Chapter 1- Converting from Supercharger to TT

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/DSC00570_M_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Eagle1's Coupe looking lean and mean in the paddock - soon to be even meaner!</font> http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Here is what I am going to do:

Jim Wolf twin turbo, intercooled, using Garrett ball bearing Sport 530 turbos
Redeck, bore and hone block
Balance crankshaft and polish journals
Heads ported and polished
Pauter rods (E-4340 chrome-moly forged)
Nismo main and rod bearings
Nismo rod bolts
CP Pistons at 8.5 to 1 static compression
Ceramic coating on piston skirts and tops
Nismo Main studs and Head studs
JWT valve springs
JWT racing cams (550)
Ported exhaust and intake runners
Stillen oil cooler
550+ fuel injectors
250 upgraded fuel pump
Nismo boost controlled fuel regulator
Split Second timing box

Strut tower brace bars for the front and rear are being fabricated as well. The front in particular should prove to be an interesting bit of work that others may be wanting to look at carefully. Also will switch out to a lightweight Odyssey battery.


On the wheels I am going to run Nitto NT-01 rubber sized 275/35/18 in the front, and 315/30/18 in the rear. The car is being dropped off at VRT in San Diego for the build this Saturday, and will be ready for me to run at LS on the 20th of January (that is the plan anyway). I am going for the larger footsies because with that much power it will help to put it down and reduce wheel spin. How much power?

500rwhp and 500 lbft rw torque on between ten and eleven psi boost will be the tune. We can go much higher, but I want a track car, not a dyno queen, and at this point that is about the max that I think makes sense......if any person could rationally argue in fact that any of this makes "sense"!! I also want a measure of durability and reliability for the track, and with these spec parts they should be able to handle that very easily.

Hopefully it will not rain at LS so I can run it. I think this will get some real attention up there!

Why do this? Number one, and let us be very clear about this, the ATI supercharger has been a great unit. I have 22,500 miles on it TROUBLE FREE. Conservatively tuned and religiously maintained, it has delivered to every expectation and demand applied to it. And the car has really screamed (literally and figuratively) around tracks up and down the state of California for two years.

Number two, I have gone to a half dozen racing lessons and school days, and practiced in my own car now, and whereas before the beast had more than I could handle and I was afraid of it, now I can handle it and merely have a very healthy respect and regard for it......(well maybe just a little afraid!) But now there is some confidence, hopefully not misplaced, that this additional capability will be something I can safely step up to.

Why not go to more boost with the SC on the rebuild instead of going turbo?
I cannot get comfortable on this set up that simply changing the pulley and forcing more air and fuel is going to work effectively. I have not come across anyone that is doing it reliably. And thus we really have an evolutionary thing that is independent of the units, and that is that for a street car that has civility, yet track capability, the bolt on ATI is a fine choice. But as one transitions, in this car and at this point in time, to a car with a bit more track capability and a bit less street civility, the balance turns to the turbo. The small units will spool quicker and lag less, hopefully almost imperceptibly, and give the substantial increase in torque and hp in the midrange that I am looking for. We are going to find out, because this will give very direct comparison impressions on the same car and same driver, with the different FI approaches.

So, this thread will document the conversion process, we will get pics of the unit and its installation, and of course that will all be followed with my typical track outings and videos so you can ride along and see for yourselves.

Buckle up for this one, it is going to be on the edge of extreme.

[al503]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Riffster]

Whoa! This is going to be a fun and informative piece for those of the FA community interested in forced induction or any serious modding!

Even those who intend to do more modest modifications or even stay stock can learn and just plain appreciate what a seriously outfitted G35C can do.

I'm on the edge of my keyboard! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Can't wait to see the strut tower braces your shop has come up with. Probably not for any coupes not seriously tracking (and tracking with POWER.) But Eagle1 - you'll probably be able to play music on that coupe it'll be strung so tight.

So many questions ... okay, I'll behave.

- Riff

[helldorado]

Congrats on the decision and good luck. Definitely looking forward to seeing what the end results are and how you enjoy your "new" coupe! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Couple questions though...
<ul type="square[/img] I'm assuming that 500/500 mark is going to be with 100+ octane race fuel and not regular 91? And if it will be with race fuel, are you going to try and do a setup for a second A/F mapping for a high octane mode?
What made you decide on JWT vs GReddy, APS, Power Enterprise, etc...
Are you rolling the fenders or getting custom body/suspension work done to handle the 315 rubber?
Are you going to replace the Borla exhaust with something a bit more free flowing and turbo friendly?
I thought JWT hadn't passed CARB approval yet, so what are you going to do about emissions in CA?
Who's fabricating the STB's?
Are you going to run a baseline dyno with the car as is, before they strip the ATI unit so you can make a comparison between the the setups in a short timeframe?
[/list]
Ok, I think thats it for now. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif If anybody out there can have a pragmatic and well thought out approach to doing a well-balanced TT setup it would definitely be you, Eagle. Can't wait to see the pics!

[palmerwmd]

I am watching this carefully.

I also currently runa ATI with good results albeit not trouble free...

Cant wait to see it done, please have them take MANY PICTURES of the work performed.

If the write-up is detailed and illustrated enough here on freshalloy, we might make it an article even...

Fred.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[paemt]

If the write-up is detailed and illustrated enough here on freshalloy, we might make it an article even...

Fred.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif



That would be awesome!! That car sounds like it will be a killer on the track!

Chad

[Wheresmyblower]

I will live vicariously through you since my 3 daughters cut into (I mean deplete) my mod budget. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All the HP stuff is cool, but I have to confess I'm most looking forward to the visual, i.e. seeing a Coupe with 315's in the rear. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/DSC00574_M_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Interior of Eagle1's car, showing the roll cage, harness bar and his Sparco Milano racing seats with Sparco harnesses.</font>

As always, you laser in on key issues!

Let's go through each one, point by point. I will try to do this with all inquiries, but bear in mind that sometimes I may have to revert to the real pros for some of the questions, because it is always a big learning curve...the more we learn, the more we learn we do not know. Having unlimited potential in this regard is fine...having none of it become realized is not!

1. Yes. We are going to do two fuel maps, one for running premium pump gas, and one for the 100 octane unleaded race gas available at the tracks out here.

2. Several factors, and some of them are of course subjective or qualitative and others might choose otherwise.
I like JWT products in general, the stuff he makes, modifies or uses tends to just flat out "work". While we all want to learn and know as much as we can, doing what a pro who has spent his life at this does is not a bad place to start.
I like the smaller units for quicker spool up and bringing on power sooner, and it appears to me that the power of these units is in the band where the car is going to be living and operating on the track. Also, this set up reduces lag and is more responsive than a bigger unit(s). I talked to Dave O and looked at his testing of the various units on torque and hp, which he published in Sport Z Mag as well. There really is not any question about having to go with a ball bearing unit, but as among them, and for what I was looking for in useable hp, that leads one backwards to the unit that will best deliver it. IF I wanted 800hp....the choice would be different. I will get some detail on the units and we can post them up. This is not a decision that says these 530's are the best and everything else is second or worse. This is a decision that for what I am defining as my objective, this seems to be what will deliver it best.

3.That is on the agenda for discussion tomorrow with the builders. It is possible to cram a bigger tire on a smaller rim, and get fitment without a lot of body or suspension adjustments that have to be made with a bigger rim. But there are issues with doing that, and quite frankly I do not yet have a solution that I am comfortable with. So we will be reporting back on how that is addressed once I have it resolved to my satisfaction, which at present it is not. I can run the 275/35 all around on 18 inch rims right now, using a 3mm spacer up front only. I have in fact done that and it really works well. (I need that spacer to keep from rubbing the upper control arm). Getting the extra treadwidth in back to put more rubber down for the power would be a good idea it seems, but it may not be totally necessary. I have some upcoming discussions with some tire techs at Nitto before I make the call on that one as well, because wider is not always better, and we want the optimal balance. For the NT-01 that I want to run, if I do not do the 315, then I have to step all the way down to the 275, at least based on the sizes I can locate at this time. Another part of that discussion with Nitto will be whether other sizes may be possible.

4. I am going to see how the Borla does before upping the cost with another catback. It has been fine on the ATI unit, and it is very light in weight. But that is with 360rwhp as opposed to the targeted 500rwhp. It has a bunch of connections though, so replacement is a possibilty, it is just a lower priority concern at the moment.

5. Shhhh. Don't tell anyone! Actually the ATI is not carb certified for the G or Z yet either. It has a CARB plate number on it...but I don't think it is approved for this car. So I am not changing my problem there at all. The fact is, the problem is the same for everyone in California with FI on their cars from units that do not have CARB approval. It will probably pass emissions, indeed in some cases they run cleaner than stock, but it may not pass visual. If I have to, I will put the car on a trailer and go to the tracks because that is the direction that I am going eventually in all likelihood. You get three years in Calif before you have to take a new car in. So the thrill for the community of FI enthusiasts in G and Z cars is about to begin in Calif this coming spring, when the first inspection dependent registration renewals start to get mailed. This is not the place to get bent out of shape over the attitude of the DMV and the People's Republik of California. It is what it is. I would like to be 29 years old and have more of my hair back, but that is not going to happen either!!!!

5. The builder is fabricating the braces. The rear is easy, but the front is a custom one that they have been working up. It is almost, but not quite, there. We are going to try to have the first one on this car. It may not work out to our satisfaction and thus not happen. But with this much power and the chassis flex from tracking, it is a very desireable mod if we can get one to work under the stock hood. When that one is ready, we will get you pictures and details.

6. Had not been planning on it. Only so much money for curiousity is worth spending. And a dyno pull on the old unit is not that necessary. The comparison is not really fair because the new one is not the same motor with SC and then with TT, it is a built motor with the TT versus the old motor with the SC. That pretty much takes time comparability out of material relevance. But if you really want to know and send me a check for the dyno, I can tell the lads to do it!!!

I don't have all the answers to all the questions. But we are all going to get a lot of answers to a lot of questions as we rumble through this process together. Hopefully, we do not forget to ask the questions we really need to be asking. Thus, I am open in this forum to using the build process to enhance all of our community knowledge about our cars. I will be "stupid" about some of this from time to time. That is ok with me. Just bear with me while in the process you help me to get more "smart"!
Cheers.
Ed

[D_Nyholm]

Wow!! This is going to be one exciting thread!!

Just one question...Did you ever look at the Ariel Atom?? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Can't really drive it on the street too comfortably, but supercharge that bad boy and you'll feel like you are in an Enzo!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Riffster]

Thanks Eagle1 for addressing each issue here in a point-by-point manner! (and thanks to Helldorado for asking this initial questions as well.)

I would say that selecting JWT for the turbo is not unwise at all - Nissan/Infiniti is what Jim Wolf 'does' - period. If there is any single authority on honing performance on Nissan/Infiniti engines outside of the Nissan factory itself, it is JWT.

Okay, from a far less knowledgeable person here are some follow-ups for Eagle1 to consider (or not!) when he posts a follow-up.

1) Are fuel maps easy to change? What is involved in changing the mapping?

