What a deal on a G35 Coupe!! [Archive]

a3a12498_Richard

09-25-2002, 06:52 PM

The sad news is that Infiniti knows this goes on, and that it annoys customers to the point that they may lose some sales, but their response is that they cannot control what the dealers sell the car for. It is called a cartel, price fixing, or restraint of trade.

The only rational response to this dispicable practice is to boycott dealers who do this. Perhaps an approach would be to say to the dealer, that you will pay the $5k-$10k over MSRP, on the condition that they put in writing that they will give you same amount over some benchmark, e.g. Kelly blue book, black book in the future. So in 3 years if the $35k new car is going for $19,200, and you paid a $5k market adjustment, they will pay you $24,200. Of course they would never do this, so my response to the dealer would be anything over MSRP is a ridiculous premise, and unrealistic. In my opinion the return of the market adjustment on the front end, is as ridiculous as the market adjustment on the back end.

Finally if someone has more money than brains, and pays this surcharge, they deserve the clobbering they will get 2-3 years down the road.

Blug35c

09-25-2002, 06:55 PM

A copy has been forwarded to Infiniti.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-25-2002, 06:56 PM

You might want to cross-post this in the Dealer Experience forum too. . . may as well let other Infiniti buyers know about them.

gtpark

09-25-2002, 07:04 PM

Not that it will do much good; but I think we should let these dealers know we will hold it against them later.

My e-mail to them:

Jonathan,

The practice of your dealership scalping on the price of the Coupe is duly noted. Not many dealerships are as greedy as yours; most people on the G35 forums are finding reputable dealers willing to sell at MSRP. We hope to let as many people as possible know about the greedy paratices of dealerships such as yours. I hope that the short term gain is offset by a long term loss as people boycott your dealership.

Sincerely
Greg

Blug35c

09-25-2002, 07:15 PM

I would cross post but I don't know how. Anybody help out?

Brah K

09-25-2002, 07:31 PM

A Nissan dealer near me also said, "we're selling our 350z's a little over MSRP".

When I asked "how little over MSRP", he said "$4,900 over".

**DONOTDELETE**

09-25-2002, 07:43 PM

I'm not sure how to do it automagically, but I'd just copy and paste the text of the first post into a new message on the other forum. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

JONES_Z

09-25-2002, 07:54 PM

if you preordered your Z, you would not have paid over. The chance was there to take.

gfunk808

09-25-2002, 09:30 PM

a3a12498 (interesting handle) - that was a good post, i haven't heard of approaching things that way before.

another thing that some have pointed out about 'mkt adjustments' is the fact that in the end, the dealer will either loose customers to other dealers (who *will* sell for MSRP), or scare away infiniti customers altogether. since sales are the goal, neither of these things are good for the dealer/mfg... especially since future allottments are based on past sales volumes... they are shooting themselves in the foot.

96_ss

09-25-2002, 09:52 PM

We all would hope for that, but there are a lot of unwise consumers who ARE going to pay that "adjustment".

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 02:38 PM

So you're mad the salesman told the you truth in an email instead of to your face at the dealership?.... I think you're the one on drugs.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 02:47 PM

A few comments:

Sounds like the salesguy was being upfront with you about company policy, and you bash him. wtf?

I find it odd, that the Infinit dealer here in Sacramento is selling at MSRP, while a 350Z will run me 7k OVER MSRP. I guess I should write a letter to Nissan. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

For $2k, I'd be happy to pick up and deliver a G35 for you out of towners.

-Todd

Toso_the_curb_kisser

09-27-2002, 02:57 PM

What is your problem? Does it suprise you that there is a markup? And you're mad at the salesperson for giving you more information than he had to and saving you a trip? Face it, you're just throwing a fit because you cant get the car for MSRP....get over it and go somewhere else. Do you always get pissed at people who give you bad news? Have you complained to the local newspaper about reporting all the things that are wrong? Please, grow up!

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 02:58 PM

:sigh: someone tries to help you out and give you the 411 on what the dealership was doing to save you time and money and you stab him in the back, NICE Fn JOB. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif you could have atleast wrote your own letter to Infiniti about it.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 03:07 PM

He tries to be truthful with you (an honest salesman.. what a concept!) and you try to get him in trouble in return?

Morons.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 03:21 PM

That dealer his job... just for being honest. You really are a moron if that was you... if it was someone else, well next time use your brain, and don't get someone fired because you get pissed about a markup they can't control.

Either buy the car or shut up, but don't get this guy fired. It could be too late now...

Sickman

09-27-2002, 03:33 PM

Looks like Casimir got hell from his boss about this and rallied his friends to his defense on this board.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 03:57 PM

poor salesman told you the truth and you flame him. What did you expect? Nissan/Infiniti wants to make some money, it's not his fault.. better he tells you than you drive up there and be disappointed. Be a little easier on him. jeeez.

madisonmc

09-27-2002, 03:57 PM

There sure are a lot of first-time posters here. Ummmm. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 04:16 PM

"Looks like Casimir got hell from his boss about this and rallied his friends to his defense on this board"

The guy was upset about being reamed for being honest...that's it. Honestly, does that really change the fact that he went above and beyond what a normal salesperson would do to help the consumer and ended up getting flamed hardcore for it? Not one bit.

