Attention!

[Slack00]

This is a Car Lounge problem:

I don't know about ya'll, but I find little to no enjoyment about reading about the misfortunes of other car companies. I mentioned this a year or two ago, and, after a few years, it has not become any better... Worse yet, some of you (you know who you are) seem to take a perverse joy in highlighting the tragedies of others, with the thin veil of "People need to be informed" as your only (weak) excuse for doing so. I guess there are always morbid people who honestly read the obituaries for enjoyment, but I certainly do not count myself in that group. What's even sicker to me is that most of this bashing seems to directed at the domestics, and, despite the validity in the statement that domestics, generally, are not as well made as imports, I still quantify this attitude as a form of Automotive Racism. I think prejudice is still a major problem among many forum members. And let me also say that, to true automotive enthusiasts and engineers (like myself) you do yourself a great disservice, credibility-wise.

I like to read this forum because I like to learn about other car models other than Nissan. Certainly this kind of information has its place, but I wish it wasn't in the Car Lounge forum. Perhaps we could just open up another forum for "Other Automotive News" where we could corral all this yellow journalism into one place.... that way, I won't have to read the Obituary page along with the Art and Sytle section....

[Jawad]

Does it have something to do with posting recalls?

[SHIFT_6speeds]

LOL http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[jaje]

i completely agree...it seems most people here talk about how a car looks and judge it then...i don't care much about some ricers opinion on how the new accord looks or how product quality of domestics isn't up to par...keep it to yourselves b/c it only makes me more likely to ignore future comments from that user

maybe a name change to auto news/rumors to solidify the point...there's always the closet forums to insult all other mfgrs and feel good about ones biased choice

[warrmax]

As far as "Racism" to domestics is concerned...all I have to go on are the troubles that family, friends, and myself have had with them. I don't think the word "racism" should be used to describe someones biased to domestic or import automobiles. I would call it preference...all be it an informed one.

[Slack00]

That's just it; most people are uninformed, so that's why I say "prejudiced". No car manufacturer puts out a perfect vehicle, and, although domestics have had higher reliability issues in the past, I consider the present-day difference in reliability issues of domestics and imports (as reported by Consumer Reports) to be largely insignificant. Maybe significant to some, but not significant to me. There is not a whole lot of difference between 1 in 1000 cars having a problem and 1 in 1200. Odds are, you are going to get a good car.

As for your personal experience, that's just it: it is not necessarily a global phenomenon. My experience with domestics has been great.

[warrmax]

I am going to relate a personal experience to you that simply floored me...even considering my preferance to imports.

I test drove a new GMC Envoy a few weeks ago. I could not keep the thing tracking down the road in a straight line...and there was literally no wind. We got back to the dealership and I walked around a Chvey TrailBlazer EXT. The rear vent glass between the C and D pillars was not attatched at the forward part..causing it to droop and leaving the interior open to the elements. It was only being held in place by the rod that powers it into the vent position!

This incident is nothing new to me. Every time I visit a domestic dealership I am so disappointed in what I see, feel and experience that it saddens me. I desperately want to like them...but they never prove to me that they are worth owning...even with ZERO miles!

The Chevy TrailBlazer and GMC Envoy are assembled in Oklahoma City. 50 miles from where I live. Wish I could cheer for the "good ol boys"!

[kevhen]

I think alot of people speak from personal experience and are stating their opinions. I have never owned any foreign made cars but prefer most foreign cars interiors and their quiet, smoother engines, to American made. Also my family who only buys American cars tends to have their cars in the shop much more often than my wife who has a foreign car after having many problems with her American car. My next car will be a foreign car.

Cut the crap about rascism, this is a board about opinions about inanimate objects. Rascism is about harming another human in some way just because of their skin color. Speaking freely about cars, good or bad, is a protected right under the First Amendment.

[SHIFT_6speeds]

VERY WELL SAID Kevhen!

I also come from a family of domestic only owners. I was the 1st to stray away to the imports, brave they thoought. Now most have been envious of my very few trips to the shop compared to them.

My father was a mechanic his entire natural born life and a domestic supporter. When I got my 1st Datsun back in 84, he was very impressed with its build, engineering and quality.

So, we are informed, very informed. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Thanks Dad, I miss you...

[Slack00]

I don't dispute any of the facts about everyone's personal experiences. And most certainly, most people regard the first-hand form of experience as the most valuable, because it is what they have seen and witnessed with their very own eyes.

But the data does not support personal experiences, it only supports global ones. And, no matter my personal luck of the draw, no matter how strongly I feel in my opinion about something, the harsh reality is, the numbers don't lie. I still believe the data, because it is a collection of personal experiences, and is not limited in scope to the few.

But my own personal experiences with imports and domestics, believe it or not, has been more fair. We've had a 1978 Ford Econoline Van that ran as far as the day is long. We had 1989 Buick LeSabre whose engine refused to die (the interior was very poor, though). We had 1998 Oldsmobile 88 that was flawless. We've had a 1998 Honda Accord that was also flawless (except for some trim around the sunroof and a strange discoloration on the leather). The 1984 Corvette my brother owned, however, was a nightmare. (Not coincidentally, the 84 Vette is probably one of the worst cars to own, ever). My sister had a Saturn coupe that wasn't impressive, but it wasn't ever in the shop. My other sister had owned a 1990 Acura Integra, which was also wonderful. Our 1996 Acura Integra sedan, however, was noisy and troublesome. My dad's new 1999 Ford F-150 is also flawless. I lOVED my first 240SX, but the engine overheated after I had a failed waterpump. Talk about a disaster. (Even so, I am still a Nissan fan).

There were more cars, but, my family's car experience had been roughly divided between imports and domestics. Our general "feeling" was that imports felt better and seemed to be higher quality, but they definitely weren't problemless. Neither were our domestics mechanical nightmares; in fact, some of them never had a problem.

So, as you can see from my personal experience, I think it is unfair to bash domestics so much. But more than that, the data from Consumer Reports (and other such publications) seem to agree that the rest of America has had similar experiences to my own...

Admittedly, I did use the word 'racism' for its shock value; certainly, it is a common belief that "all men were created equal"....but perhaps cars are not...;) I just used that word because I knew it would get people to think and respond to the subject....

[fatddyslam69]

wow...i didnt think there would be racism in car companys...seems wierd, but it seems that IS the case, unfortunately, but i dont think car recalls are an issue because the whole "i want to learn about different car manufacturers" should include the recalls that come out of them...just as we post nissan recalls. I probably didnt make sense, but bare with me (as i say in all of my posts)... http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif