed FIA specs needed for racing.... nuff said



Can you show me how a Cusco cage cannot hold up in a rollover scenario? That was my original point and please do not point out FIA or other standards to make the case that a cage would be sufficient to hold up in a rollover.

I got mine for rollover protection at the track while running a harness. Not to mention I can still use the backseat area for carrying items needed at the track. Nuff said.

-alex

ADAM HUTCHINSON
03-17-2004, 12:50 PM
ok..lets start...

what is the baseplate material thickness and sq area?

if it is bolted in...are you using a backing plate on the other side?

can you prove that the design can withstand the sideloads required? does it have diagonal bracing...are the welds normalized...is it drilled for inspection hole? ect..ect...ect...

soon2besr20
03-17-2004, 12:58 PM
There is a place near philly the makes roll cages. The dont have a specific model for the s13 but i called them and theyre going to make one for me. Ive seen their workmanship and its awesome and the cages are relatively inexpensive their site is http://www.swracecars.com/.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
03-17-2004, 01:08 PM
the whole point of cages and roll bars is safety..so if you can't prove they are safe then whats the point...how do you know that where ever they were made in china they normalized the welds....so that when your car does go over those welds don't all just crack and the "safety cage" cuts you in half instead of protecting you? the POINT is you won't know until it happens....then its a bit too late no?

unless you have documented evidence of materials and qualified roll cage /bar design you can't be sure of anything..thats why FIA and other sanctioning bodies are so stringent....

and thats why these "offshore bolt in bars/cages" are crap

shoes59
03-17-2004, 01:22 PM
I have an email in to Kirk Racing too, but I've never heard of them having an S14 rollbar.


I just ordered a 4 point from Kirk Racing http://www.kirkracing.com/ @ $335 plus shipping. The design sounds very similar to the Autopower unit I had in my B13.

I don't much care about SCCA approval on bars or cages because I'm not into sanctioned racing. I'm an open track ***** and an HPDE instructor for a local organization. I'm stongly against the use of harnesses without some sort of roll over protection.

For my application a bolt in unit is more than adequate.

ADAM HUTCHINSON
03-17-2004, 01:39 PM
it even says this about the autopower bars!!!!

from io port web site....

http://www.ioportracing.com/faq/rollbar.htm

"When can DOM tubing be an advantage over ERW?

DOM is now required for a roll cage by most organizations, so if you are buying a race roll bar and want to upgrade in the future to a full cage, then buy your roll bar in DOM. However, DOM is a more expensive tubing, so expect to pay more.
When should I choose Chrome-Moly?

Autopower no longer offers Chrome-moly tubing because SCCA has changed their rules to allow mild steel tubing."

shoes59
03-17-2004, 01:43 PM
DOM is now required for a roll cage by most organizations, so if you are buying a race roll bar and want to upgrade in the future to a full cage, then buy your roll bar in DOM. However, DOM is a more expensive tubing, so expect to pay more.



Kirk Racing offers both DOM and ERW. DOM is only $30 more. The choice was obvious.

Society_Mike
03-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Like Alex pointed out above, Cusco offers their normal Saftey21 cage which is more expensive, safer, and more popular. They make it for the Japan market to meet Japanese regulations. However, the Japanese regulations are nearly identical to the US standards in every way.
Experience? How about more then 1 occasion of witnessing a rollover with these cages, not just roll overs, but nasty crashes. These Safety21 cages are in every drift, grip, race car in Japan just about. They ahve been proven for YEARS over and over again. Just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't meet your standards.
I have seen it first hand. My close friend rolled over in a KP, the roof came down and wrapped around the BOLT-IN roll cage. I saw an MR2 fly off the circuit at Nikko, hop a ditch and flip rear over front, the car was shaped like a banana but the area where the cage was, was straight. The cage was straight too.
WE TOO worry about these types of things, so when we get the chance to see up close the results, we make sure we take a look. We all have these cages in our cars. Remember when my S13 was run over by a semi? Would have been alot worse without the cage. None of it broke, not even bolts.
They come with 1/4" thick steel backing plates, as well as directions on where to weld if you wish.
Oh.. also saw a Chaser get T-bones by another Chaser at some drag races here, both had these cages. The front end of the 2nd chaser took most of the damage. The door was literally wrapped around the cage, but the frame of the car actually bent and the impact pushed the frame AND the cage (front left point of cage) towards the inside atleast 4".
Like I said, these cages are very popular. They are not cheap, however there are cheaper alternatives. The Cusco one is made here, the last I heard.

chmercer
03-18-2004, 08:45 PM
um, the steel saftey21 cage is cheaper, being made of steel. unless im mistaken.

sorry i was pretty harsh with my earlier post trashing these cages. Here are some more logical reasons as to why i dislike them.

1) the "street" cages with the bars that bend around the dash do not have near the same structural integrity as the ones that run through the dash. This is obviously not the type of cage you are talking about, just thought id bring this to attention in case anyone was looking at getting one of the "wimpy" cages that you dont have to cut your dash.

2) heim joints are not nearly as structurally sound as slip fit pipes, it takes MUCH more force to break a slip fit joint than a heim joint.

3) no diagonal crossbrace in the main hoop. Pretty much every racing body i have ever heard of in the USA requires a diagonal crossbrace.

4) no harnessbar. Harnessbars move the shoulder mounting position of a harness closer to your shoulders, shortening the length of material needed. The less material, the less there is to stretch out or otherwise deform. excessivley stretched seatbelts could put your body in an inopportune position during a crash.

5) on the 7 and 8 point versions, the diagonal crossbrace is on the wrong side for USDM vehicles. It supports the passenger side instead of the driver.

MS13
03-19-2004, 12:33 PM
Here are some more logical reasons as to why i dislike them.




3) no diagonal crossbrace in the main hoop. Pretty much every racing body i have ever heard of in the USA requires a diagonal crossbrace.

4) no harnessbar. Harnessbars move the shoulder mounting position of a harness closer to your shoulders, shortening the length of material needed. The less material, the less there is to stretch out or otherwise deform. excessivley stretched seatbelts could put your body in an inopportune position during a crash.

5) on the 7 and 8 point versions, the diagonal crossbrace is on the wrong side for USDM vehicles. It supports the passenger side instead of the driver.



you can get the diagonal cross brace and the horizontal bar for harness for any configuration, you do not have to buy the 7 or 8 point ones.

http://www.cusco.co.jp/04ctl/rol_pdf/roll_c.pdf
Please read that, you can have a cross (X) brace if you want. Besides, the diagonal car broke the square into 2 triangles already, even if the bar runs the other way.

http://www.cusco.co.jp/04ctl/rol_pdf/roll_b.pdf
And read this, the cage is compliant with the JAF and FIA standard. edit: They also added that you need to check the rule book to reflect if you are compliant with the regulations that change every year.

chmercer
03-19-2004, 02:35 PM
like i said, there is no diagonal crossbrace in the main hoop. There is a diagonal bar going between the rear legs for some reason, but not one in the main hoop. Im not sure if you could add in this if you want or not, but even if you could, it would be using some kind of joint method that is far weaker than it being welded in. Same goes for the harness bar.

What does FIA and JAF standards have to do with the United States? I will not go so far as to say all cusco/saftey 21 cages do not meet specifications, but a great many of the configurations offered by cusco fail standards by scca, nasa, etc.

MS13
03-19-2004, 05:58 PM
What does FIA and JAF standards have to do with the United States? I will not go so far as to say all cusco/saftey 21 cages do not meet specifications, but a great many of the configurations offered by cusco fail standards by scca, nasa, etc.




What you said before was that the cusco stuff are piss. All I did is to point out to you that it can be compliant to FIA and JAF standards (due to regulations that change, a hard thing to guarantee), meaning it could meets safety standard created by 2 official bodies. Now whether or not those safety standards are better or worse than standards of US racing sanctioning body, I do not know. When you made a blanket statement that they are piss, you are not refering to the fact that they are not SCCA or NASA compliant, you are slaming it with no basis.

There are many standards in the world, european or japanese lives aren't any less important than the ones in the US. And in the end, a saved life is a saved life. While owning a cusco cage may not qualify you to run at SCCA or NASA event as you suggested, that has no bearing on whether it will save you when roll or not. Also, what was once OK in SCCA may not be ok now either, even if it was built by a local fabricator built to the standard rules at the time.



cusco "cages" are piss. you would be safer in a rollover without anything than you would be with thoes stupid monkey bars.



Please keep your biased and ill-constructed comment about "piss" to yourself. You are not adding any value.

thoraxe
03-19-2004, 11:32 PM
There are many standards in the world, european or japanese lives aren't any less important than the ones in the US.



