Throttle Body Porting

[wperdigon]

Hey guys - I was wondering about porting Throttle bodies for the 350z -

I know that with my Spec V the gain is around 3whp and it's very cost effecient - considering that I would be doing it myself and it's about an hour's worth of labor -

I also wanted to know if there is someone who does this for the 350z community and if not -what would you guys be willing to pay to have it done? I'm considering starting to do this and have people send me the t/b's to port -

feedback and input please guys

[idrive]

sounds like a plan... I'd say $60-$100 would be fair.

On a seperate note...sorry about Jensen not calling on Sunday, he was being stubourn about it for some reason. He made progress and ruled out the pump, sending unit, etc, but he is still having trouble getting it to start.

Anyhow I may need you services for a power steering line on my Z32. I'll let you know more later because I am not sure if its something I'm going to bother with.

[wperdigon]

sounds like a plan... I'd say $60-$100 would be fair.

On a seperate note...sorry about Jensen not calling on Sunday, he was being stubourn about it for some reason. He made progress and ruled out the pump, sending unit, etc, but he is still having trouble getting it to start.

Anyhow I may need you services for a power steering line on my Z32. I'll let you know more later because I am not sure if its something I'm going to bother with.



Lester - it's cool - I tried to give you a call but to no avail. I can help whenever it's needed - just let me know

I was thinking about charging 75 bucks for the work - combined with the shipping to and from the owners and porting the t/b I think it's fair.

Can some other people please provide some feedback

[palmerwmd]

I'll do it.

Fred.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[wperdigon]

I'll do it.

Fred.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif



good to hear - i have a second t/b at the moment and when I get the right tools and an email back from a person about it with some tips on it I will let you know -

William

[ppith]

If you do pull this off, provide pictures, paypal info, dyno sheet, etc from your first customer besides yourself (before/after). Thanks, the price seems reasonable.

[wperdigon]

If you do pull this off, provide pictures, paypal info, dyno sheet, etc from your first customer besides yourself (before/after). Thanks, the price seems reasonable.




well i'm working on this concept - i just got a spare t'b and once i get more information i will be doing this -

[Deathmage]

what's a throttle body porting? I was looking at my throttle body the other day, and dunno how you can mod it.

[idrive]

much like porting a cylinder head, you increase the inner diameter of the throttle body to allow more air flow, this is usually done with some sort of boring method.

Done in conjunction with an air intake exhaust and a plenum should make for a significant gain. In this case its pretty cost effective and is a mod that will help no matter which power adding method you choose.

[wperdigon]

basically what tt said with some minor burrs in the t'b to make the air more turbulent - I have now 2 spare t'b's to try this out - I think that I will be working on one today to see how I can do this -

[helldorado]

Not to be a downer, I'm not sure if you'll get much out of porting the TB. From what I've seen, the airflow issues arise in the intake plenum. People are putting down 650+ whp with the stock TB.

The key is you might want to perform the throttle valve closed position learning and idle air volume learning service procedures after its done. That should help maximize any gains you get out of it. Good luck!

[wperdigon]

OK -

So today I went down to the shop with the two spare t/b's I have and we ported them out -

Using a dye caliper I measured the inner circumference and the thickness of the walls all the way through -

I used one of the t/bs as a testing/learning one - and then the real test - with the second one -

I won't get into much detail but I ported about 10-20% of the inner circumference away from the throttle body - I tapered the ends and increased the diameter as I moved away from the plate -

upon install I disconnected the batter before anything - changed the t/b's and put it all back together - start up was a breaze - no problems with the idle but just for safe measure I did do the idle relearn after at least 5 key cycles -

my overall impression was that of a minor if noticeable loss on the bottom end while the top side seems to rev a little smother and a slit bit faster - defenitly worth doing

now here is a question - how many people would consider sending me the t/b and having this done? and what would be a reasonable price? keep in mind i used shop tools for this and it took about two hours to do

[helldorado]

Awesome. What were the original and final diameters on both ends of the TB?

[Deathmage]

Interesting thread. Does anybody know if there's even an air restriction on the Throttle body Valve?? If there isn't, 'porting' will not give us any gains at all. In fact, it'll have a negative effect.. as if there was a leakage.

p.s. the restriction appears to be only in the plenums, and the throttle body has no trouble passing the air through. Maybe if our plenum was about 3 feet tall, then we may have to enlarge that sucker.. just my take... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[wperdigon]

Awesome. What were the original and final diameters on both ends of the TB?




the the die caliper the ends were .338 on the top - and about the same all the way around - when i was done - the ends were .254 and into .289 more towards the center of the t/b

[wperdigon]

Interesting thread. Does anybody know if there's even an air restriction on the Throttle body Valve?? If there isn't, 'porting' will not give us any gains at all. In fact, it'll have a negative effect.. as if there was a leakage.



unless you can make the air more turbulent as it will allow for more cfm into the plentum

[Deathmage]

Interesting thread. Does anybody know if there's even an air restriction on the Throttle body Valve?? If there isn't, 'porting' will not give us any gains at all. In fact, it'll have a negative effect.. as if there was a leakage.



unless you can make the air more turbulent as it will allow for more cfm into the plentum



hmmmm.. I think turbulance, or inconsistency of air intake would create dips in the power curve. The air should be be flowing consistently and freely. Maybe I'm misunderstand you and you're talking about amplifying the air intake? Which ever the case, I'm very curious to find out some results.. where are the guinea pigs at? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ChicagoX]

I'm interested as well.

