Pontiac G6 Sales: Sometimes, Less is .. well, Less

[M_TYPE_X]

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/oprahx22e_20050322.htm

The new Pontiac Malibu is ........ Fuel for the Soul. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I've seen 2-3 on-road specimen of the Pontiac G6 and Buick LaCrosse. Nice enough cars, for GM product that is.

So which division is going bye-bye first, Pontiac or Buick?

[indys2k]

The G6 is nice enough, but it's too damn expensive. Without incentives (which GM has to offer on every car/truck now) it's more expensive than an Altima/Accord/Camary/Mazda 6. Why would many people buy a G6 over any of those cars?

[Not_Vin_Diesel]

And now, based on poor sales of GM vehicles and plummeting stock, they are now scrapping their "Zeta" architecture project that was supposed to bring RWD sedans and a new RWD GTO into the fold, as well as the Buick Velite (see the daily edition of thecarconnection.com.)

If you ask me, falling sales numbers and stock is exactly the reason why they need to get to the RWD program now! A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. They are losing money selling FWD cars with "meh" styling. Hmm, how about RWD cars with some in your face styling? Love it or hate it, the new 300 and Magnum aren't having any sales problems. I don't know, has the CTS been a sales success? Was it a typical GM product? How about they follow that success path, instead of putting out cars that are so watered down from the concept that the average consumer can't connect the dots from what they saw at the auto show?

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Sales of all pontiacs are slow.

As a die-hard fan of the general....well, fastly becoming a former die-hard fan of GM, I have to ask, do they honestly expect people to pay the prices their asking for their automobiles? Do they seriously expect me to pay $30K for a trailblazer which has one of the $hittiest interiors I've ever seen, when I can get a XTerra for a better price? Better overall looks and better price. Hell, even the equinox is fvcked. It's almost 4 grand more than its competitors.

Sorry GM, but youre fvcked.

I think the CTS was a huge sales success. So were the H2, and Escalade. But you're right, they are completely insane. They've been making the same type of cars for decades with the same retarded option packages that always make people go "wtf?"

[FR31]

but its the "First-Ever" G6! that has to mean something, right?

[Milesblue42]

And now, based on poor sales of GM vehicles and plummeting stock, they are now scrapping their "Zeta" architecture project that was supposed to bring RWD sedans and a new RWD GTO into the fold, as well as the Buick Velite (see the daily edition of thecarconnection.com.)

If you ask me, falling sales numbers and stock is exactly the reason why they need to get to the RWD program now! A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. They are losing money selling FWD cars with "meh" styling. Hmm, how about RWD cars with some in your face styling? Love it or hate it, the new 300 and Magnum aren't having any sales problems. I don't know, has the CTS been a sales success? Was it a typical GM product? How about they follow that success path, instead of putting out cars that are so watered down from the concept that the average consumer can't connect the dots from what they saw at the auto show?






Agreed, now they are going to bring the 07 trucks ( Escalade, Tahhoe etc ) to market faster ? I know there is more profit to made but with Gas Prices not showing any signs going lower anytime soon why ? Sometimes I think GM should stand for General Meatheads.
I seen a brand new G6 with more little swirly scratches on it than the Club Remix of the Force MD's song " Itching For A Scratch " the new C6 vette seems to have that same type of cheap paint http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif
How in the world can the World's largest auto maker not be able to make really goods cars for their home market, maybe they just dont care because of the profit they are making on trucks.

Yes the " First Ever Oprah G6 " is too expensive for what you arent getting, no navi, 5-speed auto,no HID's

Are they going to go bankrupt, will the Government bail them out or will China aquire them http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ?

Ah i can see it now, General Motors branch offices in the US, Headquarters in China http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Not_Vin_Diesel]

Introducing the new General - General Tso! GM's car division is a paper tiger . . . http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Milesblue42]

Introducing the new General - General Tso! GM's car division is a paper tiger . . . http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif no i mean http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Madmaster]

Yeah dunno what youre thinking to buy a G6 over an Accord, Altima, or Camry. It lags behind them in so many ways. Those 4k incentives make it more attractive at least lol. Their 240hp 6 speed coupe will just be playing catch up with the Accord, and their convertible looks so similar to Solara (from the rear at least).

