Altima's 240 hp?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I've noticed that the 2001 Pathfinder is listed at 240 hp with an auto trans and 250 with the 5 speed but the higher hp also has a lower torque. With the Altima/Maxima the hp ratings are also different but the torque is the same at 246. Do you guys think it's possible the Altima is really 260 hp but Nissan has understated it to keep the Maxima's image as high as possible for the 2002 model year? You know once the Maxima goes bigger and it is no longer direct competition for the Altima it also will be rated at 260 hp.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That is an interesting question. . .considering that the Altima V6 has a dual exhaust, and the Maxima, a single.

[Amazing2]

I noticed that too... could it be like the VW VS Audi's 1.8T (2002 model)? Give lower numbers as not to upset the flagship model?

[thearabian]

if we look at this situation, 4 possibilities

1) they understated the Altima engine which is unlikely because they wouldnt give 260 HP to a regular non-luxury family sedan

2) they overstated the Maxima which is more possible than the 1st one, but also unlikely due to the fact that the current max has 230 and an increase in 0.5L would yield more than 240, close to 260+

3) the same engine goes into both cars, with the same torque curve, with its max around 4000, 246lbft. but the difference with the maxima is that it has an extra 500RPM at the end of, giving it the ultimate edge (20 HP) right at the top of the HP curve

4) the maxima has a less restrictive overall system (intake, exhaust etc...)

a combination of the 3rd and 4th ones is probably the most likely situation...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My guess on what they are doing with the Maxima and Altima is that they probably tuned the 3.5 in the Altima to run on regular fuel as opposed to the Maxima which uses premium fuel. This would decrease the hp, and it makes sense because of the market they're selling the Altima in. With gas prices like they are you would want an engine that could run on regular just like all the other sedans in that market.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

All your responses make a lot of sense and, really, it is all speculation but what I find interesting is that the torque is the same in both engines. I went back to the NissanNews spec pages and both engines hp is rated at 5800 rpm. If Nissan did anything to lower the Altima's hp, such as regular fuel, wouldn't it also change the torque?

[This message has been edited by ohmitr (edited 06-28-2001).]

[culalty]

Strange, because GM is doing very similar with 300v6's

[thearabian]

the fuel issue has to do with compression ratio of the engine

i dont know if CR affects torque as well

but if both engines have max HP at 5800 (a good low number)

then perhaps one of my assumptions are wrong

gee i wish we had specs on the actual engines, closest approximation is the Pathfinder

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Simply put, Maxima's V6 is the VQ35 and the Altima will use that same engine. If the Maxima can get 260 hp from that VQ, I'm sure it will be like taking candy from a baby and child's play for anyone to mod their Altima from 240 to 260, possibly with minor adjustments to the engine. I mean, simply putting a Maxima CPU might even change the "thinking" process for you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Anyway... Since the Altima will be lighter than the Maxima, I don't think that those 20 more ponies in the Max will give her any edge over the Alty. I think I will be happy with "only" 240 horses under my Altima's hood...

Let's see if this new baby is up to our expectations to kick CamCord and Passat butt...

[thearabian]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RatonLaveur:
Anyway... Since the Altima will be lighter than the Maxima, I don't think that those 20 more ponies in the Max will give her any edge over the Alty. I think I will be happy with "only" 240 horses under my Altima's hood...

Let's see if this new baby is up to our expectations to kick CamCord and Passat butt...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the weight difference between a Maxima SE (man) and an Altima SE (man) will be 40 lbs
moreover, the Maxima will have a 6-speed
the Max's 20 extra horses will go a long way http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif

also, between Automatics, the difference is 30 lbs, so again, i think the maxima will be faster PROVIDED THEY MAKE THE AUTOMATIC MORE BRUTAL

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just reread the engine specs on both the Maxima and the Altima and both refer back to the Pathfinder and mention its a retuned version which we already know. What they didnt do is refer to each other about whats different, but I bet its something in the exhaust system or the transmison. If you look at the pathfinder auto the HP is the same as the Altima but the torque is at 265 instead of 246 on the atlima and maxima. It is very possible to increase HP and have the torque the same, how I dont know exactly but I know its possible. All it means is that the altima and the Maxima will have the same acceleration off the start since that is what torque is for but at highway speeds the maxima will have the advantage. Just because the Maxima is the flagship does not mean it needs to out power anything below it. For example Acura 3.2 TL and 3.5 RL, lexus GS 430 and LS 430, the TL is lower that the RL but out powers it, the GS is lower than the LS but out powers it. It depends on what class you are competing with i.e luxury or sprot sedan or just mid size. In certain classes power is not the important thing. Ride comfort and interior comfort are the most important in the RL and LS classes. Performance is most important in the TL,MAxima and GS class(not that the MAx and the TL compete against the GS but they are all sport sedans) Now the Maxima Doesnt need more HP its got plenty to compete in its class, But the Altima might be a tad overboard but thats ok, thats what nissan wanted, they just didnt want the Altima to be competitive with the CAMcords they want to destroy them big time. Now about the fuel requirement, for you guys that think higher octane improves performance and HP you are totally wrong, Like one of you said it depends on the compresion ratio. The higher the compresion, the more octane you need to prevent the engine from knocking and pinging. There are actually only 5% of all cars in North America that acually require premium fuel. Now does that mean that your engine wont benefit from using premium? ofcourse it will help, but it won't improve it or make it improve performance. The Maxima has never required premium and still doesnt niether does the Altima or the Pathfinder they only recommend it, which means if you use regular fuel it wont damage the engine but you have a greater chance of engine knock in the future. OCtane is only an anti-knock for high compression engines.

[Afty]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by athmene:
Now about the fuel requirement, for you guys that think higher octane improves performance and HP you are totally wrong, Like one of you said it depends on the compresion ratio. The higher the compresion, the more octane you need to prevent the engine from knocking and pinging. There are actually only 5% of all cars in North America that acually require premium fuel. Now does that mean that your engine wont benefit from using premium? ofcourse it will help, but it won't improve it or make it improve performance. The Maxima has never required premium and still doesnt niether does the Altima or the Pathfinder they only recommend it, which means if you use regular fuel it wont damage the engine but you have a greater chance of engine knock in the future. OCtane is only an anti-knock for high compression engines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The '95-'01 Maxima engine does require premium fuel. From the FAQ at **********************:

"Why should I use premium gas? Prices are so expensive these days.
For the 4th and 5th gen Maxima, it is important that you use a premium grade gas (i.e. 91 or greater octane). Using premium gas is not for increasing performance (not directly) or for giving you extra horsepower. What it does for you is to prevent detonation or pre-ignition. Detonation means that the fuel and air mixutre ignite at the wrong time due to the high compression and heat. This is VERY bad for the engine. The effets of detonation is cumulative, meaning the damage adds up. Higher octane gas will be more resistant to detonation and allow your engine to run as intended."

http://www.**********************/maxfaqs/sub_general/index.shtml#General_3

[This message has been edited by Afty (edited 06-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Afty (edited 06-30-2001).]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by athmene:
It is very possible to increase HP and have the torque the same, how I dont know exactly but I know its possible. All it means is that the altima and the Maxima will have the same acceleration off the start since that is what torque is for but at highway speeds the maxima will have the advantage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clearly, the torque curves must be different in the Altima & Maxima to have the same peak torque, but different peak hp. From what I'm reading, it appears that the Altima will have a jump off the line. It seems to me that the Altima is tuned to have more torque down low, but the hp suffered some.

How can this be done? Different compression ratio maybe. Yes, CR will affect torque. Cam profiles. ECU settings. Timing. Exhaust/intake/intake manifold designs. There are a lot of factors in tuning the torque/hp curves. Peak torque/hp only tells you so much, and it's telling me that the Altima has more torque down low, with a small sacrifice in peak hp.

Now about the fuel requirement, for you guys that think higher octane improves performance and HP you are totally wrong, Like one of you said it depends on the compresion ratio. The higher the compresion, the more octane you need to prevent the engine from knocking and pinging.

Not only compression ratio, but your octane requirement will also depend on your timing. It's common for Miata folks to bump the timing to improve mid-range power, but it also requires higher octane fuel to prevent kocking & pinging.

The Maxima has never required premium and still doesnt niether does the Altima or the Pathfinder they only recommend it, which means if you use regular fuel it wont damage the engine but you have a greater chance of engine knock in the future.

You can use regular fuel because the knock sensor will automatically retard the timing when it senses knocking/pinging long before you should ever hear it. That's why you can use regular fuel. I would highly recommend what Nissan recommends for fuel requirements.

As far as I remember, Nissan never recommended premium fuel for the Altima either ... they certainly didn't for our '94 Altima, and I'll have to ask my Dad on his new '01 Altima.

Dan

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok heres the deal, the reason the 2002 Maxima has the {rated} additional 20HP is because it incorparates a Variable intake Runner{VIR} and the altima does not. The VIR allows more air into the engine at high RPM's. The TQ and HP rating of the Altima and Maxima should be nearly identical up to approx. 5.2K RPM'S. If you look at a 4th gen Maxima and compare it to a 5th gen maxima the main difference in HP is contributed to the VIR{Plus a high flow exaust}.

The question now is will we be able to use the maxima intake on the new alty? I say it's possible but we wil likely need a ecu reprograming from JWT, or maybe{Probably not though} use a a 02 maxima ECM.

Now for "octane", a maxima will run on 87 Octane gas but not at it's full potentail, why you ask? Because the ECU retards it's timing which in turn lowers performance and gas mileage. So all in all you will save a little bit with 87 gas but the you will shell out the savings the next time you fill up because of the lower MPG associated with the lower octane.