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What is the ultimate Japanese engine? I just wanted to tell every one I had been watching some racing movies both in Japan and Australia and learned about Mazda’s 3 Rotory engines out of Cosmo 20B. I was wandering how does it compares with RB26DETT?
Here I a link to 3 Rotory site to learn more about it. www.3rotory.com (http://www.3rotor.com)
[This message has been edited by Mo (edited 06-17-2001).]
'97 S14 SE Turbo
05-13-2001, 06:50 AM
I'd say the ultimate engine so far is the 2JZ-GTE (sp?) 3.0L twin turbo inline six from the MKIV Supra... Easily 600hp w/o internal work.
By comparison, the RB26DETT has to be totally rebuilt and stroked to be RB28DETT to make mad power.
TwinTurboZX
05-13-2001, 10:30 AM
The best japanese engine hands down is the NISSAN SR20DET, you can easily crank out 650 horses. That's just the single turbo, but the twin turbo version can go around 1000 horses. That's one sweet 2.0 liter monster. http://66.96.198.147/forum/images/icons/grin.gif
**DONOTDELETE**
05-13-2001, 11:19 AM
i've never heard of a twin turbo sr20. i heard the sr20 is capable of 700 hp or so.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-13-2001, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nsuguy:
i've never heard of a twin turbo sr20. i heard the sr20 is capable of 700 hp or so.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well I think that really was a sr22
**DONOTDELETE**
05-13-2001, 09:34 PM
yes, but the amount of power they can squeeze out of that little 2.6 in mind blowing. I do agree though Toyota really knows how to overbuild engines, the last gen. Mr2 was the same way. I think I remember seeing one with over 1,000hp.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-14-2001, 06:53 AM
To compare an engine out of Liter class, is like comparing the SE-R to the RSX.. Just doesn't work.
Liter for Liter is the only true comparison.
Factory built N/A.. Or Turbo, if the setups match part for part.
Toyota wins in the 4.0-5liter V class.
Nissan wins in the 1.8-2.8liter L class.
Nissan and Honda tie in the 3.0-3.9 V class.
Mazda wins the .9-1.7liter class. True mazda rotory are not v or L class and put out more HP per ltr than any of the above.
http://66.96.198.147/forum/images/icons/cool.gif
**DONOTDELETE**
05-14-2001, 07:40 AM
In the UK there is a twin turbo s13 200sx (ca18det!) heres a picture.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1503982&a=11351942&p=48463332
Nismo
05-14-2001, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mo:
What is the ultimate Japanese engine?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That depends on what you mean by "the ultimate." Is the ultimate engine the most fuel-efficient, have the highest specific output, have the highest power-to-weight ratio, have the most horsepower regardless of weight/displacement, emit the least air pollution, or some other criterion?
F1 engines were making well over 1000 horsepower some twenty years ago with their minuscule 1.5 liters of displacement. If maximum power is what you're after, get the biggest and strongest (i.e.--cast iron) engine you can find--preferably DOHC--and turbocharge the #*$% out of it. Horesepower will be well into the quadruple digits. Among Japanese engines, Nissan's 2.6L I6 or Toyota's 3.0L I6 are both good engines for maximum power contests, with the Toyota having a slight power advantage.
dfw_alan
05-14-2001, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nsuguy:
i must be the only one who doesn't care about hp/l. just me though, i'm not the biggest import freak<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are not the only one. All that matters is HP/Weight. High HP turbo, small displacement engines = big time lag, which sux ass on anything but straight line runs.... I'm not impressed.
I would like to see more 4.0L+ V8 jap engines...
thearabian
05-14-2001, 06:07 PM
heh, i'd like to see a jap medium block sometime soon http://66.96.198.147/forum/images/icons/smile.gif
guess i'm dreaming
**DONOTDELETE**
05-14-2001, 09:13 PM
i must be the only one who doesn't care about hp/l. just me though, i'm not the biggest import freak
Okay I might be confusing some people so I will elaborate a little further. What I meant by ultimate engine was HP and HP only in production car engines that are moded for performance. Also, why is it no one is saying anything about 3rotory engine? It could easily make over 600hp with out turbo and with turbo it could make more then 900hp. On the video I was watching 2 guy where following the same car they are driving which was old model Toyota Corolla then the guy in front shifts down and disappear like a rocket. Then they meet with the guy and shows the 3rotory engine that is has swapped with big Garrett turbo.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-15-2001, 06:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mo:
Okay I might be confusing some people so I will elaborate a little further. What I meant by ultimate engine was HP and HP only in production car engines that are moded for performance. Also, why is it no one is saying anything about 3rotory engine? It could easily make over 600hp with out turbo and with turbo it could make more then 900hp. On the video I was watching 2 guy where following the same car they are driving which was old model Toyota Corolla then the guy in front shifts down and disappear like a rocket. Then they meet with the guy and shows the 3rotory engine that is has swapped with big Garrett turbo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you NOT READ my post above?
What was said is the ROTORY(true Mazda) engine is better liter to HP than any of the others.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spec240sx:
Did you NOT READ my post above?
What was said is the ROTORY(true Mazda) engine is better liter to HP than any of the others. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And if you where to read mine you would have realized I only asked about HP not liter to HP ratio. Like I said before which engine makes more HP or what is the max HP made on these Japanese engine. I heard the max HP you could produce on RB26DETT is 1500HP and Supra was around 1200HP I don’t know about 3rotory I heard one guy in Australia produces around 1200hp with it but I don’t know if that is the max.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-16-2001, 08:13 PM
right now, IMO, the SR20VET can't be beat, although I'd say that the new Mazda RENESIS rotary is just as amazing.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-19-2001, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mo:
What is the ultimate Japanese engine? I just wanted to tell every one I had been watching some racing movies both in Japan and Australia and learned about Mazda’s 3 Rotory engines out of Cosmo 20B. I was wandering how does it compares with RB26DETT?
Here I a link to 3 Rotory site to learn more about it. www.3rotory.com (http://www.3rotory.com) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The rotory is an interesting design but it doesn't seem to be reliable.
btw, you link is broken.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-27-2001, 06:43 PM
What about the S2000? 240hp, 2.0 liter, natural asperation, and a 9000rpm redline all in stock form? I find this engine simply amazing, even with the aftermarket it is hard to put out 240 hp on a N/A 2.0 engine.
**DONOTDELETE**
05-27-2001, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by White240sx:
What about the S2000? 240hp, 2.0 liter, natural asperation, and a 9000rpm redline all in stock form? I find this engine simply amazing, even with the aftermarket it is hard to put out 240 hp on a N/A 2.0 engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, the S2000 is a detuned engine design from the racing breed. And it share MANY build process@' with it's racing brother.
The 2ltr Nissan can put out the same amount when it is setup with the same parts and engineered. The 2ltr NA in the S15 has a few parts replaced on the AUTECH version and puts out over 220HP(If I read the Nissan.jp site correctly).
Just my pennies worth..
**DONOTDELETE**
06-05-2001, 11:14 PM
Well, the Nissan SR16VE has 200ps from <1.6L displacement on the Pulsar VZ-R N1... it's been out as a '97 model and kicked the Honda B16B's(Civic Type-R) butt. http://66.96.198.147/forum/images/icons/wink.gif Both are "factory-tuned" cars... coz the ordinary Civic SiR only makes 170ps, whilst the ordinary Pulsar VZ-R makes 175ps.
Of course the Nissan X-Trail makes 280ps out of the SR20VET.
But imho, what matters more is power/weight... and not specific output. I don't really care how the power was made, as long as it's useable.
**DONOTDELETE**
06-06-2001, 04:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VZ-R_N1:
Well, the Nissan SR16VE has 200ps from <1.6L displacement on the Pulsar VZ-R N1... it's been out as a '97 model and kicked the Honda B16B's(Civic Type-R) butt. http://66.96.198.147/forum/images/icons/wink.gif Both are "factory-tuned" cars... coz the ordinary Civic SiR only makes 170ps, whilst the ordinary Pulsar VZ-R makes 175ps.
Of course the Nissan X-Trail makes 280ps out of the SR20VET.
But imho, what matters more is power/weight... and not specific output. I don't really care how the power was made, as long as it's useable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yepper!!!
Usable and in an normal operating range. NOT at the end of RPM.
**DONOTDELETE**
06-15-2001, 07:26 PM
Lots of horsepower is great! But does no good if trans and rear end dont match! Than dont forget the driver!
**DONOTDELETE**
06-17-2001, 07:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dacman:
I would like to see more 4.0L+ V8 jap engines...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That just goes against most Japanese auto philosphies. The only reason they do it now is becuase they were forced to do it to stay competitive, mainly in western markets.
V8 is a total waste and the japs are all about efficiency. Why else can "small" inline six cyl engines spank V8s and V10s for that matter in races?
Honda is an excellent example of a company still being competitive with out the need for huge displacement engines. When it seems the next Supra and next Skyline might get V8s, the next NSX is surely stick to a V6. Increasing displacement is for lamers like GM and Diamler...
**DONOTDELETE**
06-17-2001, 11:58 AM
No, it is not lame to increase the displacement of engines. A larger displacement engine of the same design would typically produce and handle more power. Otherwise, Honda would put the same engine on the NSX and the Civic.
Here are some sites that would help you learn about 3rotory(20B) engine from Mazda Cosmo. http://www.3rotor.com http://www.monito.com/wankel/drag-oz.html http://www.monito.com/wankel/convert-solomon.html http://www.monito.com/wankel/cosmo20b.html http://www.3rotor.com/eunos_tech.htm
thearabian
06-17-2001, 06:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsrmunj:
That just goes against most Japanese auto philosphies. The only reason they do it now is becuase they were forced to do it to stay competitive, mainly in western markets.
V8 is a total waste and the japs are all about efficiency. Why else can "small" inline six cyl engines spank V8s and V10s for that matter in races?
Honda is an excellent example of a company still being competitive with out the need for huge displacement engines. When it seems the next Supra and next Skyline might get V8s, the next NSX is surely stick to a V6. Increasing displacement is for lamers like GM and Diamler... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i guess then the Formula 1 series is completely off base with their 3.0L V10's eh?
or the Corvette is spanking everyone in its class at Le Mans, or that the BMW M3 is competing with a V8...
cmon bud, open your eyes and see that displacement and # of cylinders is the 1st and formemost way of increasing power!
Mav1178
06-18-2001, 12:40 AM
Forget the 3-rotor!
It's all about the 4-rotor from the 1991 Le Mans-winning Mazda 787B race car! 700HP naturally aspirated!
-alex
Nismo
06-18-2001, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thearabian:
Displacement and # of cylinders is the 1st and formemost way of increasing power!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Absolutely. Increasing displacement will net power, but at a cost (weight); therefore, if weight is an issue, first decide what power level you want, then get the smallest-displacment turboed engine that will satisy your minimum power criteria.
Gsrmunj, one of the reason Acura sticks a 3.2L V6 in the NSX is to keep the engine package small enough and light enough for the car's mid-engine design. Honda didn't use a turbo for a number of reasons: they wanted excellent reliability and good gas mileage, and they also probably relished the opportunity to show off their technologically advanced N/A engine design.
**DONOTDELETE**
06-19-2001, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thearabian:
i guess then the Formula 1 series is completely off base with their 3.0L V10's eh?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This partly conforms to what I said. My main point was to say displacement is not the solution, and not cylinder count.
I think a 3.0L V10 is kinda extreme, but then again, that is RACING. Totally different ideals and philosphies. Not what I was going for. But, I am a fan of small displacement engines with more cylinders than normal. Like the Euro IS200 with a 2.0L 6 cyl or the RB20DET.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>
cmon bud, open your eyes and see that displacement and # of cylinders is the 1st and formemost way of increasing power!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally disagree. Increasing power can be done much easier without having to do what you just said. Its called Forced Induction.
Many companies have been sucessful, and I'm sure we can all give Racing examples. Hows about the S4 in SpeedVision?
And I'll take your logic and spit out right back ya... Doesn't CART use Turbo V8s? As opposed to NA V10s in F1(or whoever).
And you can use the same logic I used and say that its all RACING, and none of what we are talking about applies, but whatever...
And Nismo, yea I'm fully aware of all things NSX. Trust me, I'm a huge fan of the car.
I think that it just proves my entire point. The next NSX will remain with a V6, in this case a 3.5L i-VTEC motor. And it can still be competitive. Many other things come into play, like the aluminum body, etc.
But there's no need for a big ass 5.0L V8 here.
And that resolves my other point. The other replacement for displacment is technology.
**DONOTDELETE**
06-19-2001, 11:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mav1178:
It's all about the 4-rotor from the 1991 Le Mans-winning Mazda 787B race car! 700HP naturally aspirated!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True to that.
thearabian
06-19-2001, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsrmunj:
I totally disagree. Increasing power can be done much easier without having to do what you just said. Its called Forced Induction.
Many companies have been sucessful, and I'm sure we can all give Racing examples. Hows about the S4 in SpeedVision?
And I'll take your logic and spit out right back ya... Doesn't CART use Turbo V8s? As opposed to NA V10s in F1(or whoever).
And you can use the same logic I used and say that its all RACING, and none of what we are talking about applies, but whatever...
And Nismo, yea I'm fully aware of all things NSX. Trust me, I'm a huge fan of the car.
I think that it just proves my entire point. The next NSX will remain with a V6, in this case a 3.5L i-VTEC motor. And it can still be competitive. Many other things come into play, like the aluminum body, etc.
But there's no need for a big ass 5.0L V8 here.
And that resolves my other point. The other replacement for displacment is technology.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
you know what, i will not get caught up in a maze of circular logic, as I am a big advocate of large engines
this kind of argument comes up way too often http://66.96.198.147/forum/images/icons/smile.gif
but let me reiterate, the easiest and most reliable way of getting more power is a larger engine
some like turbos (i dont)
some like high redlines (i do but not on road cars)
some like technology (i do too, but hey put it on a larger engine, for even more thrills)
Nismo
06-20-2001, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial[/img]quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thearabian:
The easiest and most reliable way of getting more power is a larger engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger that.
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