[M_TYPE_X]

but its the "First-Ever" G6! that has to mean something, right?



Yeah, it means "Last Ever" isn't as attractive in advertising.

It's about time we had a good thread in here. What do you know, started by me even. Excellent response rate you guys.

GM's stupid pricing schemes are meant to screw grandma over. My Dad couldn't believe what my Mom's mom paid for her Grand Am back five years ago. Mom: "Alan, you go with her next time to the dealer!" (I only hope he doesn't bring home an Impala while he's there.)

Grandma would have bought another Olds, but she didn't like her local dealer (Suburban in the Troy Motor Mall). WHY she needs to replace her 2001ish Grand Am is http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif anyway... she doesn't drive other than to shop, go to the greenhouse, or to the casinos. Maybe she smoked up the interior bad enough she can't stand it anymore. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There are only so many people who want a cut-rate deal on a base Impala (aka Chevrolet Prancing Mammal Fullsize Rental Sedan) or who will pay near sticker (Grandma ... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) on a Pontiac. GM hasn't CUT the Zeta program, but they did POSTPONE it (indefinitely?). Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[indys2k]

It's about time we had a good thread in here. What do you know, started by me even.



Hmmm...then maybe we should stop responding http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Scraping the Zeta platform to build more trucks and SUVs is still smart. That's where the profits are, and will continue until gas goes over $3 a gallon.

GM has some decent product out there and more coming, the problem is the heavy incentives that have been going on for waaaay too long. People are placing no value on GM's cars/trucks anymore. How many deal are there that the actual transaction price is below invoice? Tons.

That puts GM in the position where volume is key, and their volume is dropping causing them to idle more production lines and driving costs up.

Without some serious hits for GM in the marketplace they are screwed. Ford is next.

['87 Sentra]

Here is the solution: Build the G6 the way it looked when it was a prototype.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1574-1.jpg
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1574-2.jpg
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1574-5.jpg

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1574-4.jpg

http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/images.autobytel.com/view/aic/PONTIAC/G6/sdn/usa_2005_pontiac_g6_sdn_4_x_exrrpass75_x.jpg http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/images.autobytel.com/view/aic/PONTIAC/G6/sdn/usa_2005_pontiac_g6_sdn_4_x_indrvrdash_x.jpg

The real thing is so way off the sexy styling of the prototype that it should come to no surprise that people just aren't buying it. It is plain cheap and boring.

[Enceladus]

A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. They are losing money selling FWD cars with "meh" styling. Hmm, how about RWD cars with some in your face styling? Love it or hate it, the new 300 and Magnum aren't having any sales problems.



Its like the old saying "if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten."


Personally, i think the G6 is uglier then the grand am. My friend has a '00 or '01 Grand Am and it is nice as hell. the G6 seems like a cartoon version of the grand am. It may be new but its look is not improved.

And what is the point of changing the name from grand am to G6? there goes all the product loyalty out the window. Who cares if it is the "first ever." I could take a dump on a skateboard and call it "the first ever--- Turd7 !!!" It will probably sell better then the G6 cuz at least it's name is more descriptive.

what exactly is the significance of the name? When the 4 cylinder comes out (whoop de dooo) is it gonna be called the G4? The letter "G" isn't very original either. Infiniti has a G, Lexus has a GS, mercedes has a G wagon (Gelandeswagon), My autoshop teacher in HS was Mr. G. Pick a different letter already! Overall, poor name because it isn't something consumers can identify with.



My take on why the Oprah promotion didn't work: think of who Oprah appeals to. Are typical Oprah viewers geared towards Pontiac's "fuel for the soul" motto? if you look at other things that oprah has promoted, does a pontiac fit in? For some reason i see Oprah selling camry's or corrolas, not G6's. Something more subdued seems to fit Oprahs personality , and her typical viewer's pocketbooks as well.

