BMW: Infiniti is more dangerous than Lexus

[GuyLegend]

Luxury Wars

Lexus may be America's best-selling luxury car brand, but it can't come close to BMW's reputation for driving excitement. Now Lexus, Toyota's luxury division, is aiming squarely at the German carmaker with two new high-performance vehicles.

The LF-A supercar prototype, equipped with a 500-horsepower V-10 engine, is a follow-up to a concept car Lexus debuted on the 2005 auto show circuit. "This latest concept is much closer to a vehicle that we would bring to market, and one in which we will be gauging consumer interest," says Lexus General Manager Robert Carter.
Meanwhile, a high-performance model that's definitely headed to Lexus showrooms is the 2008 IS-F sports sedan. It's a supercharged version of the rear-wheel-drive IS and will come with a 5.0-liter V-8 that delivers more than 400 horsepower.

Lexus has been moving steadily upscale to compete with other luxury marques at the high end of the market. Its newly redesigned flagship, the LS, for instance, now comes in two wheelbases--the longer one will compete head-to-head with the Mercedes S550 and the BMW 750 IL.
And in June, Lexus will introduce a hybrid V-8 version, the LS 600h L--that will provide the performance of a V-12 engine, but offer better fuel economy and cleaner emissions. Expected price range: $100,000. Now that's luxury class.

High-performance sports cars offer yet another expansion opportunity for Lexus, which sold 322,000 cars in the U.S. last year--its seventh year in a row as America’s top-selling luxury brand. With the new F-line of performance cars, Lexus will be better able to compete with BMW's M-series, Mercedes' AMG line and Cadillac's high-performance V-series, says Carter.

As it strives for high-performance characteristics, Lexus must be careful not to alienate the customers who have come to prefer its smooth, comfortable ride, Carter acknowledges.
For its part, BMW is paying close attention to the move by Lexus into its territory. "With the power of Toyota (nyse: TM (http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=TM) - news (http://www.forbes.com/markets/company_news.jhtml?ticker=TM)- people (http://www.forbes.com/peopletracker/results.jhtml?startRow=0&name=&ticker=TM)) behind it, you can never underestimate Lexus," says BMW's worldwide sales and marketing chief, Michael Ganal.

But Ganal says he's more worried about Nissan's (nasdaq: NSANY (http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=NSANY) - news (http://www.forbes.com/markets/company_news.jhtml?ticker=NSANY)- people (http://www.forbes.com/peopletracker/results.jhtml?startRow=0&name=&ticker=NSANY)) Infiniti brand, which is positioned directly below BMW. "Infiniti is more dangerous than Lexus," he says. Its sporty performance lineup is priced 10% to 15% lower than comparable BMW models. Yet Ganal insists BMW will stand pat against the competition. "We will not move down to attack Infiniti at eye level."

http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/09/toyota-luxury-cars-war-biz-cz_jm_0110luxury.html

[Sorin]

"Infiniti is more dangerous than Lexus," he says. Its sporty performance lineup is priced 10% to 15% lower than comparable BMW models.
Well imagine that. Performance and quality without having to rape your wallet. Who woulda thunk it.

Yet Ganal insists BMW will stand pat against the competition. "We will not move down to attack Infiniti at eye level."
Okay, apparently not BMW.

[VQuick]

That's music to my ears. Infiniti should take this to heart, and go for BMW's throat.

The next Q needs to be FM-based, with a definite sporting edge. Someone here said that it would be a Quattroporte competitor. I don't see that happening, but maybe Infiniti could take that idea and tone it down somewhat. The Maserati has incredible balance, so much so that it can match an M5 on the track, despite having a 100hp deficit.

Build a 400hp(more is okay.lol) VK45HR, shove it way back in the engine bay, maybe even put the tranny in the rear, and keep the car somewhat light. Add the latest and most useful(no IDrive!) technology, and strive to make the car comfortable too. That's a winning formula for a great Q.

If Nissan is really using Lotus for the GT-R's chassis and suspension development, maybe the relationship could be broadened to include the Infiniti line. Having a high performance lineup 'Tuned by Lotus' would carry a lot of clout. Lotus has stated that they want to begin work on more 'mainstream cars' again, so this arrangement would be perfect for both companies.

[WhiteAlltrac]

First Audi and now BMW is talking trash???
In my own opinion:
Infiniti needs to work harder to wear Lexus shoes as a luxury brand.
BMW is king but not for long!!! Lexus is stepping in.
Audi needs to worry about Infiniti. happy?

[AZ_G]

First Audi and now BMW is talking trash???
In my own opinion:
Infinity needs to work harder to wear Lexus shoes as a luxury brand.
BMW is king but not for long!!! Lexus is stepping in.
Audi needs to worry about Infinity.

You forgot to add that WhiteAlltrac needs to learn to spell Infiniti. :D

[UofMG35]

Infiniti needs to work harder to wear Lexus shoes as a luxury brand.

Infiniti isn't trying to wear "Lexus shoes". If my G35 rode like a Lexus I wouldn't have bought it...

[M_TYPE_X]

Lexus targets Benz: luxury, pretentiousness, soft ride
Infiniti targets BMW: sport, power
Acura is more like Audi: related to downmarket models, AWD/turbo (Acura moving in this direction)

[SHIFT_6speeds]

Autoloine Detriot in a recent episode reported that Nissan in fact stated that their Infiniti division is going to change their target from BMW and go after Lexus. The television show even stated that that would be a wrong move and they would hate to see that happen because what Infiniti is currently doing and has to offer is incredible.

[WhiteAlltrac]

The television show even stated that that would be a wrong move and they would hate to see that happen because what Infiniti is currently doing and has to offer is incredible.


What is soooooooo incredible about Infiniti that they have to offer, that Lexus is NOT offering now???? (man do I sound weird on this...)

[WhiteAlltrac]

Infiniti isn't trying to wear "Lexus shoes". If my G35 rode like a Lexus I wouldn't have bought it...

I am sure you like your bumpy and creeky ride.....:26:

[SHIFT_6speeds]

What is soooooooo incredible about Infiniti that they have to offer, that Lexus is NOT offering now???? (man do I sound weird on this...)

Vehicle dynamics!

Lexus is marshmallows on wheels. Spell Japanese Buick. The Lexi may be beautiful, well crafted and in "persuit of perfection", but they do not have the dynamics of a true "driving machine". If marshmallow poorer vehicle dynamics is what you're looking for, you are in luck. Lexus has persued it to near perfection!

[WhiteAlltrac]

Vehicle dynamics!

Lexus is marsmallows on wheels. Spell Japanese Buick. The Lexi may be beautiful, well crafted, in "persuit" of perfection, but they do not have the dynamics of a true "driving machine". If marsmallow and poorer vehicle dynamics is what you want, Lexus has persued it to near perfection!

I been reading many statements that are exactly like yours on many other forums but using "Camry" never with "Lexus". I think the Camry is a better fit to your statement.

I doubt an IS350 has poorer dynamics than your G but if YOU think it does has less dynamics then go with the IS-F and if that does not meets what you are looking for then wait for the LA-F.

You see Lexus has an answer for you, Infiniti has no more answers, it stops with the "G"....

[NSE70]

I been reading many statements that are exactly like yours on many other forums but using "Camry" never with "Lexus". I think the Camry is a better fit to your statement.

I doubt an IS350 has poorer dynamics than your G but if YOU think it does has less dynamics then go with the IS-F and if that does not meets what you are looking for then wait for the LA-F.

You see Lexus has an answer for you, Infiniti has no more answers, it stops with the "G"....

Whoa a Lexus Fanatic that thinks Nissan isn't making sports cars above the G35.

Yes the Lexus IS350 is faster than a G35 around the track because of its stronger engine and silky automatic, but it doesn't feel like a sports car. A fun car is more reason to buy than a fast car.

Go with the LF-A? You're nuts. That's $100,000+ You're comparing a $35,000 car to a $100k car lol!

[Chip_Letzgus]

he's all over toyotathon's nuts.

you know what. Infinity should bring back the Sylvia and make it a wagon. And then Toyoda will cry.

[WhiteAlltrac]

Whoa a Lexus Fanatic that thinks Nissan isn't making sports cars above the G35.

Yes the Lexus IS350 is faster than a G35 around the track because of its stronger engine and silky automatic, but it doesn't feel like a sports car. A fun car is more reason to buy than a fast car.

Go with the LF-A? You're nuts. That's $100,000+ You're comparing a $35,000 car to a $100k car lol!

Who is trying to compare a $100,000 to a $35,000 G ???
All I am trying to say is that Lexus DOES makes car with dynamics and better DYNAMICS than any Infiniti out in the market today.

I dont see what is sooooo fun on a G that an IS already offers???
A stick shift??? Wow that all be fun (not!).

Nuff said, I am in a no win situation being on a Nissan forum.

But I rest my case.....:deadhorse2:

[WhiteAlltrac]

he's all over toyotathon's nuts.

you know what. Infinity should bring back the Sylvia and make it a wagon. And then Toyoda will cry.

I can say the same about Toyota with the Supra but I keep it to myself...

[NissT]

Who is trying to compare a $100,000 to a $35,000 G ???
All I am trying to say is that Lexus DOES makes car with dynamics and better DYNAMICS than any Infiniti out in the market today.

I dont see what is sooooo fun on a G that an IS already offers???
A stick shift??? Wow that all be fun (not!).

Nuff said, I am in a no win situation being on a Nissan forum.

But I rest my case.....:deadhorse2:

If you can't tell a difference between IS350 and G (or even worse, think that IS as better dynamics), then as you said, you might as well rest your case. Individual opinions are subjective (old people like soft cars), but when it comes to performance and dynamics, you have to look at the professionally done comparison reviews... that is unless you know what good dynamics is.
There is NO review that states IS has better dynamics or is more fun to drive than G.
LS-F is still not out yet, so why would you think that it has better dynamics? By the way, manual is always more fun and control, that is almost a universal "fact".

[UofMG35]

I am sure you like your bumpy and creeky ride.....:26:

Apparently you've never owned a G35. I've owned three G35's over 4 years and never once had a "creeky ride".

But it could be classified as bumpy when compared to a Lexus. Of course a Lexus can't pull 0.87g on the skidpad, so it's an acceptable trade off to me.

[UofMG35]

I doubt an IS350 has poorer dynamics than your G

You must choose to ignore every road test of the G35 and IS350, becuase if you read any of them you'd know that the G35 has much better driving dynamics than an IS350. It handles better (higher skid pad number), has more precise steering, brakes better, etc. The only thing in the dynamic department that the IS350 does better is accelerate in a straight line. But that difference is nearly negligable at only 0.2 seconds difference to 60 mph.

If you're going to come onto a Nissan website and try to say any Toyota/Lexus has better driving dynamics without ANY FACTS, of course you're going to get flamed. You're just spewing your opinions as if they're facts. It's actually quite amusing how naive you are!

[Chip_Letzgus]

I can say the same about Toyota with the Supra but I keep it to myself...

we already know about you and all those supra concepts you posted. thanks.

[WhiteAlltrac]

You must choose to ignore every road test of the G35 and IS350, becuase if you read any of them you'd know that the G35 has much better driving dynamics than an IS350. It handles better (higher skid pad number), has more precise steering, brakes better, etc. The only thing in the dynamic department that the IS350 does better is accelerate in a straight line. But that difference is nearly negligable at only 0.2 seconds difference to 60 mph.

If you're going to come onto a Nissan website and try to say any Toyota/Lexus has better driving dynamics without ANY FACTS, of course you're going to get flamed. You're just spewing your opinions as if they're facts. It's actually quite amusing how naive you are!

So you think I choose to ignore every road test between the two???
Well here is some food for your mouth:
Lexus IS350 wins Road & Track Japanese sports sedan comparison test

ROAD & TRACK TEST COMPARO RESULTS
After comparing the Lexus IS350 against its Japanese archrivals, the reinvigorated 2007 Acura TL Type-S and the 2nd-generation Infiniti G35 sedan, in its 6-speed manual Sport iteration, the Lexus IS350 pulled an upset against the predicted winner, the G35, and won the comparison test outright. In fact, the Infiniti was the outright loser in this comparo, managing a mere 371.4 points, versus the Acura TL Type-S's 376.7 points and the Lexus IS350's resoundingly victorious 389.6 points.

The test itself was conducted by Sam Mitani, assisted by Senior Editor Jim Hall and Assistant Road Test Editor Jonathan Elfalan, and was held in the Santa Barbara, California area’s endless ribbon of twisty mountain roads. Mitani's review of the Lexus IS350 contains these choice passages: "When driving the Lexus IS 350, it’s easy to forget that it’s a sedan. Virtually everything about the car, aside from its looks, says 'sports car'. It all starts when you push the engine start button. The VVT-i-equipped 3.5-liter V-6 comes to life with a ferocious growl, and you won’t be able to resist giving the throttle pedal a few extra taps just to hear the throaty exhaust note again.


For our best acceleration runs, we left the transmission in full auto mode, letting the computer perform the upshifts, which it did quickly and smoothly at or near the 6600-rpm redline. The Lexus blasted to 60 mph in 4.9 sec. and to the quarter-mile mark at a blistering 13.5, which bests even the more expensive V-8-powered Audi S4.



'What a great engine. It’s silky-smooth, quiet, but really potent. It’s hard to believe that the Lexus and Infiniti have the same horsepower with roughly the same curb weight. The IS feels that much quicker,' Hall noted.



On meandering roads, the IS 350 becomes a weapon, as the car’s agile nature comes to the fore. The steering is super quick, and when combined with a rigid body structure and optional sport suspension, turn-in response is good...The IS 350 exhibits razor-sharp reflexes through left/right transitions, as evidenced by its 66.7-mph slalom run, but through tight turns, the Lexus has an overwhelming tendency to understeer.


The base price of the IS 350 is rather reasonable at $35,705, but our test car came equipped with the sport suspension and navigation packages that brought the grand total to $43,980. But even with the highest price tag in the group, the Lexus IS 350 had no problem winning this contest. It’s that good of a car."


Mitani's conclusion includes this excerpt: "Although you wouldn’t know it by looking at the ratings chart, this was one of the most closely contested battles in recent memory. The Lexus IS 350 is the king of the Japanese sports-sedan hill."

That is what they are saying NOT ME!!
Naive??? Huh???

This is only one report of the MANY that say this.......so there you have it.

[RetAF]

Many of us have a rather low opinion of Rodent Rack and their ability to maintain an unbiased attitude in the light of ad revenues.

[Sorin]

I've already been through this with WhiteAlltrac guys, don't bother. He is totally and completely Toyota's guy. At the top of every segment in every market is a Toyota. Nothing is better. One wonders why he bothers coming here when he seems to have zero appreciation or respect for other makes besides Toyota. He'll bait you and then the mods will pwn you rather than him. Been there, done that.

It's better than being a troll, like WhiteAlltrac. :rolleyes:
To sum up! Thank god for this new forum style and its ignore feature. A feature glaringly and horribly missing from the previous style.

[M_TYPE_X]

I've already been through this with WhiteAlltrac guys, don't bother. He is totally and completely Toyota's guy. At the top of every segment in every market is a Toyota. Nothing is better. One wonders why he bothers coming here when he seems to have zero appreciation or respect for other makes besides Toyota. He'll bait you and then the mods will pwn you rather than him. Been there, done that.

Toyotanation needs more attention, he should be a full-timer PLUS there. I'm sure he's a full-timer, but TN needs him to give 199%.

[WhiteAlltrac]

Toyotanation needs more attention, he should be a full-timer PLUS there. I'm sure he's a full-timer, but TN needs him to give 199%.

Guys dont take me so serious, I only like to make everyones posts interesting, if anything I am responsible for sparking most threads here which brings the best of all of you.

I was a big fan of the early 240 and 280 Z's..........fact is my parents owed many Datsun's B210, 510 etc...I owe my driving to them vehicles.

Do you love me now???

:heart:

[SHIFT_6speeds]

We won't love you till you admit Infiniti cars do indeed have greater driving dynamics overall vs Lexus.

When a woman chooses an Infiniti over a Lexus because the infiniti has greater driving dynamics...there you go. Proof is in the pudding. When a woman likes what she feels, she wants more!

[SHIFT_6speeds]

We won't love you till you admit Infiniti cars do indeed have greater driving dynamics overall vs Lexus.

When a woman chooses an Infiniti over a Lexus because the infiniti has greater driving dynamics...there you go. Proof is in the pudding. When a woman likes what she feels, she wants more!

[UofMG35]

WhiteAlltrac. Here's a blurb from Mark Gillies of Car and Driver. A magazine that any driving enthusiast respects far more than Rodent Track:

"BMW casts a long shadow over every contender in the near-luxury segment. But the G35 now makes a fine case for itself against the 3-series, especially as it is likely to be cheaper. The G35 also brings up another comparison, to wit: Why on earth would one buy a Lexus IS350? The Lexus isn’t appreciably quicker, doesn’t look as good, and is a fairly anodyne driving experience, whereas the G35 is a very soulful machine. The Lexus has a more beautifully wrought interior than the G35’s (much improved) cabin, but that’s about its only advantage. In short, Infiniti does a much better job of being the Japanese luxury brand that makes cars we want to drive."

Here's one from Joe Lorio at Automobile Magazine:

"The Lime Rock experience did show the G35 to be a natural athlete. The G35 is a neutral handler with plentiful grip, but you can coax out its rear end more easily by lifting the throttle than by booting it, and the car behaves well at the limit. With its firmer dampers, the Sport model also displays better body control than its predecessor, yet the ride quality is very nice--and very similar to the BMW's.


In its chassis tuning, its tightened embrace of technology, and--if you load up on all the new options--its price, the G35 is, more than ever, a Japanese 3-series."

You'll never hear the IS350 called the "Japanese 3-series". That is the ultimate compliment for a sports sedan.

I could find more quotes for you if you'd like. Just let me know.

[WhiteAlltrac]

WhiteAlltrac. Here's a blurb from Mark Gillies of Car and Driver. A magazine that any driving enthusiast respects far more than Rodent Track:

"BMW casts a long shadow over every contender in the near-luxury segment. But the G35 now makes a fine case for itself against the 3-series, especially as it is likely to be cheaper. The G35 also brings up another comparison, to wit: Why on earth would one buy a Lexus IS350? The Lexus isn’t appreciably quicker, doesn’t look as good, and is a fairly anodyne driving experience, whereas the G35 is a very soulful machine. The Lexus has a more beautifully wrought interior than the G35’s (much improved) cabin, but that’s about its only advantage. In short, Infiniti does a much better job of being the Japanese luxury brand that makes cars we want to drive."

Here's one from Joe Lorio at Automobile Magazine:

"The Lime Rock experience did show the G35 to be a natural athlete. The G35 is a neutral handler with plentiful grip, but you can coax out its rear end more easily by lifting the throttle than by booting it, and the car behaves well at the limit. With its firmer dampers, the Sport model also displays better body control than its predecessor, yet the ride quality is very nice--and very similar to the BMW's.


In its chassis tuning, its tightened embrace of technology, and--if you load up on all the new options--its price, the G35 is, more than ever, a Japanese 3-series."

You'll never hear the IS350 called the "Japanese 3-series". That is the ultimate compliment for a sports sedan.

I could find more quotes for you if you'd like. Just let me know.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You know I could find tons of these quotes too but that does not constitute one vehicle having better Dynamics than the other.
The G probably has what you are looking for and the IS has what the G is missing or vise versa. Bottom line is that I dont see where one can say that the G has greater dynamics than the IS350. Numbers do count and I dont know what your definition for "dynamics" is??? You probably dont even know the true meaning of it.



EXAMPLE OF A DYNAMICS TEST BENCH FOR A SPORT VEHICLE

MIScaleX = 2.850
//Size of Car X-Axis

MIScaleY = 4.800
//Size of Car Y-Axis

MIScaleZ = 1.950
//Size of Car Z-Axis

CofGOffsetX = 0.000
CofGOffsetY = 0.425
CofGRatioZ = 0.530
wheelInertia = 2.500

wheelMass = 11.000
//Weight of each wheel assembly in Kilograms. To convert from pounds to
//kilograms, just multiply by 2.2

gripScale = 1.500
//Overall grip of tires, but there are a ton of gripScale Values here,
//still unsure of each values EXACT impact

transverseGripScale = 1.170
forwardGripScale = 0.840
forwardGripScale2 = 0.780
backwardGripScale = 1.390
slidingGripScale = 1.800
surfaceRoughness = 0.000

frontGripScale = 1.000
//Front Tire Grip, could possible be known as Air Pressure.

rearGripScale = 1.000
//Rear Tire Grip, could possible be known as Air Pressure.

frontTransverseGripScale = 0.983
rearTransverseGripScale = 1.020
tyreSlip = 0.080
tyreSlipMinimumScale = 3.000
transverseTyreSlipScale = 0.880
frontTyreSlipScale = 1.000
rearTyreSlipScale = 0.880
loadTransfer = 1.000
loadDependence = 0.050
transverseLoadTransfer = 0.600

airFriction = 0.500
//Drag Coeffieciency

rollingFriction = 0.100
transverseAirFrictionScale = 0.500

downForce = 0.550
//Pretty self-explanatory. This value is for how much force is being applied
//against your car to the road. More resistance = better turning and better
//handling, but decreases Top Speed and some Acceleration.

downForceRatioZ = 0.000
//Unsure

constantDownForce = 0.380
//Overall, just what the name says, Constant.

antiSpin = 0.000
//The resistance of Spinning out.

antiFlip = 10000.000
//The resistance of Flipping your vehicle.

catSpring = 280.000
airFrictionTorque = 0.000

steerTimeMinimum = 0.300
//The lowest amount of time it takes to turn your wheels from left to
//right.

steerTimeMaximum = 0.400
//The maximum amount of time it takes to turn your wheels from left to
//right.

steerReturnTimeScale = 0.150
//How quickly your wheel returns to the "straight" position

steerLossScale1 = 5.000
//Unsure, Something with Front Wheels

steerLossScale2 = 15.000
//Unsure, Something with Rear Wheels

minimumSteerScale = 1.500
slidingSteerScale1 = 50.000
slidingSteerScale2 = 0.500
steerCorrection = 0.000
stabilityControl = 0.000

steeringLimit = 0.650
//How far you can turn your wheels

frontSpringConstant = 7.057
frontSpringDampingBump = 5.400
frontSpringDampingRelease = 10.800
rearSpringConstant = 6.012
rearSpringDampingBump = 4.600
rearSpringDampingRelease = 9.200
springProgression = 0.150

frontAntiRoll = 60.000
//Stiffness of your front Swaybar (ft lbs.)

rearAntiRoll = 70.000
//Stiffness of your rear Swaybar (ft lbs.)

maxSuspensionMovement = 0.080
//How far your front end of your car can travel

maxSuspensionMovement2 = 0.100
//How far the rear end of your car can travel

frontWheelBaseScale = 1.000
//The size of your cars wheel base from front wheel to back wheel.

rearToe = 0.100
//Alignment - Rear Toe

suspensionAngle = -0.500
//Alignment - Camber

brakeType = 65537
//Brake Type
//65537 = 4 Wheel ABS

frontBrakeForce = 1.000
//Strength of front brakes (1.000 = 100%)

rearBrakeForce = 1.500
//Strength of rear brakes (1.500 = 150%)

ABSBrakeBalance = 0.500
//Balance of braking between the front and rear brakes.

handbrakeForce = 0.862
//The force of your E-Brake.
//(handbrakeForce *2200)

tractionControl = 0
//0=No
//1=Yes

tractionControlReverse = 1
//Same as Above

tyreSlipModel = 0

driveBalance = 0.500
//Drive Balance between Left and Right Axles

rearDifferential = 0.063
//Rear Differential Lockup under Load %
//Rear world (rearDifferential*1000)

frontDifferential = 0.000
//Same as above for front wheel drive vehicles.

midDifferential = 0.000
//Same as above for All wheel drive vehicles.

engineBraking = 1.300
engineBrakingInternal = 2.000

engineInertia = 0.200
//Efficiency of Engine

turboInertia = 1.000
//Efficiency of Turbo

turboFriction = 3.120

turboMaxRPM = 7000.00
turboOverdrive = 10.000

maxBoost = 15.000
//Maximum Boost (PSI)

boostRPM = 0.000
//Desired RPM for Maximum Boost

maxRevs = 7000.000
//Max RPM displayed on Tach

gearDownRatio = 0.810
//(gearDownRatio*1000)

audioRevLimit = 7000.000
//Self explanatory

idleRevs = 900.000
//Engine Idle

startOffRevs = 1000.000
startOffRevs2 = 2000.000
tractionControlSlipScale = 1.000
tractionControlSlipScaleR = 9.000

torqueCurve0 = 0.770
//This Curve is a percentage of torque from the peakTorque value below.
//Value*100 = %
//Power from 0-999 RPM

torqueCurve1 = 0.830
//Power from 1000-1999 RPM

torqueCurve2 = 0.870
//Power from 2000-2999 RPM

torqueCurve3 = 0.890
//Power from 3000-3999 RPM

torqueCurve4 = 0.950
//Power from 4000-4999 RPM

torqueCurve5 = 1.000
//Power from 5000-5999 RPM

torqueCurve6 = 0.980
//Power from 6000-6999 RPM

torqueCurve7 = 0.940
//Power from 7000-7999 RPM

torqueCurve8 = 0.900
//Power from 8000-8999 RPM

torqueCurve9 = 0.800
//Power from 9000-9999 RPM

torqueCurve10 = 0.680
//Power from 10000-10999 RPM

clutchDelay = 0.100
//Delay between shifting gears (I assume in mS = clutchDelay*100)

wheelSpinSpeed = 20.000
suspensionScale = 0.510
collisionScale = 1.000
frontSlipScale = 0.450
rearSlipScale = 0.520

engineVibrationScale = 3.000

engineResonanceScale = 0.200
engineResonanceRPM = 4000.000
frontCornerDistance = 0.300
rearCornerDistance = 0.250

mass = 1150.000
//Weight of vehicle in Kilograms (Mulitply by 2.2 to convert to pounds)

driveType = 0
//Drivetrain Type
//0=RWD
//1=FWD
//2=AWD

turboCharged = 0
//Self Explanatory
//0=Naturally Aspirated
//1=Forced Induction

peakTorque = 800.00
//Engine Power

revLimit = 7000.000
//Rev Limit on your Tach

topGear = 6

finalRatio = 3.110
//Final Gear Ratio
//High = Acceleration
//Low = Top Speed

gearRatios0 = 2.980
//Gear Ratio for Reverse

gearRatios1 = 0.000
//Gear Ratio for Neutral

gearRatios2 = 2.980
//Gear Ratio for 1st Gear

gearRatios3 = 1.990
//Gear Ratio for 2nd Gear

gearRatios4 = 1.500
//Gear Ratio for 3rd Gear

gearRatios5 = 1.200
//Gear Ratio for 4th Gear

gearRatios6 = 0.830
//Gear Ratio for 5th Gear

gearRatios7 = 0.560
//Gear Ratio for 6th Gear

TyreDiameter = 0.664
//Overall Diameter of your Tire

And the list continues on but I don't want to clutter this thread with this, just wanted to show that for one to say any given vehicle has MORE dynamics than another you better know what you are talking about because you and I know for a fact that these magazines DO NOT perform a TRUE dynamics test on them, just a small overall test which Lexus has come on top over the G in most typical comparisons.

Ok I had enough of this, lets move to the next thread..........

[UofMG35]

And the list continues on but I don't want to clutter this thread with this

Oops... too late.

[camber]

Stop it your hurting everyone's head. First off, vehicle dynamics is the study of forces and their effects on a vehicle in motion.

When a automotive reviewer says that one vehicle has better dynamics then another(ex. majority of reviews say the G35 has better dynamics then the IS). They are in fact using mostly their personal observation and expertise to judge cars by feel. Although, most car reviews do observe and test certain limited amount vehicle dynamics by certain metrics, they're not exhaustive but do help the reviewer in judging the vehicle.

In general most people will use the personal observations of an expert(ie. professional car journalist/reviewer) without relying so much on hard data or tests when commenting on vehicle dynamics. When things are judge like this, the results maybe aren't as conclusive(ie. results and opinion will vary) with other means of testing.

Anyways, in the instance of the G35 versus the IS. The IS has been universally panned as not having as good as vehicle dynamics as the G or 3 series by professionals reviewers/auto journalists. Also, in the limited vehicle testing dynamic testing that most magazines obeserve, it seems that the IS350 seems to do really well in one category(acceleration under a 100 mph) while is on par or worse in other categories when compared to the G.

If you could get the exact figures of your list tested by a proper third party of the IS and G then you might be able to prove your point that IS has better vehicle dynamics if it tested better. However, when judging vehicle dynamics for consumer cars, most reviews conclusions use the personal personal observations of a professional with relevant experience in that field.


which Lexus has come on top over the G in most typical comparisons.


Ummmmm..... No.

[montyz81]

I been reading many statements that are exactly like yours on many other forums but using "Camry" never with "Lexus". I think the Camry is a better fit to your statement.

I doubt an IS350 has poorer dynamics than your G but if YOU think it does has less dynamics then go with the IS-F and if that does not meets what you are looking for then wait for the LA-F.

You see Lexus has an answer for you, Infiniti has no more answers, it stops with the "G"....

Infiniti does have the answers. That is why the G is outselling and the M is selling as well as their Lexus equals. As they pick away at the rest of the cars in the division, they too will compete or outsell their lexus counterparts.

All I am saying here, is that the public is speaking out about the cars they prefer, not the Trade Magazines. And to the Manf. Sales are what they are concerned with the most.

[kleineGTI]

Lexus targets Benz: luxury, pretentiousness, soft ride
Infiniti targets BMW: sport, power
This sums it up pretty well. Another analogous comparison, albeit on a much lower level, is Buick (Lexus) vs. Pontiac (Infiniti).

One qualifier, while Benz's are definitely pretentious, they're not one speck more pretentious than BMW's.

While BMW's are fine, fine automobiles, the primary reason they are purchased is vanity. It's a shame all those great driver's cars are languishing in the hands of folks who don't care about that; they just want to impress people.

[SHIFT_6speeds]

...while Benz's are definitely pretentious, they're not one speck more pretentious than BMW's.

I disagree The benz is defiantely is more than a speck pretentious. Benz has more look at me chrome and huge cow catcher chrome grilles, and many Benzes have TWO Benz emblems in the front (grille and hood. And many of the hood emblems are the stand up ornament kind). I've never seen a BMW with a chrome stand up hood ormanent. That kind of crap is what is so pretentious.

[M_TYPE_X]

I disagree The benz is defiantely is more than a speck pretentious. Benz has more look at me chrome and huge cow catcher chrome grilles, and many Benzes have TWO Benz emblems in the front (grille and hood. And many of the hood emblems are the stand up ornament kind). I've never seen a BMW with a chrome stand up hood ormanent. That kind of crap is what is so pretentious.
I second the motion for the consideration of the emancipation proclamation. Benzes have more presence.
BMWs are merely ... you've heard the jokes about the pricks-on-the-inside.

Then again: it takes WORK to engineer a BMW's road feel.
Benzes can be "copied" by Korean scam designers.

[1995Q45]

Infiniti needs to work harder to wear Lexus shoes as a luxury brand.
This was a disastrous strategy for the FY33 and F50 Q45.

Infiniti should have stayed with performance as its calling card, and minimized the gadgetry and soft ride.

[SukairainKupe]

G35 Sales > IS250+IS350 sales

M35/M45 Sales > GS300/GS430/GS450h Sales

FX35/FX45 << RX330/RX400h

QX56 > LX470

LS430 >>>> Q45

ES350 OWNS ALL

[NissLover]

The RX owns all too. Those two cars are the only reason Lexus sells as much as they do.

EDIT: Whoa, they are selling 3,000+ LS a month. Thats crazy! So the LS outsells the GS?

[charley240sx]

G35 Sales > IS250+IS350 sales

M35/M45 Sales > GS300/GS430/GS450h Sales

FX35/FX45 << RX330/RX400h

QX56 > LX470

LS430 >>>> Q45

ES350 OWNS ALL
g35's have been around longer, youre comparing a car that has been around longer than the 1year old cars.
id highly doubt the m35/45 outsells the gs platforms
qx56 umm is believable
man. not to be rude. but.....
give respect where respect is due.
some of you guys are like nothing is better than an infiniti/nissan. i used to be the same way. not anymore. infiniti is more performance oriented, while lexus is more luxury oriented. just buy what suits your needs more.
Charley

[Madmaster]

Toyota does a good job of differentiating the camry from the Avalon and the ES350 (camry) from the IS. I wonder if Nissan could pull off a Maxima or even, gasp, Altima, rebadge, to fight the ES350? The ES is one product Infiniti has no current answer to since the demise of the Infinitized Maxima, though it saddens me to think of a Maxima competing with a Camry. But with that power and price, an Infiniti Maxima would proly eat into G35 sales. The ES350 requires a tough to find solution.

Reason the RX outsells the FX probably is overall practicality IMO. RX is the Camry of crossover luxo SUVs, i.e. dependable, pretty good quality, and bland as hell. People desire practicality over sportiness. The FX is certainly unique in its own good way, though. VQ37/larger V8 needed soon.

The QX will definately need some help, especially with the quality concerns that have been brought up in the past. When the LX570 is released with the typical Land Cruiser depandability with almost 400 hp and 400 ft lbs and a Lexus interior, QX sales will drop. However, the LX is considerably more expensive than the QX. Quality aside, the QX still represents a great value in capability and performance in its class. Time and time again there's the arguments of an Infiniti Mid Size SUV. If the FX grows in size and gas prices creep up again, I'm not sure how practical a QX40 would be, though I don't know how well the GX is selling.

As mentioned time and time again in various threads, Infiniti needs something to compete against the IS250. Though it may not be good to release cheaper cars in a Luxury brand, it can introduce younger buyers to the brand, and if satisfied, they can graduate to more expensive models later on. Not to mention a G25 would be fuel efficient as well.

Hopefully the CX25/35 are on their way soon. Acura's RDX, Mazda's CX, and BMW's X3 have no answer. And considering all of the FX's competitors have 3 rows, I say have an optional 3rd row in the FX. If people want to keep the lighter weight FX, they can go to the CX37.

The M is doing fine for now but will soon need updating. The GS460 with 380 hp and an 8 speed auto is quickly approaching, and the GS350 could bear similar performance to the M45. Infiniti needs to up the ante. VQ37/larger V8 needed soon.

Everyone knows Infiniti needs the Q. A sporty halo car would be nice as well. Would be interesting if Nissan could pull off a stripped down, cheaper, bare bones GT-R as a Nissan and a more powerful, more refined, luxurious GT-R in Infiniti. Realistically that'd be a bit much but hey wouldn't it be nice. But perhaps rumors of the VQHR37TT in the G35 will come true.


And all that, in my humble opinion, is what Infiniti needs for the near future.

[SukairainKupe]

g35's have been around longer, youre comparing a car that has been around longer than the 1year old cars.
id highly doubt the m35/45 outsells the gs platforms
qx56 umm is believable
man. not to be rude. but.....
give respect where respect is due.
some of you guys are like nothing is better than an infiniti/nissan. i used to be the same way. not anymore. infiniti is more performance oriented, while lexus is more luxury oriented. just buy what suits your needs more.
Charley

Well, these are stastic sales number from Dec. & January - FACTS, not opinion or guesses. I didn't form an opinion as to which vehicle is better.

btw1: IS350 has actually been around longer than the 07 G35.
btw2: M35/45 outsold the GS platform in January
btw3: QX56 outsold LX470, that's statistics as well.
btw4: Given the above 3 I say we should give Infiniti some props when they have done a good job. (and continue to bash their flagship since its sales number has been a coffee table joke for the past decade)

[UofMG35]

g35's have been around longer, youre comparing a car that has been around longer than the 1year old cars.

IS300 came out in 2001 MY
G35 came out in 2003 MY
IS300 has been around longer (although it's called IS250/350 now).

[M_TYPE_X]

The ES has been around forever, since it was the ES250, back in 1990.
It's as old a model line in the Lexus lineup as the LS. The GS line also goes
waaaaaaay back.

And you wonder why Lexus sells.

[07G35S]

some of you guys are like nothing is better than an infiniti/nissan.

Why is it surprising that people on a nissan/infiniti forum think that nissan/infiniti is the best?

I think that Madmaster's suggestions would definitely benefit the line, but as far as the FX series is concerned poor sales are because there is no middle ground on its aggressive styling. People either love it or hate it.

LX570? wow... whats the marketing tool on this? For those who think 13mpg in a LX470 is too high? hehe (my mom had one... she was spending 500 dollars a month on gas.)

As far as an answer to the ES, I'd rather Infiniti continue to make performance oriented cars and not lower themself to the "refined boat on wheels" status of the ES.

[kam5927]

Well imagine that. Performance and quality without having to rape your wallet. Who woulda thunk it.


Okay, apparently not BMW.


of course not...especially when a brand knows it can get sales simply from their brand name.

STill, Bimmers aren't what they used to be.

[enfield]

My BMW dealer was trying to get me to sell my FX45 and get a new X5. My 04 FX45 is a better drive!! I got the BMW Z4M because there is no comparable Infiniti model.... If there was then I would probably have gone with Infiniti.

[Badman Forever]

it really comes down to the person. if you want strictly the best handling (from factory) you can get.. sure get a g35 or 3 series. but the new i-s has a 'almost as good' stock handling characteristic (compared to g35/3series) for any real-world driving situation. car enthusiasts make up a very small portion of car sales for most car makes. these days, companies that stay in good business are ones that make vehicles for the prestige and/or or dependability factors. the sport factor typically comes in last. you see alot of people either wanting to 'look' rich.. or just need a trustworthy vehicle to get to work and back. who cares if it makes you feel like a movie star in the fast n furious? i guess just us kids here. :auto:

[gt_performah]

But Ganal says he's more worried about Nissan's (nasdaq: NSANY (http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=NSANY) - news (http://www.forbes.com/markets/company_news.jhtml?ticker=NSANY)- people (http://www.forbes.com/peopletracker/results.jhtml?startRow=0&name=&ticker=NSANY)) Infiniti brand, which is positioned directly below BMW. "Infiniti is more dangerous than Lexus," he says. Its sporty performance lineup is priced 10% to 15% lower than comparable BMW models. Yet Ganal insists BMW will stand pat against the competition. "We will not move down to attack Infiniti at eye level."
You ever hear that saying that goes "the enemy of my enemy is my ally".

This comment is nothing but a business tactic meant to undermine Lexus' accomplishments and confidence by claiming Infinti is a stronger competitor. The big wigs at BMW are not seriously worried about Infiniti. Not until we double those sales on all our vehicles.

[Jesda]

Infiniti isn't trying to wear "Lexus shoes". If my G35 rode like a Lexus I wouldn't have bought it...

Quoted for truth.

[PooFlinginMonkey]

Lexus already dropped the ball.

I'm a former lexus diagnostic specialist and I bailed because Lexus just started resting on their laurels and started copying U.S. manufacturers by releasing defective product and letting the tech's at the dealerships fix what should have been fixed by the engineers before the car was released.

That said, I've taken a 1998 lexus GS through the quarter at 13.5 after we installed a slightly higher (numerically) final drive.

[KevinM5]

I think from BMW's view it is a balance of price vs. quantity. If they lower their price to maintain share vs. the Japanese than they may also make less money. They have always been a profitable car company and there is no doubt the Japanese competition--from much, much larger companies with huge economies of scale advantage-- has no doubt forced them to add all the bells and whistles for the same price.

I think Nissan was the first to really try to compete with them by offering a 4 door manual rwd car. As far as I am concerned, the fact Lexus doesn't offer a manual in the IS350 is a deal-breaker. Plus, I think a 4 door 3 and 4 door G35 look like a small/mid sports sedan and the IS350 still has a smaller, more "toyish" (can't think of the right word) look to it. It is a bit flashy for my tastes.

The best deals in the Bimmers now are a base, 6 speed 328i. Pretty quick car, good fuel economy and at a decent price point vs. the 335i. It just keeps getting better for car enthusiasts any way you look at it.