There are so many things wrong with the dealer/factory scenario when it comes to selling/pricing cars. He finds a diamond in the rough of a salesman that told it like it was and BAM, is probably going to get him reprimanded and/or fired. Unbelievable. I run 350ZForum.com and I see people post all the time that were reamed by dealers and coerced to pay as much as $6,000 over MSRP...each and every single one of them would kill for a salesman that honest.

It's people like this that stopped me from posting here a while back...I used to be a bigtime contributor (in fact, my spy photos of the 350Z are still archived from back in the day). I'm certainly no "first time poster" and it shouldn't matter anyways.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 04:34 PM

The salesman, and the dealer should get boycoted, and avoided at all costs. There are more reputable dealers out there.

The posts defending the salesman and the dealer, don't seem to be from long time freshalloy patrons.

What can that mean?

Could it be the saleman and/or dealer found this forum after the hint of customer backlash got back to them?

Can you say damage control?

I say slime, and it demonstrates why the car buying process has become such an adversarial interaction, in many cases.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 04:35 PM

You are unbelievable. I can understand being upset at Infinity for marking up $5,000.00 over MSRP, but to post a message from an guy who was being honest with you and trying to do you a favor is rediculous. If you were mad about the mark up, you could have posted the message and left the man's name anonymous , but instead , you flame the guy, post his name on the web and jeapordize the mans job for going above and beyond his duty in order to save you from wasting your time. I only wish you had driven however many miles to the dealership and then found out. You disgust me.

RudyRusso

09-27-2002, 04:36 PM

Then let's hear from one more first-timer...I've been following this string because I wanted to see more about dealers marking up the G35C. The salesman at Barker Infiniti may not have deserved getting held up to national ridicule for just doing his job (although, imho, he wasn't particularly bright in the way he went about it), but the nastiness directed at Capt. Kirk for doing so is way out of line. He's the one who had another dealer renege on a deal in writing, and try to charge him an additional $5000. His posting of the second message was to warn people that other dealers are doing the same thing.

There are Infiniti dealers who are selling the Coupe at sticker (Raleigh and Greensboro, for two). There are those who aren't. It's a business decision, and obviously those who are adding a "market adjustment" should plan on taking a little heat for it (even if it is an accepted practice seen with other cars, including the early turbo Z-car).

I am also suspicious of all the people who are making the attacks. Looks like an organized response to me.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 04:43 PM

I applaud the original poster. The power of the consumer is information and that person shared information to warn us of an unscrupulous dealer.

The nasty responses are obviously damage control of the dealer/salesman and it has only made them look more ridicules

Sorry dude(s), it didn't work!

FaureG35

09-27-2002, 04:46 PM

And it looks like an organized attempt by Infiniti dealers nationwide to take maximum advantage of a car that will be in high demand and short supply. It would be interesting to find out what percentage of U.S. Infiniti dealers are actually implementing the $5000 markup on G35Cs.

I know, the supply-demand model is an essential part of captitalism. But $5000 over MSRP? It just makes one appreciate even more those dealers who won't take advantage of the shortage and will charge no more than MSRP. Those dealers deserve our business and support.

Toso_the_curb_kisser

09-27-2002, 04:49 PM

I can understand being upset with the dealership. But the salesperson was only trying to help someone out. Then he got burnt. That, my friends, is why buying cars is the way it is. Why would anyone want to stick their neck out to help someone only to have it cut off by the very person you're trying to help.

First time poster or not. How can anyone defend the action taken against the salesperson? And if you take a closer look, you'll see that there are quite a few short term members against the salesperson. And I am not a short term member!

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 04:59 PM

Their right to charge what people will pay. Your right (and anybody else's) not to buy. 2 dealers in the Atlanta area who promised to charge MSRP - I ordered from one. Better chance for that in an area where there are more dealers.

RudyRusso

09-27-2002, 05:02 PM

I'd be interested to know who among those posting has actually ordered - or will order within the next six months or so - a G35Coupe. And if you have ordered or talked seriously with a dealer about ordering a car, how many of you are paying a "market adjustment" for the privilige of being among the first to own a Coupe? Have you found any dealers NOT charging a "market adjustment"? If so, which ones? Post them here...along with the dealers who AREN'T marking up the Coupes.
And come to think of it, did anyone pay a premium for their G35 sedan?

gtpark

09-27-2002, 05:24 PM

I have a Coupe on order. Talked to four dealers, Little Rock, Ar; Dallas, Tx.; OKC, Ok; and Tulsa, Ok; all at MSRP, with no addons. Greed is the name of the game for some, I hope their long term loss is greater than their short term gain.
Greg

DeTrini

09-27-2002, 05:38 PM

If my dealer trys this stunt. I'll take back my deposit and fly to anywhere in US to get it at MSRP. I'll enjoy my flight there and really enjoy my DRIVER back home....

madisonmc

09-27-2002, 05:42 PM

Rudy:

I think you will find that the vast majority of the people with coupes on order are at MSRP. This subject has been discussed before on this forum. There was even a poll taken on this subject. Try using the search feature that is provided.

The $5K adjustment is new news to those on this forum. Hence, the backlash. I am one of those who have a M6 on order (1st allocation) and will pay MSRP (no more or no less) Only a small percentage of those that took the poll said that they were paying more than MSRP.