Look at the one G6 commercial where there is a "launch sequence" type countdown, and the lady driver peels out like crazy, laying rubber all over in her fancy paver stone driveway.

When I first saw the commercial, i thought "Wow, what a jackass. There was no need to peel out like that and ruin your driveway stones." It reminded me of the time I parked my Dad's '94 Saturn SL1 on the part of my driveway with a stone paver walkway. It leaked just enough oil to ruin 3 of those stones. They are a ********** to replace, especially since I had to re-arrange the old stones with the new ones so that they blend in (due to the sun-fading of the existing stones). Boy did that commercial make me mad. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/mad.gif [/tangent]

I just can't imagine a typical Oprah viewer behind the steering wheel doing something like this, or watching a commercial with someone being stupid and thinking that it is appealing enough to buy.

[Irie_eyes]

GM hasn't CUT the Zeta program, but they did POSTPONE it (indefinitely?). Dumb, dumb, dumb.



I read that their giving Caddy a boost with a X5 fighter and a $150,000 Bentley-esqe Zeta-based luxocruiser.
It's gonna have a V-10, an LS7+2 more cylinder=600 hp
Of course, concept doesn't mean reality.

[Enceladus]

GM hasn't CUT the Zeta program, but they did POSTPONE it (indefinitely?). Dumb, dumb, dumb.



I read that their giving Caddy a boost with a X5 fighter and a $150,000 Bentley-esqe Zeta-based luxocruiser.
It's gonna have a V-10, an LS7+2 more cylinder=600 hp
Of course, concept doesn't mean reality.



Where did you read this? is the v10 really a LS7 +2 cylinders? what ever happened to the V16 http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-16/cadillac-16-03.htm

or the CIEN? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/mad.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-cien-concept/cadillac-cien-01.htm


Oh well, i guess something is better then nothing.

[Not_Vin_Diesel]

Scrapping the Zeta program is only smart if they plan to scrap their car building program altogether. I don't remember reading where the Zeta program was keeping them from building trucks and SUV's. They seem to still be doing that at a reasonable clip. If they want to save some money, why don't they put Saab out of it's misery and devote the money they're flushing down that drain into the program.

I just don't see how anyone is going to believe you've got good product when 5 months in you're giving 4K rebates. That doesn't scream "quality" to me. There is no value placed on their cars because the styling is emotionless, the interiors are underdone and the engines are underpowered.

I mean, really, in the end - their cars suck. Flat out s-u-c-k. Who is itching to buy a Cobalt over a Civic? Or even over the old Jetta for that matter? Who would rather walk out to a G6 over an Accord, Camry or Altima? From my years in the car business we generally understood that people turned to domestics for two reasons - they just wanted the cheapest car they could find and they were "get-me-done's." That was it. I never had one person come into my dealership and honestly compare features on any Nissan, Honda, VW, Infiniti, or Audi I sold against a domestic.

[SHIFT_6speeds]

My friend has a '00 or '01 Grand Am and it is nice as hell.



Thats the funniest damned thing I've read in here for a very long time! LMAO!!!

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Scrapping the Zeta program is only smart if they plan to scrap their car building program altogether. I don't remember reading where the Zeta program was keeping them from building trucks and SUV's. They seem to still be doing that at a reasonable clip. If they want to save some money, why don't they put Saab out of it's misery and devote the money they're flushing down that drain into the program.

I just don't see how anyone is going to believe you've got good product when 5 months in you're giving 4K rebates. That doesn't scream "quality" to me. There is no value placed on their cars because the styling is emotionless, the interiors are underdone and the engines are underpowered.

I mean, really, in the end - their cars suck. Flat out s-u-c-k. Who is itching to buy a Cobalt over a Civic? Or even over the old Jetta for that matter? Who would rather walk out to a G6 over an Accord, Camry or Altima? From my years in the car business we generally understood that people turned to domestics for two reasons - they just wanted the cheapest car they could find and they were "get-me-done's." That was it. I never had one person come into my dealership and honestly compare features on any Nissan, Honda, VW, Infiniti, or Audi I sold against a domestic.




I've just got to know, do you have a voice like Vin Diesel? Or can you at least impress something close to his voice? I think a lot of kids would buy cars from you if you had the whole package. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[M_TYPE_X]

My friend has a '00 or '01 Grand Am and it is nice as hell.



Thats the funniest damned thing I've read in here for a very long time! LMAO!!!



Ence had my attention through his entire post, but that comment was a little too off-the-wall. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

AutoExtremist.com's Peter DeLorenzo covered every point of what needs to be done about GM North American operations in his Rant this week.
"The Rick" Wagoner hopefully has thrown away his "30%" [market share] lapel pin, because GM is sliding down from its current 25% share. They're going to have to settle for 20%, and if they are profitable or not is up to them. Obviously, at 20%, their divisional structure needs to be scrapped. The only true survivors will be Chevrolet, Cadillac, and 'something else.'

[delerium75]

I think a mistake was made in not offering the 4-cylinder model from the start. Look at the Chrysler Pacifica and how slugglish those were to sell initially cuz they only built loaded models in the beginning (but a 'G4' would be SLOW considering the V6 weighs around 3500lbs). Other problem is pricing...while GM cars have gotten better in very recent times, there's absolutely nothing behind it yet to justify precious pricing. It's easier to justify price increases when your product is value-priced to begin with and shows it has a solid reputation. Lexus started jacking up the prices on the original LS400 it's second year and jumped about $10K in 5 years. Third problem I see is that the G6 has probably alientated some Grand Am buyers due to it's simple design. Given how many Grand Ams did sell, I think there's probably a good market out there for people who like tacky, boy-racer styling and all the "Excitement!" that Pontiacs used to have. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[RandyWatson]

I think a mistake was made in not offering the 4-cylinder model from the start. Look at the Chrysler Pacifica and how slugglish those were to sell initially cuz they only built loaded models in the beginning (but a 'G4' would be SLOW considering the V6 weighs around 3500lbs). Other problem is pricing...while GM cars have gotten better in very recent times, there's absolutely nothing behind it yet to justify precious pricing. It's easier to justify price increases when your product is value-priced to begin with and shows it has a solid reputation. Lexus started jacking up the prices on the original LS400 it's second year and jumped about $10K in 5 years. Third problem I see is that the G6 has probably alientated some Grand Am buyers due to it's simple design. Given how many Grand Ams did sell, I think there's probably a good market out there for people who like tacky, boy-racer styling and all the "Excitement!" that Pontiacs used to have. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Lexus had to incrase prices due to the yen. Infiniti prices raised too.

[Not_Vin_Diesel]

I agree that the four cylinder should have come out already. I also agree that it's difficult to justify a price increase not only on first year cars, but on cars where the improvement is mostly in the arguable category of fit and finish.

[M_TYPE_X]

Given how many Grand Ams did sell, I think there's probably a good market out there for people who like tacky, boy-racer styling and all the "Excitement!" that Pontiacs used to have. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Exactly. => No need for 4-cylinder Pontiac sedan. Standard V6.

It's not the price, but rather than that the GM traditionalists aren't interested in a sedan nearing (for GM standards) a sporty, small midsize car. GM is not VW; Impala and Grand Prix is important, not a car that aspires to outsell Jettas. Likewise, a small but still luxurious Buick (LaCrosse) is ignored by the GM Card Club. They want a LeSabre with all the chrome trimmings. Big, gaudy, boat-like handling.

How 1990s Skylarks sold ... I do not know these things.

