M45 vs 300c SRT vs RL..

[340HP]

Perhaps covered before, apologies if repost. Just wanted to hear some opinions..

The 300c SRT is basically a Benz E with a 425 horsepower HEMI. E tranny. E suspension. Two magazines named it car of the year (MT and Automobile). Yet no one is HOT about the M45. Nor the RL. Both cars are nice, plenty of gadgets. Top of the line audio and Navi systems. But for the money, every source I've read says that the 300c (not even the SRT) blows away the competition.

Thoughts?

In the meantime, take a look at some of the DUB versions that I've collected. I'm planning on a nice set of 22" chrome rims when I do get the SRT:

http://400hp.com:81/300c

Cheers.

[crea]

theres no comparison with those 3 cars yet

[jwaters943]

What do you mean no one is "hot" about the M35/45? Infiniti has been getting great reviews on this vehicle.

As for the 300C/SRT-8, no doubt they're fast cars and great values, but they are NOT true luxury cars. Sit in a 300C and you'll see what I mean. The dash is mainly comprised of hard plastic. The rear headrests do not articulate and are actually part of the seat. The leather trim around the steering wheel is poorly fitted and bunched up around each of the 4 spokes. The door panels and center console lid/armrest are rubbery plastic instead of leather. I'm not saying that's such a bad thing for most buyers, but they had to skimp somewhere to keep the price down. The reason why the 300C is such a big hit is due to its bold styling which many consumers seem to be attracted to and the reasonable pricing. As for the MB influence, read the Chrysler literature more closely. The steering column, gear shift knob and transmission are the only items that were carried over from the previous E-Class. The suspension design is very similar, but not the same (the Chrysler's is made of steel and not aluminum). The platform, engine, etc. are not shared with any MB.

On a related note, I had a 300C rental (yes, the C model w/ the Hemi) and enjoyed it quite a bit. It was refined and powerful. However, it was not in any way sporty, other than the fact that the body lean was very well restrained. The car had too much play in the steering and wandered quite a bit on the highway. For my money, I'll take an M45 any day over the 300C/SRT-8. The M is more nimble, has a much nicer interior and will most likely be more reliable.

I predict that in 2 years the 300C love affair will be over. People are fickle creatures and once you begin to see one on every other corner the car will lose it's appeal. It's the Cadillac Escalade/Hummer H2 of the car world IMHO.

[340HP]

How about this:

http://400hp.com:81/300c/complete.jpg

[psteng19]

Waaaay to much wood. Looks tacky.
Is that real wood? It looks very cheap.

Then again, I'm not a big fan of wood trim in any car, even the M.
I'd go for the alum trim in the sport models.

[340HP]

Tacky would be the last syonym that would come to mind viewing that photo. More like refined, with prestige. Thsi is why Audi, MB, and Lexus put so much wood in their cars. Not to mention Bentley, in which the entire interior is laid in wood.

I think it's very elegant, rather than cheap. The post above ranked on the 300c for looking too plasticky and cheap. And so I tried to demonstrate upgrade options.

To each his own.

What do you drive now? Perhaps you haven't experienced the richness of wood interiors. The 300c is not a 350Z where wood would feel out of place.

Search your feelings. Perhaps sit in a rich interior, like the Audi A8 and see if that changes your mind.

Regards.

[MOMO831]

All three of these cars have their own pros and cons over one another. I’m sure that Acura and Infiniti will be more luxurious and offer more gizmos over the 300c. Then again, a nicely equipped 300c can be had for about $36K, which is much less than the RL or the M. Performance wise, the 300c should be capable of competing with both cars. The SRT will flat out spank them both. What’s hot the price, the look, and 340hp. What’s not Chrysler’s history. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[222Max]

The photo: I wouldn't call it tacky but like most after market wood kits it does look excessive. I prefer a more restrained and tasteful use of wood in a car's interior. Lexus could teach the world about how wood should look and feel in a modern luxury car.

I like the 300c very much. It's probably the boldest, most defiantly American styling statement the American auto industry has made in a very long time. But I don't see it as being on the same mission as cars like the RL and especially the M. The SRT is a muscle car, first and foremost. It's for looking bad and laying down mile-long strips of black rubber. It's a sledge-hammer... and a great stylish one at that.

The M is more of a precision scalpel. It has sharpness and composure to match its speed and strength. It's more about a total driving experience in the vein of a BMW. If I had the 50k to put down on a car in this league I would still get the M.

[jwaters943]

222 Max:

I couldn't have said it better myself. They're both good cars, but have different missions.

[crea]

having alot of wood doesnt make the interior quality go up

the fit and finish is absolutly crap on the 300C, there are alot of parts off the mercedes, but they are parts that doesnt past the QA in MB

not to mention the leather sucks on the chyrsler. even leatherettes are higher quality.

i dont even know how u can compare that interior with bently and audi....

[Jason B]

I think what he's saying is that for the money, it can't be beat, which is true. For the money. Keeping the car 5 years, who knows what will happen. Reliablity is another factor.

[brnjugfx45]

I have a friend who will buy a 300C-SRT to try to beat me..it will be fun!
I doubt Audi or Bentley would pick wood with this much red hue!

[D_Nyholm]

Funny thing is I am considering the SRT-8 instead of the M45. You get the muscle, but you don't get the refinement. I am not sure if I am willing to give up the luxury and gadgets of the M45 in order to get a quarter mile killer!! I am not too sure about the handling of the SRT-8 either. If it is on par with the M45 (comfort with excellent handling), then it might jump up a slight notch in the ranks. Does anyone know how the SRT-8 handles with respect to the M45 Sport??

[dseag2]

How about this:

http://400hp.com:81/300c/complete.jpg



Is that supposed to be an argument FOR or AGAINST the 300C? After driving an RL everyday and seeing the new M, it certainly doesn't present much of a case.

Anyway, I agree with those that said the 300C is a very different animal than the other two. I'm sure it is a blast to drive, but I was totally underwhelmed when I sat in one. The M and the RL blow it away in terms of interior quality and technology. And as for "hot"... the M and RL have received great reviews from the automotive press... in their category.

[g35lover]

There was a 300C parked at the local grocery store the other day- I wish I would have had my camera with me- one of the springs was screwed up or something since its' stance was totally screwed up- one corner of the car was sitting much higher than the rest of the car!

M45 Sport all the way baby! Best looks, great quality, great reliability, great interior, great all-around performance, great looking wheels.

RL= too small, doesn't look like it's worth $50K, no V-8
SRT-8: there's more to a car than HP, build quality is a joke, interior sucks

M45 Sport RULES

[RandyWatson]

There is no doubt that even with that wood, the 300Cs interior falls short of the Infiniti M and Acura Rl. As for hot, there is no denying the 300C is the sedan to have right now. People are lining up to buy them, they are all over magazines and popular culture. Chrysler is still in awe of its popularity. In comparison, even with good or great reviews, neither the RL or M has been on any magazine cover. There is no talk about them by the water cooler. The M, at least seems to get a little more talk but not much. The RL has been out 4 months now and no one really cares anymore.

[rscolemanaz]

I have seen similar comparisons on many forums. This is what I usually say on the matter.

The 300 in any form including the C is nothing more than average family sedan. It is not a luxury automobile. It was intended to sell to masses and not unlike and fully loaded Accord the 300C is still just family mover. The fit, finish, attention to detail, and materials are not that of a luxury automobile or even a semi luxury automobile. The 300C has 2 things going for it and 2 things only. #1 is the hemi V8 and #2 is styling.

The Acura and Infiniti are luxury automobiles they are sold from luxury automobile dealers with luxury amenities. Someone looking for a luxury automobile does not buy a 300C. You buy a 300C for horse power and exterior styling and in couple of years they may both be out of fashion.

[dseag2]

There is no talk about them by the water cooler. The M, at least seems to get a little more talk but not much. The RL has been out 4 months now and no one really cares anymore.



Not sure who "no one" is in your book, but with all due respect, I see a lot more people on Acurazine inquiring about the RL than I see here inquiring about the M. Not knocking the M... I've been to the dealership to check it out and was impressed.

[340HP]

222 Max:

I couldn't have said it better myself. They're both good cars, but have different missions.



Love this comment. Dead-on. Thanks.

[340HP]

having alot of wood doesnt make the interior quality go up

the fit and finish is absolutly crap on the 300C, there are alot of parts off the mercedes, but they are parts that doesnt past the QA in MB

not to mention the leather sucks on the chyrsler. even leatherettes are higher quality.

i dont even know how u can compare that interior with bently and audi....





Not so - please read reviews before you say that interior quality is "crap." The 300c has a nicely done interior. Of course not up to Lex / Audi standard, but much much better than say Chevy.

[340HP]

Funny thing is I am considering the SRT-8 instead of the M45. You get the muscle, but you don't get the refinement. I am not sure if I am willing to give up the luxury and gadgets of the M45 in order to get a quarter mile killer!! I am not too sure about the handling of the SRT-8 either. If it is on par with the M45 (comfort with excellent handling), then it might jump up a slight notch in the ranks. Does anyone know how the SRT-8 handles with respect to the M45 Sport??



Please read the reviews. The SRT holds its own. It has upgraded suspension parts, drivetrain, and transmission to handle the 425 ponies and your more-spirited driving demeanor.

There will be only 10,000 made. Not easy to catch one..

[340HP]

There was a 300C parked at the local grocery store the other day- I wish I would have had my camera with me- one of the springs was screwed up or something since its' stance was totally screwed up- one corner of the car was sitting much higher than the rest of the car!

M45 Sport all the way baby! Best looks, great quality, great reliability, great interior, great all-around performance, great looking wheels.

RL= too small, doesn't look like it's worth $50K, no V-8
SRT-8: there's more to a car than HP, build quality is a joke, interior sucks

M45 Sport RULES



I understand the fact that this is an Infiniti forum and that you are an avid fan - but what I was looking for, was more of an educational argument, not "Infini owns and the rest sucks" type of attitutde.

Don't forget I've owned / still own Infiniti vehicles: 1992 Q45a, 2002 Q45, 2003 FX45 Tech, 350Z. I am VERY MUCH SO considering the M45, but the rear styling is absolutely awful. And the center console reminds me more of an ATM rather than a car's interior.

I'm adding the new GS to my list. Too bad it looks like an Avalon from the front.

So for the time being the SRT might be my vehicle of choice.

In either case, I thank everyone that participated in this thread - and look for more opinions.

Cheers guys.

[340HP]

There is no doubt that even with that wood, the 300Cs interior falls short of the Infiniti M and Acura Rl. As for hot, there is no denying the 300C is the sedan to have right now. People are lining up to buy them, they are all over magazines and popular culture. Chrysler is still in awe of its popularity. In comparison, even with good or great reviews, neither the RL or M has been on any magazine cover. There is no talk about them by the water cooler. The M, at least seems to get a little more talk but not much. The RL has been out 4 months now and no one really cares anymore.



My point exactly.

[dseag2]

There was a 300C parked at the local grocery store the other day- I wish I would have had my camera with me- one of the springs was screwed up or something since its' stance was totally screwed up- one corner of the car was sitting much higher than the rest of the car!

M45 Sport all the way baby! Best looks, great quality, great reliability, great interior, great all-around performance, great looking wheels.

RL= too small, doesn't look like it's worth $50K, no V-8
SRT-8: there's more to a car than HP, build quality is a joke, interior sucks

M45 Sport RULES



I understand the fact that this is an Infiniti forum and that you are an avid fan - but what I was looking for, was more of an educational argument, not "Infini owns and the rest sucks" type of attitutde.

Don't forget I've owned / still own Infiniti vehicles: 1992 Q45a, 2002 Q45, 2003 FX45 Tech, 350Z. I am VERY MUCH SO considering the M45, but the rear styling is absolutely awful. And the center console reminds me more of an ATM rather than a car's interior.

I'm adding the new GS to my list. Too bad it looks like an Avalon from the front.

So for the time being the SRT might be my vehicle of choice.

In either case, I thank everyone that participated in this thread - and look for more opinions.

Cheers guys.



Very valid point. You will undoubtedly receive biased feedback from any forum, but being a multi-brand owner as well I try to be constructive in my comments. Here is my assessment based on seeing the cars, not driving them:

300C- bold, attractive, eye-catching exterior design but 300 is becoming a pretty common sight on the road. Standard 300 is included in rental car fleets, which isn't really a positive. Interior nicely laid out and blue-green guage lighting is cool, but some parts (like A/C knobs, etc.) are substandard compared to Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura. Can't argue with the performance numbers. A lot of bang for the $$$. Long-term reliability... ???

M35/45- Nice, but unimpressive, exterior styling. 18" wheels make the car look like it could fit into the Nissan lineup, so Sport Package w/ 19"s is almost a necessity. Attractive, uniquely styled interior w/ lots of features. Still don't care for orange lighting, but they've definitely made it look better than in the G and FX. I believe the M has some tech features that aren't available on the GS and definitely aren't available on the 300C. Long-term reliability should be great.

GS- More uniquely styled than the M, but definitely not for everyone. Very traditional interior compared to M but quality is first-rate. Infiniti and Acura have moved way forward in making their interiors more interesting, whereas the Lexus interior is more of an evolution of past models. 18" wheels look large enough on the GS, and there will be several wheel options available even for the GS300. Nav and HVAC controls are touch-screen rather than knob control as in the M and RL. Strictly personal taste. Long-term reliability should be great.

Hope you find these comments less biased and more constructive. Again, those are my assessments without have driven any of the cars. When all is said and done, this is totally your decision based on your wants/needs. Everyone has their opinions, but you are the one that has to live with the car.

[David00214]

The orange lighting, aesthetically, may not be as cool as other colors, but it is easier on the eyes at night because it is close to red on the color scale. People that work at night often use red lighting because it doesn't ruin your night vision like white light, or worse, blue light.

So the orange is a functional as well as aesthetic decision.

[D_Nyholm]

I've read a decent amount of reviews on the 300C and the few that are available for the SRT-8. I haven't been able to find out if the SRT-8 will have the sports car like handling of the M45 Sport though. I would assume so, but with those 20" wheels and steel suspension, I would imagine it would be pretty harsh. 340HP, could you post some links to some reviews? I have only seen 1 page first drives and the like.

[NJerseyDawg]

The biggest drawback I've seen of the 300 is the horrible visibility. The small windows really add to the car's exterior styling and presence, but make it difficult to see out of, especially on the sides. Other than that, it's probably one of the best sedans out there for the price.

[340HP]

I've read a decent amount of reviews on the 300C and the few that are available for the SRT-8. I haven't been able to find out if the SRT-8 will have the sports car like handling of the M45 Sport though. I would assume so, but with those 20" wheels and steel suspension, I would imagine it would be pretty harsh. 340HP, could you post some links to some reviews? I have only seen 1 page first drives and the like.



I'll have to scan some for you. Most of the reviews I've read and referred to were from magazines.

I'll get a collection going and put it on my site.. Will update when done.

[340HP]

The biggest drawback I've seen of the 300 is the horrible visibility. The small windows really add to the car's exterior styling and presence, but make it difficult to see out of, especially on the sides. Other than that, it's probably one of the best sedans out there for the price.



Yes - true. Then again, (not drawing a direct comparison) but can you show me a Ferrari or a Lamborghini with good visibility?

Poor analogy on my part, I'm not buying an exotic here.. But I think I'd live with the visibility factor.

And yes, the 300c, given its small windows, looks mean. Especially from the back, with the BLACKED out rears. Reminds me of the black car in The Duel (Spielberg's first film).

[340HP]

Very valid point. You will undoubtedly receive biased feedback from any forum, but being a multi-brand owner as well I try to be constructive in my comments. Here is my assessment based on seeing the cars, not driving them:

300C- bold, attractive, eye-catching exterior design but 300 is becoming a pretty common sight on the road. Standard 300 is included in rental car fleets, which isn't really a positive. Interior nicely laid out and blue-green guage lighting is cool, but some parts (like A/C knobs, etc.) are substandard compared to Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura. Can't argue with the performance numbers. A lot of bang for the $$$. Long-term reliability... ???

M35/45- Nice, but unimpressive, exterior styling. 18" wheels make the car look like it could fit into the Nissan lineup, so Sport Package w/ 19"s is almost a necessity. Attractive, uniquely styled interior w/ lots of features. Still don't care for orange lighting, but they've definitely made it look better than in the G and FX. I believe the M has some tech features that aren't available on the GS and definitely aren't available on the 300C. Long-term reliability should be great.

GS- More uniquely styled than the M, but definitely not for everyone. Very traditional interior compared to M but quality is first-rate. Infiniti and Acura have moved way forward in making their interiors more interesting, whereas the Lexus interior is more of an evolution of past models. 18" wheels look large enough on the GS, and there will be several wheel options available even for the GS300. Nav and HVAC controls are touch-screen rather than knob control as in the M and RL. Strictly personal taste. Long-term reliability should be great.

Hope you find these comments less biased and more constructive. Again, those are my assessments without have driven any of the cars. When all is said and done, this is totally your decision based on your wants/needs. Everyone has their opinions, but you are the one that has to live with the car.



Excellent post.

I came THIS close (imagine really close) to owning a TL 6MT. What made me not get it was FWD.

In eihter case, focusing on the discussion - all of your points are true from my perspective. And I love the GS, be it evolutionary or whatever term gets tagged on its butt. Except for the front. Very fugly-ish Avalon-ish. LOVE the interior. I really do. And the gauges.. Oh, those gorgeous gauges..

http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/500/605DSC07465.JPG

http://www.powersys.com/auto_show2004/Lexus%20GS430%20Pic%203-pt.jpg

http://www.powersys.com/auto_show2004/Lexus%20GS430%20Pic-pt.jpg

http://www.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/albums/album02/2006gs430_20.sized.jpg

[g35lover]

Hey, you're free to pick whatever vehicle you want.

It sounds like you're very likely going to get the SRT-8. Good for you.

I've looked at a bunch of Chrysler 300's up close, and my sister owns one with a V-6. The build quality is a laugher, so that when I saw the 300 in the parking lot the other day with the screwed up stance (one corner of the car was approx. 3" higher than the other corners), it didn't surprise me at all. The interior is 10+ years behind the M45's interior. The M45's "ATM" layout on the center console is vastly easier to use than BMW's IDrive. The SRT-8 would be great for quarter mile runs, but how often do you get to drive a car like that on real roads? Prepare to pay a big premium for the SRT-8 since there will only be 10,000 made. Chrysler dealers will likely add a "market adjustment" to the price. Of course, since the M45 is new you'll have to pay MSRP for one. I don't know what you find wrong with the M45's rear end (luxury cars often have large taillights)- the 300's rear end is boring and dull by comparison. Plus, large taillights increase safety.

RL= too small, Accord styling, overpriced, V-6
SRT-8= laughable build, cheesy interior, retro styling (all Detroit can do is look back at history instead of going forward)
M45= great looks (saw a black one up close at local dealer), great 19" wheels, sweet interior, superior handling over SRT-8, made in Japan, even though not as powerful as SRT-8- the Nissan V-8 is built better than any V-8 Chrysler can make.

Read the M45 Sport review in Road & Track!

The Lexus GS would be a good choice too.

Good luck with your new 300, since I'm sure that's what you're going to buy. Don't forget it needs 22" Dubs. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[340HP]

Don't call the fight before it's over.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Surely, 22" dubs would be a given, would I get the SRT. However, I didn't give up on the other vehicles yet. That is why I opened this thread - a discussion to let educated minds like ourselves pour thoughts and weigh options. If I REALLY made my decision, I wouldn't ask.. Sometimes you know all of the things that the other people tell you - but you never really hear them, until a thread like this forms.

Thanks again for sharing. I'll be starting to test drive these vehicles soon to get a real feeling. Although I doubt I'll get to "test" ride an SRT due to lack of availability (as you mentioned the 10K build #).

First though, I need to sell that Z 6MT. I've had my fun for a while. This is where my longing for the SRT comes from. I love to drive. And I mean DRIVE..

Again, thanks for your thoughts..

[g35lover]

OK....good luck with whatever you choose....be sure to keep us informed with how your search is going and what you eventually buy.

[ZYAL8R808]

I think it's an insult to any foreign manufacturer to be compared to any American manufacturer. America is so behind in all aspects involved in producing quality cars that it amazes me that anyone today would pick American over foreign. To answer your question I'd take anything BUT the American car (except maybe a Korean car, they suck too).

[RandyWatson]

I think it's an insult to any foreign manufacturer to be compared to any American manufacturer. America is so behind in all aspects involved in producing quality cars that it amazes me that anyone today would pick American over foreign. To answer your question I'd take anything BUT the American car (except maybe a Korean car, they suck too).


Are you okay? B/C the line is blurring. The Infniti QX56 is built in America, by Americans for Americans. Its not exported. The Corvette costs as much as a Z-tune 350Z and will destroy that car. The Z06 cannot be touched for the price. The 300C cannot be touched for the price. Accords and Camrys and Maximass and Altimas are made in American for Americans by Americans.

And Korean cars have made TREMENDOUS strides the last 5 years. And personally most Korean car interiors are much better than your FX.

[340HP]

I agree. Even the Jetta is built in the USA. The M Benz is too (if I'm not mistaken). So is the TL.

[cheerioboy26]

I think the Jetta is built in Mexico.

[Enceladus]

EWWW please tell me no one plans on buying this:

http://400hp.com:81/300c/5147781_image003.jpg


Why did they have to go ahead and make the 300C magnum??? They have no shame in sharing so much with the dodge.


As for the 300C interior, way too much wood. They need to tone that down a little. Nice analog clock too. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[psteng19]

The wagon is ugly but the coupe is HOT.
http://www.cwwcardesign.com/cars/pics/chrysler300coupe.jpg

[340HP]

Yeah man, the coupe is nice. What's the ETA?

[TwiBlueG35]

300C would sell good in the $20k-30k price range. People say it is good must have taken price into consideration. Plus, a overhead valve engine could not provide as smooth and refined feeling as a overhead camshaft engine. If you want a full-sized sedan with a bit of sporty feel, 300C might be the best choice in the under $30k class, but once you go up to the mid-luxury sports sedan level, not many people would actually consider it, when they can choose from BMW 5-series, Infiniti M-series, Lexus GS-series, Mercedes-Benz E-class, Acura RL, Audi A6, and Cadillac STS. Performance is not the only thing or even the major thing in this class of car. They have to have a good balance between comfort and performance and high luxury.

[g35lover]

Read the review of the SRT-8 in Road & Track. Sounds great and it is a great value (if you could find a dealer that would sell it at MSRP without adding a "market adjustment"). But you gotta pay that gas guzzler tax and at 14 city/19 highway, plan on plenty of visits to the gas pump. SRT-8's are only available in silver or black.

[340HP]

As you can see, I made my choice:

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=M35M45&Number=67928246&pag e=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Getting the M45 sport.

[g35lover]

Wow! Thanks for the pics!

When will yours arrive?

Congrats.