2001_S15

09-27-2002, 05:57 PM

If everyone complained about this sort of behaviour, maybe Infiniti would get the message that its price gouging isn't appreciated.

Again, these cars are simply not worth $5,000 more than what is being charged for them. I've driven two G35 sedans, and while I don't think the materials are as bad as some make out, they're not $40k + good. I have a hard time convincing myself the car is even $35k + good.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 05:58 PM

CoupeMaybe
You, buddy are a moron. Where in the posts did ANY ONE defend the dealership?? Reading competition owns you.

And for some reason you don’t think this stuff gets around to other forums? Just a few days ago, some punk ass service rep from a ford dealership in Texas posted about how he was working on a persons car and went out joy riding it to 140 MPH. In a matter of hours, the owner of that said car saw the post, it was spread on a host of different forums, the BMW, Vette, LS1, Honda, Se-r, 300zx, Supra, ect people replied to the poor owners defense.

We (car enthusiasts) know how hard it is to have people at the dealer ship to give a [censored] about us when we take our cars in for service, to pick up parts, or to treat us with respect when shopping for a new car. This sales man is a car guy just like you, and I would so even more so. And you would kick him in the ass for helping a fellow Nissan enthusiasts out by letting him know the dealership is screwing ppl over and that he should look somewhere else. You sir are the scum bag.

We (the old and new posters) defending the salesman are not from Infiniti, sorry to tell you that. Do a IP scan if you want, we are just here to defend a person that tried to help a guy out.

I hope when ever you do take you car in if you have it serviced (cuz i doubt you could turn a wrench to save your life) have your car wrapped around a pole like several people i know, cuz you don't deserve it.

DED

09-27-2002, 06:04 PM

Agreed. Lots o people attacking Blu just for providing information and expressing displeasure. NO ONE attacked Jonathon in this whole thread.

So I will. Jonathon, you are a car salesman. Why would you lie like that? Any research at all would tell you that what you say in the letter is a lie. Please let us understand why you, who should know most about your product, would lie about it. And all your freinds are welcome to respond also.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 06:07 PM

Rudy, see my post above your re: 2 Atlanta dealers promising to charge MSRP. If you want to know who they are, ask.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 06:14 PM

WTF where did Jonathon lie?

and Blu sent e mails all over Infiniti with Jonathon's name on it.

and DED, you too are a moron with WannaBeCoup

FaureG35

09-27-2002, 06:19 PM

Quit shouting. You're keeping the neighbors up.

DED

09-27-2002, 06:21 PM

right here.

"The only dealership I have heard of that is selling them at MSRP is a large volume dealership in Sacramento, CA."

And you are right, I do want a coupe. Bad. But you won't be the one selling it to me.

And, let me add, if Blu was not truthful in his post, I apologize and he should be banned.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 06:26 PM

how are you gonna live with yourself if he gets fired? -_-

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 06:35 PM

<blockquote><hr />
right here."The only dealership I have heard of that is selling them at MSRP is a large volume dealership in Sacramento, CA."

[/QUOTE]

dude, first he's telling what he heard, and 2nd, he's telling blug to shop around, which means he helped him from spending the markup, i repeat, he helped blug, by being honest

<blockquote><hr />
And you are right, I do want a coupe. Bad. But you won't be the one selling it to me.

[/QUOTE]

does he sound like he's trying to make a sale and rip ppl off by telling them about the markup? I dont think so

now if you condemn him for being an honest salesman, then no offense, I really dunno where you learn your moral values http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 06:37 PM

bold is not shouting, THIS IS Fn SHOUTING. Christ.

"The only dealership I have heard of that is selling them at MSRP is a large volume dealership in Sacramento, CA."
ever think he (not me) might not know what all the dealerships in the US are doing? Think he spends all day with the online phone book calling up dealership after dealership to know what they are doing? He still let the dude know befor he drove (how far) in to place an order?

I was thinking about trading in or selling my 01 Frontier to get g35c because they look a lot better then the 350z but if this is how you g35 people treat people that try to help you, I think I will keep my desert runner. Lord knows Im not trading in my 300ZX to be with a bunch of stuck up pr&*ks. and for those that think im Jon, you can look me up on may sports car forums and see that im living in the Macon GA area. it just pisses me off that you people would get this guy in soo much trouble because he tryed to help a person out.

gfunk808

09-27-2002, 06:37 PM

ehhh, this is like watching a car accident... anyway,

IMO the only people we should be angry with are the people who are willing to spend thousands on a market adjustment, thereby validating the type of pricing behavior we will see at some dealerships. sure it's their money to do with as they please, maybe they don't realize they are messing things up for the average joe... or maybe they don't care.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 06:45 PM

Post deleted by KaZ

Blug35c

09-27-2002, 08:44 PM

I am the original poster!! I have read all the comments and funny how my personal e-mail has been bombarded by the same negative posts. Funny thing in one e-mail I received Kas actually identifed himself as the salesman in question!! see below!! Why not on this board. Infiniti has called and spoken personally to me and apologized for this. If this salesman is so honest why did he say all East Coast delaers are marking up the coupe $5000??? I have a right to share information with my fellow posters at Freshalloy.

"This will just show you why you don't always want to tell the truth... =( I'll post the link to show you what I'm talking about in a second, let me explain first...Ok, yes, I replied at the bottom of the post talking about myself in the third person because I have already been reemed by the bigwigs about this, and I didn't want Infiniti yelling at me even more, or even firing me as I just started this job... =( So please, don't reply to me personally or mention anything about me... if you want to reply feel free, I just ask you leave TT.Net and me personally out of it... I just wanted to post hear to let you all know before someone else found it and posted about it... But anyway...For those that don't know, I'm "currently" employed as a Salesman at an Infiniti Dealership. We like a lot of dealerships have a markup on the new G35c (similar to Nissan dealers with 350Z markups!) My fellow salesman and I don't like it (except that we'll make a little more on that vehicle because of the extra profit, but its not much) but there isn't anything we can do about it as we don't set the prices... So... I had a guy email the dealership about the G35c, and I relayed the info I knew and I didn't think there was anything wrong with what I did... it was all common knowledge, same [censored] we tell everyone that walks in the door asking about the G35c. Well this guy felt I was screwing G35c enthusiasts everywhere and doing a disservice in general and decided to post it on FreshAlloy.com. Granted I'm not happy about the fact that my dealership has a markup (I dispise them personally) and I could have lied to him, but I chose not to lie about anything, and simply told him what I personally knew from working there... I didn't want to mislead the guy to get him to come in and buy a G35c from me after having driven up from Raleigh, NC (my dealership being in Southern VA) to then find out about the markup and be pissed (I'm be beside myself is I was in his shoes and had been lied too), so I told him up front... well he felt that I had done him wrong and posted the email, my name, the name of the dealership I work at, and the dealership phone number, and then later emailed it directly to Infiniti. =(So I got a nice phone call from my Manager this afternoon (one of my only days off), telling me that he had already been called by our District Manager, who had been called by someone above him, who had been called by someone above him, etc etc etc (basically tricklying down from the very top of Infiniti) chewing me out about it... he basically read me my email to the gentleman telling me Infiniti's Internet Marketing division wasn't very happy with me... But he did say I'm rather well known throughout that part of Infiniti now (*sarcasm* Go Me! *sarcasm*) So far as I know, I'm still employed, Manager said we'd talk about it tomorrow when I come in to work in the morning, and more than likely I'll simply get a disciplinary statement on my record with Infiniti about it, but I'm kinda afraid it will be more than that... =( I mean I just started there three weeks ago, love the job and the people I work with (hate the markups yes...), and definitely don't want to lose my job... especially not over being honest to some guy who felt I'd done him wrong over a simple email.But so far I have no idea what's going to happen... I doubt that the markup will be dropped, at my dealership, or any others... but this just goes to show you the danger of being honest... I was just trying to tell the guy what I knew, politely telling him to look elsewhere if he really wanted to buy a G35c at MSRP (granted I probably shouldn't have given an actual amount which is basically why I'm in trouble), but now I'm in deep [censored] for it... I probably do deserve it as some of you may decide... but just goes to show you... There are dangers in telling the truth...Wish me luck guys... I just hope I'm still employed next week and not hated by my fellow employees... Personally I hate the markups... I could have probably sold our entire incoming inventory had there NOT been a markup... but that's not for me to decide... I'm just a salesman... a hopefully still employed come Monday salesman at that... Here is the link to the post on FreshAlloy.com. Yes it is me... Fresh Alloy PostPeace,"
KaZ

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 10:07 PM

Yes I am one in the same person. I wanted to post subjective information earlier without tainting the converstation. I did make the above post on a board I frequent as I knew some of the members frequented here and I didn't want a negative spin being posted on that forum after someone had seen it here, so I posted what had happened and what was already common knowledge on this forum and even linked that post here. A number of the replies to this post were from fellow members on that forum who know me personally and were trying to help me save face, and back up the statements I'd made; that they were honest and truthful.

For some background, I have only been a salesman 3 weeks and its my first attempt (I was hired 9/11/02, and hopefully I'll still be employed into the forseeable future). I graduated college with a Computer Science degree back in May '01 and was employed in the Telecom Industry briefly for a year by Sprint until I was laid of this past May in a third round of layoffs due to budget restrictions... My family and I (wife and now 13 month old son) were living solely off unemployment from May until recently and we even had to unfortunately move home with my parents as I could no longer afford to support my family and pay rent where we were previously living... After a few weeks being the in area, I happened to see an ad for a Salesman at the local Infiniti Dealership and I was able to talk my way into a position and was given a chance as a Salesman for Infiniti.

I personally used to despise Car Salesmen as I thought they were all 2 bit liars... which is truly not the case; at least with the people I have met so far... I always try and be as honest as possible with my customers... so much so that I've lost a few potential people from being too honest... showing them better deals and/or pointing them elsewhere (Lysle Infiniti for example). I know this isn't the best way to sell cars, but I personally don't like being a dishonest person. The day I commit a dishonest act, is the day I quit selling cars.

As far as what I said to Mr. Howard, I'll try and explain below:

I was going on what I knew and thought I was allowed to say, and have since be repremanded as I should be and was informed what I was allowed and not allowed to say and do... I wish I had been told prior to all of this, but alas... I have no idea of the repricusions(sp?) of this chain of events, but hopefully I will be able to keep my job as a lowly salesman selling these fine Automobiles.