Pontiac is throwing out 5 of 10 vehicles they are selling as 2005 models as they head into 2006. They are adding the Solstice and Torrent. Other than the Grand Prix and GTO, you can get the rest of the lineup elsewhere. Pontiac Vibe is a Pontiac-style Toyota Matrix, the Montana SV6 is simply a Chevy Uplander with a couple of stupid extra unnecessary/unwanted bells and whistles, and the G6 should be a 'Malibu SE' (i.e. they should offer a true sport trim of the Malibu, wait, they have already shown a Malibu SS product plan).

And the GTO is really an Australian large coupe based off of a large Holden RWD sedan, and has a Corvette engine dropped into the engine bay.

The Grand Prix is related to the Impala, but the Grand Prix is at least a large midsize sedan and offers somewhat rakish design with both V6 and (now) V8 engine options. Guess what? It IS, and has been, traditionally THE best-selling Pontiac. Why? It's the only REAL Pontiac out there. The Bonneville has ridiculous for a long time. If you need such a large car, buy a Buick fullsize sedan and put a spoiler on it or something (that would look odd I know). The late 1990s Bonneville should have been called 'Buick Bonneville.' Old man cars in suburbia alert!

End rant.

2007 PONTUICK LINEUP

PONTUICK GRAND PRICKS
PONTUICK LUCERNE
PONTUICK SPACEMASTER [redesigned Rendezvous/Terraza]

GTO gets dropped because GM felt Zeta was a waste of time. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Okay, midmarket lineup done. You don't like? Buy a Chevy or a Cataract. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[delerium75]

Lexus had to incrase prices due to the yen. Infiniti prices raised too.


I think this is true to a point but don't forget the rumors that Toyota was dumping early LSs in the US market. The original base price for a 1990 LS was $35K and with options like leather, moonroof, traction control etc., pricing was closer to $40+. In 1995, an LS based at $51K (sorry, I had to dig up exact figures--I knew it was over ten thousand but didn't think it was 16) and easily pushed 60 large when loaded. For a little bit of perspective, a loaded '90 Maxima GXE was almost $24K but a fully loaded '95 GLE topped in the high 27s.


How 1990s Skylarks sold ... I do not know these things.


There must be status in owning a Buick...even an ugly one. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Irie_eyes]

Where did you read this? is the v10 really a LS7 +2 cylinders? what ever happened to the V16 http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-16/cadillac-16-03.htm

or the CIEN? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/mad.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-cien-concept/cadillac-cien-01.htm


Oh well, i guess something is better then nothing.



There was a little article in one of the car mags I skimmed through.
The XV-12 is still a go. That motor is for their trucks and SUVs, not exclusive to the Cien. They just had it so they just used it for the concept.
The Sixteen motor I really really doubt it. That was probably the conceptual idea behind this supposed Bentley fighter.
If the V-10 is not to be exclusive to that car and Caddy, LS7+2 cylinder= http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Milesblue42]

Given how many Grand Ams did sell, I think there's probably a good market out there for people who like tacky, boy-racer styling and all the "Excitement!" that Pontiacs used to have. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Exactly. => No need for 4-cylinder Pontiac sedan. Standard V6.

It's not the price, but rather than that the GM traditionalists aren't interested in a sedan nearing (for GM standards) a sporty, small midsize car. GM is not VW; Impala and Grand Prix is important, not a car that aspires to outsell Jettas. Likewise, a small but still luxurious Buick (LaCrosse) is ignored by the GM Card Club. They want a LeSabre with all the chrome trimmings. Big, gaudy, boat-like handling.

How 1990s Skylarks sold ... I do not know these things.

Pontiac is throwing out 5 of 10 vehicles they are selling as 2005 models as they head into 2006. They are adding the Solstice and Torrent. Other than the Grand Prix and GTO, you can get the rest of the lineup elsewhere. Pontiac Vibe is a Pontiac-style Toyota Matrix, the Montana SV6 is simply a Chevy Uplander with a couple of stupid extra unnecessary/unwanted bells and whistles, and the G6 should be a 'Malibu SE' (i.e. they should offer a true sport trim of the Malibu, wait, they have already shown a Malibu SS product plan).