2) Why are the GT30R turbos used instead of, oh lets say GT35R? Smaller turbos = less lag? Less chance of 'surge' at the comp wheel? I am sure JWT has considered this carefully, I just want to make sure I understand the concepts behind the execution.

3) What, if any, modifications will be needed to your gauge setup for the ATI?

4) I assume that lag is greatly minimized so you feel comfortable about using a turbocharge instead of a supercharger on the track? Have you had a chance to experience any vehicle they have already modified? What brings up the question - how many G35's or 350z's have been fitted with this new offering from JWT? In other words - how close to the 'edge' are you? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

5) Practical stuff - what, if any, warranty does VRT/JWT give you on the unit? How close is VRT to you in case of issues or can Performance Nissan or another dealer/shop help you with issues?

That's it for now - I think it's time to get Corky Bell's book on turbocharging!

- Riff

P.S. To Dennis (D_Nyholm) - Eagle1 did look closely at the Atom - but the AWESOME layout he wanted was big bucks (lets say it was many times more what he will be spending on the coupe to modify it) and he does have other parts of his life that need 'investment'!

[trebien]

Truth is, when all is said and done... his power/weight ratio will probably be similar to an Enzo. Less HP, but more T.

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I have been researching FI as well... couple of thoughts:

<ul type="square[/img] Why not the new UTEC ECU? Total control, as opposed to piggy-backing ECU signals. Seems like the best ECU at the moment. Sell your current ECU with the ATI as a package.
315 rears? Wow. Hope they fit... I doubt 275 are a viable option. Why are you stuck on Nitto's? Just curious...
Since you have a coupe... maybe check out the new Tanabe Sustec 7 Pro/TEAS controller. Looks promising.[/list]

Just things I would consider...

Have fun - I know you will. Nice thing, is the power delivery should not be too different than what you are used to... no question, JWT has excelent history with Nissan vehicles, and this TT setup is the most trackable IMO.

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[helldorado]

As always, you laser in on key issues!

Let's go through each one, point by point. I will try to do this with all inquiries, but bear in mind that sometimes I may have to revert to the real pros for some of the questions, because it is always a big learning curve...the more we learn, the more we learn we do not know. Having unlimited potential in this regard is fine...having none of it become realized is not!



Yeah, most of the questions I have really just come from areas that have crossed my mind while I've been researching and debating what the best path for myself is. I definitely agree with you as well, there is so much to learn and take into consideration, its impossible to know it all and it as long as you realize there is something else to learn, you'll be all right. I think discussing these topics will help me confirm or dismiss my ideas on the direction I plan to go and should hopefully pass some info on to everybody else as well!



2. Several factors, and some of them are of course subjective or qualitative and others might choose otherwise.
I like JWT products in general, the stuff he makes, modifies or uses tends to just flat out "work". While we all want to learn and know as much as we can, doing what a pro who has spent his life at this does is not a bad place to start.
I like the smaller units for quicker spool up and bringing on power sooner, and it appears to me that the power of these units is in the band where the car is going to be living and operating on the track. Also, this set up reduces lag and is more responsive than a bigger unit(s). I talked to Dave O and looked at his testing of the various units on torque and hp, which he published in Sport Z Mag as well. There really is not any question about having to go with a ball bearing unit, but as among them, and for what I was looking for in useable hp, that leads one backwards to the unit that will best deliver it. IF I wanted 800hp....the choice would be different. I will get some detail on the units and we can post them up. This is not a decision that says these 530's are the best and everything else is second or worse. This is a decision that for what I am defining as my objective, this seems to be what will deliver it best.



I think you made the right choice going with the JWT TT setup with your performance criteria. Having a dyno queen is great for bragging rights, but since drivability and track capability is your main concern, I think it fits the bill perfectly. I hope you didn't take my question as "oh, you should've gone with kit x..." as much as I was just curious what it was about the kit that was appealling to you!


3.That is on the agenda for discussion tomorrow with the builders. It is possible to cram a bigger tire on a smaller rim, and get fitment without a lot of body or suspension adjustments that have to be made with a bigger rim. But there are issues with doing that, and quite frankly I do not yet have a solution that I am comfortable with. So we will be reporting back on how that is addressed once I have it resolved to my satisfaction, which at present it is not. I can run the 275/35 all around on 18 inch rims right now, using a 3mm spacer up front only. I have in fact done that and it really works well. (I need that spacer to keep from rubbing the upper control arm). Getting the extra treadwidth in back to put more rubber down for the power would be a good idea it seems, but it may not be totally necessary. I have some upcoming discussions with some tire techs at Nitto before I make the call on that one as well, because wider is not always better, and we want the optimal balance. For the NT-01 that I want to run, if I do not do the 315, then I have to step all the way down to the 275, at least based on the sizes I can locate at this time. Another part of that discussion with Nitto will be whether other sizes may be possible.



Running 315 width tires was something I had considered as a possibility if future mods required that much rubber to the ground to provide traction. So wheels were going to be last on the mod list until I came to a favorable solution. What ended up killing that idea was I wasn't comfortable running 315 on a 10.5" wide rim when it really should be on a 12-13". A lot of people put on wider than spec tires, but I think you lose a lot in sidewall stability and strength as it rounds them out and you end up with (___) or /___\ for tires instead of |___|. To go to an extra wide rim would require either a full widebody kit (that was not going to happen) or custom fabrication around the fenders and wheel wells. I'm not ready to make that kind of investment, nor does pushing the extra weight out that much farther seem like a great idea. Adds more stress on the wheel bearings and axles than I would like. Part of my plan to resolve the issue of traction is to go with a Quaife ATBD so that optimum torque should be applied to both wheels at all times. I know you already have a LSD, so I'm not sure if costs of switching and rebuilding your rear assembly are necessarily justifiable at this time. However, if yours has discs that will need replacing, once those are worn, that could be the time to consider that again!

In regards to the other points, I think/hope the Borla will work to hit your goals. Not all of the exhausts with 2.5" tubing can hit 500 whp. As you said, it shouldn't be a priority until it becomes a hinderance! Hopefully things are OK when you are up for inspection. NJ is strict like CA, but there are always workarounds. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I think like everybody else, I'm interested to see what the fabricator can come up with. Probably the coolest new development of it all!

And I would've sent you a check for the dyno, but I'm spending it on my own dyno on Saturday so I can see the gains I got from my underdrive pulley. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif


That's it for now - I think it's time to get Corky Bell's book on turbocharging!



Ha! I ordered that 2 weeks ago. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Riffster]

<ul type="square[/img] Why not the new UTEC ECU? Total control, as opposed to piggy-backing ECU signals. Seems like the best ECU at the moment. Sell your current ECU with the ATI as a package.
315 rears? Wow. Hope they fit... I doubt 275 are a viable option. Why are you stuck on Nitto's? Just curious...
Since you have a coupe... maybe check out the new Tanabe Sustec 7 Pro/TEAS controller. Looks promising.[/list]





Not to jump in ahead of Eagle1 but I think I can help on these questions. If he needs to correct me I am sure he will!

<ul type="square[/img]

I'm not going to address the technical merits of the respective ECUs - you and Eagle1 probably know far more than me on that! However, I believe that the piggyback ECU is what JWT mandates for install of its turbocharger kit for the G35/350Z - anything else would be custom and might either endanger the warranty (if any) or might require additional testing and tuning.

Why Nitto? Eagle1 and Nitto have working together - I believe they are a sponsor of his car. See his coupe (and him!) on a Nitto promotional video in the Multi Media Forum. Eagle1/Nitto Video Thread (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=MultiMedia&amp;Number=68044716 &amp;page=0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)

We're ALL salivating over the Tanabe offering - the 'dynamic' nature of it and Tanabe quality can't be beat. Even I am considering taking off the Flex/EDFC that I have, selling it, and then putting in the Sustec 7 Pro w/TEAS. But how much money do you want (Eagle1) to spend? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/list]

- Riff

[InfinitiFanatik]

3.That is on the agenda for discussion tomorrow with the builders. It is possible to cram a bigger tire on a smaller rim, and get fitment without a lot of body or suspension adjustments that have to be made with a bigger rim. But there are issues with doing that, and quite frankly I do not yet have a solution that I am comfortable with. So we will be reporting back on how that is addressed once I have it resolved to my satisfaction, which at present it is not. I can run the 275/35 all around on 18 inch rims right now, using a 3mm spacer up front only. I have in fact done that and it really works well. (I need that spacer to keep from rubbing the upper control arm). Getting the extra treadwidth in back to put more rubber down for the power would be a good idea it seems, but it may not be totally necessary. I have some upcoming discussions with some tire techs at Nitto before I make the call on that one as well, because wider is not always better, and we want the optimal balance. For the NT-01 that I want to run, if I do not do the 315, then I have to step all the way down to the 275, at least based on the sizes I can locate at this time. Another part of that discussion with Nitto will be whether other sizes may be possible.





Well I have been using this board recently for interest in my 06 M45 Sport, but I got curious what was going on with the G's since I did have an 04 6MT Coupe, so I thought I'd drop by and see what is going on in the G world. I kinda wish I still had it as a project car. Anyhow, I just thought I would mention I have a friend with an 04 coupe, and 19" Maya RT5's (gorgeous gorgeous rims by the way) running 285 fronts and 315 rears with no fender rolling or spacers whatsoever. Plenty of room and it looks HOT!

[InfinitiFanatik]

Running 315 width tires was something I had considered as a possibility if future mods required that much rubber to the ground to provide traction. So wheels were going to be last on the mod list until I came to a favorable solution. What ended up killing that idea was I wasn't comfortable running 315 on a 10.5" wide rim when it really should be on a 12-13". A lot of people put on wider than spec tires, but I think you lose a lot in sidewall stability and strength as it rounds them out and you end up with (___) or /___\ for tires instead of |___|. To go to an extra wide rim would require either a full widebody kit (that was not going to happen) or custom fabrication around the fenders and wheel wells. I'm not ready to make that kind of investment, nor does pushing the extra weight out that much farther seem like a great idea. Adds more stress on the wheel bearings and axles than I would like. Part of my plan to resolve the issue of traction is to go with a Quaife ATBD so that optimum torque should be applied to both wheels at all times. I know you already have a LSD, so I'm not sure if costs of switching and rebuilding your rear assembly are necessarily justifiable at this time. However, if yours has discs that will need replacing, once those are worn, that could be the time to consider that again!





I dont think this is true. In fact i believe 10.5" is the proper size for 315's. My X5 4.6is runs 9.5x20 front and 10.5x20 rear, with 275/315 Michelin rubber - stock!

[Eagle1]

Thanks for the idea, and I will check them out. Do you have any idea how much they weigh, and are they one piece forged, or other construction? I would like to keep the wheel weight to under 19 pounds and that gets tough with 19 inch diameters. I would like a smaller diameter rim for track use if possible, as 19 inches starts to put the weight out pretty far from center. The major problem is that the DOT-R rubber is typically 17 and 18 inch diameter, so for a street set up this could be good, but not for track..

[Riffster]

I dont think this is true. In fact i believe 10.5" is the proper size for 315's. My X5 4.6is runs 9.5x20 front and 10.5x20 rear, with 275/315 Michelin rubber - stock!



I was checking out the Michelin and Nitto sites and it seems that InfinitiFanatik is correct. The approved rim width for Nitto's 315/30ZR18 NT-01 Race Tire is 10.5 - 11.5. And it is almost the same with Michelin's Sport Cup race-compound tire at the 315/30ZR18 rim width range where they specify 10.5 - 12.0.

Only when you get to the real fatties at 335 does the approved minimum rim width increase to above 10.5".

Eagle1 - why not look at the SSR Comp-H's?

They make 18 x 9 for the 275's in front and a 18 x 10.5 for the 315's in the rear. What's best is the weight - the 18x10.5 is only 19.4 pounds! I would assume that the 18x9 is even less.

They are 'semi-solid forged' - a 2-piece 'forged' wheel. It's basically a method of wheel manufacture only SSR uses - it is explained here (http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/ssr/ssr_info.jsp).

Handsome wheel too!

Hope that helps Eagle1.

- Riff

[Eagle1]

As usual there are some terrific points raised.

Tanabe "dynamic" suspension. Oh boy does that ever look tantalizing! But it is not inexpensive by any means, and I have the Tein flex with the edfc like Riff, so I think that I would want to take a ride in a car equipped with it before tearing out the one for the other.

The same holds true for the Nismo locker lsd that I have, and whether to rip it out for a quaife. My conclusion for the time being is that it is not worth doing that, not at this time anyway.

Rather, the focus is going to be limited for now with the attainment of power and torque, and putting it down, as opposed to the handling and braking that I have already spent a lot of time and effort on.

It is likely that, assuming the power sought is achieved and can be delivered as desired, the car will perform in a different and more radical envelope than it did before (that is after all the idea!) and that will then expose potential needs for changes that I may not presently perceive as necessary or even desireable. So it may come up, but not until I get a feel for what the car can do, not do, and why, after we do get the power.

[ChicagoX]

I can't wait to see those beautiful JWT parts on your coupe!!

How do you feel the OEM transmission will fare at the elevated (even for you http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif) power levels?

Besides any clutch issue you have already addressed, do you forsee any other potential 'weak links' in the driveline?

Can your Nismo LSD be adjusted for better manners with more power, or do you consider it "maxed out" with your current setup?

Thanks for sharing your project with us!

[helldorado]

I know its splitting hairs, but 275mm = 10.8" and 315mm = 12.4". I know the PS2's recommended a 11-12" rim for the 315 and no larger than 11" for the 275. Different manufacturers recommend different section widths, and Nitto is not a brand I'm overly familiar with. I also remember that for Sport Z's FI shootout, the Stillen car did have 305 Toyo Proxes rubber wrapped on a 9.5" wide rear wheel, and they said the car required fender modification. So let me recant a bit and say its not impossible, but I'd be hesitant to do it. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


Tanabe "dynamic" suspension. Oh boy does that ever look tantalizing! But it is not inexpensive by any means, and I have the Tein flex with the edfc like Riff, so I think that I would want to take a ride in a car equipped with it before tearing out the one for the other.

The same holds true for the Nismo locker lsd that I have, and whether to rip it out for a quaife. My conclusion for the time being is that it is not worth doing that, not at this time anyway.



If we were to ever cross paths down the line, I should hopefully have by the end of the year have a rebuilt rear-end with the Quaife and a TEAS controlled Pro Seven for my suspension. I'd be more than happy to let you give it a shot!

[InfinitiFanatik]

Eagle1 and helldorado

The maya rims would most definitely be more of an aesthetic upgrade than a performance one. I believe the weight is around 22lbs. My point for mentioning was just that it is possible to fit 9.5" / 10.5" 285/315 wheel/tire setup with no fender rolling. Also theyre not cheap rims (4-5k for a set) but well worth it. Just for fun I have attached pictures of my friend's G with these gorgeous rims...interestingly, these pics are of his car with the 20" Mayas, which we decided made the wheel well look a little too "hollow" so we went to the 19s, though I dont have pics of those...but take my word for it, it looks a HELL of a lot better...the 20s begin to make the car look a little too "tricked out", while the 19s with like an inch drop it fills in the wheel well perfectly, and improves the appearance of the rotors/calipers relative to the rim spokes (with the 20's the rotors look kinda small)...either way EVERY single time I get in this car and drive around suburbia, we get NO LESS than 3 or 4 people waving, pointing, and commenting on the car, albeit most of the comments go something like this... "is that a REAL skyline?!?!" ... heheh
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/jeff4021/DSC05402.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/jeff4021/DSC05408.jpg

[Eagle1]

Those Mayas are seriously gorgeous, no doubt about it, and I agree that in 19" they will be a much better proportional fit. My "street wheel" is a 19" Enkei forged, five split spoke Adam Saruwatari wheel under the A&amp;L Racing label. It weighs 19 pounds and is not bad, but certainly nowhere near the bling of those Mayas.

But I need something really strong and really light, and the looks part gets pushed way down the priority stack, for the set up for the track. I am not familiar with the SSF technology that Riff has now educated me on, so time to get into the research mode and find out if they will have the performance thresholds that will make them a good choice. Riff and ChicagoX know better than anyone what it would be like to be in the Carousel of RoadAmerica and have a spoke "go" on you. The lateral torsion on the wheels is just unbelievable on the track, and you keep subjecting the wheel to that force lap after lap. What works superbly on the street can just tear apart on the course. Reflect on the forces on the front outside wheel as you go into your turn in, especially on fast turns like #1 at Big Willow that are banked, or the ROVAL at Cal Speedway in Fontana...135-150mph on a 14 degree angle, and on the rear wheels where you have some deliberate rotation of the chassis and four wheel drift with countersteer, like the Andretti Hairpin at Laguna Seca, or even turns 5 and 9 where you have throttle down and wheel steady but lateral slide at very considerable speed. I wonder if Nismo makes their wheel in 18" diameter and 10.5" rim width? That might be a good choice if they did. I have the 8.5 on the front and the 9.5 on the rear right now. I could just move the rears forward, and swap-trade up to the 10.5, or buy then and sell the front pair. With my karma they won't, but I will look. And I will look into those SSRs as well. Thanks guys.

[helldorado]

As an aside to SSR, I believe it was Tanabe who bought out Speed Star Racing and Speed Star Wheel (name and assets) after the Speed Star Company went bankrupt at the beginning of the year. I know there was some concern at first about pricing and quality, but I think it was a pretty smooth transition.

I have seen 18x10.5" LMGT4 wheels, but only through Gruppe-s.com with a +15 offset. Rays' website doesn't list specific sizing on Nismo wheels and NissanUSA.com only lists white/bronze in 18x8.5/9.5 sizes.

BTW Eagle, what are you guys using for your controller? E-Manage, UTEC? I was at my tuner today doing a dyno and we were talking about FI options and controllers, so it crossed my mind to ask!

[Riffster]

I share your caution in picking a wheel Eagle1 - the reason I have chosen the Kosei K-1 TS first and now the Enkei RPF01s for DE's is exactly what you speak - they're robust wheels despite their lack of weight. The RPF01's are used by competition drifters so they have to be strong - the forces exerted on them in those events equal or even exceed that of an HPDE.

But I check my brakes, wheels and tires after every session - incredible forces are indeed imparted to those components at RA. If I have an 'excursion' I ALWAYS pull into the pits regardless of whether I'm flagged - I WANT TO CHECK my car, specifically the brakes, wheels and suspension. It is not unheard of for wheels like even the RPF01s to get 'bent' over time when subjected the rigors of high performance driving.

Weight shouldn't be the biggest criteria - safety should be.

Dedicated track-only wheels might be another option Eagle1 - but the weight of the G coupe has to be considered. It should be the kind of wheel that a Viper or F-Body could use, not a Porsche or Mazda.

As to styling - that is secondary to me when it comes to a wheel for the track - does it do the job well?

Light and strong .... light and strong! Those are pretty much the criteria followed closely by cost.

So - have I heard about SSR Comp-H's failing - yes, I've read about it on other forums. Check these threads:

Comp-H Failure? (http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35261)

Another Post on Same Incident (http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63903)

That being said, one of the posters in the threads above brought up a valid point - sooner or later, you get into enough HPDE's you will encounter some issue - bending, or possibly even a crack.

Like all key components at a DE - brakes and tires being two other notable ones - wheels have to maintained and monitored. I honestly do not think the SSR's are any more prone to failure than other quality wheels when subjected to forces like the above.

Btw, SSR has a couple of other models as well that fit your criteria. They're heavier that the Comp-H's but are still relatively light when compared to most other wheels out there in those sizes (18x9 and 18x10.5) - The GT2-H and the GT3.

It's up to you - you have to feel confident in the wheels!

- Riff

[boones]

Thanks for the idea, and I will check them out. Do you have any idea how much they weigh, and are they one piece forged, or other construction? I would like to keep the wheel weight to under 19 pounds and that gets tough with 19 inch diameters. I would like a smaller diameter rim for track use if possible, as 19 inches starts to put the weight out pretty far from center. The major problem is that the DOT-R rubber is typically 17 and 18 inch diameter, so for a street set up this could be good, but not for track..



Ed is on the right track here. Rim weight matters of course, but not as much as diameter. Ultimately what matters is rotational moment of interia, which for a disk/hoop shaped object like a rim will be around mass * radius squared. Therefore, take a 17 inch rim and a 19 inch rim of the same weight and the 17 inch rim will have a much lower rotational moment of interia and hence will be easier for the car to speed up and slow down producing greater rates of acceleration and deceleration. You have to balance this with the size of the contact patch which will be larger for the larger rim.

[Eagle1]

The Summer 2005 edition of Sport Z Magazine, Volume 5, Issue 3 at page 38 has a very nice article comparing six different turbo systems (Greddy, Speed Force Racing, Air Power Systems, Jim Wolf Technology, Power Enterprise, Turbonetics) that you might want to read for a side by side comparison. My fellow California G35 buddies Wing Shum (photo) and Dave Ochenreider (editor and true scientific investigator) participated in the creation of that article and of course the tests. I will see if I can get Dave "0" to get on the thread and weigh in with some of his thoughts on the pros and cons of different set ups.
I have a correction to my earlier specs as well. Talking to the lads at VRT we are going with a pair of BB 550 Garrett, not a pair of 530. And we may go with Arias pistons instead of CP. Not a matter of preference on the pistons so much as the exigencies of availability, apparently.

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/DSC00572_M_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Eagle1's coupe interior - note custom-installed gauge clusters in console cubbyhole and upper glove compartment - note also tucked-away EDFC controller in shift console/armrest and V1 unit in ashtray. One can barely make out very front of passenger side impact bar low on that side's foot well.</font>

There was a lot of work to do at the end of the year, so I did not get back to all of the issues that were raised, and I will try to catch up here with them, and stay on top of them as best I can in the future.

Helldorado:
1)Comparison Dyno. The lads at VRT are going to throw in a "before and after" dyno testing and post the results for us. And we don't have to cut into the education or cloting fund for any of your three daughters to do it.
2)On the selection of the turbos I also had some discussion with people like Dave Ochenreider, did a lot of reading, and listening to as many informed opinions as I could locate. But there is another reason. The VRT guys were testing a set up on a G coupe at Cal Speedway a while back when I was there, and I got a chance to look over the installation and it was very nicely done. Talking with them it became clear that their objectives in set up were very much the same as mine....a civil and stealthy car of daily driver reliability that could handle itself with the best of the supercars on the track, at a much lower price overall. On the track that day, my car handled pretty well, but there were driver shortcomings apparent to me and that led to several race driving school programs for me to just get better. (I knew I needed to improve, but I had no idea just how much better I could get-or how bad I was-until going to school!) But there was another reason. Going down both the front straight and the infield straight, that black G coupe with their JWT TT on built motor just "walked" away. Rudely like a Park Avenue exec passes by a panhandler on the sidewalk. Guess which one I felt like!
3) Suspension is a critical item as we know. I can go to a full on performance suspension with JIC etc., but the car will then ride like a dump truck across a freshly furrowed cornfield. Keeping the street civility is an objective, and a compromise must be made. It is tough to balance it out...you really cannot "have it all". Otherwise race cars would have dvd players and champagne dispensers to keep the gorgeous model next to them happy while they drive Nurburgring. So compromises must be made. In my case........I am willing to lose the dvd player and keep the other two, even if I sacrifice a little speed.
4)The JWT does have its app in for CARB approval, as does Greddy. The others do not.

Palmer:
1)The VRT lads are going to do a lot of pics and video along the way to help supply us with visuals that you can use on the site and/or for an article. We also discussed putting a special place on their website for folks to visit to follow the build. Just let me know what you need and want and we can pass that along to them to see what they will be willing, and have the time and energy, to do to help out.

Dennis:
1)Ariel Atom. I am looking at it seriously. But the process has been longer than anticipated (that is not a surprise when trying to bring in a car from another country), and some of my questions and concerns have not been addressed. So while I remain very intrigued and interested, it is a track day only car and a different kind of investment level. In the meantime....I need a speed fix and this is a very cost effective way to do it. To sell the G and get a Track Car Only would involve taking a huge beating in the wallet. I think that for me at least, the better answer is to upgrade the G while still keeping its streetability, and campaign that at least for this next season, while continuing to look at a track offering and waiting for them to get the wrinkles out of their programs.
2)Chiron. That is another car that is very interesting as a track only offering. Even better performance than the Ariel.
Both of those are going to run you about $75k uncrated. Then you have to deal with parts, a trailer, and all the other accessories. So probably a cool $100k just to get yourself running. And you need a place to store and work on it. Are we going to have the time, let alone the resources to justify that type of investment (and boy are we ever using the term "investment" loosely there....more like "burn rate"). So sticking with the G upgrade is more prudent at the moment. IF it should transpire that my decision is to go that route, it will be based on more experience and preparedness than I have right this moment.

Riff:
1)Gauge changes. The Greddy EGT fried itself, so I have to replace it with a new one. Not sure what happened, but it is not working and it does not seem to be a probe or wire. The A/F meter from Greddy is worthless, does not work and I might as well have just taken it straight from the carton to the garbage pail. I may go to an AEM unit as a replacement. Otherwise, not planning to add any meters to what I have. I will send Riff a picture of my set up now and he can post it so you will see it is really not deficient in terms of affording quick info on the key areas required. (boost,oil pressure, fuel pressure, temp, and EGT...plus the J&amp;S Safeguard). The Tein EDFC is in the rolltop cubby and the V-1 readout remote in the ashtray.
2)On the "edge". I am going to have to learn to drive it, or manipulate the throttle, differently than the supercharger, no matter what. I do not know how I will react to that, but with the kind of power gains to be achieved, there is real incentive to keep an open mind and learn how. Once I get it on the track I will be able to report more intelligently on this feature. On the street it should actually be superior to the supercharger both in terms of noise and gas mileage.
3)VRT is about 150 miles away. I liked the lads when I met them at Cal Speedway, liked their approach, liked their car and what it did. Not more complicated than that. I am not into rap music and am an "old guy" so the web site did not have appeal for me personally. But we talk the same "car" so that is what matters.

ChicagoX:
The Nismo LSD is on the "middle" setting, again for the streetability. To put it all the way on would be to make it very nasty for the off track use. It will hold the power.

Whew. I think that catches up all the loose bits. I do not know the answer to the fuel map question Riff posed, so I will go to the VRT pros for how they are doing that.

Have a Happy New Year Everyone.

[Eagle1]

As long as we are in the zone of radical ideas and are willing to consider almost anything conceptually, before a combination of common sense and our wallets brings us back to earth and reality....what would you think of a bypass filter as part of the package? Make sense? Totally stupid?
Here is the link:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/by-pass.shtml

I have been aware of this unit for years. Typically, it makes no sense on a passenger car. Nor does it make sense on a race car. But here we have a daily driver with a built motor... a much bigger investment to protect... which is tuned to provide not just power, but reliabilty within the specs of what the car is now designed for. Longevity as well as performance is in fact a part of the design plan. With an oil cooler and my ARC pan this little baby is already going to run with 9.75 quarts of oil, but this system will filter out particles down to one tenth of one micron...as opposed to a typical 20 microns or larger. It is weight...but replacing the battery will offset that, and I can mount it low and more centered as well. (remember the JWT "twin" intercooler is butterflied out to be right behind the twin front bumper valences, so some of that area in front between them is now potentially available.)
What do you gents think? I know it is "out of the box", but that is part of what we are all trying to do to reach new standards.

[ChicagoX]

Interesting- I've only seen those on marine applications.

I'm a big proponent of additional insurance, or at least what little of it is available when speaking in racing terms. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In the same line of thought, have you considered an Accusump pre-oiler or after-oiler unit? They have both a racing and roadgoing history. Website (http://www.accusump.com)

Another product to consider would be a Fluidampr performance damper. Link (http://www.fluidampr.com/sport_compact.htm)

This company makes top-notch products; it might be a good addition to your high-horse, high-rpm monster.

[WA2GOOD]

Hello all. I am Scott with VRT, http://www.violentracing.com/ .

Although I am recently too busy to frequent message boards, I wanted to come on here and introduce myself. We have some very exciting projects coming up in the near future, and Ed's (Eagle 1's) G coupe is one of the cars we are looking most forward to transforming into a true "VRT signature car".

Unfortunately, I will not be able to post here very often (very busy). I will keep in constant contact with Eagle 1, so as he will be well informed as to the progress of his car. We will take frequent pictures, and other documentation as we go.

It all begins monday at the Dyno Shop for the base line dyno, then it is back to the shop for the complete teardown of the existing powerplant.

Stay tuned.................



Thanks,
Scott at VRT
http://www.violentracing.com/

[trebien]

As for the ECU, since this is a custom built car/package... it would seem you have the ability to chose whatever ECU you would want to run. I for one would request the new UTEC product over the SS box, for a multitude of reasons.

As for wheels, come good recommendations have been made, but I am curious why you would want to stay with 19s... I would also look at the 5Zigen FN01R - the forged version, not the cheaper cast version. Nice, light, strong wheel with good spoke shape to clear big brakes...

Yes - Tanabe purchased SSR after they went bankrupt. It's unclear what they intend to do with SSR, or what direction they plan to take.

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/DSC00569_M_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Eagle1 Coupe Interior #3 - Note how the coupe looks relatively stock (except for the racing seats) - the roll bar/cage isn't very apparent. Note how also the EDFC unit can be 'hidden' (more important to not tempt thieves than for anything else. Kundalini Racing!?!? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

Trebien:
1) I think that wheel is super...but 17" diameter and I need 18" for the track. I only use the 19" for the street, and even then only part of the time.
2) I will have to defer to the pros on that one. I suspect that JWT which has access to anything they want to use and no compromise in their blood, chose what they thought was best. The builder is going to go with what JWT provides and recommends as working for their set up. But since they are in touch all the time on their various jobs, I will suggest that they politely lob the question to JWT and find out whether they considered it, and if so, what was their reasoning and get back to you with what we learn from them.

[Eagle1]

One of the other things that we are all going to be curious about is just how much wear does there appear to be on the motor internals after 23,000 miles of supercharged use, including a goodly number of track days. So when we take out the parts, we may get some pictures and impressions of the internals to evaluate for the benefit of those with similar set ups, or contemplating them.

[palmerwmd]

One of the other things that we are all going to be curious about is just how much wear does there appear to be on the motor internals after 23,000 miles of supercharged use, including a goodly number of track days. So when we take out the parts, we may get some pictures and impressions of the internals to evaluate for the benefit of those with similar set ups, or contemplating them.



Forobviosu reasons I am &lt;very&gt; curious to know.
Not too many track days at all but I am at 22,000 miles on ATI right now myself...

Fred.. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[boones]

As long as we are in the zone of radical ideas and are willing to consider almost anything conceptually, before a combination of common sense and our wallets brings us back to earth and reality....what would you think of a bypass filter as part of the package? Make sense? Totally stupid?
Here is the link:

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/by-pass.shtml

I have been aware of this unit for years. Typically, it makes no sense on a passenger car. Nor does it make sense on a race car. But here we have a daily driver with a built motor... a much bigger investment to protect... which is tuned to provide not just power, but reliabilty within the specs of what the car is now designed for. Longevity as well as performance is in fact a part of the design plan. With an oil cooler and my ARC pan this little baby is already going to run with 9.75 quarts of oil, but this system will filter out particles down to one tenth of one micron...as opposed to a typical 20 microns or larger. It is weight...but replacing the battery will offset that, and I can mount it low and more centered as well. (remember the JWT "twin" intercooler is butterflied out to be right behind the twin front bumper valences, so some of that area in front between them is now potentially available.)
What do you gents think? I know it is "out of the box", but that is part of what we are all trying to do to reach new standards.



Ed,
This unit was installed by another member this past summer on his 2005. Details of the installation are here:
Amsoil bypass and preoiler install (http://www.g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=51)
His email address is included in the article and I'll bet he would be willing to answer questions on the unit and how it has performed since the install.
Thus far I have only seen his first oil report, but for an oil report taken at that low mileage, the level of insoluables was phenomenally (and expectedly) low. Here is that oil report:
amsoil bypass oil report #1 (http://www.g-owners.com/pic_display.asp?id=760)

[Eagle1]

Wow, thanks Boones. That is a bullseye if ever there was one to a question!

[Riffster]

I just added some pics that Eagle1 sent me.

We will be adding more pics of the interior of the car soon - shots of gauge setups, roll bar/cage, etc.,

And of course that is just the start of things - many more pics and other goodies to follow!

Good stuff!

- Riff

[Eagle1]

I just added some pics that Eagle1 sent me.

We will be adding more pics of the interior of the car soon - shots of gauge setups, roll bar/cage, etc.,

And of course that is just the start of things - many more pics and other goodies to follow!

Good stuff!

- Riff


Thanks for putting in the pics, Riff. Sorry that the racing ones are so large.
"Kundalini" from the yoga state of enlightenment. But of course there is the good enlightenment, and there is the "bad", something akin to a psychotic episode. The joke on me with this car is.............which is it?

[trebien]

Trebien:
1) I think that wheel is super...but 17" diameter and I need 18" for the track. I only use the 19" for the street, and even then only part of the time.

2) I will have to defer to the pros on that one. I suspect that JWT which has access to anything they want to use and no compromise in their blood...



1. Interesting. When I was researching track wheels, I thought the forged version was also available in 18" sizes... bummer. I'm afraid my next choice would be either NISMOs or the Enkei RPF01. Not sure I would be comfortable with SSR Comps at this point.
2. Granted, you would think JWT has access to anything... but what THEY want out of an ECU that they are using for a retail kit to pass CARB, and what YOU may want out of an ECU to best control your vehicle, might be 2 different requirements in this instance. I would like the control and adjustability of the UTEC product, while JWT might like the fact that the SS box is somewhat limited and difficult to alter (CARB exemption). Just food for thought...

As for the oil system, I like that one picture of it mounted (what looks to be) right under the hood - "For easy access". If you've ever changed your own oil, this picture of those 2 filters just sitting there sideways on top of a wheel well should strike you as a little strange. Or at least messy.

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/_G3D0041_6_rev_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Navigating the famous (infamous?) Corkscrew at LS.</font>

Trebien:
Good point on the ECU. Will definitely make a deeper inquiry into it.
I think a wheel well mount might work for some truck that is an interstate highway cruiser, but certainly not for our G35 or 350Z cars, nobody will argue with us on that one! And finding space on a big Caterpillar diesel won't be a problem either.
Just so we are all clear, the JWT "kit" that I am going to use is not exactly the same as the one in the Sport Z "shootout". I am running a built motor, not a stock one, so the set up is a bit different. I will be getting you all the spec details.

['97 S14 SE Turbo]

Adding more Atom fuel for the fire.

Getting one is much easier now, due to them being built under licence in the NW. www.arielatom.com (http://www.arielatom.com) is the US site, and you can get them with a Supercharged GM Ecotec 4 cyclinder engine as an option. Heck, can even get it with a full Carbon fiber chassis tub, fenders, fin, etc.

As for wheels,

Keep in mind wheels wear out, even good ones. I've tracked numerous times with Desmond RegaMaster wheels on my S14. These sucker are super light, and forged with a 10k ton press. They are available in the sizes and offset that are talked about. They are the so called "Spoon" wheels, and the ones Rota copies as Rota Slipstreams. They have held up to tons of severe drifting and HPDE 3/4 events in the SW from Phoenix to Socal. With about 3+ years of abuse, they are due for the scrap heap. Other nicer wheels, like magnesium wheels, have a life of about 1 year for racing duty, or probably 2~3 years HPDE use.

Other local HPDE Drifters in the SW here use 5Zigen's very popular FN01R-C, as these are available in great offsets and sizes (most popular is their 17x10+12). They hold up for HPDE function, but for drifting and some of the more abusive drivers that loves to ride on the track's curbing, they occasionally chuck an inner lip. But at their price point (~$200 each, iirc), it's a well acceptable quality cast, lightweight trade off.

[DaveO]

The Summer 2005 edition of Sport Z Magazine, Volume 5, Issue 3 at page 38 has a very nice article comparing six different turbo systems (Greddy, Speed Force Racing, Air Power Systems, Jim Wolf Technology, Power Enterprise, Turbonetics) that you might want to read for a side by side comparison. My fellow California G35 buddies Wing Shum (photo) and Dave Ochenreider (editor and true scientific investigator) participated in the creation of that article and of course the tests. I will see if I can get Dave "0" to get on the thread and weigh in with some of his thoughts on the pros and cons of different set ups.
I have a correction to my earlier specs as well. Talking to the lads at VRT we are going with a pair of BB 550 Garrett, not a pair of 530. And we may go with Arias pistons instead of CP. Not a matter of preference on the pistons so much as the exigencies of availability, apparently.



Ed,

Thanks for the positive comments. Jeff Wisener did a great job on the Turbo Shootout Article. I was happy to be able to help out.

In case you missed it you have email.

[Riffster]

Some action pics of Eagle1's coupe at Laguna Seca are now being added to the thread.

Enjoy!

- Riff

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/_G3D0146_4_rev_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Another shot at Laguna Seca - ahead of a Factory Five Type 65 on another 'flat' section of that course.</font>

Hey lads, since the Sport Z Magazine is still available it is bad form for me to strip all of the charts and data and post it up here (and don't you do it either!). So go buy the Mag and read the numbers. Suffice to say...I like the JWT set up which at 5000 rpm is delivering 35 more rwhp and 33 more torque than the closest of the competitors, all using 8psi and 91 octane pump gas. (actually the JWT was boosting 7.8psi, slightly lower!). The advantage starts all the way down at 2000 rpm, and just keeps rising up the rpm band to 3500, when it is 44hp and 55tqe, then narrows slightly the rest of the way up. But compared to some of the others, the spread is as much as 75hp and 79 tqe. So go buy the Magazine and like they say, depending on your use intentions, discover which ones are likely to match up with them. For what I intend, the upper mid range where we will "live" at the track is right in the "sweet spot" of the JWT solution.

[JasonPerformance]

Hey Ed!

Dont bother with the NISMO Connecting Rod Bolts... Get the ARP ones... But I think the rods should come with different connecting rod bolts anyway...

Dont forget the ARP Head Studs and Main studs...
http://performancenissanparts.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=arp+350z+stud&amp; x=0&amp;y=0

[Eagle1]

Jason:
Give us the details behind why, please, so everybody gets the benefit. Thanks.

[trebien]

Eagle - Yep, noticed earlier you spec'd 550 turbos, not the 530s... I figured that was a custom request and NOT a typo... I have been interested to see the spool-up characteristics of those, versus the smaller 530s that seem to lose a little steam up top... going with a slightly higher compression piston as opposed to the typical 8/8.5:1 will help a litle bit to get them going, since you're going fully built anyway. Not that I'm suggesting 11:1 or anything... May want to look into the Arias Extreme Duty 9:1s instead of CPs...

Personally, just picked up some 17" FN01R-C (cast) wheels for track use... some 17" sizes will even fit over select 14" BBKs such as Rotora... (not your Stoptech, if memory serves) The 18s for that wheel are heavy, IMO, for the price and sizing. Would do RPF01 instead.

[Riffster]

I will vouch for the RPF01 (I use them in 17's though.) They have served me well at the Autobahn (North and South courses) and Road America with the Yoko A032R-S race rubber. As you well know Eagle1, the Carousel and Canada Corner put *major* stress on a wheel (in this case both corners work your left side wheels good.) And I don't take either turn easy - it's where the coupe makes up the distance lost on those long straights to the big HP cars! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Try this link to Performance Nissan Enkei Listing (http://performancenissanparts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1536_1539_1559&amp;sort=2a&amp;page=1) - there are appropriate sizes in 18's for the RPF01s but I wonder about the offsets. Maybe Jason or Tony can help you out there.

If that doesn't work out, it's probably time to get VRT working on a deal with Nismo/Volk/Rays - just be prepared for a long ship time!

- Riff

[JasonPerformance]

NISMO basicly re-packages the ARP rod bolts... (from what i hear)

The ARP Head Studs and Main Studs are stronger... there is less chance of the studs stretching them with the stock...

[trebien]

Re: wheels

Meant to also add Work... such as the Emotion (http://www.worksuperwheels.com/wheels/emotion_cr.html) ... a little heavier and not forged, but reasonably priced and look good. I believe largest is 18X9.5, though....

[JasonPerformance]

The RPF1 are a great wheel...

The best options with offsets are going to be 18x9 / 18x9.5 18x9 is a special wheel they do not regularly list but we have sold a few sets...

What fits the G35 / 350Z offsets better is the NT03+M (whats on my car)

you can do 9.5 / 10.5 18" and run 265 / 295 and not have to roll your fenders... They weight about 1-2lbs more then the RPF1's..

My 18x10.5 with 295/35/18 Kumho Ecsta MX tire weighed just under 50lbs... a stock 18x8.5 with 245/40/18 Bridgestone Potenza RE040 is 58lbs...

RPF1's just dont fit the Z / G35 with the best offsets... (unfortunatly) unless you do the 9 / 9.5 combo, but I would think you may want to get a little more rubber? but the 9 / 9.5 with a good R compound will be good for you too..

they make some hoosier tires in 265 / 305 which you can do on the 9.5 / 10.5

another option... if you want to upgrade to the rear 12.9" 2 pot stop tech brake kit, you could run 18x9.5 up front and 17x11 in the rear The tires will be a little less this way...

Or if you wanted to do a 17" all around, 17x10 5Zigen FN01RC will fit over the 14" stop tech's... but they are like 20lbs each but you get a much wider selection of rubber...

I know why you are looking at enkei... And besides, it is one of the best choices of wheel... But the wheel with the best offset options is the NT03+M... plus its the best choice if you are planning on running Niro!

The ultimate option would be something like the CCW classic wheel our race cars run, or the Volk Mag TE37...

Best real world option... NT03+M
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Misc/jasonz33newoem1_m_edited.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Misc/jasonz33newoem2_m_edited.jpg

[THX723]

O M G !!! I've created a monster!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Who'd known just a little over 2 yrs. ago? Who'd known Laguna Seca would have such an impact on Ed? Who'd known Ed was sooo passionate? *speechless*

I tell yall what though ... this man's doing everything so by the book it's scarey. Kudos! Ed, I'm very much looking forward to your newest upgrades. Once thing is for sure. We're gonna get us some nice footage of The Beast II! Don't mind me if I call dibs on shotgun at Laguna Seca this Janurary 20th. The rest of yall will have to wait for my Spielberg works and vicariously through that! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Riffster]

O M G !!! I've created a monster!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Who'd known just a little over 2 yrs. ago? Who'd known Laguna Seca would have such an impact on Ed? Who'd known Ed was sooo passionate? *speechless*

I tell yall what though ... this man's doing everything so by the book it's scarey. Kudos! Ed, I'm very much looking forward to your newest upgrades. Once thing is for sure. We're gonna get us some nice footage of The Beast II! Don't mind me if I call dibs on shotgun at Laguna Seca this Janurary 20th. The rest of yall will have to wait for my Spielberg works and vicariously through that! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif




Clint,

All you needed to do on this post is go 'nyah nyah nyah!'

Dig it in why doncha?

So .... you better come up with a GREAT vid of the run. Not just talking Spielberg here, more like Kubrick + Scorcese AND then Spielberg!

- Riff

[helldorado]

O M G !!! I've created a monster!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Who'd known just a little over 2 yrs. ago? Who'd known Laguna Seca would have such an impact on Ed? Who'd known Ed was sooo passionate? *speechless*

I tell yall what though ... this man's doing everything so by the book it's scarey. Kudos! Ed, I'm very much looking forward to your newest upgrades. Once thing is for sure. We're gonna get us some nice footage of The Beast II! Don't mind me if I call dibs on shotgun at Laguna Seca this Janurary 20th. The rest of yall will have to wait for my Spielberg works and vicariously through that! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif




Clint,

All you needed to do on this post is go 'nyah nyah nyah!'

Dig it in why doncha?

So .... you better come up with a GREAT vid of the run. Not just talking Spielberg here, more like Kubrick + Scorcese AND then Spielberg!

- Riff



Can we do John Woo with smokey burnouts and plenty of slow motion of the power slides through apex? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/DSC00576_M_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]Eagle1's coupe breathes easy - lots of venting with this custom-painted CF hood. </font>

The flood of information and ideas that I am receiving on this build is enough to open up the universe of what I do not know and shove it into my head as forcefully as the induction I seek for the motor.

There is a lot of work and decisions to be made to do this properly, and I appreciate all the good thoughts and suggestions. Especially the lads at VRT who are patiently spending time with me kicking around ideas and helping to guide me away from foolish decisions and towards good ones...while avoiding the easy ".....are you out of your F*%&amp;@#g mind?....response to any of them. Then again, some of the ideas get them turned a little too, so it goes both ways. And of course with Dave O (aka "Dr.Thermal") helping with thoughts about how to shield heat from intake and contain heat from output, accelerate air flow to the heat exchangers and express heat from the block, smooth air flow in the plenum...we have a regular science project going too.

Which means just about now is when we are going to start encountering unexpected challenges and working solutions (we hope) on the road to our objectives.
The end result will be worth it, but now the real grinding begins.

And yes, there is passion to this, hopefuly balanced with a bit of logic and reason. But one cannot have a quest for 500rwhp in a track worthy platform that also is a civil street car without a lot of passion. VRT shares either the passion, or the insanity, for the quest as much as I do. Whether we are the answer to each others prayers, or the penance that we will do for our temerity in seeking it remains to be seen.

Clint, you get the shotgun seat as requested. Hopefully the ride will be done and properly broken in before Laguna Seca, but there will be no rushing just to get up there. We will do this right once, the first time.

As Eric Burden sang:

I'm just a boy whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord please don't let me be misunderstood.

[Riffster]

Another picture up as Eagle1 waxes philosophical. (First philosopher to quote the lead singer for 60's group The Animals.)

Tune in later this week to see if we run out of pictures first or ways to recaption the phrase 'new pictures'!

- Riff

[Eagle1]

Riff:
If we dialed back to Seneca and Cicero on the philosophy there would be more than a few who would suggest that I was a high school classmate of both and that the wheel choice should be for a wheelchair or gurney, and not Enkei! Ahem.

OK. Here are the pending issues that I have been torturing myself and our friends at VRT over.

1. Tires. This is a no brainer and we are all set. Nitto NT-01. I ran this tire at Cal Speedway for the North American press release day, and then in November at Laguna Seca. On both occasions I was supremely impressed with the stick of the compound, the sidewall modulation and the enhanced grip in cornering as well as braking and acceleration. Those of you who are really into the nitty gritty of performance know that tires are immensely important to lap times. In general a max performance summer tire is a few seconds a lap faster than an standard or all season tire, a DOT-R tire is a few seconds a lap faster than a max performance summer tire, and a slick is yet again a few seconds faster than a DOT-R tire. All on the same set up. Tire choice is very important. This one is settled.

2. Wheel. To run a 315 rear treadwidth we really need a 10.5 inch rim. It can fit on a 9.5 inch rim, indeed it actually looks pretty reasonable, and it fits under the well and does not rub. But I would feel happier with a wider rim. Will it fit without rubbing? I don't know yet. It may be necessar to roll the fender a bit to get it to fit, and perhaps on the inside it will also require a spacer. I just don't know yet. Jason is running a 10.5 rim on his car without a problem, but a slightly narrower tread. I only have two choices for the rubber I want in 18 inch wheels, and that is 275 or 315. I can go 275 all around, no problem, on a 9.5 inch rim. But IF I can get the rears bigger, with all the power we are trying to put down, I think that would be preferable. I fully anticipate an issue here and we will diddle with it and see what comes of it. But we are gonna give it a try. Our friends at Enkei are going to help us with the wheels that Jason recommended.

3. Motordyne spacer. Our buddy "Dr Thermal", aka Dave O, is very much into controlling heat. We all know that more power means more heat, especially in a turbo set up. And heat is our enemy #2. (Enemy #1 is weight). The impact on horsepower that occurs with higher intake air temp is very substantial. We want to get the heat away from the engine as quickly and efficiently as we can, and we want the intake air to be as cool as we can. And we want to move the air as smoothly and turbulence free as possible, and with the most even distribution of pressure to all the cylinders as we can. Dave is of the view that the half inch spacer is a good mod for an FI car for all these reasons. So we have taken his suggestion seriously and have it "under submission" even though it is not in the initial specs. Remember guys, we want results with our goodies, not the engineering equivalent of fender well mounted curb whiskers. That just makes us look goofy. A few bucks for something that adds power, or increases durability/reliability is fine. Ozone splitters and tailpipe flamethrower kits are not.

4. Jet hot coating. On the cold air intake elements, to protect the charge air, and on the hot air exhaust elements, to trap the heat in and keep it from thermally "contaminating" the ambient air, are both strongly suggested by Dave O, and I am pretty impressed with his reasoning on this. So this is being considered seriously as well. Dave is getting a list of parts to consider coating together for me for tomorrow. I have already addressed cooling in several other respects, increased oil capacity, increased coolant capacity with the Koyo, increased exchange efficiency of the coolant with the Redline water wetter, and increased exchange efficiency with the aluminum Koyo design. Also the vented VIS hood with the nose scoop to pull in cold air from the high pressure point on the nose of the car and the six "gill slits" canted to the A pillars to express heat off the block with the aid of the higher air flow.

5.Underdrive pulley. This is just to reduce the stress on the waterpump and other accessories that we keep on the belt but will be getting spun hard on the track, and not used. But on the street, I want that air conditioner, especially in LA...so we have some compromise on that enemy "Mr. Weight". (The option of putting frozen gel packs in pockets sewn into a baseball hat in order to stay cool is not under submission.)

6. Pre-oiler and bypass filter. Assuming we can find a practical place to put these with all that other plumbing from the turbos. For a passenger car, really does not make sense. But for an expensive built motor with boost, where we are trying for daily driver durability and reliability and track performance.........hmmmm. Maybe not so wild an idea. Filtration to particulates sized one tenth of a micron instead of....thirty microns. Preoiling to protect the worst wear on an engine....the start up, as well as standby in case of pressure loss. A few hundred bucks to help save a pretty fair number of thousands of engine bucks does not seem bad. If this was a purpose built car for the track only...probably not. But for this hybrid just maybe. This one is under submission too. It certainly would make the build more unique.

7. Clutch. Well, this is a problem. The Exedy single disc I have, and which I have loved even though it has only been in there a few weeks, has to come out. It only has clamping power for about 400lbft at the flywheel. Just not strong enough for the new motor. So either we go with the JWT set up or the Exedy dual disc and its 600lbft capability. I was so impressed with the street civility of the super light carbon clutch single disc Exedy that I lean to the use of that kit in the dual disc for this build.

8. Battery. This is easy. We put a lightweight one in to replace the stock.

9. Pistons. A couple of comments have been received that maybe it would be better to go with 9 to 1 static compression pistons rather than 8.5 to 1. Better power low down is one reason. This is something that I really will defer to the JWT team on. Because the boost starts to come on as low as 1200 rpm on this car ....I am not so sure that having the 9 to 1 really addresses a "problem". Certainly not on the track where we will be living up around 4500 to 5500 rpms. On the street we baby step around anyway, and this is not a stoplight drag car either. So, I am going to make respectful inquiry, but if JWT says that 8.5 to 1 is the best, and given the remarkable linear delivery of power up the band of rpms that has tested out....I think we may have what we want.

10. Gauges. The fried EGT comes out and is replaced with a new one. That is easy. The old A/F gauge that does not work has to come out, and we are searching for one that really will work, preferably with a 60 mm face to fit the existing mount.

[JasonPerformance]

Definatly do the UR Underdrive crank pulley...

On a turbo car, any weight reduction you do to the crank is even more exadurated... The 8 RWHP made on an NA car is near trippled on a turbo car... When tracking, and if you are going to be running higher RPM's it will keep your power steering from being overdrived...


May also look into re-locating the lightweight battery to the trunk area on the passenger side... Those turbo's are goign to add some weight to the front of the car!


While the car is down, NISMO has some new bushings that can be pressed in... You wont need the ones for the Upper Control Arms since you have delron bushings in there...

The bushings available are:

# 4 x Front upper A arm bushing
# 2 x Front lower transverse link bushing
# 4 x Rear upper A arm bushing
# 2 x Rear radius rod (toe link) at hub bushing
# 2 x Rear radius rod (toe link) at body bushing
# 2 x Rear lower link (camber link) at hub bushing
# 2 x Rear lower link (camber link) at body bushing
# 2 x Rear lower control arm (spring arm) bushing
# 2 x Rear upper shock absorber bushing

Avaialble in a kit and seperately...

http://performancenissanparts.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=nismo+bushing+ 350z&amp;x=0&amp;y=0

http://performancenissanparts.com/catalog/images/nismoz33bushingkit.jpg

[350ZNV]

Whats up everybody. Another VRT Coming Soon car here. I just wanted to say congrats to Eagle1 and I can't wait to see the car in person. His will be a mirror image of mine, but with a few exceptions...I have a 350Z, and I don't have an interior. I will have to come back and read this whole thread later. Again, congrats Eagle! See you at the track!

Mike

[Eagle1]

I look forward to meeting you Mike. Later this year I hope to come out and run at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, and Spring Mountain-Pahrump. Maybe take the trek up to Reno-Fernley to do the new four mile route they finished, but probably want a trailer for that journey.
I saw your car at VRT and heard about the build they are doing on it, and it is very nice indeed. But wow are you serious! The whole inside of that baby is ......well its not there! With the light weight and big power that will be a missle. I will still have air conditioning and stereo at least, not to mention the stock back seat! I have to find two more fitment places in this build. One is for the potential of the amsoil bypass filter and pre-oiler (not totally decided yet on this, but looking hard. Need to be careful of temperature issues when the volume of oil is increased that significantly). The other of course is for the twin chiller tube on the right side of the console to hold the two champagne flutes, and running the drink tubes. (Effective lubrication is essential on all fronts). I won't be able to beat you with that much weight differential and equivalent motors...but I will lose to you lookin good.


Status here now.
1. Wheels shipping tomorrow or Monday. Sponsorship with Enkei signed(so now beware that I am no longer objective source on anything to do with wheels...j/k).
2. Tires shipping today. (I never was objective about tires, I loved the Nitto the first time I drove on them)
3. Motordyne iso thermal plenum shipped yesterday.
4. Jet hot probably not worthwhile on this set up except maybe on the outside of the exhaust manifold itself. Thinking on that. Do not want to gunk up the look of the motor for consideration of the aesthetic element, but as they are down below and hidden, maybe ok.
5. Amsoil bypass filter and pre-oiler available, but have not completed evaluation of feasibility and placement.
6. Probably need to change exhaust catback for more flow capacity. Thinking Stillen would be good choice there.
7. Clutch/flywheel choice...between Exedy 2 disc carbon and JWT 6 puck...waiting for some feedback from the team. I really have been impressed with the smoothness of the Exedy single disc set up.
8. Have some other mods to do as long as we are at it, and will noodle those out with the lads at VRT, make some decisions, and then get on with it in earnest.

[350ZNV]

Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch in Pahrump is an AWESOME track now that they have opened up the new extension. I have only run the 3.1 mile config. but it is now my favorite track edging out Buttonwillow. I havent gotten a chance to run at Las Vegas Motor Speedway because there are so few events there per year, but I am planning on going with Speed Ventures and N.A.S.A. Pro Racing when they go.

I will still have air conditioning as well, but no radio. I live in Vegas remember, I think even NASCAR and NHRA put A/C in their cars when they come to town. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[trebien]

Eagle - regarding pistons, compression, "boost coming on so low", etc...

Do those boost numbers you speak of reflect the 530 turbos or 550... not that the 550 will be that much different, but I am curious as to some hard data regarding the differences in spool of the 2 different turbos. There has been a lot of info/testing on the 530s for the VQ35... but I am not aware of any for the 550s on a VQ35... do you have some data? I'd like to see it. Thanks.

[fastg11]

Nice smiley face hood. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/_G3D0116_M_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]How does it feel to pass a Porsche? Eagle1 knows - he flashes lights at a Porsche as he wants by. This is *before* the TT conversion!</font>

Trebien:
I do not have the data, and in fact not entirely set that the 550 is the way to go, given the very excellent profile of the 530. That was the subject of a conversation I had early this morning, in fact, and I am leaning to staying with proven territory in the 530. It is enough power for what I am specifying, so may not be a need to go into less well known territory. I will post up the decision when made.

[helldorado]

Aside from a couple remaining details, it sounds like its starting to all come together!


1. Wheels shipping tomorrow or Monday. Sponsorship with Enkei signed(so now beware that I am no longer objective source on anything to do with wheels...j/k).



Congrats on the Enkei sponsorship. I'm curious, how do you get a sponsorship? Asking out of curiousity more than anything. Not particularly something I want to attain for myself.


4. Jet hot probably not worthwhile on this set up except maybe on the outside of the exhaust manifold itself. Thinking on that. Do not want to gunk up the look of the motor for consideration of the aesthetic element, but as they are down below and hidden, maybe ok.



How would Jet-Hot would gunk up the engine? Since depending on the coating you choose, it can have a high luster look thats kind of like a polished nickel.


6. Probably need to change exhaust catback for more flow capacity. Thinking Stillen would be good choice there.



I'm not sure if Stillen is going to give you enough flow... You might want to look at HKS or APS. Not definite on that, but I think Stillen might be on the restrictive side for those power levels. Are you planning to run high flow cats or test pipes?


Oh, and what management system did you guys decide to go with? Are you going to look at UTEC or stick with the SS box?

[DaveO]

helldorado,

In regards to your statement "Not definite on that, but I think Stillen might be on the restrictive side for those power levels." perhaps you could help me out.

While we haven't personally seen or tested the HKS and APS systems, why wouldn't the 60mm (2.5") Stillen Coupe dual cat-back exhaust system flow essentially the same as the 60mm HKS dual cat-back system or the 60mm dual w/common muffler APS System?

In our published and unpublished exhaust system tests the Stillen's system has always done well and we're not alone. Our competitor Turbo Magazine also tested the Stillen system on a 350Z (same system minus 6" in the midpipes) and reported it made twice the power of any other system they've tested. Granted the tests were on N/A cars.

So why not a dual 3" APS or custom system? Based on a couple of major tuners input and pages 131-133 of Corky Bell's book Maximum Boost, a dual 3" exhaust is probably too much. Figure 11-4 indicates that dual 2.5" pipes are good for 900 horsepower.

Finally, IMO as well as some experts, a certain amount of exhaust back pressure is necessary to prevent the cartridge's lube oil from slipping past the seals. Some of us have seen white smoke out the exhaust of some newly turboed engines.

[helldorado]

Dave, I could be barking on that one so definitely take it with a grain of salt! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I thought I had had heard through the grapevine about several people who have hit 500+ whp that initially had the Stillen exhaust (originally N/A or SC), it was keeping them from that mark. But that's really one of those my "friend's brothers' cousin's best friend's girlfriend's second cousin said" kind of statements.

I'd agree the piping diameter or flow design should not be an issue, but it could in the internal muffler design. That's something I'm not familiar with on how the systems differ, so I can't even really begin to address that.

Though its a fairly unsubstantiated concern on my part, its been worthwhile because it prompted you to raise some really good points in return. Ironically, I just got the Corky Bell book... now I just need to remember to bring it with me when I travel so I can read it!

[Eagle1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/D5873Fix_M1_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]California Speedway coming out of the double-apex horseshoe Turn Six.</font>


Aside from a couple remaining details, it sounds like its starting to all come together!


(Which means that we truly are about to meet the devil himself, since that is where he lives. In the next day or so we are going to go through a checklist of various additional modifications and considerations, and then make decisions and get to work on all of it in a hopefully coordinated fashion.)



1. Wheels shipping tomorrow or Monday. Sponsorship with Enkei signed(so now beware that I am no longer objective source on anything to do with wheels...j/k).



Congrats on the Enkei sponsorship. I'm curious, how do you get a sponsorship? Asking out of curiousity more than anything. Not particularly something I want to attain for myself.


(Basically you need a car that is in their judgment likely to get some significant attention. If they think that is possible you then need to undertake a commitment to show the car at events, give them an accurate record of those events and proof of attendance with pictures, and generally provide some profile exhibition of their product, as well as run some decals in pre-approved spots, like fenders. If you don't do it then you may be obliged to pay the full price of the comp'ed equipment. Since I am going to be running a number of track events, and attending shows with Team Transport when I can, this is not much of an additional obligation except for the record keeping and pictures and reporting periodically to them. Like most of us who are enthusiasts, you develop connections to the right people...or to the people who know the right people and they make an introduction for you. In the case of the wheels, a friend of mine and father of a boy who played football with one of my sons is a contact in the business, and it really is more a matter of doing each other mutual favors. I would sincerely like to support him in his business and to help the company he works with. So I will probably run more events than I would otherwise just to be sure that beyond any doubt he looks good for having made the recommendation to support my car. On the tires, they are a client in my business, so there just is no question that I will support them in this regard. It is a delightful and happy matter that I really and truly find their tire to also be the best that I have ever ridden, so I am quite excited about that. Of course, if I proceed in the first 60 days to plant my nose into a wall everybody may disavow any knowledge of me!)



4. Jet hot probably not worthwhile on this set up except maybe on the outside of the exhaust manifold itself. Thinking on that. Do not want to gunk up the look of the motor for consideration of the aesthetic element, but as they are down below and hidden, maybe ok.



How would Jet-Hot would gunk up the engine? Since depending on the coating you choose, it can have a high luster look thats kind of like a polished nickel.


(Compared to the look of the motor with the polished plenum and ducting, it looks more like battleship primer to me. There is not that great a return relative to other ways I can spend my money. I think on the manifolds there will be some benefit...but there is already a lot of money that has been spent on the challenge of dealing with heat. The remaining steps are theoretically ones that will add benefit...but an extra couple of hp at this stage are not as important as some other ambitions with the bucks.)



6. Probably need to change exhaust catback for more flow capacity. Thinking Stillen would be good choice there.



I'm not sure if Stillen is going to give you enough flow... You might want to look at HKS or APS. Not definite on that, but I think Stillen might be on the restrictive side for those power levels. Are you planning to run high flow cats or test pipes?


(I will run high flow cats, probably the Crawfords on there now. HKS is also a good system. Most of the studies I have read show very solid returns on Stillen. It is a heavy exhaust, but it works. )



Oh, and what management system did you guys decide to go with? Are you going to look at UTEC or stick with the SS box?


(I think we stick with what Jim Wolf says to use. It is his kit after all, and he is a stickler for detail. )

[DaveO]

helldorado,

I forgot to mention one thing in my earlier post, Stillen's system was designed for FI but also works well in N/A applications. How do I know? Personal experience and I asked the guys who designed and build it. In fact I asked why their system wasn't 2" or 2.25" maximum which would probably make more power N/A. Their answer? See above.

In 2003 Steve took me on a tour of Tube Solutions (their company that builds Stillen and other company's performance exhausts). The facility is indeed state-of-the-art. At that time I got an up front and personal look at their systems--inside and out. The G35C/350Z exhaust system's resonators' and mufflers' internals sure appeared high flow to me.

[JasonPerformance]

For your clutch...

Remember, the 6 Puck Clutch with Cerametallic disc will be more grabby for regulary daily driving... So if you are driving your car on the street, it will be grabby... Not nearly as extreeme as the tilton, since with the JWT set up there is more rotational mass and the moment of iniertia is greater...

With the 6 Puck Clutch, there is more mass in the disc, so the trans will not respond as quickly as it would with the low mass disc's of the Carbon disc's...

The carbon clutch will be comfortable on the street, since it wont grab as hard until it is heated up to track tempretures...

[AZ_G]

How does the V1 work when placed in the ash tray? I would assume there is a unit mounted on the front of the car, maybe behind the grill? Does it still have it's directional capability?

If this question was already brought up then I appologise. I don't have time to read the entire thread right now.

[Riffster]

I believe the unit that is in the ash tray is just the remote for the main V1 unit. The remote is connected to the main V1 unit, which is usually mounted just in front of the rear-view mirror. With the remote in place the main unit, while powered on, is 'dark' so no flashing lights in easy view of potential 'bad guys' - cops and robbers. Also helps to reduce 'tagalongs' (those guys who see you have a radar detector and then ride along behind you like an automotive leech!)

- Riff

[Eagle1]

Riff is (again) right on point with the V-1. The unit is mounted just to the right and in front of the overhead console. The power is drawn from that console as well. Then the wire to the remote read out runs under the head liner to the passenger side A pillar, and down to the ashtray. One little push and it disappears. The receiver unit is up high enough that it is not visible from the side, and on the driver side, if someone looks up for it while asking for your registration and license, it is concealed by the overhead console. In the same fashion the roll top cubby will cover up the EDFC controller for the suspension, and the glove box lid slaps down for the gauges. In barely over a second all three go from easy use to concealed and "stock" looking interior. You have to strain a bit to realize the gauges in the nav location are not standard, and the roll bar is tucked away to be not immediately visible either.

[Riffster]

Riff is (again) right on point with the V-1.



I am framing this and showing it to my ladyfriend.

Will it help?

No way .... but she'll have to think for two seconds before crushing my ego again. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif


The unit is mounted just to the right and in front of the overhead console. The power is drawn from that console as well. Then the wire to the remote read out runs under the head liner to the passenger side A pillar, and down to the ashtray. One little push and it disappears. The receiver unit is up high enough that it is not visible from the side, and on the driver side, if someone looks up for it while asking for your registration and license, it is concealed by the overhead console. In the same fashion the roll top cubby will cover up the EDFC controller for the suspension, and the glove box lid slaps down for the gauges. In barely over a second all three go from easy use to concealed and "stock" looking interior. You have to strain a bit to realize the gauges in the nav location are not standard, and the roll bar is tucked away to be not immediately visible either.



You are describing this like getting pulled over is a common thing for you - you seem to be the type of person who wouldn't run afoul of Officer Friendly, then again when you're driving a car that looks like (or 'likes looks') your coupe, you're probably going to be pulled over just on the principle that you *might* be going fast sometime soon!

I never get pulled over - well almost never. We'll see how things go with the roll cage and the gauges (which are non-stealth on the A-Pillar.) I may have to come up with some caps to cover them up at night - sheesh, I don't believe I just wrote that. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif

- Riff

[palmerwmd]

Riff is (again) right on point with the V-1. The unit is mounted just to the right and in front of the overhead console. The power is drawn from that console as well. Then the wire to the remote read out runs under the head liner to the passenger side A pillar, and down to the ashtray. One little push and it disappears. The receiver unit is up high enough that it is not visible from the side, and on the driver side, if someone looks up for it while asking for your registration and license, it is concealed by the overhead console. In the same fashion the roll top cubby will cover up the EDFC controller for the suspension, and the glove box lid slaps down for the gauges. In barely over a second all three go from easy use to concealed and "stock" looking interior. You have to strain a bit to realize the gauges in the nav location are not standard, and the roll bar is tucked away to be not immediately visible either.



Good thinking. I might try to copy parts of your set-up at some time.
Stealth when being pulled over can make the difference between a 1 point ticket or a 4 pointer:

This is why I have my only Gauge (EGT) right here:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c260/palmerwmd/100_0099.jpg

[helldorado]

Dave, thanks for the additional info. Definitely has put any naggings I've had to rest. I'll be giving the 2 Stillen systems a hard look in the future for my own endeavors.

Ed, I think you've thoroughly gone over everything and its a really solid plan.

Now you get my official
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Thumbs_up.jpg/180px-Thumbs_up.jpg

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Eagle1]

Gee Helldorado, I hope you are not suggesting I have to sit on that! (j/k) Everybody's questions are great and the flow of ideas (and exhaust expertise Dave O) helps to dig into not just good solutions, but better solutions. We are none of us the experts we want to be, but the collective input helps to get some excellent material to work with and considerations to make when the time is right...before the wrenches start turning. By Monday we should be done with the consideration of systems and options and have most of the decisions made on what we are going to do. Then we have to turn to doing it, and in a few instances wrestling with....'Yeah I know we decided TO do it, but nobody has been able to explain HOW we are going to do it'. That is likely to bop us between the ideas with the rear wheel fitment, and the placement of the pre-oiler and bypass filter, since the turbo plumbing is space greedy. As long as we keep repeating to ourselves "this is fun, this is fun" we might make it through.

[helldorado]

If anything, this has helped me in my own thought processes and helped to open up some new avenues to pursue!

*sits down and patiently waits for pictures of the install* http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

And please don't sit on that thumb. I eat with that hand. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Riffster]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/Other%20G35s/S0041_M1_edited.jpg
<font color="blue[/img]California Speedway, compound turn at the end of the infield straight.</font>

UPDATE:
<ul type="square[/img]

Eagle1 is quite busy now (as you might imagine) as his coupe now has had the motor removed and the new motor (pretty much built) is about ready to be put in but the manifold are being sent out for the 'Jet' coat and the new clutch and flywheel must be ordered.

We will be breaking this 'series' up into separate threads so that the load size (because of pics mostly) doesn't become too burdensome, especially for those FAers using a dial-up connection.

Any suggestions as to what photographs might be of interest should be included here. Eagle1 cannot guarantee they will be honored but he (and our staff) are interested in making this FA-exclusive series as much of an aid to all interested in performance on the VQ platform, and specifically the G35 coupe as it can be. Obviously, due to time constraints, all requests may not be able to be honored.
[/list]

More - MUCH more - threads, pics and info to come! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

- Riff

[G_Man8895]

I'm interested in more pictures of Eagle's roll cage if they're available. If not that's fine. Great thread!!

[Eagle1]

I'm interested in more pictures of Eagle's roll cage if they're available. If not that's fine. Great thread!!


OK, I will get a complete set of pics taken to show all of the features. It will have to wait a few days because the car is in San Diego, I am in Pasadena, and headed off to Chicago for a bit. But maybe we can speed up the process if they snap a couple of digitals and email them up to me to use for you. I will ask.

Basically the bar is mild steel tube, custom bent and welded at six points. The kick back bar goes through the rear panel.....so you gotta have some "faith" in how accurate you are in making the cut because there is no second chance to get it right. (Gary Castillo in Lake Forest did the job and did it very well). The harness bar is of course solid steel, and slips into place right behind the front seats, removable with two detent pins. The stock three point belts are left in place. The reason is that if you want to use the rear seats, you just slip out the two pins, withdraw the bar and the harnesses in one smooth motion, and plop it in the trunk. Access to the rear is now pretty much stock, except that the angle of the kick forward bar requires you to slide the seat to full forward and tilt the back-rest forward to have an acceptable ingress and egress angle over the lowest part of the bar. For carpool kids it is no problem getting in and out. If you are six foot you shouldn't be headed back there anyway! Re install of the bar is similarly easy, though it takes a couple of more minutes to thread the belts through the seat back. A rubber mallet is a good idea to get it out and in without heaving or pushing and to align the holes for the detent pin accurately, as the tolerance is very precise to avoid rattle. I make it a point to have a special "kit" in a canvas sport carry bag in the trunk with a variety of small tools, extra cog belt for the SC, etc. and keep the mallet there. It takes up very little space but has the stuff you need to keep rolling if something minor goes awry. I will start a new thread, maybe call it Chapter 2, and that way we can follow Riff's advice, and I will do that with my next post.

[Riffster]

I'm interested in more pictures of Eagle's roll cage if they're available. If not that's fine. Great thread!!



Here you go G_Man8895 - I had these from before.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/eagle1rollcage_4_r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/eagle1rollcage_3_r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/eagle1rollcage_1_r.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/riffster/eagle1rollcage_2_r.jpg

Four less pics for you to take (again) Eagle1!

- Riff

[Eagle1]

You are the "Man" Riffster! Thanks. Candidly, that pretty much covers it. If there is an aspect that remains, let me know, but that should do it.

I have had the Amsoil pre-oiler and bypass filter shipped, the fluidamper spec'd, a full set of Nismo bushings shipped, and of course the wheels and tires are now shipped (and tires arrived!), as well as the 1/2 inch Motordyne iso-thermal spacer shipped. Next week should be a very dramatic week.

It turns out, by the way, that the paint job on my VIS carbon fiber hood is not a proper match, so we may need to respray that. I also have a tear in the right front bumper skirt in two places (impacted a half shaft that was coughed up from an AWD car right in front of me going down the back straight going into the "Dogleg" of Buttonwillow at over 120mph, so swerving was not really an option on that one!) that needs to be cosmetically addressed if we are not to embarass our friends at VRT, (as in "nice car but why is the bumper such a POS?") so that needs to be done. Besides, the car is signed up for the DUB Magazine show at the LA Convention Center in February, so it has to look decent.

The next step is the VRT "fantasy list" of additional treatments and options, which I hope to have by tomorrow. Then we hope to use more brain than "you know what" in making those decisions, and off we go. Like I discussed with Scott the other day, when you go into turn 1 at Cal Speedway at 150mph+ it is nice to have a very good sized brain and [censored] to match..........but since there is only enough blood in your system to allow one of them to work at a time....which one do you want to be using as you approach that turn? If you choose wrong you will never use either again.

[G_Man8895]

Thanks for the pics Riffster!

Thanks Eagle1 for the description. Do you use padding for the kick forward bars when you have passengers back there? Would they be safe in an accident? Just curious. I'm not getting a roll cage for my coupe anytime soon. I just started looking into DEs. I do need the back seats for my son and friends.

I've been following you guys for a while. I've enjoyed reading both of your articles in the g-owners forum. Keep up the good work!

[Eagle1]

This is the last post I will make on this "Chapter 1" of the rebuild, as it is getting pretty long to load and read for many people, and it seems a good time to make a transition to the next phase, which is the parts and the rebuild installation process itself. So I will start a new "Chapter 2" and carry on with pictures and details there.
Cheers.
Ed

[Riffster]

Are you done with Chapter 1?

Here are direct links to Chapter 2!

Link #1 to Chapter 2- Converting from Supercharger to TT (show all pages)

Show all of Chapter 2! (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB25&amp;Number=68049548&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=all&amp;vc=1)

Link #2 to Chapter 2- Converting from Supercharger to TT (show first page)

Show first page of Chapter 2 only! (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB25&amp;Number=68049548&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1)

Enjoy! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/lurk5.gif

- Riff

[pcmerc]

Who makes the gauge setup that your using for the center console?

[Riffster]

Who makes the gauge setup that your using for the center console?

If you mean that neat triple-decker combo, I believe that was custom-built for Eagle1 and is not commercially available (unfortunately) as far as I know.

I'll see if I can get Eagle1 to respond - I think he's getting married soon! :D

- Riff

[pcmerc]

Yes, the triple decker. That thing is awesome. Congrats Eagle1!

Thanks Riffster

[Eagle1]

The gauge cluster was my design. I took it to an audio place in Santa Monica called Automotive Entertainment, on Wilshire Blvd between 25th and Chelsea, south side of the street. Also gave them the "cans" to the gauges I was going to use so they could mold the fiberglass to exactly the right diameters for them. Then they matched the paint on the console, and voila. Any good auto stereo fabrication place should be able to do the same for you if you show them the pictures.

20.5 hours to launch pad on the wedding.

[pcmerc]

Awesome! Thanks for the reply Eagle1.

I ended up going with a 3 pillar on the left drivers side.

[Riffster]

Awesome! Thanks for the reply Eagle1.

I ended up going with a 3 pillar on the left drivers side.

3-Pillar setup eh? That's what I have - with the NAV I don't have the 'stealthy' locations Eagle1 has to hide his gauges. Then again, whom is he kidding ;) anyway - his coupe pretty much dropped any pretense of fuzzy-wuzziness a long time ago!
:burnrubber0:

Btw, pcmerc, what gauges did you get - manufacturer, model, and type of parameters (exhaust, oil temp, etc.,) ??? Since I am still NA I am more interested in temps - my gauges are Auto-meter Sport/Comp (couldn't get the Nexus :( model) for oil, water and tranny temps.

- Riff

[rybczyks]

I just wonder how you bypass the airbag module on your seat, I'm going to by aftermarket seats but I have no Idea how to bypass it a airbag module, Please give me some advie!!!!
Thanks

[Eagle1]

Check with Jason at Performance Nissan.
When you replace the front seats, and thus take out the seat mounted airbag that is part of those seats, your airbag warning light goes into permanent warning light mode. You can address that with a little gadget from PN so the light stops blinking at you.