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FanaticZ
11-15-2002, 07:43 PM
From Autoweek.

Sources tell us that a high- performance hybrid Acura will arrive as the next RL sport-luxury sedan.
The car’s 200-hp 3.0-liter V6 driving the front wheels gets a torquey 160-hp boost from an electric motor driving the rear wheels. Regenerative braking recharges the battery powering the electric motor.

In concept form, as the 400-hp Acura DN-X sports sedan shown last spring in New York, and as the Honda Dualnote shown earlier in Tokyo, Honda officials claimed 42 mpg. Look for the hybrid RL by 2004.

DN-X concept
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2002/new_york/acura.dnx.sedanconcept.500.jpg
Exotic performance cars, while certainly desirable, are usually associated with extremely poor fuel economy. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, the Lamborghini Murcielago has the worst fuel economy for all 2002 cars and trucks, earning a 9/13 mpg city/highway rating. The Ferrari 360 Modena isn't much better with an 11/16 rating. Fortunately, one likely isn't worried about the cost of filling up a tank when spending more than $150,000 on a car.

But do high performance and high fuel economy have to be mutually exclusive? Honda doesn't think so. At the 2001 Tokyo Motor Show, the company unveiled its DualNote concept car. This four-door, four-passenger vehicle produces 400 horsepower. The kicker? It also gets more than 40 miles to the gallon.

This amazing feat is possible thanks to a hybrid gasoline/electric powertrain. The basic concept is similar to that found in the 2002 Honda Civic Hybrid and the pioneering Honda Insight. The DualNote is equipped with a mid-mounted 3.5-liter i-VTEC V6 engine with electric Integrated Motor Assist (IMA). IMA blends the engine and electric motor's power to maximize efficiency and fuel economy. Of even more interest, there are two additional electric motors that power the front wheels.

From a stop, only the electric motors drive the front wheels to motivate the car. Should livelier acceleration be needed, the motors work in concert with the gasoline engine that, in turn, powers the rear wheels. During cornering, the motors and the engine are governed by computer to ensure optimum front-to-rear power distribution. In addition, Honda has equipped the DualNote with its Automatic Torque Transfer System (ATTS) and Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA). ATTS applies extra torque to the outside wheels during cornering, resulting in extra stability. VSA is a stability system that helps to minimize the chance of dangerous skids and spins.

All of this hardware is wrapped up in an advanced aluminum composite body measuring 172.8 inches in length. It features an integrated front spoiler for improved aerodynamics and an active suspension. The windows' opaqueness can be adjusted to vary the amount of infrared and ultraviolet light allowed into the cabin.

Inside, the DualNote features four race-type seats and an advanced cockpit that looks like the modern version of Knight Rider's KITT. The collection of display screens and gauges are used to show advanced features like navigation, Internet access and the views from the front-and-rear night-vision CCD cameras.

While we don't expect the DualNote to ever become any more real than KITT, some of its specific technologies might indicate Honda's future plans. For instance, the 3.5-liter V6 IMA system could quite possibly show up, sans 4WD, on Honda's Odyssey minivan.

A 400-hp 4WD supercar getting 40 mpg would be nice, but we'll certainly take a real-world 40-mpg minivan any day.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/news/concept.car/honda.dualnote/honda.dualnote.f3-4.500.jpg http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/news/concept.car/honda.dualnote/honda.dualnote.int.500.jpg

Nismo
11-19-2002, 09:03 AM
The new RL is one to watch. It may end up using a 3.2 or 3.5 liter engine, though, as opposed to the 3.0 liter reported by Autoweek. A while ago there were some management fights over whether or not to put a V8 in the next RL or mate a V6 with IMA. I was rooting for the V6 w/IMA and it's looking like that's the way it's going to be. It should be another feather in Honda's cap because while anyone can put a big V8 in a car, no one has been able to spell performance AND efficiency like Honda's powerplants.

Contrary to popular belief, people don't care about V6, V8, etc. What they do care about is having plenty of "oomph" when they mash the gas pedal. In the past, people have been led to believe that the only way you can get "oomph" in a car is with a bigger engine. IMA will eventually turn these people around.

M_TYPE_X
11-19-2002, 05:52 PM
Nobody knows what Honda-Acura plans yet. Who knows, maybe the next RL will be a luxo-Element... or a rebadged Isuzu... or a Acura EL with a different letter before the "L". Or it could be a rocket ship with twin turbo boost, Italian wood-grain trim with the slopes of Sicily, and a flux capacitor.

With Honda, you never know. And that's not really too much of a problem, because they usually don't do anything too weird. The DNX is so not the next RL, but it might replace the NSX.

M Type X

Gauis_Caligula
11-19-2002, 07:25 PM
http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/sprachlos/sprachlos034.gif

TroopaFanatic
11-19-2002, 09:31 PM
The DNX might have been the next NSX except the DNX is a 4 door sport sedan. The NSX is a 2 door exotic coupe.

M_TYPE_X
11-20-2002, 09:52 AM
Yes, but nothing says that Acura won't replace the NSX with something like the DNX. Mazda took out the RX-7 and gave us their "four door" rotary sports car, the RX-8, in its place.

Two-door market is dead... Honda was last to pull out of the general sport coupe market with the Prelude, and now it may be the NSX's turn. No one knows what they plan for 2004... maybe dropping the CL, maybe dropping the NSX too. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

M Type X

TroopaFanatic
11-20-2002, 10:12 AM
True, but as Japan's supercar, and with Toyota's upcoming 5000GT 2-door, I don't think Honda would take the NSX in that radical a direction.

I also don't see why the DNX couldn't be the basis for the next RL. The RL is just the latest generation Legend, and the Legend started out as a four door sport sedan. The DNX is a four door sport sedan. I don't think for a second that the DNX styling will be part of the next RL (unfortunately) but the DNX concept could be what Honda wants to do to the RL.

M_TYPE_X
11-20-2002, 03:40 PM
Agreed - they won't do the radical styling, but they will incorporate some of the technologies into the new model.

Note that the above statement is so broad and general and automatically applies if you're talking about any new Honda.

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif M Type X http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

TroopaFanatic
11-20-2002, 09:31 PM
All I was challenging is your statement that "the DNX is so not the next RL". I just want to know why. If the next RL incorporates an AWD hybrid system with a high output electric motor powering the rear wheels and a uplevel V6 up front, wouldn't that essentially be the DNX?

M_TYPE_X
11-21-2002, 05:33 AM
Post should have read "DNX styling". The mechanicals on the DNX might go in either the new RL or new NSX. The styling could be seen in parts on the next NSX quite possibly.

M Type X

Nismo
11-21-2002, 08:25 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small[/img]In reply to:</font><hr />
TroopaFanatic: I don't think for a second that the DNX styling will be part of the next RL (unfortunately) but the DNX concept could be what Honda wants to do to the RL.

[/QUOTE]Change "could be" to "is" and you've got it--at least if AutoWeek is correct.

Here's the link: Acura reportedly developing high-performance hybrid RL for U.S. (http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&amp;cat_code=carnews &amp;loc_code=index&amp;content_code=08879599)

hiwayman17
11-21-2002, 10:41 AM
The husband and wife team who write auto reviews for Gannett newspapers said the M45 was only suited to be a Japanese taxi.

FanaticZ
11-21-2002, 01:16 PM
the article clearly states their sources are hinting at a hybrid gas/electric awd rl just as showcased in the dnx concept. theres nothing hard to grasp here, simply autoweek spilling what they've heard.

the rx8 isn't the replacement for the rx-7, just an adition to mazdas lineup. theres no room for a new prelude with the rsx typeS and accord 6-speed, the 2-door market is hardly dead. for overpriced and underpowered coupes it might be.

M_TYPE_X
11-21-2002, 09:48 PM
We could argue "overpriced and underpowered" here as much as you want, but it would apply more to the S14 240SX than to the 5th-gen Prelude.

Agreed generally that Honda understands 2-door cars. Accord, Civic, S2000, CL, RSX, NSX... that's a lot of 2-doors. However the Prelude will be missed... should get myself a vintage 1980s or 1990s model some day. The good old days.

Not sure where Honda is going these days. NSX replacement may be a DNX-type car or not; personally, I don't see how you could make the NSX styling better. Dumping the Prelude and bringing the Element to market is like kicking me off the showroom floor and then trying extra hard to give me a reason never to show up again. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif

Where I am, there are a good number of RLs. I see them more often than Lexus LS models and Infiniti Q45s.
It is a luxury sedan, not a luxury sport sedan or sport luxury sedan or any of that... and it's not "overfangled fancy doodad luxury" either. The RL sells quite well.

Yes, I do like the pre-1996 Legend more. Same goes for the Integra, when they changed the name to RSX they also fiddled with the Integra formula a bit. http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

M Type X

FanaticZ
11-22-2002, 02:46 PM
yea the rl is just a regular sedan but it would only make sense that acuras most expensive sedan wasn't out powered by its cheapest sedan. with the redesign of the tl next fall and most likely 280hp, it would only make sense that an rl typeS would have an engine with 300hp+ considering how well the S models have worked for the rsx and tl.

M_TYPE_X
11-22-2002, 07:18 PM
Won't disagree on that. Remember that the RL engine doesn't even have VTEC which is standard on all the other models now (source: acura.com) ... hey, it's been a while since the RL was updated significantly.

The new Accord has upped the standards... TL and RL will follow for 2004, along with Maxima... ahhhhh! http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif M Type X http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif