Automatic Coupe w/Vortech Gets 352.58 HP Now 387!!

[dfw_danny]

We just did a Vortech upgrade on a 5A coupe with a Borla exhaust. We took it to 9 pounds of boost and did a reprogram on the ECM.We (Grubbs) are the only Vortech authorized installer in the US for this upgrade on Infinitis.


I apologize for the poor quality of the printout but that is the fault of the Dyno shop and not us.

Note that the outside temperature was over 96 degrees. The HP was 352.58 and the torque was 289.87 pounds.

http://secure.grubbs.com/coupesc_dyno.jpg

[timware]

*snicker*

[zimbo]

I'm assuming that the 353HP number is at 7100 rpms so we're talking about 10psi, right?

--Steve

[VQDOOD]

How did you guys mod the ECU? Technosquare or did you guys reflash yourself?

[dfw_danny]

How did you guys mod the ECU? Technosquare or did you guys reflash yourself?



We do our own programming.

[DaBaur]

This is with an essentially stock engine? OEM pistons etc.?
And... this engine will last HOW long??? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[damen]

is this using the stock exhaust?

[theeggman1]

The engine itself is capable of 800hp. I think it will last a long, long time. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Pics of my car (http://forums.ownersclubusa.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=43&page=0&view=collapsed& sb=5&o=&fpart=1#43)

[timware]

800 on stock VQ internals? You sure about that?

[ColdFusion]

Since your dealership installed the vortech, if anything goes wrong, will the car still be under full factory warranty or will it be void??

[GookusMaximus]

I believe the aluminum block for the VQs are only good for around 400hp without extra internal modification.

[VQDOOD]

Well he said "capable" that could mean a lot of stuff.. err with a lot of mods. But on an AT, somehow I doubt it.

[Riffster]

The engine and even the AT transmission might be able to withstand a lot more than 400 HP, but for how long?

The AT transmission in the coupe is the same as in the Q45, which produces 340 HP and 330 ft-lbs of torque. Anything beyond that is not calcluated in the normal life-span of the tranny and that pretty much means you will be shortening the lifespan of the transmission as you get further and further out of the window of performance for which the transmission was built.

Strengthened internals would be needed to extend the life of the coupe (and also for performance.) Forged pistons and stronger cams are just some of the stuff needed. Add a Level 10 Auto racing tranny (or an equivalent) and you're talking about spending up to twice of the cost of the FI you put in!

The question isn't whether you can do a lot of stuff to the VQ - the real question is, for how long will you get to do that stuff to it???

- Riff

[DaBaur]

Which was basically my point. I have a LOT of respect for Grubbs and what they do. But I become a little concerned when anyone (especially a dealer) starts throwing out high HP figures for our G with FI without adding in additional details concerning the possible negative aspects this type of modification can have on a stock engine. 6psi of intercooled boost- ok. 9? 10? Umm... Cutting it kind of close, don't you think?
Granted I'm old and jaded, but I've also built enough engines from the ground up to know that any mod which significantly increases HP to a stock engine can have really impressive results--- right up to the moment you hear a loud BANG under the hood and the smoke comes rolling out (I'm still trying to find a couple of engine parts I shot through the hood of my supercharged '68 Roadrunner in Abilene, Tx. back in 1979.) http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Robbie]

DFW - thanks for the info, impressive numbers for the conditions. Did the coupe go out the door with 9 lbs boost?

[gob]

Err? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Totally off the subject, but why does it say "Gay G35" on the dyno chart?

[SukairainKupe]

Err? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Totally off the subject, but why does it say "Gay G35" on the dyno chart?


Happy coupe? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[dfw_danny]

Which was basically my point. I have a LOT of respect for Grubbs and what they do. But I become a little concerned when anyone (especially a dealer) starts throwing out high HP figures for our G with FI without adding in additional details concerning the possible negative aspects this type of modification can have on a stock engine. 6psi of intercooled boost- ok. 9? 10? Umm... Cutting it kind of close, don't you think?
Granted I'm old and jaded, but I've also built enough engines from the ground up to know that any mod which significantly increases HP to a stock engine can have really impressive results--- right up to the moment you hear a loud BANG under the hood and the smoke comes rolling out (I'm still trying to find a couple of engine parts I shot through the hood of my supercharged '68 Roadrunner in Abilene, Tx. back in 1979.) http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif



The engine, according to the engineers, can handle this amount of HP plus much more just as it comes assembled from the factory. The biggest problems arise, again according to the engineers, when boost is added to the engine without making changes to fuel system thereby causing it to run too lean and causing piston damage.

The people that have spent the money to have these modifications done have also spent the time and effort to go through the entire learning process of what we do and why we do it. We receive many request for modifications that we will not do.

The comparision you draw between a 79 Plymouth push rod engine, with no computers, no fuel control systems and not even rev limiters, and the 3.5 liter dual overhead cam that is loaded with technology is laughable.

This quote, "I become a little concerned when anyone (especially a dealer) starts throwing out high HP figures for our G with FI without adding in additional details concerning the possible negative aspects this type of modification can have on a stock engine," is also way off the mark.

First, as I stated above the people that are actually investing the money are well informed and educated about what is being done and why. Secondly, these numbers are not for "our G" they are for their G...the ones that spend the money.

This may sound a little harsh but we spend a lot time, money and effort to do things the right way. We have a long list of satisfied customers and negative remarks by uninformed people tend to make my blood pressure rise.

By the way...when is the last time you sat down and discussed HP modifications with an engine design engineer?

[A_Pex]

DFW...

Thanks for the information!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just bought my AT Coupe, and was pleasantly supprised to see those numbers. Is Grubbs covering the modifications in the owners warranty? If so/not what are the modifications and stipulations to having such a mod installed by your team?

What information can you offer us with regard to the actual HP/Torque numbers the Engineers said this engine could handle reliably with AND without changing the internals?

I've been working with GM motors since I was a kid, and always followed the old addage, "there's no replacement for displacement." That said, anytime we started to push the 450HP & 400 lb/ft mark (even in thos behemoths) in the old muscle cars (my favorite was my '69 GTO) we had to start taking long hard looks at the ability for the rest of the drivetrain to manage the increase. What, if any, modifications do the Engineers recommend for the G once it pushes the limits of it's available HP?

Also, any information on "bang for the buck" would be very helpful.

Thanks again for keeping us in the loop. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[dfw_danny]

There is simply far too much info to go into here on a discussion board. Infiniti has a warranty and the different vendors have warranties. Grubbs Infiniti has no warranties but performs warranty work on behalf of all of them.

Wer have discussed this in previous posts and it will again prompt opinionated responses but unless a manufacturer can show that any failure is due DIRECTLY to any modification they cannot deny warranty. That is the federal law under the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. You might want to tale the time to read this. (http://secure.grubbs.com/perf_policy.htm)

[gob]

Err? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Totally off the subject, but why does it say "Gay G35" on the dyno chart?


Happy coupe? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



Hehe, http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif I can hear the childish insults already.

"Oh yeah! Well, your car is gay!"

[Baby_G]

DFW,

I never understand why people don't ask the important questions: How much would this mod cost me?

[dfw_danny]

DFW,

I never understand why people don't ask the important questions: How much would this mod cost me?



Here is the really important answer http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif "It depends!" It depends on punds of boost, polished or plain, etc. For specifics contact John Isbell jisbell@grubbs.com or call him tollfree 888-447-8227 ext 4114

[Rabbid_Racer]

As for you dodge I believe that same motor could be found in the dodge garbage trucks for that year as well as your grandpas RV. Comparing these 2 vehicle is like comparing FOOTBALL to GOLF both are sports one a little more refined than the other. Your talking about engines that had tollerances of 30 thousands or more and could come from the factory not ballanced and with a twisted crank. Not so with todays engines as these engines are refined and are zero tolereance engines. your also talking about a market were 99% of the time the best peromance parts happen to be stock parts.

As far as engine were it's only going to fail as fast as you neglect it. Remeber this isn't the 70's were dealing in a market were Hondas reign KING and you old bigblock is just an orniment. Welcome to the new age of hotrodding. 20 years ago or even 5-6 years ago no one would have thought it would have been possible to see 500hp out of a 1600cc honda block with basically stock interanls now it's done
basically ever day

[Rabbid_Racer]

Also keep in mind that Grubbs at this point is the only!! Vortech distributer that is authorized to install the 9lb pulley on this system and be able to retain the vortech 3yr warranty. With the manufacturer having that kind of confidence how can you go wrong???

[Riffster]

Danny -

I hope you realize that my points about FI and the VQ engine still stand, but they were NOT aimed at Grubbs. They are aimed at people who take the G and either don't properly tune it, or boost the FI for HP levels WAY over what the internals and (in the case of the 5AT) the transmission, can handle.

I know Grubbs doesn't do this - you have always been very careful to protect the customer (and yourselves) from irresponsible claims and overzealous modding.

Q45tech (amongst others) has signalled caution when boosting the output of the VQ - primarily for the auto tranny (as I stated above.) But the further up the ladder you push HP and torque, and the harder you drive your coupe or sedan, you have to at least consider the possibility of premature failure of components due to stresses being placed on them that they weren't designed to handle.

Again, I do not doubt Grubbs has met with people in order to have as much reliability as possible from any Infiniti that they modify with FI.

But I also do not doubt that anyone who runs up the boost, will also run up their chances of engine and/or drivetrain failure in a period earlier than what would be expected from a stock implementation.

- Riff

[dfw_danny]

Riff,

You are correct about how we do it and the caution we take. Part of that includes discussiond with the owners regarding what they should and should not do.

We have been doing the coupe mods almost from the day it was introduced in one form or another. Cars have been brought in to us from all parts of the country including Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, California and Chicago.

To my knowledge the only problem we have encounted to date was on a ProCharger unit when after we did the install and the tuning the customer took the car and did some furthr mods without telling us in advance. One of the mods was a plenum change which changed everything and a problem was created. We got it repaired and everybody was happy.

It is really important to understand, and try really hard to convey this to the customer, is that we can do the install and tune it perfectly but if you make any changes after that we cannot promise that problems will not occur.

So far people listen and have followed our instructions thereby averting any problems.

[zimbo]

We (Grubbs) are the only Vortech authorized installer in the US for this upgrade on Infinitis.




I'm sorry. I was going to let this go but I can't. This statement is total bullsh!t. Vortech has no authorized installers. They only have authorized resellers. There's no freaking way that Grubbs is the only installer allowed to install the 9lb pulley and retain the Vortech warranty.

--Steve

[Sinurgy]

As for you dodge I believe that same motor could be found in the dodge garbage trucks for that year as well as your grandpas RV. Comparing these 2 vehicle is like comparing FOOTBALL to GOLF both are sports one a little more refined than the other. Your talking about engines that had tollerances of 30 thousands or more and could come from the factory not ballanced and with a twisted crank. Not so with todays engines as these engines are refined and are zero tolereance engines. your also talking about a market were 99% of the time the best peromance parts happen to be stock parts.

As far as engine were it's only going to fail as fast as you neglect it. Remeber this isn't the 70's were dealing in a market were Hondas reign KING and you old bigblock is just an orniment. Welcome to the new age of hotrodding. 20 years ago or even 5-6 years ago no one would have thought it would have been possible to see 500hp out of a 1600cc honda block with basically stock interanls now it's done
basically ever day



I'm pretty sure he was just making a joke, no need to take the comparison so seriously. Regardless, don't be raggin on cars like a '68 Roadrunner! If he had the Hemi version that thing was pulling low 13's stock IN NINTEEN SIXTEY EIGHT! If you modded a '68 Roadrunner, 500hp in your Civic isn't going to cut it! It's awesome what they can do with smaller displacement engines today but show a little respect for a generation of vehicles that started it all and 40 years later can still compete. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[dfw_danny]

We (Grubbs) are the only Vortech authorized installer in the US for this upgrade on Infinitis.




I'm sorry. I was going to let this go but I can't. This statement is total bullsh!t. Vortech has no authorized installers. They only have authorized resellers. There's no freaking way that Grubbs is the only installer allowed to install the 9lb pulley and retain the Vortech warranty.

--Steve



Steve you are actually WRONG! And yes we are the only authorized installer of the 9 lb pulley and not void the Vortech warranty.

[zimbo]

Here is a direct quote from Steve Padfield at Vortech Engineering as posted yesterday on the ********************** forum:


Hey all....
I just want to pipe in here and say there is no "authorized" pulley change for the Z. We keep tabs on the pulleys by putting "paint" on the pulley that is attached to the blower, if this is missing or tampered with, no warranty. With this new jackshaft setup that we have for the Corvettes and 350Z/G35, you can change the size of the jackshaft pulley to get the same result without messing with the paint. This is how to get around the 3-year warranty scare. However, there are ways to tell if a supercharger has been overspun. In additon, please be warned that messing with pulleys could damage your motor and adding more boost without changing the SS box tune could also damage the motor. I am not looking to burst any bubbles, but I don't like to see someone saying "authorized" when it is not.




--Steve

[DaBaur]

Thanks Sinurgy- good points. However I wasn't making a joke. My '68 Roadrunner came stock with the 383cid, but since I raced most weekends at Steamboat Mountain Dragway, I replaced the stock engine one year later with a '69 custom 440 magnum 6pak- bored .030 over, 10.5:1 forged pistons, forged crank, ported and polished custom heads, Dana rearend and custom built headers. My Uncle, who custom-built race engines for the circuit both balanced and blueprinted the engine for me as a birthday present (wonderful man and sorely missed.) The end result was something like 520hp w/ 640ft.lbs torque. It ran in the mid- 11's for the quarter. As an experiment, I installed a Holly Supercharger (after substantial reconfiguration of the engine, exhaust and fuel systems.) Despite the fact that I made all of the necessary changes, and was actually running less psi than Holly stated as being well within the safe zone, the engine detonated after 3 track runs. Having witnessed more than a fair share of FI experiments result in blown motors (and these were conducted by very experienced mechanics), I've come to the conclusion that FI can be a very dangerous, not to mention expensive modification. That is NOT to say that it cannot be done. But you better have the engineering AND the testing to prove the viability of the mod. The problem is that no one is ever satisfied: if 6psi is good, 9psi MUST be better. Sure it is...if you're willing to do a little sacrificing.

What uninformed youngsters like Mr. Rabbid_Racer fail to understand is that it's about torque, not horses. Your little Honda may have big horse numbers, but it isn't going to stand a snowball's chance in Hell against a Mopar race motor that develops 640ft lbs of torque. That was no "garbage truck or grandpas RV" engine, Mr. Racer. Nor was it a "Dodge" (learn your badges if nothing else.)

So to you, Mr. Racer, may I offer a famous quote: "Siddown, boy and shut up when your seniors are talkin."

To Mr. dfw_infinity: I apologize that my comments were taken personally. In re-reading my post, I can understand the umbrage taken. I did not mean to single out you or the company you work for. Again, I apologize.

That said, I reserve the right to question ANY vendor who comes to a public forum dangling high FI numbers as bait without offering SUBSTANTIAL details concerning how thorough your test procedures are on a car with this modification. How many road-hours have you tested this car now? 100? 500? Or do you just throw them on a dyno then go post a For Sale sign on forums?

That you limit the installations of your FI to "the people that are actually investing the money are well informed and educated about what is being done and why", as well as " We receive many request for modifications that we will not do" is very admirable. I do believe most people in the after-market game wouldn't give a rat's ass if the person buying the mod was knowledgable or just some dumb kid with more money than sense. Maybe I'll wander over and have a talk with the individual who wanted to know how much your latest mod cost- you sure hooked him up fast enough with John's number. Since I'm "uninformed" and you only sell to the informed, I'm hoping this individual can give me an education on the finer points of VQ FI modification (absolutely Zero offense to that individual here- he/she just happened to be the one to make the inquiry.)

As to being "Uninformed", I've been building race motors for 30 years. How many years have you been building them? Don't go throwing out insults unless you know who you're insulting. I questioned the potential negative aspects of putting 9psi on the VQ engine. Read potential, not absolute. I'll hold to my concerns until I am provided with accurate data resulting from substantial testing which concludes that this modification does not produce excessive wear on the motor. Questioning someone's claims and attacking them with insults is two different things- maybe you should give that some thought. I fully conceed that when it comes to this engine, I'm just learning, and I fully conceed that you know vastly more about it than I do. But like Riffster,Sinurgy, myself and probably hundreds of others, you have people on this forum that are hardly dummies when it comes to motors. So expect to get your hand called when you deal out big performance numbers without providing the details that go along with it.

Again, I'm sorry you took my concerns personally. I in no way meant to insult you or your company. You go test that 9psi, 352HP VQ for a year and if it comes back with no damage to the engine, I'll bring mine up and let you go at it.

[dfw_danny]

Here is a direct quote from Steve Padfield at Vortech Engineering as posted yesterday on the ********************** forum:


Hey all....
I just want to pipe in here and say there is no "authorized" pulley change for the Z. We keep tabs on the pulleys by putting "paint" on the pulley that is attached to the blower, if this is missing or tampered with, no warranty. With this new jackshaft setup that we have for the Corvettes and 350Z/G35, you can change the size of the jackshaft pulley to get the same result without messing with the paint. This is how to get around the 3-year warranty scare. However, there are ways to tell if a supercharger has been overspun. In additon, please be warned that messing with pulleys could damage your motor and adding more boost without changing the SS box tune could also damage the motor. I am not looking to burst any bubbles, but I don't like to see someone saying "authorized" when it is not.




--Steve



Steve,

You might be interested in Steve Padfield's latest post


After talking it over with the guys at Grubbs I have found the problem. It seems it was a communication error on Vortech's part. Grubbs was only going off what we told them and I don't want any of you to think they were BSing you....

[zimbo]

Ok, based on what I've been able to glean it sounds like there was an honest miscommunication/misunderstanding between Grubbs and Vortech regarding the 9lb pulley. I'm not totally clear yet on the bottom line--and it sounds like every installer will have the same Vortech supercharger (not drivetrain!) warranty option as Grubbs when it comes to increasing boost--but I'd like to apologize for calling BS in the manner that I did.

DaBaur, your insistence that Grubbs or anyone else "go test that 9psi, 352HP VQ for a year and if it comes back with no damage to the engine, I'll bring mine up and let you go at it" is laughable.

--Steve

[dfw_danny]

Now back to more important matters...we retuned and made a few programming changes on this same vehicle this morning and the HP is now reading 378 at the rear wheels.

Fuel/air mixture is great and that is about the max with 9 pounds of boost. We will not go beyond 9 pounds!

We have forwarded the print outs to Vortech and I am sure they will have more to say on their website later.

It is a great product and the marriage between it and the G35/350Z engine seems to be perfect.

[dfw_danny]

Well I spoke too soon. Just as I was finishing the post above John returns from the Dyno shop with the results of a Vortech install we completed yesterday. The only other mod to this car is the addition of a Borla exhaust. It too is an automatic.

Horsepower at the rear wheels is 387.

We will put the charts up tomorrow because John had to go back to the Dyno shop to tune and set up another install we did today on a 6M coupe. We are anxious to see these numbers 400+ ???

[al503]

Horsepower at the rear wheels is 387.



That's what I call some giddyap and go. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[damen]

man i tell yah. you guys make me want to drive or ship my car to you and have a system put on. good job guys.

[35CoupeMan]

I certainly do appreciate all the explanations. Riff, one thing to note: if you think Level 10 is the way to go for mods to the 5at, think twice. I've personally seen and been a part of their not standing behind their products. In addition to a relatively competent road racer going thru not one but two products from Level 10. I tend to learn a lesson from an experience(s) like that.

Da Baur and dfw: thanks for the explanations, I do appreciate them. The numbers may speak for itself, hp and torque. However, longevity is another issue altogether. Dollars in, longevity out, more dollars in, as needed. And that's what I was talking about re the Level 10 example above.

Being first in line for the 387 rwhp mod may be good, but even being the 50th client is iffy, dependent on who or what company is standing behind the products. And that's my point especially when (not if) the engine lets go. Or the 5at, for that matter, a probable $2,500 to $4,000 item. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SukairainKupe]

I don't want to sound skeptical, but other posters raised very valid points regarding the reliability of these mods. I remember when the Procharger first came out, everyone was going crazy over them~ Dyno numbers were impressive, manufacturers and installers claimed Procharger conducted extensive research, development and testing on the supercharger. They claim the Procharger was made for reliability and trouble free operation~.

Months later we started to hear about several denotated Procharger installed engines~ and found out the warranty only covers the procharger unit itself but not the engine.

I don't know how different the Vortech unit is to the Procharger, but until it's relatively proven, I will be on the wall. From the looks of things, the Stillen is still the most reliable unit on the market. Other than the hood mod, I like the Stillen unit the most.

[dfw_danny]

I don't want to sound skeptical, but other posters raised very valid points regarding the reliability of these mods. I remember when the Procharger first came out, everyone was going crazy over them~ Dyno numbers were impressive, manufacturers and installers claimed Procharger conducted extensive research, development and testing on the supercharger. They claim the Procharger was made for reliability and trouble free operation~.

Months later we started to hear about several denotated Procharger installed engines~ and found out the warranty only covers the procharger unit itself but not the engine.

I don't know how different the Vortech unit is to the Procharger, but until it's relatively proven, I will be on the wall. From the looks of things, the Stillen is still the most reliable unit on the market. Other than the hood mod, I like the Stillen unit the most.



We have never had a failure on any ProCharger that we have installed with the exception of the unit I memtioned earlier where the customer made further mods that impacted the original setup and leaned ot the fuel/air mixture. In that case the repairs were made at no cost to the customer.

Other than that one problem all of the systems have been trouble free.

According to Nissan experts these engines are designed to achieve and handle far more horsepower that we are reaching. When they say that they are addressing the strength of the parts, such as, the connecting rods won't snap because of the additional HP.

[zimbo]

From the looks of things, the Stillen is still the most reliable unit on the market.



Upon what are you basing this? Do you know the total number of units sold versus the number of units failed?

IMO, the best kits are those that (1) provide a customizable solution for managing fuel and timing retard and (2) are installed by competent tuners.

--Steve

[GeeSpot]

I wish Grubbs would buy out Infiniti of Charlotte and bring your level of customer service and mod friendly atmosphere to N.C. ! C'mon now, what d'ya say?

[Gilgamesh]

So Nissan's engineers say that we can still expect 150k or more form this motor, with FI?

I do plan on getting that out of this car, motor and trans (another thing, if the syncro issue comes up on a 6MT that you guys modded at Grubbs, will it be fixed by you guys, under the Infiniti warranty, or would blame be passed off to the FI?)

150k on FI sounds a little high for me, but if it can be expected, then so be it, I am already looking at FI, and if I can be assured that I would have a good chance of getting that kind of life from the motor/trans, I would look a lot harder. 150k and much more sounds very reasonable to me, in stock form, even with atuox and track day use. Especially if the motor is built to handle such extremes as people here are saying.

[dfw_danny]

So Nissan's engineers say that we can still expect 150k or more form this motor, with FI?

I do plan on getting that out of this car, motor and trans (another thing, if the syncro issue comes up on a 6MT that you guys modded at Grubbs, will it be fixed by you guys, under the Infiniti warranty, or would blame be passed off to the FI?)

150k on FI sounds a little high for me, but if it can be expected, then so be it, I am already looking at FI, and if I can be assured that I would have a good chance of getting that kind of life from the motor/trans, I would look a lot harder. 150k and much more sounds very reasonable to me, in stock form, even with atuox and track day use. Especially if the motor is built to handle such extremes as people here are saying.



Unfortunately there are no absolutes in life or in cars.

After I reread some of the post here I walked out into the service department and snapped a photo of a low mileage 2003 Infiniti G35 coupe that is owned by a middle aged woman and it has not one mod of any kind on it...nothing!

http://secure.grubbs.com/g35cred_engine.jpg

Catastrophic Failure!!!

The new short block can be seen in the box at the rear of the car.

[Gilgamesh]

GOOOOOO Geez that sucks...had she been running FI, the way you installe/tune it, would that work be covered under the vehicles warranty? I am assuming that there is covered.

Also, how long does one have after new purchase to go and get an extended warranty?

[timware]

wow, was there any cause behind that?? Crazy!

My cousin had a casting flaw on her Pathfinder's VQ35 about 2 years ago. (when they first came out).

[AVS007]

So Nissan's engineers say that we can still expect 150k or more form this motor, with FI?

I do plan on getting that out of this car, motor and trans (another thing, if the syncro issue comes up on a 6MT that you guys modded at Grubbs, will it be fixed by you guys, under the Infiniti warranty, or would blame be passed off to the FI?)

150k on FI sounds a little high for me, but if it can be expected, then so be it, I am already looking at FI, and if I can be assured that I would have a good chance of getting that kind of life from the motor/trans, I would look a lot harder. 150k and much more sounds very reasonable to me, in stock form, even with atuox and track day use. Especially if the motor is built to handle such extremes as people here are saying.



Unfortunately there are no absolutes in life or in cars.

After I reread some of the post here I walked out into the service department and snapped a photo of a low mileage 2003 Infiniti G35 coupe that is owned by a middle aged woman and it has not one mod of any kind on it...nothing!

http://secure.grubbs.com/g35cred_engine.jpg

Catastrophic Failure!!!

The new short block can be seen in the box at the rear of the car.



Any speculation on what happened? Did she ever change the oil? Just curious. In college, my friend's dad never changed the oil in his S430 Benz for the life of the car, and the engine siezed at 50,000 miles.

Needing an engine overhaul with low mileage out of the blue (for no apparent reason), scares the crap out of me http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

FWIW, my other car has a blower sitting on top of the V6 (GTP), and it has almost 120k miles, and it still runs great, no oil burning, etc. Granted, it came with the blower from the factory, along with upgraded internals http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif But I have friends with the same engine with smaller pulleys and intercooler, etc, that have similar reliability experiences. We're pretty religeous about engine/tranny fluid/filter changes, so hopefully the gremlins will stay away from my G http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm fully expecting the VQ to outlast the general's 3800 http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dfw_danny]

We won't tear it down to determine why. The point of the post was to get things into perspective. Engines, transmissions, etc., fail from time to time. It happens to the most expensive cars built as well as the cheapest. The parts are mass produced to high standards but they are all still just mechanical things.

If this car had had FI on it how many of the people on here do you think would have said that that was the cause?

Remember our service department, as is every other dealers, is larger than our showroom. There is a reason for that.

[timware]

We won't tear it down to determine why. The point of the post was to get things into perspective. Engines, transmissions, etc., fail from time to time. It happens to the most expensive cars built as well as the cheapest. The parts are mass produced to high standards but they are all still just mechanical things.

If this car had had FI on it how many of the people on here do you think would have said that that was the cause?

Remember our service department, as is every other dealers, is larger than our showroom. There is a reason for that.






I know, I know.. thats just shocking to see.

And actually, your service department is larger than my dealers lot. Impressive place really (your service).. Lots of room, clean floors and clean/friendly techs! You dont see that everywhere.

[TheThing]

Wow dfw_infiniti. Awesome picture. Is it just me misinterpreting the photo, or are the internal cylinder walls actually missing in that block lying on the floor?!

[Sinurgy]

If this car had had FI on it how many of the people on here do you think would have said that that was the cause?

Remember our service department, as is every other dealers, is larger than our showroom. There is a reason for that.



Good point Danny but more importantly, how many Infiniti Service Departments across the country would have said FI was the cause? I think we all know the answer to that and that is what is so damn scary!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Robbie]

I'm in awe of DFW's shop. Good thing they don't have a web cam in the service area, I'd be watching too much http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Baby_G]

DFW,

So is this upgrade like everything else with car-buying. I need call a saleman and be subjected to mind-altering sales speak until a nebulous price is established?

I just want to know how much the different stages of the mods done to the car in your shop have cost.

IE:
Vortech upgrade (9 pounds boost, polished, ecu upgrade).....378 HP.....$xxxx
Borla Exhaust.....387 HP.....$xxxx

There should be solid established prices for these things. Can't you just copy and paste them here? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[dfw_danny]

DFW,

So is this upgrade like everything else with car-buying. I need call a saleman and be subjected to mind-altering sales speak until a nebulous price is established?

I just want to know how much the different stages of the mods done to the car in your shop have cost.

IE:
Vortech upgrade (9 pounds boost, polished, ecu upgrade).....378 HP.....$xxxx
Borla Exhaust.....387 HP.....$xxxx

There should be solid established prices for these things. Can't you just copy and paste them here? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



You need to contact John Isbell 888-447-8227 ext 4114 and he will explain the different systems, options, etc., and then you decide which best suits you needs. That is what determines the price.

[timware]

is it just me or is that a *perfect* time to order some headers http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[neffster]

Can't go into specifics (for legal reasons) but I know one VQ35DE that blew to pieces http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif due to running a Greddy TT, at about 7.5 psi. I'll post more details later, but 400rwhp MAY be the failure point on the VQ. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Sinurgy]

DFW,

So is this upgrade like everything else with car-buying. I need call a saleman and be subjected to mind-altering sales speak until a nebulous price is established?

I just want to know how much the different stages of the mods done to the car in your shop have cost.

IE:
Vortech upgrade (9 pounds boost, polished, ecu upgrade).....378 HP.....$xxxx
Borla Exhaust.....387 HP.....$xxxx

There should be solid established prices for these things. Can't you just copy and paste them here?



I'm afraid the answer is mind altering sales speak until a nebulous price is established.

[Gilgamesh]

Good point Danny but more importantly, how many Infiniti Service Departments across the country would have said FI was the cause? I think we all know the answer to that and that is what is so damn scary!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



That is exactly what I want to know before I jump into FI.

[Profile4]

wow, those are nice numbers. wat is your air/fuel ratio sitting at though?

[esemes]

Can't go into specifics (for legal reasons) but I know one VQ35DE that blew to pieces http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif due to running a Greddy TT, at about 7.5 psi. I'll post more details later, but 400rwhp MAY be the failure point on the VQ. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif



IS this the kid that ran at the dyno day??

whom DID NOT have any relief valving or bypassing???

i think i remember being told there was vapor emitting thru the plenum, after he turned up the boost???

is this the one??? ifso, (IMO) no surprises there.... thats poor design and even moreso irresponsible operation

safety first builds are the only way to go; and there's NO WAY id run FI without custom cell-by-cell mapping, to ensure the feuling is at the very least adequately safe....

PM me if you can!

-eS

[Rabbid_Racer]

No disrespect intended toward the classics. I personally have a 68 pro street chevy pick up in my garage and a 53 Belaire waiting to be restored. I grew up with these I mean the new age of hotrodding imports is less than 10 yrs old. I think most of us respect the classics. BUT!!! Like I said they are not comparable not the same league or the same ball game. And just for your info 600 Hemi road runner to 500hp honda civic my moneys on the civic!!! Horse power to weight ratio Civic to Roadrunner. I'll take those odds any day!!!!!!!