[helldorado]

Interesting thread. Does anybody know if there's even an air restriction on the Throttle body Valve?? If there isn't, 'porting' will not give us any gains at all. In fact, it'll have a negative effect.. as if there was a leakage.



unless you can make the air more turbulent as it will allow for more cfm into the plentum



hmmmm.. I think turbulance, or inconsistency of air intake would create dips in the power curve. The air should be be flowing consistently and freely. Maybe I'm misunderstand you and you're talking about amplifying the air intake? Which ever the case, I'm very curious to find out some results.. where are the guinea pigs at? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



That was part of my initial questioning. If the TB was even a restriction point in the first place. I would think a smooth air pathway would be better than a rough surface. One of the goals of the intake is to keep the air flow as straight as possible as turbulent air doesn't flow as quickly and make as much power.

But polishing the TB after porting should be sufficient. I think a slight P&P of the upper and lower plenums with the TB, and lets throw a spacer on too. That should be max airflow. Loss of low end torque might not be unsurprising in exchange for some higher end gains. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Overall, its well worth it to try it out and see how this works.

[wperdigon]

Deathmage -

From what I understand of my two years in aeronatical science from when I was in the air force - turbulence can allow for a higher flow rate of air allow the air tocompact itself somewhat -

this method that i did for the spec v (keeping in mind it wasn't done on the 350z - but I would expect the same results) yielded 2-3 whp on the top - dyno proven

http://gallery.thevboard.com/showpic.php?dispsize=Original&album=wperdigon&pic= Throttle%20Body%20Port%20Dyno.bmp

now again - these are results of what one person was doing about a year ago but he decided to quit doing business because it wasn't worth it to him (according to his site) for the part time business that he was running -

considering that I decided to take up the slack are start learning and porting them - what do you guys think?

[wperdigon]

just as an update - I did this for another 2 more cars and the result seems to be the same - the bottom end seems to not really be affected as much as a smoother top end transition -

[wperdigon]

Interesting thread. Does anybody know if there's even an air restriction on the Throttle body Valve?? If there isn't, 'porting' will not give us any gains at all. In fact, it'll have a negative effect.. as if there was a leakage.



unless you can make the air more turbulent as it will allow for more cfm into the plentum



hmmmm.. I think turbulance, or inconsistency of air intake would create dips in the power curve. The air should be be flowing consistently and freely. Maybe I'm misunderstand you and you're talking about amplifying the air intake? Which ever the case, I'm very curious to find out some results.. where are the guinea pigs at? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



you should be my guiene pig - send me your t/b and i will port it for free as and as a result you can voice your own opinions of the result -

[Deathmage]

hmmmm.. I think turbulance, or inconsistency of air intake would create dips in the power curve. The air should be be flowing consistently and freely. Maybe I'm misunderstand you and you're talking about amplifying the air intake? Which ever the case, I'm very curious to find out some results.. where are the guinea pigs at? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif



you should be my guiene pig - send me your t/b and i will port it for free as and as a result you can voice your own opinions of the result -



[/QUOTE]
that's a very generous offer and thanks! I normally would do it in a heartbeat, as I love trying out new stuff, but my daily driver's got a blown engine and I need to nurse my z with my life! WHO'S NEXT IN LINE?! Give this man your TB for the future of our Zs! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wperdigon]

well somebody just needs to get to me and let me know - i will do one for free in order for a second opinion - ya know

[helldorado]

Is this open to the G35 guys too? I'm tempted, but I'm a little wary because I want to eventually go FI and I'm not sure if I want to reduce the structural integrity by thinning the side walling and then push 7-10 psi through it.

You could always ask on the G35 side, see if there are any takers. Tempted, but waffling. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[palmerwmd]

Good question:

Is the part exactly the same from 350Z to G35 (or M35 for that matter)?

As for structural integrity:
TB porting is a time honored, proven, method to safely extract a little extra power.
If anything, I wouldnt be surprised, if the gains are even better on FI.

Fred.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[wperdigon]

Is this open to the G35 guys too? I'm tempted, but I'm a little wary because I want to eventually go FI and I'm not sure if I want to reduce the structural integrity by thinning the side walling and then push 7-10 psi through it.

You could always ask on the G35 side, see if there are any takers. Tempted, but waffling. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



heldorado/palmer -

i would say that if the intentions are to do force induction through it then i would be more cautious on how much i reduce - but I would still recommend it as i would suspect the gains are better for forced induction -

and yes the part should be the same for the g35 as it is on the z