Of course they are less important.



And in the end, a saved life is a saved life.


Not if it's a damn [censored], or worse yet, a kraut!



Please keep your biased and ill-constructed comment about "piss" to yourself. You are not adding any value.



I'll just piss on you.

I think the overwhelming point is being missed here. I made a comment about the "crappy" chromoly tiny gusseted/jointed Cusco cages that were on the Signal cars when they stopped by to play at Drift Out Wednesday. IIRC (note the correctly part), they did not have cross braces or door bars installed.

In addition:
Cusco != Safety21
Japan = RHD
US = LHD
Cusco, Safety21, and other JDM cages = backwards
Autopower = cheap
Roll cage/bar = you probably shouldn't have people in your rear seats anyway, so wtf do you have them still in the car for?

And, to sum it all up:
Autopower = awesome for finally making an S14 cage.

So how about everyone STFU? Maybe we can use some more TLAs while we're at it.

Sheesh.

RDM_II
03-20-2004, 08:32 AM
And, to sum it all up:
Autopower = awesome for finally making an S14 cage.
So how about everyone STFU? Maybe we can use some more TLAs while we're at it.
Sheesh.




I'm glad that Autopower got with the program and got an S14 bar made, it's been a long time coming and there's a lot of people who will appreciate it. However to learn that you had a hand in getting it going makes me sick, and if I ever bought one, I'd drive up to NY and wrap it around your thick skull you stupid prick. You have got to be biggest cuocksucker the 240 world has ever seen. Maybe that ego of yours will swell even bigger and give you a brain hemmorhage.
You come on here with your typical 'I am the 240SX/drift/race god and you all need to bow down before me and kiss my ass' attitude that you've always had, even from back in the days of the original amarok list where you pissed off so many people with that crap that a lot of us unsubscribed. You're saying that YOU are the sole reason Autopower is now making the S14 bar, and that we need to blow you off for this great thing you've done for us. BS. You're not the only person responsible, you're not the only person who could have done it, and it could/would have happened without you, even if that ego of yours doesn't believe it.
The bottomline is Cusco makes a great cage for it's purpose, based off their other products, pictures, and real owners reviews. It's sold in Japan to Japanese enthusiasts, meeting their requirements, and nothing more. If Cusco wanted to come into the US market bad enough, they'd change the designs to suit our needs, but they have plenty of business in their home country and it's not worth the R&D to hopefully sell a few dozen of them here. How many JDM cars have sunroofs? How tall are average car owners in Japan? There's no basis to build a better suited cage for the US. Even then, not everyone in the US participates in SCCA, and not everyone who buys a cage cares about the regulations that the US racing sanctions require, so for those people the Cusco/Safety 21 cages are perfect.
Autopower saw a market for the rest of those potential customers and made a bar for them, simple. Get off your pedestal.

chmercer
03-20-2004, 10:27 AM
What you said before was that the cusco stuff are piss.

Please keep your biased and ill-constructed comment about "piss" to yourself. You are not adding any value.






sorry i was pretty harsh with my earlier post trashing these cages. Here are some more logical reasons as to why i dislike them.

1) the "street" cages with the bars that bend around the dash do not have near the same structural integrity as the ones that run through the dash. This is obviously not the type of cage you are talking about, just thought id bring this to attention in case anyone was looking at getting one of the "wimpy" cages that you dont have to cut your dash.

2) heim joints are not nearly as structurally sound as slip fit pipes, it takes MUCH more force to break a slip fit joint than a heim joint.

3) no diagonal crossbrace in the main hoop. Pretty much every racing body i have ever heard of in the USA requires a diagonal crossbrace.

4) no harnessbar. Harnessbars move the shoulder mounting position of a harness closer to your shoulders, shortening the length of material needed. The less material, the less there is to stretch out or otherwise deform. excessivley stretched seatbelts could put your body in an inopportune position during a crash.

5) on the 7 and 8 point versions, the diagonal crossbrace is on the wrong side for USDM vehicles. It supports the passenger side instead of the driver.



OK?? I could go edit out my snap judgment post, but im not a wuss.

Mav1178
03-22-2004, 02:38 AM
Since people don't like to talk nicely, this thread will be locked.

Chris start another thread if you feel like it, and to everyone else keep the ****talking to yourselves.

-alex