2001QX4 vs Lexus RX300

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Why does the RX300 sell like it does?Would like to hear opinions on how the new 2wd drive version of the new 2001QX4 might make inroads into the RX300 sales.

[Max Ima]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NeilDavid:
Why does the RX300 sell like it does?Would like to hear opinions on how the new 2wd drive version of the new 2001QX4 might make inroads into the RX300 sales.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A couple of thoughts on why the RX is a success.
1) It looks like a truck, it rides like a car. (Some people want trucks, most don't.)
2) It's priced well.
3) It comes from a brand w/ a bullet-proof reputation.
4) The buying experience is low-key. The on-going service is completely hassle-free.
5) There's no other Toyota product like it. (You can bet if there were an RXCamry, you'd see a lot more of those than RX300's.)

For the QX4 to make in-roads, it would need to be a lot more than a re-badged Pathfinder.
As it stands now, I think a lot of people see both the QX4 and the Pathfinder as the same suv and wind up going with the Pathfinder because it's cheaper and it has a heritage.

Sad, but true.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Max Ima summed it up well, plus Lexus has really established themselves as a premium luxury brand, Infiniti aren't there yet.

[2HD]

I totally agree with Max Ima and Fairlady Z.
I also think styling is another major role in it being a hot selling product. It is a very unique looking suv. The only Lexus I like. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/smile.gif

Another question. I can understand the 2001 Pathfinder being the fastest suv in it's class but what about QX4 I thought the Mercedes-Benz M-Class ML55 was the fastest, it does have a 340 horsepower 5.5-liter AMG V-8. Or is this suv not compared to QX4?

[This message has been edited by 2HD (edited 03-21-2000).]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Max Ima:
A couple of thoughts on why the RX is a success.
1) It looks like a truck, it rides like a car. (Some people want trucks, most don't.)
2) It's priced well.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the RX300 looks like a truck. It looks more like a minivan hybrid SUV with the futuristic side profile. I think the QX4 looks more truckish.

As to the price, I think it actually costs more than the previous QX4 did.

I think the reason why the RX300 sells well is because of the Lexus reputation for luxury and reliability.

I think Lexus has managed to out market Infiniti...but Infiniti has made regained some market share with the new I30. The new Q45 should do as well I hope...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2HD:
I totally agree with Max Ima and Fairlady Z.
I also think styling is another major role in it being a hot selling product. It is a very unique looking suv. The only Lexus I like. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/smile.gif

Another question. I can understand the 2001 Pathfinder being the fastest suv in it's class but what about QX4 I thought the Mercedes-Benz M-Class ML55 was the fastest, it does have a 340 horsepower 5.5-liter AMG V-8. Or is this suv not compared to QX4?

[This message has been edited by 2HD (edited 03-21-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ML55 is indeed the world's fastest SUV...all for $50k+. Way beyond QX4 territory.

[2HD]

Hmmm...I guess so, still kind of confusing though. I really think Nissan needs to seperate Pathfinder and QX4 there way too close. The only significant thing that seperates them is the navigation system. They should have gave QX4 more hp and torque like they did with Maxima/I30.

[JonCarson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yak:
" I don't think the RX300 looks like a truck. It looks more like a minivan hybrid SUV with the futuristic side profile."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the RX300 looks like the love child of an LX470 and a Tercel.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I despise the RX300 and all it represents. It's a puddle-jumper at best, everyone and his brother (or should I say soccer-mom) has one, and it looks like a minivan. But that, apparently, is what the market is leaning towards, and that is why it succeeds. We all know that few luxury SUV owners will take their rigs offroading. And most of them would prefer a carlike ride. Lexus knows this, and so do other manufacturers. Take a look at some of the future/concept models coming down the pipe from Acura, Subaru, and others. They all are further evidence that the SUV now has more in common with station wagons and minivans than 4x4 trucks.

But I could care less. If it wants to survive, Infiniti will probably have to give in to the "minivan SUV" concept eventually, but for now, the QX4's performance, rugged foundations and appearance are what made me put my deposit down for a 2001 model.

[2HD]

I hope that "minivan SUV" isn't the Avantime.

[JonCarson]

I just looked at the latest QX4 info available on MSN carpoint. It looks good. Looks the way an SUV should...it's truck derived, and I can see that. This doesn't mean it has to be crude like a pickup, and it's not. A truck that I wouldn't mind owning and driving.

If I went for something less traditional, I may consider a Subaru Forester for it's car-like attributes. If I had crazy cash flow and wanted the best, I'd probably be all over that new BMW X5 (read: Sports Activity Vehicle).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

i have to say that the main reason the RX sells is the Lexus name. in my opinion, the RX looks like a hiked up minivan, just like the mercedes M class. the QX4 is more of a hardcore SUV that can do some serious offroading when needed. the RX to the best of my knowledge is car-based.

if infiniti can get an image as great as Lexus, the QX may sell a lot better

[2HD]

The problem is that most people who buy luxury SUV's don't want to go offroad with there vehicle or they aren't that kind of person.

Sorry to say but most people who buy luxury SUV's don't care for that off road feature.

That's also one of the reasons Xterra sells so well, because Nissan gave it the image that it is ment to get dirty.

[Path&Max]

As an owner of a 2000 pf le I am very impressed with the car like ride of this truck. I also like the fact that if I venture off road the truck is more then competent.

Having 85 cubic feet of cargo room with the back seats down is fantastic. I was able to put a new full size washer and dryer in the back on their sides and close the rear hatch!! Try that with a RX300.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Path&Max:
As an owner of a 2000 pf le I am very impressed with the car like ride of this truck. I also like the fact that if I venture off road the truck is more then competent.

Having 85 cubic feet of cargo room with the back seats down is fantastic. I was able to put a new full size washer and dryer in the back on their sides and close the rear hatch!! Try that with a RX300.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was also impressed with the ride of the QX4 when I rented one from Enterprise last weekend. It had an excellent ride...I think C&D when they first reviewed it said it had the best ride of any compact SUV...of course that was before the RX300 came out. I still think the QX4 has a very smooth ride

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Another reason I think the QX4 aren't selling as well as the RX300 is lack of advertising. I must seen a billion of those "unlike ordinary SUVS, the RX300 rides like a car...." and all that BS http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif

Then again Nissan don't have Toyota like money to spend on commercials. So the QX4 really has to be priced competitive and stand out in the off road ability.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairlady Z:
Another reason I think the QX4 aren't selling as well as the RX300 is lack of advertising. I must seen a billion of those "unlike ordinary SUVS, the RX300 rides like a car...." and all that BS http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif

Then again Nissan don't have Toyota like money to spend on commercials. So the QX4 really has to be priced competitive and stand out in the off road ability.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beleive it's the way they run their business. The Pathfinder is same car as the QX4, why sholud anyone pay an extra 4- 5k. in buying a QX4. THe dealership experince is crap, if the car is built right you should never see the deealer, nor worryy about the warrenty, so there goes the major selling point of the Infiniti. What you end up with is bigger wheels, extra wood and plastic and insulation for the extra cash. if you want to pay that much for name plate then buy a Mercedes or the new BMW X5 6 cylinder, to get the "prestige" plate.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

toyota does the same thing with the Landcruiser and Lexus LX470.. Nissan's not the only one http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/smile.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

But the Pathfinder is nowhere near the legendary status LandCruiser has http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/smile.gif

I doesn't offer a V8 either.

[TitaniusMaximus]

Yes... but you can get a Land Cruiser for around $47k... but if you want a LX470 you gotta pay over $56k... for the same truck with extra insulation??? That's ridiculous...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Tae:
Yes... but you can get a Land Cruiser for around $47k... but if you want a LX470 you gotta pay over $56k... for the same truck with extra insulation??? That's ridiculous...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would not buy the Lx over the land cruiser either. But Toyota does it in a market segment that has the least amount of competition, they are merely filling a product gap with the Lx while developing a brand new truck to fill that need. Nissan in the mean time tries to do the same thing in the most competitive car segment in the car market. There are probably more vehicles to choose from in the mid size SUV market than any other car market segment. The Lexus RX300 does not get any internal competiton from Toyota. Nissan just does not seem to have solid plan, and they don't have a full size SUV either. But, let me say I like to buy the QX4, but it's very hard to justify the extra money for the same truck as the PF. Especially in that 40k. price range you have competition from Land Rover, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Jeep, and soon porsche. Sure the infiniti is the best deal of the bunch, but then the PF cut it's own legs out from underneath it, by being the same SUV for 4k less, and for name plate sake you can buy a Mercedes, or a BMW in the 40k. range. I think the infinti name plate is worth 2 to 2.5k. more than the PF, but not 4-5k more.

Another thing in chicago there is a dealer that sells both infiniti and Nissan under the same roof, if you want to have fun go there and give that argument and watch them turn blue trying to justify the higher price of the QX4, while trying to not push down the PF capabilities and luxary. It's about as entertaining as any high budget hollywood movie.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You have a good point there. But most companies does badge engineering these days, Lincon Navigator=Ford Expedition with leather and fake wood, and Audi TT=VW Golf-Bettle with an aluminum interior.

Nissan just have to make the Infiniti ones look different than the Nissan ones http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Fairlady Z (edited 03-26-2000).]

[TitaniusMaximus]

Lexus and Toyota does have two of the same vehicles in their respective markets... Toyota 4Runner is $23k - $40k, Lexus RX300 is $33k - $40k... and the full size SUV is just bit competitive as the midsize SUV market, you have your Cadillac Escalade, GMC Yukon Denali and Yukon XL and Yukon, Chevy Suburban and Tahoe, Isuzu Trooper, Acura SLX, Mitsu Montero, Ford Expedition and Excursion, Lincoln Navigator, Toyota Land Cruiser and Sequoia, Lexus LX470... do I need to go on??? So don't be singling out Nissan as an escape goat... and like I said... it seems like you have problems more with your local dealership than anything else... find another dealership...
Oh, another thing... I would personally get a Path, just because it costs less and there are more Nissan dealerships across North America than there are Infiniti, just in case I need service outside of my local area... but my local Infiniti dealership treated me like a king, have offices there so I can do work at the dealership, complementary expresso bar, car wash, and excellent service overall... so check around for different dealerships... not every dealerships are bad... just yours! haha http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif

[TitaniusMaximus]

Oh and on the price difference... the Path LE 4X4 starts around $33k... without anymore options... The QX4 costs around $35k with AWD... without any options... so there is only a $2000 difference... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif and I belive if you check the Consumer Reports, the most reliable SUV on the market is... Infiniti QX4... so it's your choice, but do your research before you buy... you are acting on your emotions, man...

[This message has been edited by Doctor Tae (edited 03-26-2000).]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Tae:
Oh and on the price difference... the Path LE 4X4 starts around $33k... without anymore options... The QX4 costs around $35k with AWD... without any options... so there is only a $2000 difference... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif and I belive if you check the Consumer Reports, the most reliable SUV on the market is... Infiniti QX4... so it's your choice, but do your research before you buy... you are acting on your emotions, man...

[This message has been edited by Doctor Tae (edited 03-26-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The exact price for th PF loaded is $34,067
, base is 31,299 ( invoice is 28,455)leather is 1,999, limited slip is $240 delivery is 520. The QX4 loaded is around 38,225 with the sport, premium, and the sunroof package and delivery. That is about 4k. I have already priced out both at the dealer. MAN!! no emotion just research. By the way the PF comes with a 180 watt Bose stereo and the Infiniti 150 Watt Bose stereo, go figure. The Pathfinder also comes with the sunroof as standard( but, no leather Stnd..

[This message has been edited by racezx9 (edited 03-26-2000).]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

A lot has been said about the QX4 being a basically a Pathfinder that costs $4k+ more, but not much has been said about the differences between them. In my mind, there are three major step-ups in the Q:

- Automatic all-mode 4WD
- A real sense of luxury
- 4-yr/60k basic, 6-yr/70k drivetrain warranties

Other minor factors include:
- More refined appearance/cosmetics
- Available navigation system
- Free loaner car when the car is being serviced

Is this worth $4k? It's up to you. If you're serious about offroading, probably not. If it's your daily commuter and you enjoy the sense of luxury but you do some occasional dancing in the dirt, maybe it is.

[TitaniusMaximus]

Like I said... if you are getting those kinds of informations from your local dealership, I would shop elsewhere... the Path LE 4X4 starts at $31,299 then you gotta add $1,999 for leather (which the QX4 comes standard)... now the QX4 AWD starts at $35,550, so base price is about $4,000 difference, but leather makes it only $2,200... and with QX4 you can get 17" wheel pkg, the navigation system, and the SAME 150 watt BOSE stereo that you can get on the Pathfinder... Nissan-Bose stereos only come in 150 watt and the 200 watt variety... sorry if your local dealership fed you misinformation... like I said, do your research... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

All very good points from Doctor Tae...when you add in various "extras" to upgrade the Pathy *almost* to the level of the QX4, the price difference isn't as great as one would think. (And I must reiterate -- even with leather and wood, the PF does not feel as nice and plush as the Q.) And -- this is a subjective, casual observation here -- I've had far better experiences with my local Infiniti dealers than the Nissan dealers. YMMV.

By the way, I just took delivery of my 2001 QX4 last Friday and put 1000 miles on it over the weekend on a trip from San Francisco to LA and back. I LOVE THIS RIG!!!! Beautiful, inside and out. My only wish (as with all Pathy/QX4s) is that it would be a tad bit wider and longer. 3 adults barely fit in the rear seats, and the cargo area doesn't seem that much bigger than my Subaru Forester. And although the center console (non-navigation version, mind you) is nice, it could be nicer. I really wish they would have continued the woodgrain/brushed aluminum theme (that is implemented in the shifter) in the center console. But these are minor quibbles. This is my first luxury car as well as my first SUV (I don't count the Forester, as much as I love it), and I'm in driving heaven!



[This message has been edited by Quasi (edited 03-29-2000).]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Tae:
Like I said... if you are getting those kinds of informations from your local dealership, I would shop elsewhere... the Path LE 4X4 starts at $31,299 then you gotta add $1,999 for leather (which the QX4 comes standard)... now the QX4 AWD starts at $35,550, so base price is about $4,000 difference, but leather makes it only $2,200... and with QX4 you can get 17" wheel pkg, the navigation system, and the SAME 150 watt BOSE stereo that you can get on the Pathfinder... Nissan-Bose stereos only come in 150 watt and the 200 watt variety... sorry if your local dealership fed you misinformation... like I said, do your research... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goto the Nissan pathfinder Brochure the very back page with all the features and look at the interior column and see 9 lines down, and it will list the Bose stereo as 180 Watts. Gotta do your research. If you look at the PF loaded and the QX4 loaded it is still about 4200 difference( leather, sunroof, limited slip, heated seats). I agree the QX4 is more refined, and a little more quiet, and looks better. I in fact test drove both back to back 2 days ago. But, they are still mechanically identical, even the salesman conceded to that point. But are the extras worth the 4k. in price difference. By the way the dealership initally said they would only sell the car at list, but decided to drop the price after i told them I'm also going next door to check out the BMW X5. So there is room for bargaining despite what any dealer tells you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Tae:
Like I said... if you are getting those kinds of informations from your local dealership, I would shop elsewhere... the Path LE 4X4 starts at $31,299 then you gotta add $1,999 for leather (which the QX4 comes standard)... now the QX4 AWD starts at $35,550, so base price is about $4,000 difference, but leather makes it only $2,200... and with QX4 you can get 17" wheel pkg, the navigation system, and the SAME 150 watt BOSE stereo that you can get on the Pathfinder... Nissan-Bose stereos only come in 150 watt and the 200 watt variety... sorry if your local dealership fed you misinformation... like I said, do your research... http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


One more point, in the QX4 you get leather standard, but not the sunroof. In the pathfinder LE you get sunroof standard, but not the leather. so the price differnece is still greater that the 2,200 you mentioned between the base QX4 and the pathfinder upgraded.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Tae:
The Nissan Brochure must have a mistake, check it out on the price sticker... and if you are comparing the similarly equipped vehicles, the price difference is only $2,200... Now if you get a fully loaded QX4, you would get the 17" wheels and tires, Navigation system, Infiniti communicator, and others that you just cannot get on the Path... and Nissan is having a special promo on the sunroofs on the LEs... so if you want your sunroof, it's free now but later it won't be free... so like I said the price difference between the two SIMILARLY priced vehicles is only $2,200... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lOOK IN THE NISSAN BROCHURE, THE SUNROOF IS A SE OPTION ONLY!! BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD ON THE LE!! AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THE PRICE STICKER YOU LOOKED AT ISN'T WRONG AND NOT THE BROCHURE. THE 17 INCH WHEELS AND THE EXTRA WOOD AND PLASTICK IS WHAT YOU SHOULD GET EXTRA FOR $4500 BUCKS( THAT'S ALOT OF PLASTICK)!!

[TitaniusMaximus]

The Nissan Brochure must have a mistake, check it out on the price sticker... and if you are comparing the similarly equipped vehicles, the price difference is only $2,200... Now if you get a fully loaded QX4, you would get the 17" wheels and tires, Navigation system, Infiniti communicator, and others that you just cannot get on the Path... and Nissan is having a special promo on the sunroofs on the LEs... so if you want your sunroof, it's free now but later it won't be free... so like I said the price difference between the two SIMILARLY priced vehicles is only $2,200...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I drove a '01 QX4 today and was very impressed. It is a comfortable car with
good interior room and good handling. I thought the new 240HP engine is adequate, but definitely not a tire-screacher (I would like some more low-RPM torque).

Previously, I have test driven a Mercedes ML320, BMW X5 and Lexus RX300. In terms of handling and features, I prefer the ML320; however, the reliabity record of the Mercedes M series is very poor which causes me great concern.

The QX4 actually reminded me a lot of the BMW X5 -- both have very luxurious
interiors and similar road feel, but the QX4 is considerably less expensive than the X5.

I did not like the Lexus RX300 at all. It had practically no road feedback and the handling was poor (my wife described its handling as "like being in a fog"), it was cramped inside, and I generally felt like I was driving a little station wagon rather than a SUV. I am amazed that Lexus has sold so many RX300s.

The QX4 is virtually the same price as a ML320 and slightly more than a RX300 (but you get MUCH more than a RX300). It is considerably less expensive than an X5, but they only have the V8 X5's available right now.

The negative side of the QX4 is that it is less technically advanced than the Mercedes ML320 or the BMW X5. Both the ML320 and X5 have 5-speed transmissions with adaptive shifting that adjusts automatically to your driving style; traction control that uses the ABS system to brake slipping wheels; electronic stability control that senses over- or under-steering with a yaw-rate sensor and uses differential braking to correct; and independent rear suspension. Both the ML320 and X5 allow you to nudge the shift lever to force the transmission to down- or up-shift (the Mercedes system is the best). The ML320 and X5 also monitor driving conditions and calculate oil change intervals. The minimum recommended oil change interval on a ML320 is 10,000 miles.

The salesman could not do a good job of describing how the "Automatic" 4WD feature works, and the Infinity web page didn't provide much information. So I don't know how it decides to engage 4WD, nor do I know if there is any system other than traditional limited-slip differential to distribute power if some wheels start slipping.

Phil Sherrod

[TitaniusMaximus]

Sorry that you have ran into a dumbass salesperson... but you gotta expect that once in awhile... but with the M-class and the X5 having those extra junky gadgets that doesn't work are bound to give you problems, for instance, the traction control that uses ABS... do you think that it's healthy for the drivetrain to have you stepping on the gas and the computer braking at the same time? I have driven cars with this setup and it does not work very good, it made more noise than anything else...

As far as the 4WD, and auto setup on the QX4 goes... you would normally use the 2WD or the Auto setting, the Auto setting keeps the QX4 on RWD mode until it senses a slippage and transfers the torque to the front wheels, just like the Skyline GT-R... and you would use the 4WD low for off roading... and there is not much use for 4WD low...

[TitaniusMaximus]

Oh, yes... the Nissan/Infiniti traction control systems utilize the fuel cut off method... instead of putting extra stress on the drivetrain and the braking system, the computer chokes the fuel supply to slow down your roll... therefore reducing your slippage... much more effective...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Could you please elaborate about the operation of the AWD system. In "Auto" mode it directs power to the rear wheels, but if it detects slippage it engages the front wheels. How does it detect slippage? If you set it manually to 4WD mode, is there a differential between the front and rear axles so that you can use it on dry pavement?

[noelsaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sherrod:
Could you please elaborate about the operation of the AWD system. In "Auto" mode it directs power to the rear wheels, but if it detects slippage it engages the front wheels. How does it detect slippage? If you set it manually to 4WD mode, is there a differential between the front and rear axles so that you can use it on dry pavement?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The QX4 does lack a 5 spd automatic transmission but the rest of the car especially the new engine and the unit body construction is top notch.

Here is what Infiniti says about the All-Mode system...

"All 4-wheel drive QX4s come equipped with an advanced All-Mode 4WD system derived from the advanced ATTESSA E-TS all-wheel drive system used in the high-performance Nissan Skyline GT-R sports coupe (rather than the truck-based 4WD systems found in most luxury SUVs).

The heart of the All-Mode 4WD mechanical system is a wet multi-plate clutch in the center differential. Managed by an advanced computerized electronic control unit, the multi-plate clutch precisely and instantly distributes the right amount of torque (as conditions warrant) to the front and rear axles.

The unit gathers information from front and rear driveshaft sensors (to determine wheel slippage), a throttle position sensor, an engine rpm sensor, a transfer unit lever selector and the Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) control unit. Up to 50 percent of available torque (infinitely adjustable) can be sent to the front wheels on demand - resulting in optimal traction with improved fuel economy and enhanced cornering capability."

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sherrod:
I drove a '01 QX4 today and was very impressed. It is a comfortable car with
good interior room and good handling. I thought the new 240HP engine is adequate, but definitely not a tire-screacher (I would like some more low-RPM torque).

Previously, I have test driven a Mercedes ML320, BMW X5 and Lexus RX300. In terms of handling and features, I prefer the ML320; however, the reliabity record of the Mercedes M series is very poor which causes me great concern.

The QX4 actually reminded me a lot of the BMW X5 -- both have very luxurious
interiors and similar road feel, but the QX4 is considerably less expensive than the X5.

I did not like the Lexus RX300 at all. It had practically no road feedback and the handling was poor (my wife described its handling as "like being in a fog"), it was cramped inside, and I generally felt like I was driving a little station wagon rather than a SUV. I am amazed that Lexus has sold so many RX300s.

The QX4 is virtually the same price as a ML320 and slightly more than a RX300 (but you get MUCH more than a RX300). It is considerably less expensive than an X5, but they only have the V8 X5's available right now.

The negative side of the QX4 is that it is less technically advanced than the Mercedes ML320 or the BMW X5. Both the ML320 and X5 have 5-speed transmissions with adaptive shifting that adjusts automatically to your driving style; traction control that uses the ABS system to brake slipping wheels; electronic stability control that senses over- or under-steering with a yaw-rate sensor and uses differential braking to correct; and independent rear suspension. Both the ML320 and X5 allow you to nudge the shift lever to force the transmission to down- or up-shift (the Mercedes system is the best). The ML320 and X5 also monitor driving conditions and calculate oil change intervals. The minimum recommended oil change interval on a ML320 is 10,000 miles.

The salesman could not do a good job of describing how the "Automatic" 4WD feature works, and the Infinity web page didn't provide much information. So I don't know how it decides to engage 4WD, nor do I know if there is any system other than traditional limited-slip differential to distribute power if some wheels start slipping.

Phil Sherrod<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have went to several dealers here in the chicagoland area that sold the mercedes and infinti side by side. In talking to several salesman, they have expreass to me that they can sell both the ML320 and the QX4, but they personally preferred the QX4, mainly because the QX4 has a better built quality and is more trouble free than the Mercedes.

[Slack00]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quasi:
I despise the RX300 and all it represents. It's a puddle-jumper at best, everyone and his brother (or should I say soccer-mom) has one, and it looks like a minivan. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Puddle jumper?...I dunno about that.... actually the off road prowress of the RX300 is pretty respectible...its small and light....The latest issue of SCC shows a guy who rallyd on to a second place finish (the guy who beat him came from Japan and was driving his Mitsu Lancer EVO VI.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

i doubt the RX300 can offroad as seriously as say a Frontier 4x4 or a Tacoma 4x4. dirt roads are probably the roughest terrain the lexus can handle. someone said car frames bend easily, so i would imagine that you really would not want to seriously offroad in that car-based vehicle

[JonCarson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nsuguy:
i doubt the RX300 can offroad as seriously as say a Frontier 4x4 or a Tacoma 4x4. dirt roads are probably the roughest terrain the lexus can handle. someone said car frames bend easily, so i would imagine that you really would not want to seriously offroad in that car-based vehicle<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I don't think you'd want to take the RX300 into Jeep territory and do boulder climbs, but it'll probably do pretty well at rally-style off roading. It doesn't take a rock solid frame to do that.

It all comes down to what type of off roading you want to do.

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rally style offroading is basically driving on dirt roads really fast. i almost don't consider it offroading. you almost don't need 4 wheel drive for that, but i'm sure it helps. i've done light offroading in my 4x2 truck just fine--all you need is a little ground clearance.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I'd rather drive a Qx4 anyday over the Lexus (4wd Camary Hybrid). The Infiniti is far more luxurious on the inside and have for more useful features. I worked at an Infiniti dealership and a Lexus dealer before that so I think I know what I'm talking about. The Rx300 is based on a Camary of all things, is that something you really want to do some hard core off roading with?? I dont think so. Alas..the mass majority will never use their SUV's off road and Toyota knows that, in fact the only reason the Camary hybrid outsells it's infiniti rival is because of the Lexus name plate. They dont care the thing was styled by the same guy who put put wings on your washing machine, and they dont care is has far less the carrying capacity and comfort of the Infiniti it's a lexus!! Well Booo, leave that piece of AWD monstrosity for the image concious no brainers and leave the real trucks for us with grey acutal matter. I just think if the Qx4 was first introduced back in 1997 as it is now they'd have a winner! Nissan's on the come back from conservative design I just hope they keep it a real truck ute when the time comes for the Qx4's replacement.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HammerMan:
I'd rather drive a Qx4 anyday over the Lexus (4wd Camary Hybrid). The Infiniti is far more luxurious on the inside and have for more useful features. I worked at an Infiniti dealership and a Lexus dealer before that so I think I know what I'm talking about. The Rx300 is based on a Camary of all things, is that something you really want to do some hard core off roading with?? I dont think so. Alas..the mass majority will never use their SUV's off road and Toyota knows that, in fact the only reason the Camary hybrid outsells it's infiniti rival is because of the Lexus name plate. They dont care the thing was styled by the same guy who put put wings on your washing machine, and they dont care is has far less the carrying capacity and comfort of the Infiniti it's a lexus!! Well Booo, leave that piece of AWD monstrosity for the image concious no brainers and leave the real trucks for us with grey acutal matter. I just think if the Qx4 was first introduced back in 1997 as it is now they'd have a winner! Nissan's on the come back from conservative design I just hope they keep it a real truck ute when the time comes for the Qx4's replacement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everyone forgets that the SUV craze was really created by Range Rover. The idea if a luxary vehicle that can do anyhing and go antwhere. I think the current puddle jumping 4wd car-trucks is a reaction to the people who wish they dare to go off raod but are too afraid and or just plain like to fantasize about exotic places. These people don't want to give up their cars( they drove minivans, and staion wagons) so they buy these dressed up cars with 4WD, which Jeep/ Eagle did years ago. I just hope that Nissan stay true to the heritage of the pathfinder ( as toyota have done with the landcruiser). Also if you look at rallying they have rear wheel drive and front wheel drive based passenger car racing in it( they have a Huyndai Tiburon doing pretty well, but I wouldn'y want to take one off roading).

[jochi]

I like the look of the QX4 very much, it looks way more substantial than the RX300. The RX300 looks like a minivan on steroids, while the QX4 has a brawnier look. I don't know why the cargo area is puny when the seats are up in the QX4 (less than 40 cubic feet), but so large when the seats are down! (85 cubic feet). This is made even more surprising when sitting in the back of a QX4, with POOR legroom, and NO toe room (31.8" to be exact, in other words, a full 5" away from respectability). The back seat of the RX300 is much more comfortable. Nothing can be done about this problem with the current platform, hopefully the redesigned QX4 will be better with space efficiency, then it will be a fair fight. The RX300 is selling so well because it has what the market wants, not what the market fantisizes about in their dreams. The QX4 is the opposite, and must sacrifice interior comfort to accomplish it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hmmmm, very true, but then again, look at whats coming from BMW with the X5 and Acura with it's SUV Hybrid Minivan interpritation. (built on the Odysee platform) They both are very car like mechanically, but feature brawnier exteriors to compete better with their competion. The Rx300 will stick around a while longer but will be replaced with something a little more truck like on the outside while retaining it's car like features on the inside. Something that you can actually do some 4 wheeling with, much like the X5 and Current Mercedes ML. Does Nissan really need to invest into this marketing Niche, maybe but right now they dont have the money, they need to revamp their current line up and hopefully make enough money to introduce such an offering in the future.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HammerMan:
Hmmmm, very true, but then again, look at whats coming from BMW with the X5 and Acura with it's SUV Hybrid Minivan interpritation. (built on the Odysee platform) They both are very car like mechanically, but feature brawnier exteriors to compete better with their competion. The Rx300 will stick around a while longer but will be replaced with something a little more truck like on the outside while retaining it's car like features on the inside. Something that you can actually do some 4 wheeling with, much like the X5 and Current Mercedes ML. Does Nissan really need to invest into this marketing Niche, maybe but right now they dont have the money, they need to revamp their current line up and hopefully make enough money to introduce such an offering in the future. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had a issue with the rear seating space of the QX4. Yes, the Rx300 has bigger back seat, but don't forget that the back seat of the QX4 recline, and in the recline postiotion it' give th erear passenger more than adaquate space. AS for 4 wheeling the X5 is not a offroad at all and the Mercedes has just a little more offraod capability than the RX300 and the X5. When it comes to rear cargo space the QX4 has way more that the X5 about the same as the merceds and the RX300. I know I test drove all 4, sat in all 4 front and rear seats, and put my dog in the rear cargo space of all 4. I ended up selecting the QX4. PLus it's the best looking of the 4, the BMW casme close, but the other 2 is just butt ugly.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree with you totally, I'd much rather drive the real thing than be caught in one of the trendy pretenders. But I think the SUV hybrid is here to stay. It may never capture the hearts of the true off road enthusiast, but it is here for the long haul appealing to those who care not to adventure too far out into the woods. But on the weekends they are still there, just not crossing every stream we can in our Qx4s. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum//images/icons/grin.gif