And the GTO is really an Australian large coupe based off of a large Holden RWD sedan, and has a Corvette engine dropped into the engine bay.

The Grand Prix is related to the Impala, but the Grand Prix is at least a large midsize sedan and offers somewhat rakish design with both V6 and (now) V8 engine options. Guess what? It IS, and has been, traditionally THE best-selling Pontiac. Why? It's the only REAL Pontiac out there. The Bonneville has ridiculous for a long time. If you need such a large car, buy a Buick fullsize sedan and put a spoiler on it or something (that would look odd I know). The late 1990s Bonneville should have been called 'Buick Bonneville.' Old man cars in suburbia alert!

End rant.

2007 PONTUICK LINEUP

PONTUICK GRAND PRICKS
PONTUICK LUCERNE
PONTUICK SPACEMASTER [redesigned Rendezvous/Terraza]

GTO gets dropped because GM felt Zeta was a waste of time. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Okay, midmarket lineup done. You don't like? Buy a Chevy or a Cataract. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I wouldnt buy one because of content

HID's : NO
Navi: No
5-speed option: No
200+ hp: No

Being able to say to my friends that my G6 was featured on the Oprah Show: Yes, and priceless just GM stock will be in a couple of months http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Enceladus]

My friend has a '00 or '01 Grand Am and it is nice as hell.



Thats the funniest damned thing I've read in here for a very long time! LMAO!!!



Ence had my attention through his entire post, but that comment was a little too off-the-wall. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Okay http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif when I said "and it is nice as hell" I either meant "but she keeps it clean though" and/or "at least its nicer then what i drive" http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[M_TYPE_X]

Ence, we don't want to know what you drive. Unless it's an '86 Pontiac Parisienne Ghetto Cruiser Wagon! Woo baby. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

From the Detroit News today:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/25/A01-128984.htm


"They got dealers scared to death," said Phil Shostack, sales manager at Jim Fresard Pontiac-Buick in Royal Oak. "It sent shockwaves. We're spending gobs of money (to expand), and to lose a franchise? Are you kidding?"

Rochester Hills Buick-Pontiac dealer Russ Shelton called Lutz's remarks "extremely upsetting" since he's also contemplating an expansion.

"Why did (Lutz's comments) happen in the first place?" he asked.



It's called a game of 'pull my finger,' Russ. It's also called, your showroom has needed upgrading for the past ten damn years. Of course, when you sell me the land for Rochester Hills Honda/Acura/Nissan it will kinda be immaterial. (I'm aiming to sell ten cars a year unless Nissan accepts GM or Ford A-plans.) http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


J.D. Power and Associates sales analyst Jeff Brodoski said a recent analysis by the market research firm doesn't support a move by GM to excise any brands.

"We have all the GM brands going strong in our forecasts," said Brodoski. "A lot of them are adding vehicles, and we still see a lot of product activity."



This guy takes a sheet and calls it 'product activity.'
Look buddy, just because the lights are on at home, don't mean anyone is inside.


Brodoski said coupe and convertible versions of the Pontiac G6, and the new two-seat convertible Solstice, will help Pontiac in the near term.



Hopefully. Again, they are dropping the Bonneville and Sunfire and the changeover in the minivans and the Grand Am => G6 doesn't appear to be doing anything good for Pontiac ... in the 'near term.' http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


But analyst Erich Merkle at IRN Inc. in Grand Rapids said GM "has far too many divisions to support right now with their current resources."

GM warned last week it will report a first-quarter loss and that 2005 profits will fall as much as 80 percent.

Jim McTevia, chairman of Eastpointe corporate turnaround specialists McTevia and Associates, believes Pontiac and Buick have about run their course despite new models, and that given GM's sinking financial fortunes, the automaker needs to adjust its vehicle portfolio to match the needs of a changing marketplace.

"GM is going to have to take a good, hard look at the products it is making and see if those products fit the customer base, regardless of where the customer is," McTevia said. "Ford had the Edsel, and GM has a few Edsels of its own."



You know Jim, they never did find Jimmy Hoffa's body.

[hiwayman17]

This is a curse for GM. They finally come out with a truly new car and it is better than the car it replaces in most non-subjective areas, but it still is not the car Pontiac fans wanted.

[M_TYPE_X]

This is a curse for GM. They finally come out with a truly new car and it is better than the car it replaces in most non-subjective areas, but it still is not the car Pontiac fans wanted.




It is THE entry-level Pontiac. A Vibe isn't a Pontiac. A Sunfire is a Cavalier. The G6 is just sporty-looking enough to not be a Malibu. The Malibu is more apple pie and going to grandma's house or the drive-in whereas the Grand Am/G6 is more wannabe racer or wannabe sport sedan.

The GTO isn't really a Pontiac; it's an international muscle car.

The real Pontiac is the Grand Prix. They dropped the Bonneville so they can concentrate on it.

Unfortunately, one car line isn't enough for a mass-market brand. Pontiac and Buick both need at least two or three strong product lines in CARS. Leave the vans to Chevy and Saturn, the trucks to GMC, and the SUVs to Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac.

[SHIFT_6speeds]

Maybe the Cavalier is a Sunfire?? . http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[G35RIDER]

Where did you read this? is the v10 really a LS7 +2 cylinders? what ever happened to the V16 http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-16/cadillac-16-03.htm

or the CIEN? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/mad.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-cien-concept/cadillac-cien-01.htm


Oh well, i guess something is better then nothing.



There was a little article in one of the car mags I skimmed through.
The XV-12 is still a go. That motor is for their trucks and SUVs, not exclusive to the Cien. They just had it so they just used it for the concept.
The Sixteen motor I really really doubt it. That was probably the conceptual idea behind this supposed Bentley fighter.
If the V-10 is not to be exclusive to that car and Caddy, LS7+2 cylinder= http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



It was in Motor Trend, the problem they're having with the 10 cylinder is that it vibrates way to much, something that would be solved with a V-12.

[Enceladus]

Where did you read this? is the v10 really a LS7 +2 cylinders? what ever happened to the V16 http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-16/cadillac-16-03.htm

or the CIEN? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/mad.gif
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/cadillac/cadillac-cien-concept/cadillac-cien-01.htm


Oh well, i guess something is better then nothing.



There was a little article in one of the car mags I skimmed through.
The XV-12 is still a go. That motor is for their trucks and SUVs, not exclusive to the Cien. They just had it so they just used it for the concept.
The Sixteen motor I really really doubt it. That was probably the conceptual idea behind this supposed Bentley fighter.
If the V-10 is not to be exclusive to that car and Caddy, LS7+2 cylinder= http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



It was in Motor Trend, the problem they're having with the 10 cylinder is that it vibrates way to much, something that would be solved with a V-12.


My guess: too much reciprocating mass. I had this exact same problem today when I put my comforter through the washer's spin cycle. Bummer.

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Ass, the caddy V16 = LS7*2.

They stated over a year ago that the new Z06 motor would be based off of the technology in the concept V16 Sixteen. 1000hp on 16 cylinders = 500hp on 8 cylinders.

[M_TYPE_X]

Maybe the Cavalier is a Sunfire?? . http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif



Oh my. For $20 less, you can have 99.9% of the Sunfire.
Is that Consumer Surplus or what?! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

"Dear Camry owners:

It has been called to our attention that your cars are largely Lexuses with less content. Is this cool or what?!
You still get Lexus reliability, 'cept without all the extra-cost crap that the luxury buyers pay for! PROFIT!

Sincerely,

TOYOTA MOTOR SALES U.S.A. MARKETEERING OPERATIONS

"

[SHIFT_6speeds]

Got it backwards...Lexuses are a fake made up brand, they are just gayed up Toyotas for a market that needs fancy names and wondermous marketeering! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[actualowner]

Hmm..I have a friend that bought a new Altima the exact same week I bought the G6. We spent nearly the same amount of money but I got: 6 indash cd with xm Onstar with diagnotics fog lamps adjustable pedals 4 panel panoramic roof power seat 6 cyl vs 4 cyl on and on... G6 got Strategic Vision Award for best ownership experience, J.D. Powers & Associates for most appealing midsize sedan for content layout and design. Consumer Reports gave acceleration an Excellent. The Orion, Michigan plant is rated as 4th best in the nation. Very decent crash ratings as well. DNA is not the same as grand am at all. Consumer reports was frankly unkind to Nissan about it's reliability. My own experience riding in both cars is that the interior of the nissan used way too different materials and shapes/and car missing features..In Dec '05 Nissan's sales were down. I think Nissan's corporate move out of California to Tennessee is proof it knows its own economic liabilities.. As far as some of the comments about GM being out of the game and slashing divisions..there is much they can do before that happens.

[M_TYPE_X]

Consumer reports was frankly unkind to Nissan about it's reliability.



Hmmm?

[Nismo]

Hmm..I have a friend that bought a new Altima the exact same week I bought the G6. We spent nearly the same amount of money but I got...


Did you buy the Pontiac because you could get a better deal on it?

[SimpleS14]

Does anyone think UAW has a negative affect on GM as well? They are draining GM's money and gives really doesn't give employees the incentives to be more productive. Cutting jobs is one of the best options they can do...but getting rid of UAW would be even better...but I doubt thats possible.

They should continue with the Zeta platform....they should realize RWD cars sell now-a-days. If the Kappa platform is a success...it should open up their eyes to continue on the Zeta platform or atleast work with other subsudaries to complete the platform. For example this car that's a joint-venture with Holden...

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_2008_Buick_Lausanne.S178.A8183.html

[M_TYPE_X]

Cancelling the Zeta program might have been a very big mistake.

The Buick Lausanne and/or the Pontiac G8 may or may not happen. It's not clear at this time.

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Consumer reports was frankly unkind to Nissan about it's reliability.



Don't listen to consumer reports, at least on auto's. They race the thing around the track for 24 hours straight. Most cars aren't built for a 24 hour endurance race. Manufacturers spend millions on race programs for that one race in France every year and sometimes don't even finish.

Show me a nissan that has long-term reliability issues, even before ghosn, and I'll show you GM without the UAW.

[M_TYPE_X]

I'll show you GM without the UAW.



Look who's pandering to the people who think Buick and Pontiac can be saved! Look who's doing that! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

... it's okay, throw some hot dogs on the grille, pull up a beer, and tell me the way you REALLY feel about the UAW and how GM can magically shake them off & come to the glorious new paradise of Detroit automaking. No, really, I want to hear the dream. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Nismo]

They should continue with the Zeta platform....they should realize RWD cars sell now-a-days.


RWD Luxury cars have always sold well and probably will continue to sell well in spite of higher oil prices.

Near-luxury cars are trickier to predict--depends more on the specific model and the demographic you're targeting.

Bread-and-butter passenger cars are where the real money is made in the car market, and these vehicles are far more price-sensitive to oil prices (i.e. fuel economy matters in this segment). With no one predicting oil prices to come down long term, and many predicting further increases, the biggest money will continue to be invested in FWD.

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

That's all it is: a dream.

We all know its not going to happen. And as for detroit, there's no hope with King Kwame at the helm. But hey, it's "their city."

[M_TYPE_X]

That's all it is: a dream.

We all know its not going to happen. And as for detroit, there's no hope with King Kwame at the helm. But hey, it's "their city."



They still have Poletown.

"Spitting at your face back-atcha, white boy!"

[CodeRedS]

I bet the resale value of a new Altima will beat the G6 in a few years.

People who got Grand Ams a few years ago for $5000 off sticker [around 18K] are not going to suddenly pay $25K for a new car. Especially when they are upside down after trading in a few times.