I'm sorry you felt you had to email this directly to Infiniti, as it was/is not looked upon favorably. What was said was said, and I can't take it back since you so politely posted it for the world to see... I've been since informed of the errors of my ways and told to leave pricing to my superiors. This email went straight to the top of Infiniti and I am unfortunately rather well known because of this incident. I eventually wanted to make a name for myself at Infiniti, but I did not have the desire to do so in such fashion. Thank you Mr. Howard for that.

When you had emailed requesting pricing information, you had informed me of other pricing numbers from various other dealerships you had spoken with in your local area and I *mistakenly* thought there was nothing wrong with stating what I was told about our pricing. I was trying, as I'd stated, to tell you honestly and sincerely what I knew; that I did indeed have an incoming vehicle that matched your preferences, but that you would probably not like the pricing as you were already disappointed with what you had found locally... $895 over invoice at Charlotte Infiniti, I believe you had told me. And that was the way I probably should have said it and left it at that. Or to be quite honest, I never should have replied to your email at all, and forwarded it up to my superiors.

Now in reference to everyones screaming about the price... This type of stuff has been going on for a while in the industry and probably won't stop any time soon. As some of the members have mentioned MSRP stands for MANUFACTURER SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICING. Which is exactly what it is... suggested. Actual pricing will reflect what the market will bear... its common sense. I'm sorry you were outraged by what I had stated, but its not like I was solicating business from you, you had emailed the dealership where I am currently employed and I kindly and sincerely replied. As you've stated, its something Infiniti does not look approvingly upon and has since taken the necessary measures. Hopefully I'll keep my job, but since you have a continued desire to make a scapegoat out of me, that may not be possible... only time will tell.

I would however, like to publically apologize to Infiniti, my dealership, and my manager for this entire debacle(sp?) I would also like to apologize to Mr. Howard, to whom I was being sincere and honest, but I guess that doesn't account for much in today's day and age. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

KaZ

**DONOTDELETE**

09-27-2002, 10:22 PM

Who IS pricing G35 Coupes at or UNDER MSRP so that I will now CORRECTLY know as I was misinformed to begin with? I know so far...

Lysle Infiniti
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?

KaZ

Wulfy

09-27-2002, 10:31 PM

Well, I truely hope that if anyone takes a hit from Infiniti that it will be the GM. Salesmen do not set prices but they do set a preliminary tone for the customer's dealer experience. It is very easy to end up in an advisarial situation when the customer is dealing with someone that has no control over the policies of a dealership. This is especially true when someone is already agitated from an already strained dealer experience. On a side note. Text is a very bad place to gauge emotions, intent, honesty, etc. I hope this all works out for the parties involved but not responsible. Personally I would tell the first person that advised me of an unexpected dealer mark-up to go Eff' themselves. Understanding that the GM or the Owner or group of consolidated owners make up the prices, I would try to reserve the A$$ chewing for the responsible parties. In a situation like this, It might be best to let things Lie and call "by gones". I really hope all works out for the best and that you do not lose your job at the dealer. Don't let this warp your ability to be honest is you can help it KaZ and anyone wanting to purchase a coupe at MSRP should just skip the dealers that are playing a different game.

Not trying to preach by the way but I just feel this is not solving anything and seems to be inflaming an already sore subject.

6MT Brilliant Silver, Graphite, Premium, Bose, Nav, Aero, XM .. first on list in Raleigh, NC (at MSRP)

**DONOTDELETE**

09-28-2002, 12:50 AM

but your intellect level is too damn low
<blockquote><hr />
If this salesman is so honest why did he say all East Coast delaers are marking up the coupe $5000???

[/QUOTE]
last i recall you pasted that he said "As far as I've been told," in other words, TO HIS KNOWLEDGE that this is what's going on. Did he say anything like "I KNOW THIS AS A FACT, DONT EVEN BOTHER ASKING AROUND"? didn't think so.

for example, you've probably been told that britney's breast are fake. And you go spread it around, does that make you a liar? No, you're merely spreading what you think is true.

now if I'm to lie to you and jack up the price, i wouldn't SINCERELY INFORM you about the mark up like he did, forget that~
I'll just straight up tell you everybody's charging that price and that's MSRP, knowing that if you knew you wouldn't have asked.

so he informed you,
and he helped you,
and he saved you a trip to head to his dealership,
and he told you what he knew,
and he was honest

what he gets in return?

your ingrateful action of stabbing his back and possibly causing his job.

you fit the term 'jerk' quite right http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif

JonCarson

09-28-2002, 01:23 AM

Leave the name calling to children on the playground.

We are (I assume) all adults here. Disagree if you want, but do so in a mature manner or I will close this thread and "moderate" any member (new or old) that I feel isn't complying with our forum rules.

Thank you all for understanding.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-28-2002, 01:25 AM

Look, this is getting a bit out of hand everyone. Let me make it quite simple so as to *attempt* so stop the misinformation and bickering.

1) Those of you who think you are quite smart in pointing out that a lot of the posters coming up are new, give it up. Yes, this stuff spread like wildfire and it has been seen on at least 2 other forums as of right now. Yes, some people who have posted know Kaz from another forum but that should stand to show that he IS a stand up guy rather than count against him. Such jaded people nowadays. Personally, I've been here longer than 95% of you and in fact my original account was registered before ANY of you. Does it matter? NO.

2) When he sent that email it was with the GREATEST of intentions. Can any of you really sit behind your keyboards, read the ORIGINAL email and think this guy was being a slimey ahole? Are you REALLY that dense? As for lying, that's moronic. He only stated what he had heard about one other dealership...why on EARTH would he lie when the point of his email was to tell him to go elsewhere. Had he said "very few dealers offer MSRP so you should get it from us" then I could understand. But he did nothing of the sort. God I hate it when people have to DIG to find a reason to complain.

3) Who to be mad at? You should be mad at the people who pay these rediculous prices. It's quite simply supply and demand. Sure, you don't want to hear that...and in fact I agree that it is a shame. That being said, almost anyone who spends more than a DAY searching online and calling around can find one for MSRP! Jesus people, when you're about to spend $30K+ on a car, do some RESEARCH. If you'd rather pay $5K over sticker than spend $200 on a plane fare and drive the car back, then you deserve it. I was amazed at how many people willingly paid $4K over sticker on my 350Z forum when a dealer within 50 miles had it for MSRP.

4) Even if you can't subscribe to the fact that it's the people who are first to blame, do realize that the salespeople (even if most ARE slimey) do not set the prices. Also realize that the manufacturer can NOT do anything to curb it. They can try (Nissan released pricing on the 350Z a year in advance to make it less likely for markups), but they can not FORCE a dealer to stay at MSRP. What that means is that reporting it to Infiniti does VERY little. And if you do, go for it...more power to you but leave individual people OUT of it. In this case it did damage only to the salesman because he was a bit too forthcoming on the details of how much over the car was. He made a mistake and knows it now...but to be raked over the coals was a shame. Am I blasting the original poster? No...I just think at the very LEAST you cynics should realize there was NO malicious intent and drop it. The damage is done and at the end of the day only one guy has to suffer for trying to be a nice guy.

Have a problem with any of this? Email me and I'll be GLAD to respond. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

http://www.zheaven.com/tracer350sig.jpg

2001_S15

09-28-2002, 02:34 AM

<blockquote><hr />
Yes, some people who have posted know Kaz from another forum but that should stand to show that he IS a stand up guy rather than count against him.

[/QUOTE]

That may be, but I don't think it's appropriate for salespeople to identify clients in public. Salespeople and other Infiniti employees would do well to remember that they are representing their company when online, at least when they are describing work related matters.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-28-2002, 03:30 AM

If history is any guide, by April/May 2003 time frame, the Infiniti dealerships will be going out of business due to the double dip recession and cars will be available at Invoice price and they will be begging for a buyer. The same thing happened when the 300ZX was first introduced for sale at $5,000 over MRSP in 1990. By 1991, car sales were in a recession and I got my 300ZX at invoice plus some options free. I later found out that the dealership filed for bankruptcy. The lesson in all this is to give the buyer a fair shake when one can or when the sales melt away, go under.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-28-2002, 03:42 AM

__________________________________________________ _________

That may be, but I don't think it's appropriate for salespeople to identify clients in public. Salespeople and other Infiniti employees would do well to remember that they are representing their company when online, at least when they are describing work related matters.

__________________________________________________ __________

Um, perhaps I missed something but did Mr. Howard not identify himself first with his own last name and bring the salesman into the spotlight first by posting all of his pertinent information? On top of that, I don't see at all where Jonathan brought any of the client's personal info that he hadn't already let out into the light. Are we even reading the same thread here? Can you quote something specific because I'm not reading through 1,500 more lines in case I missed the tiniest part of a post...

People are reaching at straws here...

2001_S15

09-28-2002, 06:07 AM

<blockquote><hr />
Um, perhaps I missed something but did Mr. Howard not identify himself first with his own last name and bring the salesman into the spotlight first by posting all of his pertinent information?

[/QUOTE]

What a BlueG35C says is irrelevant - he doesn't represent a corporation, only himself.

Mr Casimir's dealership is free to charge what it likes for its vehicles, and people are free not to buy them. If "market value adjustments" were really the policy set by the dealer's manager, and not the salesperson, does anyone really believe that the salesperson could receive any sort of serious reprimand as a result? This was, at worst, a minor issue.

But now the *perception* is that the salesperson has caused a horde of supporters to come out of the woodwork and flame a potential customer. This is far more serious. Are we to expect this every time someone gets irritated by a dealership and posts here about it? I hope not.

This is not reaching at straws. Conducting oneself professionally when speaking on work matters is part of the standards of conduct expected of the employees of most companies and trades.

I can only assume it's Mr Casimir's short time in this job that led to this unfortunate situation. My advice to him is that it's probably best to avoid discussing customers on the internet - that way this whole situation would have remained a non-concern.

ROOK

09-28-2002, 06:24 AM

Moderators- Move to Off-Topic or Dealer Experiences.

This isn't really about the G35.

**DONOTDELETE**

09-28-2002, 11:45 AM

For those who wish to avoid paying a "market adjustment" on a G35 Coupe...

Infiniti of Willow Grove-- Willow Grove, PA has G35 coupes available on order for MSRP with no market adjustment. Call sales manager for information on available G35 coupes or visit the dealership website.

cheerioboy26

09-28-2002, 12:38 PM

I haven't personally verified it (since I have a sedan), but I believe it has been mentioned on this BBS that Coleman in MD is also selling the coupe at MSRP. I think opimax has ordered one....

Blug35c

09-29-2002, 09:27 AM

The same way I feel about the greedy peole at Enron screwing their employees and the public. If you are going to be greedy be prepared to take the flack. Lets be honest this salesman is either exremely slow or just doesn't get $5k over MSRP!!

**DONOTDELETE**

10-01-2002, 12:31 PM

Amen to that. Screwing over the customer is bad for business. Taking advantage of a situtation to screw over customer is even worse. Remember the power companies screwing over the California public two years ago? I remember the first Infiniti dealership i visted, they told me they didn't sell their cars below MSRP. Needless to say, they didn't get my business nor will they ever get my business. Dealers frequently try to screw over customers to pay above MSRP especially first time buyers. Dealers lie all the time. My friend who leased IS300 was told by the dealer that he could only get his oil changed at that dealership and they charged him over $100 per oil change. By federal law you can take your car to any place you want but they lied to him. A fellow employee leased a BMW325, they wouldn't even let him test drive one. Only defense against dishonest dealers not to business to them. I checked this forum before i purchased by G. Selling over MSRP is something I consider dishonest. Requiring Paint protection or the etching the VIN number to windows is dishonest. Paint protection is just a coat of sealant that person can do themselves for $20. VIN number etched to window is worthless since the VIN number is visible through the windshield. Paying an Advertisement fee is dishonest since the cost is already figured into the MSRP and is way to gouge more money out of the customer. </RANT>

limits_at_infiniti

10-01-2002, 07:37 PM

believe it or not some people will by the car for over 5000 msrp.

these inftiniti managers are so greedy

dfw_danny

10-26-2002, 01:46 PM

As an Infiniti General Manager I have to say that I believe selling any of our products over MSRP is not in the best interest of the delearship over the long term. Short sighted people make make stupid decisions that will have long lasting negative impact on their business. But this is not just limited to the automobile industry, it is pervasive in all businesses. Whether the comments supporting the dealership are damage control initiated by the dealer I obviously cannot say but I do believe that any and all comments need to be directed at the dealer and not the salesman. Unfortunately he is caught between a rock and a hard place. I will say that most dealerships in the US are holding the line at MSRP and this price gouging seems to be limited, for the most part, to the west coast. In my opinion the dealer is making a fatal mistake...the buying public has a very long memory.

M_TYPE_X

11-09-2002, 10:09 AM

From what I understand, this whole mess is very educational.

Nissan-Infiniti is getting a ton of new product now and it's having a wet dreams effect. They can't handle it... so there goes the speculation and all. Too bad they didn't carry over the 350Z sales policy over to the G35 Coupe.

Wait and as said above, a year later prices stand a good chance of plumetting like a rock. Unless you have to scream and have the latest toy now, it's really best to wait.

Is it just me or are new cars overpriced wildly these days to begin with? Big Three have to dump incentives to sell them though to stimulate demand whereas Toyota/Honda/Nissan can sell for pretty decent prices without begging.

I doubt that dealer tactics are so wild in Detroit even with the restricted supply. The craziness is confined to the coasts for the most part, I'd say. Not unusual there! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

M Type X

MO2Go

11-28-2002, 06:37 AM

Market adjustments are solely perpetrated by greedy dealers and sales people. I thought all this mark-up business died in the 80's! Nissan Corp does not make anymore money if the dealers sell it at 5K over MSRP. In fact, they may lose money since price gouging may put off would be buyers. Nissan just want to move cars. Dealers want to drain the buyers of whatever they are willing to give up.

I am a Sacramento resident and know that there is only 1 dealer in town and they sell the coupes at 2k over MSRP. This just goes to show that the sales person wasn't exactly honest in saying there was only 1 dealer he knows of that sells cars at MSRP. Sacramento Infiniti? Lies, Lies, Lies!

I just had to get that out since I can not stand the bold face lies these sales people are spewing. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif

CuriousG

11-28-2002, 03:23 PM

<blockquote><hr />
I do have a vehicle similar to that one incoming, however we have a $5000 Market Adjustment on the vehicle on top of MSRP. If this is less than your local dealer and you would like some more information, please feel free to give me a ring. As far as I've been told, all the dealerships in the east coast region have the same Market Adjustment. The only dealership I have heard of that is selling them at MSRP is a large volume dealership in Sacramento, CA.

[/QUOTE]
I guess this goes specifically to KaZ. I have purchased my Coupe from Sacramento Infiniti. So unless they have changed their policy from 2 weeks ago (which is unlikely the case with the recent MotorTrend article) they are telling people over the phone when you inquire about the Coupe that there is a $2K markup on the car.

I didn't preorder my car and just happened to call them on a whim because I didn't want to deal with $2K over MSRP when I first inquired about it and in fact was ready to purchase the car out of town at MSRP and an automatic because I didn't want to wait for the 6MT on order. It wasn't very hard to convince the sales manager to say they will sell at MSRP however when I voiced my displeasure on the phone. In fact, they will even tell you that if you have purchased a previous Infiniti that they will sell you the Coupe at MSRP. Still not much of a bargain but still goes to show that it didn't take much effort to talk them into MSRP.

When I did call 4 other dealers within 150 mile radius through the Infiniti search for dealer website, they all told me they sold at MSRP. In fact one dealer, Frontier Infiniti (biggest dealer in California) said there were other dealers in California that sold at $4K over MSRP. I can't remember which dealer he mentioned but that certainly wasn't the case when I took the time to call other dealers.

My gripe with Frontier Infiniti was that the salesman (Raj) I dealt with was courtious up to the point where I purchased the car elsewhere. It came down to my word versus his as they had charged up $2K deposit on my credit card and I never authorized that amount thinking it was $300. This wouldn't have been a problem except when I purchased my car Saturday, the dealer tried to charge $2500 as the down payment and it didn't go through. Luckily they just took $1,000 on the card and let me drive home. Aside from the embarassment, I felt betrayed since I was either lied to or that salesman was a newbie. Anyway, I argued with the salesman and it got a little ugly but he never owned up to it even though I had some proof. It pissed me off when that happened that I spoke with the sales manager there and he just listened to me gripe about the situation. My consolation? A handwritten card from Frontier Infiniti saying "Sorry for the misunderstanding".

Mark F

11-29-2002, 12:25 PM

Retailers (dealers) are free to charge whatever price the market will bare. That is why it is called a Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. If the market will bare more than MSRP, then there is no reason why the retailer should not take advantage of that opportunity. It doesn't happen very often. It also tends to make up for the 90% of the rest of time when they are whoring out cars for nothing.

No customers are being screwed here. Don't want to pay over MSRP, then don't buy the car. Nuff said. If you want the car and feel the extra charge is worth what you are getting then pay it and be happy.

Also, if your salesperson says they "only knew of one dealer charing MSRP" how do you draw the conclusion he was lying? Isn't that a bit unfair? After all, even if there was more than one dealership charging MSRP, that does not mean this particular salesperson was aware of it. Pricing policies can and do change daily.

MO2Go

11-29-2002, 10:44 PM

I whole heartedly agree that dealers can charge whatever they feel the market will bare. It is also obvious that any amount over MSRP is not appreciated by the consumer. The manufacturer set their MSRP on what they feel is a fair price to the consumer and fair profit to the dealers. The dealers then mark the price up with "market adjustments", dealer add-ons, and protection packages to pad their profits. The consumers do not initially set these prices. They are set by the dealers! The market price will react to the consumers' displeasure. Wouldn't it make better business sense to treat the customers fairly from the beginning. The dealers will make their 3k+ per G35 sold.

"Whoring out cars for nothing?" I highly doubt that there is any truth to this. We all know about hold-backs and such and even if dealers sold cars at invoice, there would still be enough profit to sustain their business. Consumers are not asking dealers to sell at cost. We just want to be treated fairly. This is not a communist state and capitalism still thrive and so does greed.

I understand your bias of siding with the dealer since it is your livelihood, but to take the attitude of if you don't like it, don't buy it is pure ignorance. You are getting feedback from perspective consumers and "what the market will bare" so that dealers can re-evaluate and adjust prices if necessary. Do all dealers have this attitude? Wouldn't this mean that they really don't care what consumer think as long as they are making their large margins?

I concluded that the salesperson was lying because I know what Sacramento Infiniti's sales policy is and it was never at MSRP. They are still trying to sell sedans at 2k over and those are the facts. I am only debating the statement that was given. I have no opinions of any other dealer other than the one I know about.

Mark F

11-30-2002, 07:39 AM

Funny, nobody gripes when "market conditions" have dealers whoring out metal for $100 over invoice. Yet somehow when the market demands higher prices...

I'm still wondering who is not being treated fairly here. If you don't feel the product is worth the price, then don't buy it. This is not an ignorant attitude, its life. Every person makes those kinds of value judgements in their purchasing choices each and every day. Nobody is being cheated here. It's not like the consumer is not aware of what they are paying for. This is not an ignorant attitude. I deal with people making exactly this kind of decision about car purchases 5 days a week. What does display monumental ignorance is your false belief that price is the only thing that matters. In reality, a surprisingly large number of consumers are not particularly price driven. What seems shocking to you may not be an issue for someone else. Quit trying to impose your limited set of values on everyone else. That's ignorance. To you, someone charging above retail for a product is criminal (other businesses get away with it all the time but for some reason only car dealers get hammered for it). For others, dealers charging even retail is criminal. They think we should give away everything for invoice because there is profit in holdback (not really true but lets not argue the point). So which is it?

Personally, I've never sold a vehicle for over MSRP. I work at a store that doesn't charge over MSRP even for hot items like Z's and EVO 8's. I got no problem with that. It's just about worth the bother selling at new car at MSRP. Selling them at $100 over invoice is not. I've done six of those this month and made $600 for my trouble. I'm not sure how I'm paying my mortgage this month.

One last thing. Do you know the definition of lying? Just because someone is wrong does not mean they are lying. How about this. Do you know the definition of stereotyping? It's directly related to ignorance and I think that is exactly what you are doing to this salesman.