It's all in the advertising

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I hate to say this, but Infiniti needs to change ad agencies again. I like the Nissan Pathfinder ad with the polo game on the cliff, but the Infiniti ads just leave something to be desired. The G20 ads: "born in Japan, educated in europe" just didn't fit in with a luxury car company. As for the print ads, they are all the same. They all have a silver car on one page, and show the black interior on another. IT IS TIME FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. If they don't start making better commercials or have better print ads, no one other than Infiniti owners are going to even know about the new Q. The only Q commercial I ever really liked had the '97 model rotating around to that jazz song "I get a fever" or something like that.

Lexus has some of the best commercials out there, and I don't even care for their products. The best is the GS400 commercial when the guy gets home in the morning after driving all night. He puts on lipstick, messes up his hair, and untucks his shirt. His wife says to him, "nice try, you've been out driving again..." They manage to put a little humor in there ads and it works very well for them.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Once again, I think you're wrong, no amount of attention grabbing advertising will be enough sell bad products or products of bad product planning. Remember those little Ceasar's commercials a few years back?? Great commercials!!! They were hilarious, but their pizza was terrible. Consequently Little Ceasars went out of business. Nissan's problem in my opinion is much the same. They've had some really good attention grabbing commercials before, but nothing really special in the show room compared to their competition who at the time had some (and continue to have some) commercials that are really lame. But guess what?? They still out sold Nissan 2 to 1!! Why?? because their product was simply that much better!! It's about time some of you around here took off the Nissan/Infiniti goggles, and looked, REALLY REALLY LOOKED without any Nissan bias at all at the competition. Compared to the Nissans/Infinitis, the competition is simply that much better. They blow them away!!! Hopefully, HOPEFULLY thats all about to change, but I doubt it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Silly question, but if you think Nissan/Infiniti is so sub-par compared to the competition, why do you even bother posting in this forum? Also, your degree in business/marketing is from where? If advertising did not help to move product, no one (companies) would bother to do it. I am also curious as to why you feel that the new Q is a poor product with poor planning. One last thing, before you tell me that I need to take of the goggles, when was the last time you went shopping for a luxury car?

[Infiniti]

Ads are a MAJOR part in marketing. Without ads, what is marketing? Infiniti did in fact get a new ad agency like a couple of months ago. I don't know if the commercials out now are a result of the new company but they did get a new one.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dont get me wrong, I love Nissans, but I dont like their current line up of cars, or any of the ones I see coming. That is why I am so adamant about voicing such strong opinions. Take some time to talk to some non-Infiniti/Nissan loyalists and listen to what they say. Most of their complaints center around appearance of Nissan vehicles compared to the competition, or their design. Most of them say they look quirky, weird, but mostly UGLY. Many of them like the Nissan commercials, but wouldnt buy one because they dont like their design! That is what I meant. Besides, when was the last time you went non-Infiniti car buying with a real intent on buying?? Come on, dont tell me your views arent in the least bit biased. Take some time to talk to non-Infiniti loyalists, and LISTEN to what they say. Most of them would "rather drive a Lexus." Why I ask you?? I'll give you a hint, It's NOT because of advertising!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, for starters, I used to sell Acura's several years ago(back in the days of the Legend). I have never been what people would call a die-hard Nissan fan. Before I purchased my J, I shopped several other makes before deciding on Infiniti. Benz, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Acura, Lexus and Saab. Every make has strong and weak points, but it is up to the consumer to decide. As for Lexus, I was treated very poorly by the dealer, and the car(ES300) did not impress me. There are many factors in why people buy a particular car. Dealership experience plays big in that equation as well. I would never stick up for Infiniti if I had not been treated so well during the last 4(almost) years. The whole purpose of this topic was ADVERTISING. If you a have product you want to sell, you need to make the general public aware of the fact. Look at companies like BASF, they don't even have a product that the general public purchased. Yet, they still advertise what they do. Another example would be the Ford F-Series, it is the best selling vehicle in the country. Why should they bother to advertise it then? They want people to know about it, and keep it number one. It is all about exposure. It is difficult to get people in the showroom if they do not know what you have to offer.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

As for the G20 commercials, they didnt succeed because the actual car didnt make good on their (the advertisments) promise!! They created a lot of hype about the new car, but when people took them for a test drive, they came back dissapointed. Where was the sportingness that these TV ads promised?? Nowhere. Aside from the good handling and tasteful interiors, the G20s were a real letdown. (And in my opinion one of Nissan's greatest blunders) Most of them went on to buy from Acura, or sometimes BMW viewing the G20 as under powered and over priced.

On another note: That helped create the now old genre of the G20 being nothing more than an "over priced Sentra." But lets look at it without our Infiniti glasses shall we? To most people (taking off the Infiniti goggles now) it would make perfect sense. They had/have no idea the G20 is actually based on the European Primera. Most people dont spend all their time and energy reading about cars, so why should they know?? All they saw in the commercial was a zippy fun to drive car with a little pep. Come game day when they actually visited a show room they discovered it had absolutely NO pep. Very dissapointing. Now do you get my drift?? With an experience like that, who wouldnt be left with that impression?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

adding on to what I just said, if you're going to make your cars zippy, sporty, fun to drive in your commercials, you sure as hell better make them that way in real life! If your cars are simply dull and boring, you better change the way you design cars, before you advertise them as something different. Or no amount of advertising is going to save your butt. That is why so many people have turned away from the G20.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Please allow me to make it even clearer. Advertising creates an image. If you or your product DO NOT hold up to that image, YOU ARE SCREWED!!! You screw yourself, that is why Nissan's (particularly Infiniti's) advertisements have not been very successful as far moving product is concerned. They just did not make good on their promises. Even when they had good advertising they didnt have the product there to do those ads any justice.

-1st gen. I30, touted as the latest and greatest entry level luxury car. It was a dressed up Maxima!! They did a very poor job disguising it, even Lexus in my opinion did a better job at disguising the Camry. I dont know a single person out there who doesnt bring up those two facts when discussing Infiniti products. They just didnt do a very good job.

-G20, Touted as a sporty entry level car with lots of zip!! It has no zip!!! It had plenty of the luxury appointments inside, but when being advertised as something that offers PERFORMANCE, that hardly matters!

Those two sedans are Infiniti's bread and butter cars. And people wonder why Infiniti is/was doing so bad...

[Oscuro]

Do you really think the design of the current I30 is bad? I mean, if you can suspend your knowledge about the relationship between the I30 and Maxima for a moment, do you still think the I30 is a styling failure?

I believe that the Infiniti marketing division of Nissan has winners on its hands with the new I30 and forthcoming Q45. And the QX4 isn't bad, either. The only thing making me "wait" on buying an I30t is the rumored bhp boost in the 2002 model next August. As I've said many times before, if Nissan/Infiniti can up the hp in the I30 (or lighten the car, or whatever it takes to give it a little more get-up-and-go) and keep the same design, I'd buy two as soon as they hit the lot. (My fiancee is really excited about these cars now, as well, which is where the second one would come in...)

The G20: I test drove one about six months ago, and I have to say that I was slightly disappointed. After seeing the commercial, and noticing the spoiler/ground-effects on the t version, I just expected a lot more. Perhaps there is only so much "umph" you can give to a $22k car... BMW tried it a few years ago with the 318ti and failed miserably. But I expected a little bit more from a Nissan.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HammerMan:
As for the G20 commercials, they didnt succeed because the actual car didnt make good on their (the advertisments) promise!! They created a lot of hype about the new car, but when people took them for a test drive, they came back dissapointed. Where was the sportingness that these TV ads promised?? Nowhere. Aside from the good handling and tasteful interiors, the G20s were a real letdown. (And in my opinion one of Nissan's greatest blunders) Most of them went on to buy from Acura, or sometimes BMW viewing the G20 as under powered and over priced. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. In fact, I wasn't interested at all in the G20 until I saw the commercials in 1999. I was thinking it was totally revamped, with a new engine, etc. It was only until I found out that the same SR20DE was used, that I removed the G20 off my list.

This is from the Edmunds review of the G20:

"O.K., Infiniti, listen up. This is our list of demands for a sport sedan of the G20's price: Drop in the powertrain from the Maxima SE. That's all. Cram a 3.0-liter engine over the front wheels, get us from zero to 60 in six and a half seconds, and we'll be happy. Keep everything else the same, including the price, and you'll have a car that could boast one more attribute: excitement. We can hear the commercials now: "Born in Japan. Educated in Europe. Born again in America." The sad truth is that there's a reason the G20 failed here before, and the marketing department was not to blame."

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think in order to distinguish the I30 from the Maxima, Nissan must do so with the major parts of the car, like the engine and interior. If the I30 and Max shared suspensions, body panels, and underlying components, it would still be possible to make them look like two different cars. For example, the Toyota Camry and ES300 actually share less than 25% of their components. But why is the ES300 often referred to as a rebadged Camry? Because the interior, engine, and transmission - things that the average customer notices are the things that the Camry and ES share. Most of the time, when the I30 and ES are reviewed, their cousins are often referred to as well, but with the Acura TL, the Accord is not mentioned as much, because it doesn't share major components like transmission, engine, or interior with the TL. An average consumer is more likely to notice that the I30 and Maxima share the same VQ30DE and interior than if the suspensions, bumpers, and headlight switches were the same. Thus, I think that if the I30 got a 5 speed auto, the VQ35DE, and a new interior, it would be harder to compare the car to its stablemate. Maybe instead of the VQ35DE, the Maxima should keep its engine (since it already beats Camry and Accord), and get a supercharger option for the SE (a la Frontier), so that the I30's engine could be a little more exclusive?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Let me re-iterate my position. I was talking about the:

1ST GENERATION I30!!!!!!!!

Not the current car!!! How many more times do I need to repeat myself??

[2HD]

I don't know what all the fuss is about either. The same company that does advertising for Nissan for the past how many years is the same one that does advertising for Infiniti but by the way they advertise the 2 brands you couldn't really tell. Thats what I like about them they're portraying Nissan and Infiniti as if they were 2 different brands with nothing in common. Also Nissan wanted product focused ads and the agency is giving them that. Plus I think they're doing a damn good job of portraying Infiniti as a luxury brand focusing on luxury amenities and performance which other cars in they're class cannot match. I really dislike the Lexus ads, some maybe funny but I don't see how they're portraying themselves as a Luxury mark, I don't understand why their trying to be comedians leave that to Kia and Hyundai. "Why should I by a Lexus what makes it so different than all the other luxury brands" They never tell you that, but Infiniti does.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nissanfanatic:
i dont understand. tom orbe said that because of the new ads infinti has had record selling month after month. and for the first time (i think it was last month ) the I30 out sold the ES300.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Lexus doesnt need to sell themselves as a luxury car maker! People already accept them as one! (Note usage of the word ACCEPT) But, a few years ago people DIDNT think of Lexus as a capable luxury performance car maker. They simply appealed more towards older people, luxury car people. That is why we saw them create and market the GS400, to get their message out loud and clear, that they were nolonger in the business of exclusivly supplying cars to old people. Their advertising rang loud and clear, make a mockery of their advertisments if you will. But, you cannot say it didnt work.

It's not the marketing that kills Infiniti. It's the cars that kill Infiniti. I'm speaking of the past and only the past here, not the present or future.

[2HD]

Well if your arguing about the past, then lets leave it there and focus on the future which looks bright for Infiniti right now. Their realizing their mistakes and I for one think the new Q45(even through the styling) proves they are. I'm hoping this is going to be a great decade for Infiniti 10 times better then the last one was for Lexus.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

if NISSAN gives INFINTI more sport and less or equal luxury. it'll be a very good year. People who buy LEXUS arn't buying them for luxury alon but for there edgy disigns as well. if there are going to be more cars like the I30& Q45 they should beat LEXUS at there own game.

[stonefield]

Interesting topic and discussion here. I do agree, Infiniti's advertising in the past wasn't so great. Infiniti allowing the G20 to be so weak was a huge mistake. However, I think they are on the comeback. Some things still concern me, but there are many good signs. Roommates and friends here love Nissan and Infiniti commercials, and I am the only Nissan/Infiniti fan here. So, as far as the current marketing is going, it is doing its job. The new I30 lives up to the commercials, so does the QX4. The Q45 never did. It always failed miserably compared to the competition. Slower, less luxurious, not as well equipped, etc.
I think this is why we see such huge sales growth--the products are living up to the better advertising. The I30 has outsold the ES300 the last two months. When talking about cars with those who will with me around here, almost all say they love the Nissan/Infiniti commercials, but the cars have always been boring and/or ugly. But, also they say the new ones look much better and seem to be more exciting.
Now, if Infiniti can further differentiate itself from Nissan and continue improving, they will have great success.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Somehow this enitre topic changed tracks. The original topic was ADVERTISING and only that. My point was that the ads need to change to make people aware of the new products which will be debuting shortly.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well you didnt include all that in your original post now did you? http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually, I did.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by j30owner:
IT IS TIME FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. If they don't start making better commercials or have better print ads, no one other than Infiniti owners are going to even know about the new Q. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The way you stated that in relation to everything else you said didnt make it very clear you wanted that to be your main point, the focus of your posting. I thought you were mainly posting to complain about previous ad campaigns used by Nissan. Sorry if I misunderstood. But, perhaps you should have started with something like "I believe Nissan needs to create awareness about the new Q, by hiring a new ad agency." You then could have gone on to complain about their previous ad campaigns to support your idea.

[mcervantes]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by j30owner:
I hate to say this, but Infiniti needs to change ad agencies again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don't like the ads, don't just blame the ad agency. Infiniti approves everything before they air [or are published]. The ad agency, for the most part, is just doing what they've been told.

I like most of the new commercials from Infiniti/Nissan that I've seen. My favorites were the ones with the I30 racing across the salt flats at night [the ones with all the lightning], and that QX4 commercial where it had the monoframe falling through the sky.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Infiniti:
Infiniti did in fact get a new ad agency like a couple of months ago. I don't know if the commercials out now are a result of the new company but they did get a new one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure? I thought they are using Chiat/Day and have been for a long while now. I remember that they changed the focus of the campaign last year, but thought they kept Chiat/Day. Sorry, my memory sucks. I'll need to look this up when I'm not too lazy. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif

mikecervantes

[Max Ima]

Sales have been strong. Both brands have been in the news with positive press. The advertising is definitely noticed and talked about -- especially that Polo and Maxima dessert flower commercial. I'm not sure what the beef is.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oscuro, I was talking about the 1st generation I30. The current car is much better. Bottom line, dont lie to the public, or it will come back to bite you in the end! (Unless you are a politian.)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

i dont understand. tom orbe said that because of the new ads infinti has had record selling month after month. and for the first time (i think it was last month ) the I30 out sold the ES300. But i agree on terms of the G20 but infinti said they wern't getting there hopes up about sales anyway. And my mom was treated very well upon her purchase of a new I30. And left lexus very disapointed that the ES300 was the same size as a--yes ALTIMA she said.

[2HD]

It is still Chiat/Day.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mcervantes:
Are you sure? I thought they are using Chiat/Day and have been for a long while now. I remember that they changed the focus of the campaign last year, but thought they kept Chiat/Day. Sorry, my memory sucks. I'll need to look this up when I'm not too lazy. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif

mikecervantes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Slack00]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HammerMan:
Once again, I think you're wrong, no amount of attention grabbing advertising will be enough sell bad products or products of bad product planning. Remember those little Ceasar's commercials a few years back?? Great commercials!!! They were hilarious, but their pizza was terrible. Consequently Little Ceasars went out of business.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you got that backwards, there...Given enough advertising, you can sell any product.

Yes, the product may suck, but let me ask you what has a better chance at making a transaction: A poor product with excellent coverage and advertising? or an excellent product with no or poor advertising? There are a lot of poor products that sell very well to advertising.

While the G20 wasn't what it was advertised to be, it still got people into the showrooms....and probably got more to buy them than if they didn't advertise them at all....

But I must agree strongly on one point: Infiniti didn't deliver the car that people thought was in the advertisements. And I fully agree with what Edmunds said: Give the car the VQ engine and....Viola!... Perfecto!

But, with any product, sales is a two part thing: First and foremost is producing a quality product. Second is letting the public know you have a quality product to sell. The synergy of the two is also of key importance.

My point is simply this: neither advertising alone, nor an excellent product alone, is enough to make a profit. It is not "all in the advertising" Nor is it "all in the product;" its "all in both."

[This message has been edited by Slack00 (edited 08-18-2000).]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

In regards to the Edmonds suggestion of putting the VQ30 in the G20, how could Infiniti be expected to keep the price the same? That is like saying "I'll take a V12 in my 7 series for the same money as the V8." The low $20k's just doesn't allow for that much content. That would push the price into I30 territory and defeat the purpose of having an entry level car. Besides, the G ads never said the car was fast, they just talked about the handling. The G drives very well, and with the 5-speed it moves at a reasonale pace. Even the automatic has decent passing power at highway speeds. I have spent a good deal of time behind the wheel of various G's when having my car serviced.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Also, the I30 commercial with the lightning was a good twist on the "salt flats" theme. But unfortunatley everyone is doing the "salt flats" thing now, even OLDS! My point was not to discuss the hits and misses of particular models, but to suggest a new direction for the ad campaigns when the new Q arrives. I am sure no one out there wants to see more bonzai tree and rock ads do they?

[Deadpool]

well that was ummm different?. http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

the new Q ads should be sporty and luxury you kno show the car goinh like a bat out of hell and then show a peaceful interior

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That's been done already.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

damn , back to the drawing board

[stonefield]

I think they need to advertise maybe 4 or 5 months in advance for the new Q. Build up people's anticipations. Then within a couple of weeks run the ads that will be run with its debut. Keep the ads product focused--so glad Nissan/Infiniti started doing that. I believe the new Q is something that will not only live up to expectations, but also beat them.