SAE's Car Quality Numbers

[NISSANSPDR]

http://mysite.verizon.net/romano.michael/QualityGap.JPG

Scanned from Society of Automotive Engineers...


Well...seems like Mazda is not as great as SOME ppl think...

Go Infiniti...making 3rd place...Nissan doing a fair job at around the Industry Average

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Irie_eyes]

wow. Same with GM. Buick is way way up there.
Then again, Saab and Saturn are way way down there.
Hyundais whooping ass. Look at the gap Lexus has.

Of course, someone's going to biatch about these surveys. Hey, it's not the law of the land. Don't throw a hissy fit over it.

[M_TYPE_X]

Lincolns aren't as good as Fords, but Mercurys are much better than both? Makes no sense. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Of course, someone's going to biatch about these surveys. Hey, it's not the law of the land. Don't throw a hissy fit over it.




And thats where I come in. I don't like this survey. There's no control in it. You're basing the results solely on the customer survey. They should do a survey of their own. Contact dealers and get info from them without letting the corporate office know. I just think there's a better way to do it. My problem lies solely with the testing methods.

I feel the same about JDPower as I do about Consumer Reports. People always quote consumer reports to me and I ask them who had the largest advertisement in that issue. Almost always (depending on the importance of the test) it will correspond with a company in the top 2-5 depending on the number of products tested. No, they're not biased.

[FanaticZ]

these reports really are bs, like hummer for example. last because people are complaining about the fuel mileage being bad. jdpowers should publish the 2003 average car buyer intelligence report to accompany the initial quality findings.

i'd love to see the actual complaint list for all cars, 'air conditioning too cold', 'radio stations must be programmed', 'seat belts are manual buckle', 'key scratches paint when i miss keyhole at night'.

even though nissan falls below gm in initial quality- which is important having the car 100% off the dealer lot, i think its fair to say in 6 years gm will fall below nissan for long term dependability. think gm even admitted this in an article about them closing the gap in initial quality but lagging way behind the older the cars get.

[M_TYPE_X]

these reports really are bs, like hummer for example. last because people are complaining about the fuel mileage being bad. jdpowers should publish the 2003 average car buyer intelligence report to accompany the initial quality findings.

i'd love to see the actual complaint list for all cars, 'air conditioning too cold', 'radio stations must be programmed', 'seat belts are manual buckle', 'key scratches paint when i miss keyhole at night'.

even though nissan falls below gm in initial quality- which is important having the car 100% off the dealer lot, i think its fair to say in 6 years gm will fall below nissan for long term dependability. think gm even admitted this in an article about them closing the gap in initial quality but lagging way behind the older the cars get.



What you said! Low longer-term quality for GM, and ... customer intelligence survey? hahaha http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Republic]

"The study reveals that vehicles built by German and Japanese manufacturers in their native markets record higher average initial quality overall than those built in their North American plants. Vehicles produced in Germany by BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen, as well as those produced in Japan by Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota, demonstrated overall higher initial quality than the vehicles built at their North American plants. There are exceptions, such as vehicles produced by Acura, Mazda, and Subaru at their North American plants..."

Unfortunate if this is so. For those interested in Nissan but didn't click on the link, Nissan averaged 139 PP100, below the industry average by six.

[FanaticZ]

they sure make it sound like a lot don't they? so nissan has an average of 1.39 problems per car, but toyota way way up the list has 1.21 problems per car. hmmm, i don't know, if i owned a toyota would i be able to find that .18th of a problem. thats like i dropped a quarter between the seat at the toll booth and my fingers won't fit to get it out kinda problem.

[pudicus]

Mercury-an atrocity manufactured by Ford-is less trouble prone than Nissan ? WTF is that ? Cadillac is reliable http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif Can anybody say-Catera ? Lincoln more reliable than Subaru ? Yeah, and Michael Jackson is a father. The only thing this " survey " got right is that Saab and Land Rover are money pits. Anybody who wants to check on the auto reliability should skip such bogus surveys as well as car rags, and instead read actual owner reports on carreview.com and edumnds.com, to name a few.

[Afty]

I feel the same about JDPower as I do about Consumer Reports. People always quote consumer reports to me and I ask them who had the largest advertisement in that issue. Almost always (depending on the importance of the test) it will correspond with a company in the top 2-5 depending on the number of products tested. No, they're not biased.


Um, Consumer Reports does not accept advertising. There are no ads at all in the magazine. It is supported entirely by the subscription cost.

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Not anymore. They advertise now.

[Nismo]

People always quote consumer reports to me and I ask them who had the largest advertisement in that issue. Almost always (depending on the importance of the test) it will correspond with a company in the top 2-5 depending on the number of products tested. No, they're not biased.

Consumer Reports is absolutely not biased.

(1) Consumer Reports has never accepted any advertising.

(2) When CR wants to review a particular vehicle, it never accepts a test vehicle from the manufacturer the way every major U.S. car magazine does. Instead, CR buys all of their new test vehicles anonymously. It costs them a substantial amount of money, but its the only way to be sure that the vehicle tested is the same as what you or I could buy, as opposed to a vehicle that may or may not have received special treatment from the manufacturer.

(3) One last point. CR's reliability data comes from their annual survey of subscribers. For the last few years, they have received approximately 1/2 million completed surveys a year on which they base their reliability data. The survey asks multiple questions regarding specific problems, not the overly general "have you had any problem" question that J.D. Powers and others like to use. Not only do the questions require more thought, but the results help consumers decide if the type of problems a vehicle is prone to having are something they should be worried about or not (i.e.--engine and transmission problems are weighted heavier than exterior trim problems).

[Afty]

Not anymore. They advertise now.


BS. From their website:
"We accept no advertising and buy all the products we test on the open market. We are not beholden to any commercial interest. Our income is derived from the sale of CONSUMER REPORTS and other publications and information services, and from nonrestrictive, noncommercial contributions, grants, and fees."
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv2.jsp?CONTENT<>cnt_id=2163&FOLDER<>folder_i d=2159&bmUID=1056548149198

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Really?! They said that on their own website? I guess they're serious. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif Yes, I saw that. It doesn't mean they don't take cash from manufacturers.

[squid]

I'm not sure about taking cash from manufacturers, but they do have to keep subscriptions up. That means creating headlines with controversy. You know, the same as shows like '60 Minutes' and '20/20' do to get you to watch. They have to occasionally create hype which means spin.

[Afty]

It doesn't mean they don't take cash from manufacturers.


http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif