**DONOTDELETE**
05-15-2000, 06:52 AM
Own an auto 93 Sentra XE 4-dr with 205/50R15
tires.
In comparison to the SE 2000 auto I test drove and inspected here's my feelings, mostly points that aren't as good vs. the older Sentras:
1. Dumb vent design. You can't shut the far left and right air vents completely like you could with the 93' model, so you'll always get air moving around the side of your face if you've got the fan on. Even a cheap Tercel has on/off vents.
2. Cheap knobs. The cheap plastic radio and vent knobs feel like they'll break after a few months of use and sun. They don't feel tight and have no audible click for the vent dial (unlike even the cheap Tercel which also had a dial, but clicked at each position so you knew by ear what setting you've turned it to).
3. Cheap power window control. The stick control on the 93' models were fine. Did the job, and only a flat push panel like the Honda's would have been better. Instead, they stuck a round, indented circle thing on top, thinking you'd get a better grip. Instead, you're left wondering whether to push or pull, and doing either on the cheap knob makes you feel like you're gonna rip the ill-attached, and loose feeling thing off.
4. Sitting down in the seat feels less firm than the 93' seats. More plush, like the Altima, although everything feels like it's the same distance from you as in the 93' model.
4. View is okay, but eveyrthing's higher up, so you don't get as panoramic of an view as with the 93' model, which has lower window sills. Not quite as bad as sinking into a Buick, but getting there. View all around is good, so no problems checking blind spots.
5. Immediate feeling sitting down and closing the door is one of being closed in noticably more than the 93' model. Almost as if all that new padding and soundproofing they added took room from the inside and made the walls seem closer to you.
6. Titanium dials are not as white as they ought to be, more like a light gray, and that makes it harder to read in darker, sunset hours when it's not dark, but not light enough to give the dials some contrast. Wish they were white.
7. Stupid cup holder design. So they went from th e 93' model that could fit a regular cup and had a auto-flip down metal bar under the cup to hold it, to the all plastic design of the prior Sentra that still held only a regular cup, to the new one whic uses a rubber shaped insert to hold your regular sized cups. You must remove the entire insert to reveal the larger plastic molded large cup holders underneath which is built into the floor ahead of the shift. Where are you gonna put that rubber insert? Why didn't they simply do a dual-level indentation - one for regular, one for large instead?
Sigh... why don't these car companies ever take a long look at the 64oz. Super Big Gulp and do cup holders right, like a Ford Expedition!
8. Trunk release is on the dash, left of the wheel, the fuel tank release is on the floor next to the seat. Pointless move. You get yourself all confused the first several times out trying to figure out dash, floor. Dash, floor. Just put them both in one place, please!!!
9. No rear seat leg room.
I'm only 5' 8" and with my seat properly adjusted, you couldn't fit anything but a starved leg back there in the <3" left. Adjusting forward a bit gives you enough to sit in, but it still feels like somehow there's less room back there than the prior Sentra.
Without a doubt, with the seat properly and comfy adjusted for me, there's far more leg room in my 93' for the back seat passenger (at least 6") vs. the <3" on the new Sentra. And it still feels like it has less rear leg room vs. the prior generation sentra as well, which definitely has more than mine.
10. Entry. Front entry feels the same as mine, no problems. Rear seat entry feels better than the prior generation, where you had to bend and duck to avoid bumps, and my 93' model, where you have to bend a little to squeeze in.
11. Noise. Think Toyota Camry level at cruise. You don't need to raise the level of your voice up to 60mph unlike my 93' which gets dronny at above 45mph (partially due the lower profile 205/50r15's I've got on mine). Not Lexus silent, but comfy enough for an hour's commute w/o an earache.
Accelerating is also decently quite. Not quite loud enough to make you raise your voice, but just enough so that you have to perk your ears and pay more attention to the person next to you to understand through the louder noise.
Feels quieter than the Toyota Corolla.
12. 180 Watt Radio is nothing amazing. Think usual marketing hype and standard cheap compact car radio. Nowhere near the nakamichi in a Lexus, and you might as well think about serious upgrades if you're an audio enthusiast. Somehow, the knobs and pushbuttons keep getting cheaper, and they don't feel as sure as my 93's standard radio. They feel like if you push too hard, they'll break or fall apart in the sunlight with too much UV.
13. Inside door knob. turned it into a stick design like the Accord, and chromed it so it's slicker than the U-pull. Nothing like not able to get a good grip when you've just spent hours in the sunny beach all wet and covered with sun lotion.
14. Suspension. Not great, not bad. Going over 5mph bumps, you'd think with all the plushness inside, it would be good. Nope. Feels like you've just gone 10mph too fast and you've just given the shocks in back the breaking of their life, and generating a loud clunk as they land back to earth. Unexpected since it's so quite otherwise - gaps and tiny road defects going by unnoticed.
15. The drive feel. At speed, the vague steering along with the suspension they've got back there makes it feel too soft and a touch too vague overall. You can't feel where the car is going the first 1-2" of turn to either side, and it feels like they've dampened the road feel to the point where you can't even tell if it's got enough grip underneath or not in a fast turn.
This, maybe, is due to the tires. Probably improperly inflated and not wide enough vs. my 205's, which make my 93' go-cart fun and dependable (I can feel where my 93's going and tiny steering adjustments are felt in the car's path).
Power steering is tweaked for a light touch. Like the prior generation Sentra, and definitely for the tastes of those family cruiser buyers.
Maybe it's because it doesn't have the strut brace of the SE Performance Package, and improperly inflated skinny tires, but it just doesn't feel like a sporty car at all. Certainly I would feel very insecure tossing the new mushy SE around the streets at high speeds vs my 93' with 205's, which doesn't have a stiff body or suspension, but provides lots of feedback regarding when the hard limits are coming around so you can have fun tossing it about near it's limits.
Even the Tercel (just before it got replaced by the Echo), has better steering feel. On the Tercel, you can feel the effects of a tiny steering wheel adjustment easily, and road feel is very good (give it's not a sports car). I'd feel more comfy tossing the Tercel around at high speeds than the SE I test drove.
Maybe they've done something underneath in back (I didn't check to see if they still used the beam axel from their prior generation Sentra), but it doesn't feel as stable either. My 93' definitely has a limit around 110 where the car starts to bump more and lift - becoming unstable. The prior Sentra had it's limit at around 120, and that's with stock tires! before becoming jittery and unstable at speed, mostly due to the nicer beam axle in back (just like the Tercel in fact, big long beam tying everything down and making the car feel much more stable).
In fact, not even as good feeling in the 2K sentra vs. the prior generation Civic coupe. road feel and stability just doesn't factor in here.
so think road-isolated family sedan here and you'll be okay.
16. trunk. Higher pass over vs. my 93' so expect to lift those heavy items higher. Also, the rear wheel wells are farther back, so they actually reduce the available width at the front (point closer to rear) of the truckbed, and the overall length seems odd - feels shorter than my 93', but a little taller. Overall, feels like you won't be able to toss as much into the back, but I haven't measured or compared that. The opening, like all modern compacts, is more of a square than a long rectangle, meaning forget about tossing a big square TV box into the back and tying it down with the hood open -- the TV won't sit back far enough to feel secure and stay in the trunk without tipping off the back end.
Beyond that, the smaller squarish, tall opening also means that it isn't as easy to reach items at the back of the trunk vs. my 93'.
Nice thought as for the cargo hold net they include though.
17. Rear seat room. If you kindly ask the front driver to pull his seat forward a touch, you can squeeze your legs in. Head room is just enough for a 5'8" guy to have 1"-2" left, but any higher means you get to hunch. Doen't have that cavernous feel that I got sitting in the rear of the prior Sentra, probably because the roof is lower or something. Definitely higher than my 93' Sentra, however, in back.
18. Front head room. Strange, but it feels like there isn't as much as in my 93', which seats you lower in the car. The lastest 2K Sentra makes you feel like you've almost maxed out the available headroom, and that's w/o the sunroof option! Yes, there's the adjustable seating, but it wasn't set up high in my test car.
19. Auto, acceleration. Not bad, not great. Got you up to 40-60 mph w/o huffing or puffing, like a car should, so I'd hate to see any other engine but this one in the latest Sentra. (I'm sure the smaller engine would feel sluggish.) Decently quick for a compact, it won't win awards, but feels faster than most other compacts.
Wondering why they offer a Stage II Performance package, but not a standard turbo? This engine has only been around since the 91 SE-Rs, and turbos have been around almost as long. A turbo wouldn't hurt gas mileage much, and at 200-250HP, kill the competition (assuming they can fix the squishy, vague steering and suspension with their Performance Package or next year's release) for only $1000-2000 more for a turbo.
(or thinking it through, why is it the Japanese market always gets the fun stuff - turbo'd standard models, exotic body types ala Skyline, Evo, Type-R, but we never do here in the US?)
20. In the end. Oh, well, back to looking at another car for me....
I'm performace/feel orientated, so even the Civic EX coupe feels better at speed and is more fun to toss about. The Celica GT/GT-S models are almost as cheap as the SE w/Performance Package, and much more fun. And a used 91-93 Lexus SC300/400 will beat the pants off the SE at $15,000 in performance, handling, sound system, luxury, etc.
However, if you want an inexpensive version of a Toyota Camry (quiet, cushy ride, decent engine and acceleration, features), this is as close as you'll get for $15K.
Just don't expect it to feel as stable, steady, sure as even a Tercel or Civic -- thus, no weekend races for you.
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To clear up some of the things I mentioned:
* Cupholders. How hard is it to mold the plastic with a dual level design to hold big and small?
Maybe $1 more if not nothing? Probably costs them more to mold the larger cups into the base, and mold the popout rubber thing for smaller cups.
In any case, terrible design mistake since you don't see any other cars that make you do this go around -- there shouldn't be any need to popout anything at all! (and it reflects badly on Jerry H.'s design skills at Nissan; doesn't he know Americans use bigger cups? http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/wink.gif
* Pricing vs. Celica. see carsdirect.com where prices of the Celica are lower than mentioned by another guy.
Looking at the SE w/Performance Upgrade $16K vs. Celica GT w/Sunroof & Spoiler $18K (vs. GT-S w/Sunroof & Spoiler $21K, which has a much larger engine - but it would be about the same as a SE with turbo/mod upgrades).
* Vs. Used SC300/400. I'm looking at getting a faster, better car myself. My 93' is getting older, so I'm considering new and used cars to upgrade to. A 95/96 SC300 is in the same $15-20K range, and has the pluses I mentioned. Given the fact that some of these Lexuses are neurotically maintained, they ought to last years more. I'm not looking at the original sale price, just a good bargin for the $15-20K range.
I'm not analyzing the car as if it were a $30K car, just a fun&tossable go-cart $15-20K car and making this one outside suggestion in case anyone is thinking along the same lines as I am -- finding a good car with lots of features and good overall balance between price and features.
After all, the SC300 would save me the trouble of upgrading the SE with a turbo, better audio system, etc. and the reviews say it's one-with-the-road in steering feedback.
* People do race Sentras. The SE would be a certain upgrade with a turbo and other modifications, easily pumping out 200-250HP.
The niggles I mentioned against the Sentra was only to help buyers make sure they know about these bad points before buying one -- nothing worse than finding out you hate the car because of one of these downsides after you've bought it.
And, in all, they are mostly cosmetic points --
most people I'm sure will find the Sentra to be an excellent bargin (well, we do have to see what Honda will do with next year's new Civic; and Nissan has never seemed to get it right in the 'looks cool' styling dept., a big reason the Civic is selling so well).
For me, the two points going against it right now are: vague steering, vents that can't close 100%.
I wouldn't mind putting the Sentra up for consideration if the vauge steering thing isn't an issue -- after all, for $16K w/a few K of performance turbo/mods, it's one of the cheapest 200-250HP cars around (esp. insurance-wise). I'm not focusing on racing the baby, just making it fun and tossable like my underpowered 93' go-cart.
The only thing I'm still wondering is why was my test SE so vague in steering response? Was it underinfated tires? Was it becuase it didn't have the Performance Package with stiffer components?
Anybody with a SE w/P.Packg. wanna tell us if it feels nice and tight on the road? Does it have vague steering vs. a Civic? Can you hit three digits and not have to worry about the rear lifting off and bouncing all over?
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Test drove another today to see if the vague steering was due to underinflated tires.
Well, unless they're both underinflated, I'd say the SE still feels vague in steering - on the freeway, you have 1" either way you can turn the wheel w/o having the car drift in that direction.
You just don't feel anything about the road from the small adjustments -- almost like they isolated the steering feel too much.
The suspension is okay to a degree. Flat up to about 35-40mph for turns, but soft and squishy as you go faster. Maybe the Performance Pk. with stiffer shocks will eliminate some of that body roll. You can toss it at 40-50 around turns safely, but the most important feel is lacking -- you don't know where its limits are!! There's no sense that you are ##% away from losing grip and going off the road, just that there's still good grip at the speed you currently are going at.
It's not like my 93' where you can feel it push at the limits and telling you to back off.
Don' tknow if that'll improve with lower profile tires -- Sport Compact Car said the same with the default SE w/Performance Pk. (they tested 0-60 at 8.0 seconds in case anyone wants to know)
You may want to skip the performance pk. with stiffer struts and slightly wider tires, and do it yourself. They only toss on tiny 195's vs. at least a 205, and you can always replace the struts with the stiffer ones as well. That way, you won't have wasted money on the perf. pk. only to replace the wheels again with wider ones.
(what's up with that, too? What dummy would toss 195's on a Stage II setup? Guess car makers aren't in the habit of tossing on seriously fat tires if they're gonna bother at all.) --
Overall, it feels more like a standard, boring 'American' family car (eg. Taurus, whatever). It's lost the crisp build of the Sentra's past to me, and it vanishes among cars in the parking lot.
eg. I didn't look for it, but didn't notice a trunk light. It's there in my 93' XE, so what happened? (Same fate as the air vent 100% close dials?)
It's almost like any other car rental car, and nothing's there to set it apart from the rest.
Even sitting in the Sentra, it isn't all that amazing. The focus has better rear seat room and it's at least more distinctive inside and out.
--
The dials and switches are all grossly laid out -- front hood switch hidden out of view, trunk and gas switches not together, key hole placed lower than you'd expect and lower than older sentras on the steering column (where you can't see it either).
--
Definitely picking something else unless some tuner says otherwise with aftermarket parts (gotta have a turbo; like only the Japanese models have both a variable valve and a turbo engine option - what's up with that?) -- maybe the new 2001 Civic, maybe the Celica or Focus, whatever.
It's just not a Sentra-feeling Sentra anymore -- it's like they sucked the Sentra-ness out of it and left behind an anonymous 'American' car.
Something back there in the road feel just doesn't seem Sentra-y -- even the prior 95-99 model felt Sentra-y like the 91-94 models, but more stable with the use of the torsion beam rear -- so prior owners, expect it not to feel the same.
It's a great, cheap, quite, decently fast family cruiser and starter car however for anyone who doesn't need a car with a very communicative road feel and tossable performance that isn't vague -- a great pick for a decent freeway commuter (esp. the peppy 140HP SE) so you don't have to worry much about depreciating from $16K after 100,000 miles very much.
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Well, after comparing notes on between the two
cars, found they had pretty much the identical size, shape, engines, and most of the other parts.
The same 145HP engine has been around for two years already in the G20t.
The main exception was that the wheelbase was slightly longer in the G20t, giving it a bit more leg room inside - trunk space is the same 11 cu.ft.
So, with the fully decked out Sentra at $17,100ish and the G20t at $21,800ish, you have about a $4,700 difference -- and that buys you a cooler looking toosh, Bose stereo system, illuminated mirrors, lighted trunk, automatic temperature control system, vents that have 100% close on both sides, Homelink option, micron dust/pollen filter option, and the Infiniti badge (but you all already know they're Nissans in disguise, right?).
Or when you think about it, how to sell a $17K Sentra for $21K by throwing in a Bose stereo system, and not labeling it a Nissan. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/wink.gif
Or thinking about it again, the Sentra SE has really been through 3 generations in the same time most cars go through 2 -- SE-R <99 models, G20t 98-00 latest, and SE 2000.
Performance-wise, the 3000lbs G20t does a 8.8 in Car & Driver vs. the 2700lbs Sentra SE at 8.0 in Sport Compact Car.
(turbo on the G20t giving it 5psi boost yields about 200HP with 0-60 in ~6.7 sec, on an automatic even!..; and sniff, no SR20DET 210HP engine from Japan either in any US models...; turbo adds anywhere from $2000-5000)
Annoyingly, the Sentra brochure leaves out a lot of specs traditionally given in a car brochure - no height, leg/head/shoulder room, etc. You actually have to buy an issue of Car & Driver to find out these specs -- com'on Nissan!! -- that's being far too cheap! You can't save that much money cutting that out and trying to save paper that way....
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It's true that beyond a certain point, plus sizing
a tire too far will result in cool looks, but rather poor performance due to the increased mass and drag.
But plus sizing two from the default (ie. 205/50R15 on my 93') is still in the comfy range for any car, and won't cause much trouble if utmost performance (ie. drag strip car) isn't necessary or achievable (just how fast can a 93' XE go, eh?).
I feel that fatter tires (to a degree, usually plus one or plus two sizing) are better in general for any car.
benefits include: * more grip = faster turns possible in emergency maneuvers or just tossing it around a corner. * more grip = faster speed while maintaining contact in the rain. * better feel. smaller, thinner tires are simply mushier. stiffer sidewalls in low profile tires communicate road feel and where the car is going much better - you get a better feedback as to the limits the car has upcoming in turns and such. * shorter braking distances. due to greater grip and increased road contact. yielding shorter, safer stops w/o having to upgrade your brakes at all.
In fact, it's what I'd toss onto any car, esp. those given to kids by their parents.
One of the main problems is that kids don't have a good feel for how fast they can go and still maintain control -- ala that SUV that jumped a curb and mowed a row of peds. down a few weeks ago -- the kid was 16. Fatter tires prevent premature skidding and loss of control that usually results in spinouts and such, providing that extra grip at highway speeds to keep you from going into the walls during emergency maneuvers. Fatter tires result in shorter braking distances to help young drivers stay out of the rear end of the car in front of them. And they let kids safely go fast in rainy days when they shouldn't w/o hyrdroplng.
(parents read the above again and get fatter tires -- cheap way to extra safety margin and better car control in emergencies)
In any case, 205's fill the width better and look a bit cooler...
tires.
In comparison to the SE 2000 auto I test drove and inspected here's my feelings, mostly points that aren't as good vs. the older Sentras:
1. Dumb vent design. You can't shut the far left and right air vents completely like you could with the 93' model, so you'll always get air moving around the side of your face if you've got the fan on. Even a cheap Tercel has on/off vents.
2. Cheap knobs. The cheap plastic radio and vent knobs feel like they'll break after a few months of use and sun. They don't feel tight and have no audible click for the vent dial (unlike even the cheap Tercel which also had a dial, but clicked at each position so you knew by ear what setting you've turned it to).
3. Cheap power window control. The stick control on the 93' models were fine. Did the job, and only a flat push panel like the Honda's would have been better. Instead, they stuck a round, indented circle thing on top, thinking you'd get a better grip. Instead, you're left wondering whether to push or pull, and doing either on the cheap knob makes you feel like you're gonna rip the ill-attached, and loose feeling thing off.
4. Sitting down in the seat feels less firm than the 93' seats. More plush, like the Altima, although everything feels like it's the same distance from you as in the 93' model.
4. View is okay, but eveyrthing's higher up, so you don't get as panoramic of an view as with the 93' model, which has lower window sills. Not quite as bad as sinking into a Buick, but getting there. View all around is good, so no problems checking blind spots.
5. Immediate feeling sitting down and closing the door is one of being closed in noticably more than the 93' model. Almost as if all that new padding and soundproofing they added took room from the inside and made the walls seem closer to you.
6. Titanium dials are not as white as they ought to be, more like a light gray, and that makes it harder to read in darker, sunset hours when it's not dark, but not light enough to give the dials some contrast. Wish they were white.
7. Stupid cup holder design. So they went from th e 93' model that could fit a regular cup and had a auto-flip down metal bar under the cup to hold it, to the all plastic design of the prior Sentra that still held only a regular cup, to the new one whic uses a rubber shaped insert to hold your regular sized cups. You must remove the entire insert to reveal the larger plastic molded large cup holders underneath which is built into the floor ahead of the shift. Where are you gonna put that rubber insert? Why didn't they simply do a dual-level indentation - one for regular, one for large instead?
Sigh... why don't these car companies ever take a long look at the 64oz. Super Big Gulp and do cup holders right, like a Ford Expedition!
8. Trunk release is on the dash, left of the wheel, the fuel tank release is on the floor next to the seat. Pointless move. You get yourself all confused the first several times out trying to figure out dash, floor. Dash, floor. Just put them both in one place, please!!!
9. No rear seat leg room.
I'm only 5' 8" and with my seat properly adjusted, you couldn't fit anything but a starved leg back there in the <3" left. Adjusting forward a bit gives you enough to sit in, but it still feels like somehow there's less room back there than the prior Sentra.
Without a doubt, with the seat properly and comfy adjusted for me, there's far more leg room in my 93' for the back seat passenger (at least 6") vs. the <3" on the new Sentra. And it still feels like it has less rear leg room vs. the prior generation sentra as well, which definitely has more than mine.
10. Entry. Front entry feels the same as mine, no problems. Rear seat entry feels better than the prior generation, where you had to bend and duck to avoid bumps, and my 93' model, where you have to bend a little to squeeze in.
11. Noise. Think Toyota Camry level at cruise. You don't need to raise the level of your voice up to 60mph unlike my 93' which gets dronny at above 45mph (partially due the lower profile 205/50r15's I've got on mine). Not Lexus silent, but comfy enough for an hour's commute w/o an earache.
Accelerating is also decently quite. Not quite loud enough to make you raise your voice, but just enough so that you have to perk your ears and pay more attention to the person next to you to understand through the louder noise.
Feels quieter than the Toyota Corolla.
12. 180 Watt Radio is nothing amazing. Think usual marketing hype and standard cheap compact car radio. Nowhere near the nakamichi in a Lexus, and you might as well think about serious upgrades if you're an audio enthusiast. Somehow, the knobs and pushbuttons keep getting cheaper, and they don't feel as sure as my 93's standard radio. They feel like if you push too hard, they'll break or fall apart in the sunlight with too much UV.
13. Inside door knob. turned it into a stick design like the Accord, and chromed it so it's slicker than the U-pull. Nothing like not able to get a good grip when you've just spent hours in the sunny beach all wet and covered with sun lotion.
14. Suspension. Not great, not bad. Going over 5mph bumps, you'd think with all the plushness inside, it would be good. Nope. Feels like you've just gone 10mph too fast and you've just given the shocks in back the breaking of their life, and generating a loud clunk as they land back to earth. Unexpected since it's so quite otherwise - gaps and tiny road defects going by unnoticed.
15. The drive feel. At speed, the vague steering along with the suspension they've got back there makes it feel too soft and a touch too vague overall. You can't feel where the car is going the first 1-2" of turn to either side, and it feels like they've dampened the road feel to the point where you can't even tell if it's got enough grip underneath or not in a fast turn.
This, maybe, is due to the tires. Probably improperly inflated and not wide enough vs. my 205's, which make my 93' go-cart fun and dependable (I can feel where my 93's going and tiny steering adjustments are felt in the car's path).
Power steering is tweaked for a light touch. Like the prior generation Sentra, and definitely for the tastes of those family cruiser buyers.
Maybe it's because it doesn't have the strut brace of the SE Performance Package, and improperly inflated skinny tires, but it just doesn't feel like a sporty car at all. Certainly I would feel very insecure tossing the new mushy SE around the streets at high speeds vs my 93' with 205's, which doesn't have a stiff body or suspension, but provides lots of feedback regarding when the hard limits are coming around so you can have fun tossing it about near it's limits.
Even the Tercel (just before it got replaced by the Echo), has better steering feel. On the Tercel, you can feel the effects of a tiny steering wheel adjustment easily, and road feel is very good (give it's not a sports car). I'd feel more comfy tossing the Tercel around at high speeds than the SE I test drove.
Maybe they've done something underneath in back (I didn't check to see if they still used the beam axel from their prior generation Sentra), but it doesn't feel as stable either. My 93' definitely has a limit around 110 where the car starts to bump more and lift - becoming unstable. The prior Sentra had it's limit at around 120, and that's with stock tires! before becoming jittery and unstable at speed, mostly due to the nicer beam axle in back (just like the Tercel in fact, big long beam tying everything down and making the car feel much more stable).
In fact, not even as good feeling in the 2K sentra vs. the prior generation Civic coupe. road feel and stability just doesn't factor in here.
so think road-isolated family sedan here and you'll be okay.
16. trunk. Higher pass over vs. my 93' so expect to lift those heavy items higher. Also, the rear wheel wells are farther back, so they actually reduce the available width at the front (point closer to rear) of the truckbed, and the overall length seems odd - feels shorter than my 93', but a little taller. Overall, feels like you won't be able to toss as much into the back, but I haven't measured or compared that. The opening, like all modern compacts, is more of a square than a long rectangle, meaning forget about tossing a big square TV box into the back and tying it down with the hood open -- the TV won't sit back far enough to feel secure and stay in the trunk without tipping off the back end.
Beyond that, the smaller squarish, tall opening also means that it isn't as easy to reach items at the back of the trunk vs. my 93'.
Nice thought as for the cargo hold net they include though.
17. Rear seat room. If you kindly ask the front driver to pull his seat forward a touch, you can squeeze your legs in. Head room is just enough for a 5'8" guy to have 1"-2" left, but any higher means you get to hunch. Doen't have that cavernous feel that I got sitting in the rear of the prior Sentra, probably because the roof is lower or something. Definitely higher than my 93' Sentra, however, in back.
18. Front head room. Strange, but it feels like there isn't as much as in my 93', which seats you lower in the car. The lastest 2K Sentra makes you feel like you've almost maxed out the available headroom, and that's w/o the sunroof option! Yes, there's the adjustable seating, but it wasn't set up high in my test car.
19. Auto, acceleration. Not bad, not great. Got you up to 40-60 mph w/o huffing or puffing, like a car should, so I'd hate to see any other engine but this one in the latest Sentra. (I'm sure the smaller engine would feel sluggish.) Decently quick for a compact, it won't win awards, but feels faster than most other compacts.
Wondering why they offer a Stage II Performance package, but not a standard turbo? This engine has only been around since the 91 SE-Rs, and turbos have been around almost as long. A turbo wouldn't hurt gas mileage much, and at 200-250HP, kill the competition (assuming they can fix the squishy, vague steering and suspension with their Performance Package or next year's release) for only $1000-2000 more for a turbo.
(or thinking it through, why is it the Japanese market always gets the fun stuff - turbo'd standard models, exotic body types ala Skyline, Evo, Type-R, but we never do here in the US?)
20. In the end. Oh, well, back to looking at another car for me....
I'm performace/feel orientated, so even the Civic EX coupe feels better at speed and is more fun to toss about. The Celica GT/GT-S models are almost as cheap as the SE w/Performance Package, and much more fun. And a used 91-93 Lexus SC300/400 will beat the pants off the SE at $15,000 in performance, handling, sound system, luxury, etc.
However, if you want an inexpensive version of a Toyota Camry (quiet, cushy ride, decent engine and acceleration, features), this is as close as you'll get for $15K.
Just don't expect it to feel as stable, steady, sure as even a Tercel or Civic -- thus, no weekend races for you.
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To clear up some of the things I mentioned:
* Cupholders. How hard is it to mold the plastic with a dual level design to hold big and small?
Maybe $1 more if not nothing? Probably costs them more to mold the larger cups into the base, and mold the popout rubber thing for smaller cups.
In any case, terrible design mistake since you don't see any other cars that make you do this go around -- there shouldn't be any need to popout anything at all! (and it reflects badly on Jerry H.'s design skills at Nissan; doesn't he know Americans use bigger cups? http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/wink.gif
* Pricing vs. Celica. see carsdirect.com where prices of the Celica are lower than mentioned by another guy.
Looking at the SE w/Performance Upgrade $16K vs. Celica GT w/Sunroof & Spoiler $18K (vs. GT-S w/Sunroof & Spoiler $21K, which has a much larger engine - but it would be about the same as a SE with turbo/mod upgrades).
* Vs. Used SC300/400. I'm looking at getting a faster, better car myself. My 93' is getting older, so I'm considering new and used cars to upgrade to. A 95/96 SC300 is in the same $15-20K range, and has the pluses I mentioned. Given the fact that some of these Lexuses are neurotically maintained, they ought to last years more. I'm not looking at the original sale price, just a good bargin for the $15-20K range.
I'm not analyzing the car as if it were a $30K car, just a fun&tossable go-cart $15-20K car and making this one outside suggestion in case anyone is thinking along the same lines as I am -- finding a good car with lots of features and good overall balance between price and features.
After all, the SC300 would save me the trouble of upgrading the SE with a turbo, better audio system, etc. and the reviews say it's one-with-the-road in steering feedback.
* People do race Sentras. The SE would be a certain upgrade with a turbo and other modifications, easily pumping out 200-250HP.
The niggles I mentioned against the Sentra was only to help buyers make sure they know about these bad points before buying one -- nothing worse than finding out you hate the car because of one of these downsides after you've bought it.
And, in all, they are mostly cosmetic points --
most people I'm sure will find the Sentra to be an excellent bargin (well, we do have to see what Honda will do with next year's new Civic; and Nissan has never seemed to get it right in the 'looks cool' styling dept., a big reason the Civic is selling so well).
For me, the two points going against it right now are: vague steering, vents that can't close 100%.
I wouldn't mind putting the Sentra up for consideration if the vauge steering thing isn't an issue -- after all, for $16K w/a few K of performance turbo/mods, it's one of the cheapest 200-250HP cars around (esp. insurance-wise). I'm not focusing on racing the baby, just making it fun and tossable like my underpowered 93' go-cart.
The only thing I'm still wondering is why was my test SE so vague in steering response? Was it underinfated tires? Was it becuase it didn't have the Performance Package with stiffer components?
Anybody with a SE w/P.Packg. wanna tell us if it feels nice and tight on the road? Does it have vague steering vs. a Civic? Can you hit three digits and not have to worry about the rear lifting off and bouncing all over?
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Test drove another today to see if the vague steering was due to underinflated tires.
Well, unless they're both underinflated, I'd say the SE still feels vague in steering - on the freeway, you have 1" either way you can turn the wheel w/o having the car drift in that direction.
You just don't feel anything about the road from the small adjustments -- almost like they isolated the steering feel too much.
The suspension is okay to a degree. Flat up to about 35-40mph for turns, but soft and squishy as you go faster. Maybe the Performance Pk. with stiffer shocks will eliminate some of that body roll. You can toss it at 40-50 around turns safely, but the most important feel is lacking -- you don't know where its limits are!! There's no sense that you are ##% away from losing grip and going off the road, just that there's still good grip at the speed you currently are going at.
It's not like my 93' where you can feel it push at the limits and telling you to back off.
Don' tknow if that'll improve with lower profile tires -- Sport Compact Car said the same with the default SE w/Performance Pk. (they tested 0-60 at 8.0 seconds in case anyone wants to know)
You may want to skip the performance pk. with stiffer struts and slightly wider tires, and do it yourself. They only toss on tiny 195's vs. at least a 205, and you can always replace the struts with the stiffer ones as well. That way, you won't have wasted money on the perf. pk. only to replace the wheels again with wider ones.
(what's up with that, too? What dummy would toss 195's on a Stage II setup? Guess car makers aren't in the habit of tossing on seriously fat tires if they're gonna bother at all.) --
Overall, it feels more like a standard, boring 'American' family car (eg. Taurus, whatever). It's lost the crisp build of the Sentra's past to me, and it vanishes among cars in the parking lot.
eg. I didn't look for it, but didn't notice a trunk light. It's there in my 93' XE, so what happened? (Same fate as the air vent 100% close dials?)
It's almost like any other car rental car, and nothing's there to set it apart from the rest.
Even sitting in the Sentra, it isn't all that amazing. The focus has better rear seat room and it's at least more distinctive inside and out.
--
The dials and switches are all grossly laid out -- front hood switch hidden out of view, trunk and gas switches not together, key hole placed lower than you'd expect and lower than older sentras on the steering column (where you can't see it either).
--
Definitely picking something else unless some tuner says otherwise with aftermarket parts (gotta have a turbo; like only the Japanese models have both a variable valve and a turbo engine option - what's up with that?) -- maybe the new 2001 Civic, maybe the Celica or Focus, whatever.
It's just not a Sentra-feeling Sentra anymore -- it's like they sucked the Sentra-ness out of it and left behind an anonymous 'American' car.
Something back there in the road feel just doesn't seem Sentra-y -- even the prior 95-99 model felt Sentra-y like the 91-94 models, but more stable with the use of the torsion beam rear -- so prior owners, expect it not to feel the same.
It's a great, cheap, quite, decently fast family cruiser and starter car however for anyone who doesn't need a car with a very communicative road feel and tossable performance that isn't vague -- a great pick for a decent freeway commuter (esp. the peppy 140HP SE) so you don't have to worry much about depreciating from $16K after 100,000 miles very much.
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Well, after comparing notes on between the two
cars, found they had pretty much the identical size, shape, engines, and most of the other parts.
The same 145HP engine has been around for two years already in the G20t.
The main exception was that the wheelbase was slightly longer in the G20t, giving it a bit more leg room inside - trunk space is the same 11 cu.ft.
So, with the fully decked out Sentra at $17,100ish and the G20t at $21,800ish, you have about a $4,700 difference -- and that buys you a cooler looking toosh, Bose stereo system, illuminated mirrors, lighted trunk, automatic temperature control system, vents that have 100% close on both sides, Homelink option, micron dust/pollen filter option, and the Infiniti badge (but you all already know they're Nissans in disguise, right?).
Or when you think about it, how to sell a $17K Sentra for $21K by throwing in a Bose stereo system, and not labeling it a Nissan. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/wink.gif
Or thinking about it again, the Sentra SE has really been through 3 generations in the same time most cars go through 2 -- SE-R <99 models, G20t 98-00 latest, and SE 2000.
Performance-wise, the 3000lbs G20t does a 8.8 in Car & Driver vs. the 2700lbs Sentra SE at 8.0 in Sport Compact Car.
(turbo on the G20t giving it 5psi boost yields about 200HP with 0-60 in ~6.7 sec, on an automatic even!..; and sniff, no SR20DET 210HP engine from Japan either in any US models...; turbo adds anywhere from $2000-5000)
Annoyingly, the Sentra brochure leaves out a lot of specs traditionally given in a car brochure - no height, leg/head/shoulder room, etc. You actually have to buy an issue of Car & Driver to find out these specs -- com'on Nissan!! -- that's being far too cheap! You can't save that much money cutting that out and trying to save paper that way....
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It's true that beyond a certain point, plus sizing
a tire too far will result in cool looks, but rather poor performance due to the increased mass and drag.
But plus sizing two from the default (ie. 205/50R15 on my 93') is still in the comfy range for any car, and won't cause much trouble if utmost performance (ie. drag strip car) isn't necessary or achievable (just how fast can a 93' XE go, eh?).
I feel that fatter tires (to a degree, usually plus one or plus two sizing) are better in general for any car.
benefits include: * more grip = faster turns possible in emergency maneuvers or just tossing it around a corner. * more grip = faster speed while maintaining contact in the rain. * better feel. smaller, thinner tires are simply mushier. stiffer sidewalls in low profile tires communicate road feel and where the car is going much better - you get a better feedback as to the limits the car has upcoming in turns and such. * shorter braking distances. due to greater grip and increased road contact. yielding shorter, safer stops w/o having to upgrade your brakes at all.
In fact, it's what I'd toss onto any car, esp. those given to kids by their parents.
One of the main problems is that kids don't have a good feel for how fast they can go and still maintain control -- ala that SUV that jumped a curb and mowed a row of peds. down a few weeks ago -- the kid was 16. Fatter tires prevent premature skidding and loss of control that usually results in spinouts and such, providing that extra grip at highway speeds to keep you from going into the walls during emergency maneuvers. Fatter tires result in shorter braking distances to help young drivers stay out of the rear end of the car in front of them. And they let kids safely go fast in rainy days when they shouldn't w/o hyrdroplng.
(parents read the above again and get fatter tires -- cheap way to extra safety margin and better car control in emergencies)
In any case, 205's fill the width better and look a bit cooler...